Newbie Mafia 12 FMP Fumoffu!: Game over!

[#HBC | ѕoup]

K, Kuzzaii check it.
First things first, reason as to why gova died, related to seikend or not.
i think this would be obvious, but i haven't seen anyone mention it, but..remember ranmaru being the only one voting gova, and suspecting him?
there's one of the reasons, give ranmaru even more of a target on his back by trying to link him to gova.
personally, this is almost a noobscum tell to me, it just seems too obvious, if i were scum, it's what i were to do but ranmaru is far too easy of a scapegoat.
allow me to get a bit off track and remind you guys about sword, remember his replacement plea? he had Ranmaru set as town.
sword flipped town.
i also re-read and thought about it, he said that ranmaru is just being ranmaru, largely scatterbrained (like me sometimes but i am getting alot better) and trying to help town in his own way.
i thought about it (again) and came to conclusion this is correct, ranmaru doesn't seem to have many scummy purposes in his posts while i was re-reading, advice dogging is one thing but i feel so ignorant for trying to say that is a scum-tell.
now that is cleared up, let's move on to seikend, shall we? i will also throw in some other people too.
this is just something i want you guys to look at.

Your scum picks, give them To me.Kuz, notice anything familiar when I wass scum in dissidia?

(noted i am not just focusing on what seikend said just not too long ago, but everything.)
BUT SINCE KUZAII WILL ASK:

:/. Wrote a post regarding Soren, saw it had already been addressed. Still want Ran lynched, but for now:
Vote: Soren
@Soren Give some scumpicks please. Don't be wishy-washy: just take some stances. Doesn't matter if you're wrong, as well as it's well reasoned. Don't like how fast that Ran wagon went at all. if Ran flips town i'd look at people on the wagon.

the bulk of the post is not the soren part.
the bulk of the post is that Seikend basically knows that ranmaru will fip town, he NK'ed gova to put the blame on ranmaru more, and not only that, he now has multiple options of who to get lynched, it's nice in factor but incredibly stupid in reality.
he basically contradicts his own sentence, he states he did not like how the ran wagon went, but in fact, he moves back onto it, and also, he WAS (until kuz called him out) trying to stay off ranmaru so he can state "I was defending him, i didn't vote him!" it's a textbook scum-move, have the town do your work so you can't get your hands dirty.
i will continue my ISO if kuz asks me to, but i think i just nailed it.
unvote Vote: Seikend

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

A bit bad worded and spaced but I hope you get the message.

 

[TheBlueSpot]

I Think that Seik looks a bit scummy, but nothing so hard as to have a change of heart, instead of putting Ran immediately onto the L-1 he wants to pressure some other players and bring them into attention.
Kuzs complete change of heart is interesting, while I agree with him that Ran no longer seems like the most likely scum ( still haven't figured out IMO who is) he wants to take him UNDER HIS BOSOM 4EEEVEERR. Now I assume that this is a joke . But I still have a reasonable suspicion around Ran, and around Seik, however I am not sure which has a stronger tell, as I explained above still on the fence.

Upon reviewing Seik's comment however I find that he is hypocritical, asking politely that Soren not be wishy-washy while wishy-washing the muffins outta his post. I want RAN lynched still BUT I don't like how fast other people wanted him lynched.... ,OH OHO H and if he flips town I want to everyone to look away from me and at stronger leaders of town!
He seems overly obsessed with avoiding any real attention, finding an outlet for scum wagon and remaining under the radar.

Sorry Hope this didn't ramble to much.
VOTE: Seikend

 

[th3kuzinator]

I'm not a fan of NK wifom but the latter part of your post touches on what I am talking about. It's really a combination of a lot of scummy things packed into one post so it's hard to get all of it.

 

[TheBlueSpot]

I know I was wishy-washy but I just wrote out my thought process, the first half of the post is just how I thought skimming the post then the second starting with However is my actual stance

 

[th3kuzinator]

My above post was in response to Soup btw.

 

[th3kuzinator]

JTB are you town?

 

[th3kuzinator]

Now X1, I would like your thoughts on that post.

Anything that stands out to you that no one has touched on yet?

 

[th3kuzinator]

While we wait.

@Seikend: If you were a dayvig and had to chose one of either Utd or Soren to shoot right now who would it be and why? And yes, I actually want this answered.

@mod: request prods on UTD and Soren

 

[Seikend]

:/.

