Newbie Mafia 12 FMP Fumoffu!: Game over!

[JTB]

If Ranmaru is not the play of the Day, then I'll look into AA. I don't have a read on him off the top of my head, but as of right now, I rather see Soren gone if he's not going to do anything.

 

[th3kuzinator]

@Seikend: I explained to Fynal already that it was mostly meta and typical Ranmaru play that convinced me. I don't really want to have to quote everything and make a case why he's not scum as that's fairly counter-productive.

@JTB: Please do. What about UTD, why is he not in the same boat as Soren?

 

[JTB]

I don't believe UTD has posted that he intends to just coast throughout the game and just go with whomever town finds scummy, he just hasn't posted at all.

 

[th3kuzinator]

@Seik: Most of your reasoning for wanting Ranmaru dead is his stubbornness for not seeing why you voted Fynal and for being outright stubborn D1. In your eyes this could be thought of as a scummy push but that's something Ranmaru is known for and its not a scum-tell indicator persay. If you want to re-state your points about why Ran is scum I could tell you why they are incorrect, I could do that.

 

[Seikend]

Link me to a game of Ran's that you think accurately represents how he plays as town and one that represents how he plays as scum.

I know your read is based on meta and that's fine, but that's a hard thing to convince me of when I have no Ran meta of my own. As I said, I'll read other games. I'm willing to listen to you Kuz, but not when you give me nothing to work with.

 

[th3kuzinator]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=299020

He's only been scum once before, which was in newbie 10.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=292894

 

[adumbrodeus]

Votecount 3:

Ranmaru [3] - X1-12, JTB, Seikend,
TheBlueSpot [0] -
Fynal [0] -
UTDZac [0] -
Blacknight99923 (Soren) [0] -
X1-12 [0] -
th3kuzinator [0] -
JTB [0] -
Seikend [4] - th3kuzinator, Fynal, Soupamario, TheBlueSpot,
Soupamario [0] -
asianaussie [0] -

Not Voting: Blacknight99923 (Soren), UTDZac, Ranmaru, Seikend, asianaussie


With 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch.


A deadline has been set for May 2nd at 0400 hours.


Remember do not abbreviate usernames or and why I noted Soren's nickname his username is required for a legal vote.

 

[Seikend]

Thanks.

Can't promise I'll get through them super-quickly, but I should be done well before the deadline approaches.

 

[th3kuzinator]

Expecting you to read both of them just for metas sake is ridiculous.

Its mainly the stubbornness about doing anything vocal players tell him to do. For example, Ryker kept telling him to play a certain way in BiM 4 and he simply plowed through all that with a resounding "no," and continued to do what he wanted.

In newbie 10 he largely accepted or at least agreed with what the ICs told him to do and largely played off being on of their puppets which largely stabbed them (the ICs in the back towards the end). Note that this should not be good meta to base his scum game off because it was a newbie and he was likely to play completely differently than how he does now.

Still, Ran has been playing so much like town Ran that I really can't see him being scum.

 

[th3kuzinator]

Unvote; Vote: asianaussie

 

[Seikend]

'kay, took a lot less time than I thought it would. I'm with you Kuz. His town and scum play were entirely different. This looks like town Ran.

Unvote
Vote:asianaussie

 

[Fynal]

I am asking you. Does it line up with what you can see, considering AA is your second pick?

Ran's play toDay is less scummy than yesterDay. Quite sure of that. I am not convinced he's town, I don't have his meta (will read later if i ever get the time...sigh). Content to observe his play today though instead of questioning if I can have an aa wagon instead.

unvote
vote: asianaussie

more post coming.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

@MOD i have asianaussie voted, not seikend.

 

[th3kuzinator]

You need to re-vote because you abbreviated.

 

[Fynal]

@aa: Your top scumpick toDay?

 

[th3kuzinator]

@Seikend and Fynal: Who scummier: UTD or Soren?

 

[Seikend]

@Seikend and Fynal: Who scummier: UTD or Soren?

Impossible to tell with UTD's activity

Hang on.

@Mod Does UTD know he's meant to be playing?