I mentioned what we could look at from a Rantown flip because that was what Ran was constantly asking for. Kuz only provided Ran scumflip leads, I was providing the other half.

I wasn't deliberately staying off Ran. He was at L-2 before Kuz looked at me. I couldn't vote then. And yeah, It didn't click in my head that Kuz voting me meant Ran was no longer at L-2. As soon as I knew this was the case, I voted.

I want to look at the people on the wagon because as far as I remember, Ran was my top pick and I think X1 had a Ran pick too, but that was it.

While we wait.

@Seikend: If you were a dayvig and had to chose one of either Utd or Soren to shoot right now who would it be and why? And yes, I actually want this answered.

Soren.



They are both null for me but UTD would be entirely a shot in the dark with no leads either way. At least with Soren there's some connections, as weak as they might be.

 

[th3kuzinator]

Do you think we've had enough discussion wrt the Ran wagon already?

 

[Seikend]

I want thoughts from Soren and UTD in regards to Ran.


So no.

 

[JTB]

JTB are you town?

Yeah boi



I'll comment on shiz when I get back later

 

[ranmaru]

:/.

I mentioned what we could look at from a Rantown flip because that was what Ran was constantly asking for. Kuz only provided Ran scumflip leads, I was providing the other half.

I wasn't deliberately staying off Ran. He was at L-2 before Kuz looked at me. I couldn't vote then. And yeah, It didn't click in my head that Kuz voting me meant Ran was no longer at L-2. As soon as I knew this was the case, I voted.

I want to look at the people on the wagon because as far as I remember, Ran was my top pick and I think X1 had a Ran pick too, but that was it.



Soren.



They are both null for me but UTD would be entirely a shot in the dark with no leads either way. At least with Soren there's some connections, as weak as they might be.

Regarding to the bold, you should have asked Kuz to answer the question fully, instead of answering it yourself. This would be in a way, defending Kuz from having to answer the question. Although that post didn't seem like you were adding to Kuz's question anyhow. At first, you should have been addressing it to me. Also, did you ever mention that Kuz failed to fully answer my question before?

The real question is: Do you REALLY believe in your scumpicks? I will ask you to give your reasons to both your scumpicks again.

 

[ranmaru]

@Kuzi: What did you think about the wagon on me? Is Seik wrong or right about the wagon?

 

[Seikend]

Regarding to the bold, you should have asked Kuz to answer the question fully, instead of answering it yourself. This would be in a way, defending Kuz from having to answer the question. Although that post didn't seem like you were adding to Kuz's question anyhow. At first, you should have been addressing it to me. Also, did you ever mention that Kuz failed to fully answer my question before?

It was pretty clear by that point that Kuz had no intentions of answering the question. You had asked like 3 times or something, while still getting nothing from Kuz. It was super obvious Kuz wasn't answering your question, I don't see why I needed to state that.

Okay, fine. I thought it was pretty clear it was meant to be the town leads you had been constantly asking for, but yeah, I could have been clearer. Who else do you think it was directed to though?

The real question is: Do you REALLY believe in your scumpicks? I will ask you to give your reasons to both your scumpicks again.

Ran: Your D1 play consisted of minimal scumhunting. You spent your time just giving advice for newbies and fluffing. Your vote on Fynal was bleh, you failed to read my defence for my Fynal vote properly, you made posts along the lines of "Sword could be town or scum, let's wait and see" etc. etc.

You made a lot of posts, but you certainly wasn't reading the thread properly. Skim all day.

AA: Inconsistency in D1, and his reasoning didn't sit well with me. I can understand taking a random scumpick in RVS, but the way AA responded was just bleh.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Seikend, why couldn't you vote while kuz was on you? Why did you even care?

 

[Seikend]

Seikend, why couldn't you vote while kuz was on you? Why did you even care?

It's not that I couldn't. I just that I thought I couldn't.

Ran was at L-2, and so I was thinking that I can't vote Ran.

Kuz votes me and talks about how super scummy I am, and so my attention goes to that.

I didn't know Ran was at L-3 until it was pointed out to me.



Not sure what the second point is.