Depends on the answer to that question.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Seikend, go back and look at Gatlin's first post.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

and all the other ones.

vote asianaussie

 

[Seikend]

Not sure what you're getting at Soup.

is it the vote?

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

more then that.

 

[Seikend]

Gatlin just looked a little out of his depth to be honest, as in Mafia wasn't what he was expecting. He wasn't really playing at any point. He joined, found he didn't like it, and left.

Gatlin is null for me.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Impossible to tell with UTD's activity

Hang on.

@Mod Does UTD know he's meant to be playing?

Depends on the answer to that question.

Yes, he's traveling across texas right now as far as i know, however since he didn't indicate it to me, he is not exempt from the activity rules and is being prodded as normal (he said it as v/la in a game i was following).

 

[Seikend]

Bleh, not as clear as I thought it would be.

If he's travelling I guess he doesn't have internet access? I don't know for sure but willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

Soren over UTD, Kuz.

 

[X1-12]

been swamped

happy to accept RanTown I guess. Don't like how cryptic kuz was about it at the start but still feel good about him now he's given us some reasoning

AA can die, yeah sure. I'd guess Soren maybe (s)he's just a massive headache. JTB looks kinda opportunistic with his push but idk. AA is the only strong scumread right now.

more when I get the chance.

 

[Fynal]

sorens posted a number of textbook scumtells, self-preservation, go with the lynchflow, etc, but he's so honest about i'm having trouble reading it as scummy. I really don't know.

Why didn't they kill me =(

kuz what do you make of this?

 

[th3kuzinator]

It's hella weird.

 

[Fynal]

my thought exactly. Its half of what he's posted too.

 

[th3kuzinator]

@X1: Final verdict on Seikend?

 

[X1-12]

All my cards will be revealed tonight.

 

[Fynal]

I don't have a read on Soren, that's why I want him to post some stances.

Both Kuz and X1 push for him to do something, and his #1011 is just contentless. I want to pressure him to actually get involved.


I haven't voted Ran because that would put him at L-1.

I haven't voted AA because I'm not very confident in my read. I received some flak in D1 for my reckless voting, so now I'm toning it down until I'm sure.

siek, What changed your mind about aa? what made you "sure"?

 

[Seikend]

My scumpicks were ran and aa.

I believe Ran is town now. Therefore AA is my only scumpick.

I'm not confident on AA but I don't have anything else.

 

[X1-12]

Re-read some. Seikend is scum, kuz is probably his buddy. Don't know about AA. Ran is town because scumkuz would never try that on his scumbud and townkuz would never make such a drastic move unless he was sure he was right.

[collapse=Why is Seikend scum?]If we make note of Seik's stances throughout the game I've only done up to post #500 because I have a life. The people he has called scum or attacked are: Sword, JTB, Fynal, Ran

Seikend's stances are incredibly poor. He starts off attacking Sword for a very weak reason, but then continues that read on for at least half of the Day. His attack on Ran simply comes down to Ranmaru being "iffy" with what he said. His attack on JTB is very poorly founded and very opportunistic. He literally asks TWICE (one, two) for reasons to jump on the wagon - He's begging people to let him wagon-hop, JTB was already L-3 at this point.

Now we've seen Seik being opportunistic and jumpy with his scumreads - fast to accept people as scum. There is also two contradictions in his posts, one is a VERY big deal imo

Contradiction numero uno (aka the small one)

I ask Seikend his scumpicks. He says:

In case you missed it X1.

@X1 Should I re-explain my suspicion of Swords or give my next most scummy player?

Seik basically states that he has a next most scummy player. Or at least that he's thought about who would be the next scummy player. He then goes on to answer it saying "any other scumpick at this point would be reaching honestly". Firstly if he had no other scumpicks, why would he ever need to ask me what I wanted from him, there was only one thing he could give? If he only had one scumpicks, why would he ever ask that question? Secondly, he acts in the first quote as though he HAS other scumpicks, but then goes on to say other scumpicks would be reaching.

Contradiction duo (aka the big one)

#410: Aside from the fact I also find this particularly opportunistic of Seikend to jump on Fynal like that, he later asks Ran, kuz and Sword about it. In that post he specifically states he thinks what Fynal did was scummy. Ran proceeds to answer that its a scumtell (agreeing with Seik) but then in #499 Seikend attacks Ran for being opportunistic in his fynal stance, despite Seikend earlier having the EXACT same stance - Seik states that action X is scummy, but when Ran agrees with him he called Ran opportunistic for it[/collapse]Vote: Seikend[collapse=Why kuz is Seik's partner]

A.) Seik totally avoids mentioning kuz during D1 despite him being one of the most active players - Its common for noobscum to do that. They try to not be connected with their partner in case it incriminates them, but end up over compensating. I've done this and lost scum the game in Bioware and Soul Calibur, BSL did it terribly in Allstars but somehow got away with it. Its like classic noobscum and incredibly damning for kuz should Seik flip scum

B.) After Soup makes a case on Seik. Kuz basically jumps on saying that is what he was thinking, and gently pushes the Seik wagon but never commits to it. You have to read in context from #1081 to understand it. The main thing is kuz appears to be attacking Seik, but if you pay attention he never makes an effort to get people onto the wagon, just questions him in an aggressive manner. Scumkuz trying to not appear connected to Seik

C.) I asked kuz about Seik's meta. They have hydra'd together so I would expect kuz to know it particularly well, yet kuz ignores me. Missing a questions is acceptable sure, but the fact the post before mine he specifically states he is waiting for my post, which he then ignores the question in? This is by far the weakest of the proof of connections but still worth mentioning
[/collapse]
[collapse=So is kuz scummy in his own right?]

Yeah. He is. I really cba to into it now but it comes down to a few things

1.) His defence of Ran.

Yup, its scummy. Not because I think Ran is scum, but because the way he did it was scummy. If a town player thought Ran was town, he'd just push away from Ran, attacking the scumpicks instead. Kuz didn't do that, he made a big charade of specifically defending Ran, making sure everyone saw him do it. I used this exact strategy to win the game as scum in Newbie 11 (Gova would tell you if he hadn't been NK'ed). I cleared Dourin as basically town on D1 (?????Because why would scum ever do that???). Also if he could truly read Ran from meta he'd know it from the start of the game, the "Ran-town-tells" he describes have been exhibited form the start of D1. The fact he is so confident in his Ran read when Ran's been incredibly scummy (he always is) makes me think that kuz has outside information that Ran is town (i.e Ran isn't on kuz's scumteam, ergo is town)

2.) His WIFOM after his defence of Ran

Kuz says "oh yeah as scum why would I distract from an easy mislynch, makes no sense". I've basically touched on this and I already called him out for it. Firstly its stupid WIFOM, and secondly I used this exact line of reasoning to win Mafia Allstars as scum. lol.

3.) Kuz playing up to his IC massively. He's not explaining reads until way after he makes them too

Each read kuz has had he's trying to make people work for him. Aside from the fact that at this stage in the game its completely unnecessary to make people jump through hoops like that. Its just a waste of time. He should just explain his reads and get on with it. I find the way he continues to try to play super IC a scum tell. Townkuz should be just getting down and scumhunting way more. When he directed Night actions at the end of D1 it was reall generic and not in any way useful. Advice dogging.
[/collapse]

omfg I'm tired as hell. Seik wagon go. Lynch kuz the Day after. Dunno who the third scummy is yet.

 

[th3kuzinator]

Bull.

****.

 

[th3kuzinator]

I'm watching a movie with the fam now, Ill respond in a bit.

 

[Seikend]

On mobile so I won't be able to respond to the case.

I'll deal with it in the morning.

 

[X1-12]

kuz so its all BS? What about the seik part? You read it all? Or just flat out calling it BS because it called you scum?

 

[JTB]

X1, is it possible that we can wagon kuz toDay before Seikend?

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Re-read some. Seikend is scum, kuz is probably his buddy. Don't know about AA. Ran is town because scumkuz would never try that on his scumbud and townkuz would never make such a drastic move unless he was sure he was right.