 

[ranmaru]

K, Kuzzaii check it.
First things first, reason as to why gova died, related to seikend or not.
i think this would be obvious, but i haven't seen anyone mention it, but..remember ranmaru being the only one voting gova, and suspecting him?
there's one of the reasons, give ranmaru even more of a target on his back by trying to link him to gova.
personally, this is almost a noobscum tell to me, it just seems too obvious, if i were scum, it's what i were to do but ranmaru is far too easy of a scapegoat.
allow me to get a bit off track and remind you guys about sword, remember his replacement plea? he had Ranmaru set as town.
sword flipped town.
i also re-read and thought about it, he said that ranmaru is just being ranmaru, largely scatterbrained (like me sometimes but i am getting alot better) and trying to help town in his own way.
i thought about it (again) and came to conclusion this is correct, ranmaru doesn't seem to have many scummy purposes in his posts while i was re-reading, advice dogging is one thing but i feel so ignorant for trying to say that is a scum-tell.
now that is cleared up, let's move on to seikend, shall we? i will also throw in some other people too.
this is just something i want you guys to look at.

(noted i am not just focusing on what seikend said just not too long ago, but everything.)
BUT SINCE KUZAII WILL ASK:

the bulk of the post is not the soren part.
the bulk of the post is that Seikend basically knows that ranmaru will fip town, he NK'ed gova to put the blame on ranmaru more, and not only that, he now has multiple options of who to get lynched, it's nice in factor but incredibly stupid in reality.
he basically contradicts his own sentence, he states he did not like how the ran wagon went, but in fact, he moves back onto it, and also, he WAS (until kuz called him out) trying to stay off ranmaru so he can state "I was defending him, i didn't vote him!" it's a textbook scum-move, have the town do your work so you can't get your hands dirty.
i will continue my ISO if kuz asks me to, but i think i just nailed it.
unvote Vote: Seikend

About the Scatterbrained part, it's a doozy. That's why I'm trying to do bullet points and tables for big posts/cases.

Anyways, about Swords saying I'm always myself... He does that alot. "Cello is Cello" but he forgets we can always change meta. Always try to look at IN GAME actions, not solely meta.

Why didn't you notice this before?

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

i did, just didn't have the time or effort to post, y'know, kuz told me not to post either.

 

[ranmaru]

It was pretty clear by that point that Kuz had no intentions of answering the question. You had asked like 3 times or something, while still getting nothing from Kuz. It was super obvious Kuz wasn't answering your question, I don't see why I needed to state that.

Okay, fine. I thought it was pretty clear it was meant to be the town leads you had been constantly asking for, but yeah, I could have been clearer. Who else do you think it was directed to though?




Ran: Your D1 play consisted of minimal scumhunting. You spent your time just giving advice for newbies and fluffing. Your vote on Fynal was bleh, you failed to read my defence for my Fynal vote properly, you made posts along the lines of "Sword could be town or scum, let's wait and see" etc. etc.

You made a lot of posts, but you certainly wasn't reading the thread properly. Skim all day.

AA: Inconsistency in D1, and his reasoning didn't sit well with me. I can understand taking a random scumpick in RVS, but the way AA responded was just bleh.

I can understand that, but I didn't see you say anything along the lines of "Why isn't Kuz answering his question?" No, I didn't know it was directed to me at all. You could have said "Well since Kuz didn't answer Ran's question, I'll answer this half". Please specify which part of that post, was meant to answer my town leads. Also, it's usually better if you try to make my suspects answer the questions, because they'd most likely try to get scumpicks of people who are townie.

 

[th3kuzinator]

@JTB: Cool. Welcome to being town.

@Seikend: if you were so worried about the wagon building too fast without enough discussion, why are you now voting for him?

 

[ranmaru]

Kuz, can you respond to my #1095?

 

[Seikend]

@JTB: Cool. Welcome to being town.

@Seikend: if you were so worried about the wagon building too fast without enough discussion, why are you now voting for him?

Discussion is on me currently Kuz, not Ran. No one will be voting Ran for a while until they give their thoughts on me. My vote won't be causing a Ran lynch anytime soon.

 

[th3kuzinator]

@Kuzi: What did you think about the wagon on me? Is Seik wrong or right about the wagon?

It swayed that way initially because both ICs supported it. Its obviously wrong because you're not scum, but I had suspicions about you at the time. I don't know what you mean about being right or wrong about your wagon but I think I made it very clear that you're town and he's scum.

 

[Fynal]

oh my, lots of posts again

from skimming:

kuz i don't like yer change of heart on ran. at all.
ran had lots of telling newbs and ICs what they should be doing, and a number of "no guys rly i am scumhunting". i don't like it. at all. looks and feels scummy.

can you please try to explain to me what made you switch so suddenly?

vote on siek stands. more thoughts after i read more.