[collapse=Why is Seikend scum?]If we make note of Seik's stances throughout the game I've only done up to post #500 because I have a life. The people he has called scum or attacked are: Sword, JTB, Fynal, Ran

Seikend's stances are incredibly poor. He starts off attacking Sword for a very weak reason, but then continues that read on for at least half of the Day. His attack on Ran simply comes down to Ranmaru being "iffy" with what he said. His attack on JTB is very poorly founded and very opportunistic. He literally asks TWICE (one, two) for reasons to jump on the wagon - He's begging people to let him wagon-hop, JTB was already L-3 at this point.

Now we've seen Seik being opportunistic and jumpy with his scumreads - fast to accept people as scum. There is also two contradictions in his posts, one is a VERY big deal imo

Contradiction numero uno (aka the small one)

I ask Seikend his scumpicks. He says: Seik basically states that he has a next most scummy player. Or at least that he's thought about who would be the next scummy player. He then goes on to answer it saying "any other scumpick at this point would be reaching honestly". Firstly if he had no other scumpicks, why would he ever need to ask me what I wanted from him, there was only one thing he could give? If he only had one scumpicks, why would he ever ask that question? Secondly, he acts in the first quote as though he HAS other scumpicks, but then goes on to say other scumpicks would be reaching.

Contradiction duo (aka the big one)

#410: Aside from the fact I also find this particularly opportunistic of Seikend to jump on Fynal like that, he later asks Ran, kuz and Sword about it. In that post he specifically states he thinks what Fynal did was scummy. Ran proceeds to answer that its a scumtell (agreeing with Seik) but then in #499 Seikend attacks Ran for being opportunistic in his fynal stance, despite Seikend earlier having the EXACT same stance - Seik states that action X is scummy, but when Ran agrees with him he called Ran opportunistic for it[/collapse]Vote: Seikend[collapse=Why kuz is Seik's partner]

A.) Seik totally avoids mentioning kuz during D1 despite him being one of the most active players - Its common for noobscum to do that. They try to not be connected with their partner in case it incriminates them, but end up over compensating. I've done this and lost scum the game in Bioware and Soul Calibur, BSL did it terribly in Allstars but somehow got away with it. Its like classic noobscum and incredibly damning for kuz should Seik flip scum

B.) After Soup makes a case on Seik. Kuz basically jumps on saying that is what he was thinking, and gently pushes the Seik wagon but never commits to it. You have to read in context from #1081 to understand it. The main thing is kuz appears to be attacking Seik, but if you pay attention he never makes an effort to get people onto the wagon, just questions him in an aggressive manner. Scumkuz trying to not appear connected to Seik

C.) I asked kuz about Seik's meta. They have hydra'd together so I would expect kuz to know it particularly well, yet kuz ignores me. Missing a questions is acceptable sure, but the fact the post before mine he specifically states he is waiting for my post, which he then ignores the question in? This is by far the weakest of the proof of connections but still worth mentioning
[/collapse]
[collapse=So is kuz scummy in his own right?]

Yeah. He is. I really cba to into it now but it comes down to a few things

1.) His defence of Ran.

Yup, its scummy. Not because I think Ran is scum, but because the way he did it was scummy. If a town player thought Ran was town, he'd just push away from Ran, attacking the scumpicks instead. Kuz didn't do that, he made a big charade of specifically defending Ran, making sure everyone saw him do it. I used this exact strategy to win the game as scum in Newbie 11 (Gova would tell you if he hadn't been NK'ed). I cleared Dourin as basically town on D1 (?????Because why would scum ever do that???). Also if he could truly read Ran from meta he'd know it from the start of the game, the "Ran-town-tells" he describes have been exhibited form the start of D1. The fact he is so confident in his Ran read when Ran's been incredibly scummy (he always is) makes me think that kuz has outside information that Ran is town (i.e Ran isn't on kuz's scumteam, ergo is town)

2.) His WIFOM after his defence of Ran

Kuz says "oh yeah as scum why would I distract from an easy mislynch, makes no sense". I've basically touched on this and I already called him out for it. Firstly its stupid WIFOM, and secondly I used this exact line of reasoning to win Mafia Allstars as scum. lol.

3.) Kuz playing up to his IC massively. He's not explaining reads until way after he makes them too

Each read kuz has had he's trying to make people work for him. Aside from the fact that at this stage in the game its completely unnecessary to make people jump through hoops like that. Its just a waste of time. He should just explain his reads and get on with it. I find the way he continues to try to play super IC a scum tell. Townkuz should be just getting down and scumhunting way more. When he directed Night actions at the end of D1 it was reall generic and not in any way useful. Advice dogging.
[/collapse]

omfg I'm tired as hell. Seik wagon go. Lynch kuz the Day after. Dunno who the third scummy is yet.

BY THE WAY, NEWBIES ARE GOING EAT THIS POST UP BECAUSE IT'S DETAILED AND SEEMS LIKE YOU ARE LEGITMATELY POST A STANCE WHEN MOST OF IT IS JUST BULL****.
I'm not going to go through all of your little pretty post, but i am going to deteriorate it.

If we make note of Seik's stances throughout the game I've only done up to post #500 because I have a life. The people he has called scum or attacked are: Sword, JTB, Fynal, Ran

Re-read some. Seikend is scum, kuz is probably his buddy. Don't know about AA. Ran is town because scumkuz would never try that on his scumbud and townkuz would never make such a drastic move unless he was sure he was right.

***** please, AA has once specifically asked you something, (as noted in this post.)
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=12500941&postcount=706

Sword - Big scumpick for D1, Seikend (and everyone else else) had the right to believe he was scum.

also, your little quote there, that was in RVS, so

JTB - Same goes here, in the beginning of the game everyone was on JTB.

Fynal - AGAIN, everyone was on fynal, just because seikend was doesn't make it any different.

Ran - you really are silly you know that.

Seikend's stances are incredibly poor. He starts off attacking Sword for a very weak reason, but then continues that read on for at least half of the Day. His attack on Ran simply comes down to Ranmaru being "iffy" with what he said. His attack on JTB is very poorly founded and very opportunistic. He literally asks TWICE (one, two) for reasons to jump on the wagon - He's begging people to let him wagon-hop, JTB was already L-3 at this point.

so are yours.
Yes, he is not sure whether to believe Ran is Scum, or Town, that is not a scumtell.
Hey, X1, i was the one attacking JTB mostly, not seikend, and in fact, i think seikend had like one or two posts.
Because he isn't sure if it's okay?

Now we've seen Seik being opportunistic and jumpy with his scumreads - fast to accept people as scum. There is also two contradictions in his posts, one is a VERY big deal imo

If there is reason to a scum-read, why just ignore it, seikend also questions his own thoughts usually, and is always asking questions to if he is doing something right.

I ask Seikend his scumpicks. He says: Seik basically states that he has a next most scummy player. Or at least that he's thought about who would be the next scummy player. He then goes on to answer it saying "any other scumpick at this point would be reaching honestly". Firstly if he had no other scumpicks, why would he ever need to ask me what I wanted from him, there was only one thing he could give? If he only had one scumpicks, why would he ever ask that question? Secondly, he acts in the first quote as though he HAS other scumpicks, but then goes on to say other scumpicks would be reaching.

Yes, thought, not know, you are trying to seem that YOU KNOW seikend is scum, what's the difference? you're pulling a 'look at me and how brilliant i am let's all follow me and attack seikend when we were on AA for the longest time'

lemme give you a situation, you have a gun pointed to your face, the criminal asks you what any information you know, do you saying nothing, or do you state something so you aren't dead?

annndddd..there you go.

you're just making my point better.

410: Aside from the fact I also find this particularly opportunistic of Seikend to jump on Fynal like that, he later asks Ran, kuz and Sword about it. In that post he specifically states he thinks what Fynal did was scummy. Ran proceeds to answer that its a scumtell (agreeing with Seik) but then in #499 Seikend attacks Ran for being opportunistic in his fynal stance, despite Seikend earlier having the EXACT same stance - Seik states that action X is scummy, but when Ran agrees with him he called Ran opportunistic for it

Feedback, it's wonderful.