 

[th3kuzinator]

@Fynal: Despite often not being in one, Ran really likes taking leadership positions. I have talked to him on numerous occasions before the game even started and he has told me repeatedly that its like his goal to lead newbies as town in a newbie game or at least be a power player.

I feel with the SE slot he was given, he wanted to to take advantage of that and try to thus direct players by acting as if he knew what he was talking about and thus playing an IC. Trust me, its not pro-town, but its not scummy when we consider its Ran.

My switch on Ran came when I re-read the thread and focused more on his posts. For someone who was his only scum buddy in his only (hopefully) scum game thus far, I got a really strong townRan vibe that was being droned out by some of the anti-town things he has done (probably even overhighlighted to some degree by others).

 

[Fynal]

so, your newfound townRan read is based much on your meta expierence?

 

[th3kuzinator]

Indeed. I would actually go so far to say he is one of my stronger reads.

 

[Fynal]

i find that...noteworthy/interesting, considering the end of ran's 1099, but i don't see a scumlead to follow.

kuz, 3rd scumpick behind siek/aa? (i assume you still think aa is scum?)

 

[th3kuzinator]

@Fynal: I had a complete change of heart and thus revamped all my scum picks. Trust me when I say that currently giving my scum picks will hurt town more than help it.

I will talk more about it before the Day ends for sure. Want to hear what X1 has to think about the inactives first.

@Seikend:

Don't like how fast that Ran wagon went at all.

I still support a Ran lynch. But not right now. It's way too soon, and how fast that wagon went with minimal discussion is bad.

But despite that, you vote. If you didn't like how fast his wagon grew to L-2 because we didnt have enough discussion, then why would you put him right back at L-2 once someone left?

You say that discussion is currently on you, which is partially untrue. We are still largely discussing Ranmaru's alignment, something which you seemed to have fallen on pursuing and are mostly focusing on defending yourself. This is the type of reactive type of play that AA was talking about earlier instead of proactively pushing your main scum pick. I am not saying you can't defend yourself, which is completely natural. I am saying I don't think you ACTUALLY believe Ranmaru is scum and it shows in the way you post.

Ranmaru (shockingly ) noticed the same thing in his 1094

The real question is: Do you REALLY believe in your scumpicks? I will ask you to give your reasons to both your scumpicks again.

 

[th3kuzinator]

That one wasn't actually my fault, pressed the edit button instead of quote.

 

[Seikend]

@Seikend:

But despite that, you vote. If you didn't like how fast his wagon grew to L-2 because we didnt have enough discussion, then why would you put him right back at L-2 once someone left?

You say that discussion is currently on you, which is partially untrue. We are still largely discussing Ranmaru's alignment, something which you seemed to have fallen on pursuing and are mostly focusing on defending yourself. This is the type of reactive type of play that AA was talking about earlier instead of proactively pushing your main scum pick. I am not saying you can't defend yourself, which is completely natural. I am saying I don't think you ACTUALLY believe Ranmaru is scum and it shows in the way you post.

Ranmaru (shockingly ) noticed the same thing in his 1094

Discussion hasn't been about Ran's alignment. Your focus has been on me, and inactives. We've hardly discussed Ran at all. You've just asserted that you've had a change of heart on Ran and that he's town from meta. There's literally nothing I can say about that since I have no Ran meta, and I can't question you on why you had a change of heart because you say you've reread. I can't prove or disprove that.

Now, why I haven't been proactive. Usually i'd be a lot more vocal about my stances and push for lynches. Recently though I haven't been feeling so confident about my reads, I feel like I pick up on all the wrong things and it's honestly frustrating. So I've kinda taken a backseat this game and taken time to think before I make any pushes. Evidently that was a bad idea so I'll try to get back into pushing my scumpicks.

 

[th3kuzinator]

Hi X1.

Bye X1.

 

[X1-12]

hi kuz

bye kuz

 

[th3kuzinator]

fufufuufu

Well isn't this productive.

 

[X1-12]

tomorrow perhaps.

 

[th3kuzinator]

Well when you do, 1088 is a good place to start.

 

[th3kuzinator]

@Seikend: are you confident in your scumRan read?

 

[Seikend]

Now? Eh, not super confident. His D2 play has been far better than D1.