It's not the same situation, There's a question in there, he didn't just blatantly attack Ranmaru, he didn't like how he answered, reach harder.

Lemme give you that gun situation again.

So, you tell the man what you know, he nods but still holds the gun to your face, just for intimidation.
he asks you "why shouldn't i kill you?"
what do you do?

[quote]Seik totally avoids mentioning kuz during D1 despite him being one of the most active players - Its common for noobscum to do that. They try to not be connected with their partner in case it incriminates them, but end up over compensating. I've done this and lost scum the game in Bioware and Soul Calibur, BSL did it terribly in Allstars but somehow got away with it. Its like classic noobscum and incredibly damning for kuz should Seik flip scum
[/quote]

Hi X1! asianaussie did the same thing.
Hi Again! look at my post above!

B.)After Soup makes a case on Seik. Kuz basically jumps on saying that is what he was thinking, and gently pushes the Seik wagon but never commits to it. You have to read in context from #1081 to understand it. The main thing is kuz appears to be attacking Seik, but if you pay attention he never makes an effort to get people onto the wagon, just questions him in an aggressive manner. Scumkuz trying to not appear connected to Seik

No, Kuz trying to make the newbies play for themselves. X1, these are terrible stances, i should know better from you.

I asked kuz about Seik's meta. They have hydra'd together so I would expect kuz to know it particularly well, yet kuz ignores me. Missing a questions is acceptable sure, but the fact the post before mine he specifically states he is waiting for my post, which he then ignores the question in? This is by far the weakest of the proof of connections but still worth mentioning

You've missed multiple questions, and remember: the post above me

1.) His defence of Ran.

Yup, its scummy. Not because I think Ran is scum, but because the way he did it was scummy. If a town player thought Ran was town, he'd just push away from Ran, attacking the scumpicks instead. Kuz didn't do that, he made a big charade of specifically defending Ran, making sure everyone saw him do it. I used this exact strategy to win the game as scum in Newbie 11 (Gova would tell you if he hadn't been NK'ed). I cleared Dourin as basically town on D1 (?????Because why would scum ever do that???). Also if he could truly read Ran from meta he'd know it from the start of the game, the "Ran-town-tells" he describes have been exhibited form the start of D1. The fact he is so confident in his Ran read when Ran's been incredibly scummy (he always is) makes me think that kuz has outside information that Ran is town (i.e Ran isn't on kuz's scumteam, ergo is town)

AHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAH, no seriously, this is hilarious.

If you're not 100% on someone being town, and you would like to get an insight on your suspicsion, you don't just stop pressuring them, you pressure them until you are sure your read is correct or wrong.

Yes, a charade, a test to see if his townread matches up to what he re-read, suck harder please.

way to help the noobs, X1.

2.) His WIFOM after his defence of Ran

Kuz says "oh yeah as scum why would I distract from an easy mislynch, makes no sense". I've basically touched on this and I already called him out for it. Firstly its stupid WIFOM, and secondly I used this exact line of reasoning to win Mafia Allstars as scum. lol.

>Use own meta to call someone scum
>in a newbie game
>????
>profit!!

3.)Kuz playing up to his IC massively.He's not explaining reads until way after he makes them too

Each read kuz has had he's trying to make people work for him. Aside from the fact that at this stage in the game its completely unnecessary to make people jump through hoops like that. Its just a waste of time. He should just explain his reads and get on with it. I find the way he continues to try to play super IC a scum tell. Townkuz should be just getting down and scumhunting way more. When he directed Night actions at the end of D1 it was reall generic and not in any way useful. Advice dogging.

he's an IC, and he has barely even used it as an excuse; HE WANTS THE NEWBIES TO LEARN.

ONCE AGAIN, LEARN.

L-E-A-R-N.

No, he's trying to help the town, all you're doing is trying to look smart.


So X1, here's your post in a nutshell.

you throw in Seikend (whom already looked scummy) and then you throw in the most active and most helpful player in the game, and you only excuse to the connection is meta, and that he is using his IC as an excuse.

....rofl.

unvote vote X1-12

be scum harder please.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Soup, please stop dropping the colon.