Newbie Mafia 12 FMP Fumoffu!: Game over!

[adumbrodeus]

Votecount 4:

Ranmaru [0] -
TheBlueSpot [0] -
Fynal [0] -
UTDZac [0] -
Blacknight99923 (Soren) [0] -
X1-12 [2] - th3kuzinator, JTB,
th3kuzinator [1] - X1-12,
JTB [0] -
Seikend [0] - TheBlueSpot,
Soupamario [0] -
asianaussie [2] - Seikend, Fynal,

Not Voting: Blacknight99923 (Soren), UTDZac, Ranmaru, Seikend, asianaussie, Soupamario,


With 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch.


A deadline has been set for May 2nd at 0400 hours.

Soupamario has modified a post slightly, the original post and modified versions are as follows. Please note that for all moderation purposes excluding rule-breaking (votecounts etc) the original is what counts.

For reference it is his 1199.


Original

Spoiler

Re-read some. Seikend is scum, kuz is probably his buddy. Don't know about AA. Ran is town because scumkuz would never try that on his scumbud and townkuz would never make such a drastic move unless he was sure he was right.

[collapse=Why is Seikend scum?]If we make note of Seik's stances throughout the game I've only done up to post #500 because I have a life. The people he has called scum or attacked are: Sword, JTB, Fynal, Ran

Seikend's stances are incredibly poor. He starts off attacking Sword for a very weak reason, but then continues that read on for at least half of the Day. His attack on Ran simply comes down to Ranmaru being "iffy" with what he said. His attack on JTB is very poorly founded and very opportunistic. He literally asks TWICE (one, two) for reasons to jump on the wagon - He's begging people to let him wagon-hop, JTB was already L-3 at this point.

Now we've seen Seik being opportunistic and jumpy with his scumreads - fast to accept people as scum. There is also two contradictions in his posts, one is a VERY big deal imo

Contradiction numero uno (aka the small one)

I ask Seikend his scumpicks. He says: Seik basically states that he has a next most scummy player. Or at least that he's thought about who would be the next scummy player. He then goes on to answer it saying "any other scumpick at this point would be reaching honestly". Firstly if he had no other scumpicks, why would he ever need to ask me what I wanted from him, there was only one thing he could give? If he only had one scumpicks, why would he ever ask that question? Secondly, he acts in the first quote as though he HAS other scumpicks, but then goes on to say other scumpicks would be reaching.

Contradiction duo (aka the big one)

#410: Aside from the fact I also find this particularly opportunistic of Seikend to jump on Fynal like that, he later asks Ran, kuz and Sword about it. In that post he specifically states he thinks what Fynal did was scummy. Ran proceeds to answer that its a scumtell (agreeing with Seik) but then in #499 Seikend attacks Ran for being opportunistic in his fynal stance, despite Seikend earlier having the EXACT same stance - Seik states that action X is scummy, but when Ran agrees with him he called Ran opportunistic for it

Vote: Seikend[collapse=Why kuz is Seik's partner]

A.) Seik totally avoids mentioning kuz during D1 despite him being one of the most active players - Its common for noobscum to do that. They try to not be connected with their partner in case it incriminates them, but end up over compensating. I've done this and lost scum the game in Bioware and Soul Calibur, BSL did it terribly in Allstars but somehow got away with it. Its like classic noobscum and incredibly damning for kuz should Seik flip scum

B.) After Soup makes a case on Seik. Kuz basically jumps on saying that is what he was thinking, and gently pushes the Seik wagon but never commits to it. You have to read in context from #1081 to understand it. The main thing is kuz appears to be attacking Seik, but if you pay attention he never makes an effort to get people onto the wagon, just questions him in an aggressive manner. Scumkuz trying to not appear connected to Seik

C.) I asked kuz about Seik's meta. They have hydra'd together so I would expect kuz to know it particularly well, yet kuz ignores me. Missing a questions is acceptable sure, but the fact the post before mine he specifically states he is waiting for my post, which he then ignores the question in? This is by far the weakest of the proof of connections but still worth mentioning
[/collapse]
[collapse=So is kuz scummy in his own right?]

Yeah. He is. I really cba to into it now but it comes down to a few things

1.) His defence of Ran.

Yup, its scummy. Not because I think Ran is scum, but because the way he did it was scummy. If a town player thought Ran was town, he'd just push away from Ran, attacking the scumpicks instead. Kuz didn't do that, he made a big charade of specifically defending Ran, making sure everyone saw him do it. I used this exact strategy to win the game as scum in Newbie 11 (Gova would tell you if he hadn't been NK'ed). I cleared Dourin as basically town on D1 (?????Because why would scum ever do that???). Also if he could truly read Ran from meta he'd know it from the start of the game, the "Ran-town-tells" he describes have been exhibited form the start of D1. The fact he is so confident in his Ran read when Ran's been incredibly scummy (he always is) makes me think that kuz has outside information that Ran is town (i.e Ran isn't on kuz's scumteam, ergo is town)

2.) His WIFOM after his defence of Ran

Kuz says "oh yeah as scum why would I distract from an easy mislynch, makes no sense". I've basically touched on this and I already called him out for it. Firstly its stupid WIFOM, and secondly I used this exact line of reasoning to win Mafia Allstars as scum. lol.

3.) Kuz playing up to his IC massively. He's not explaining reads until way after he makes them too

Each read kuz has had he's trying to make people work for him. Aside from the fact that at this stage in the game its completely unnecessary to make people jump through hoops like that. Its just a waste of time. He should just explain his reads and get on with it. I find the way he continues to try to play super IC a scum tell. Townkuz should be just getting down and scumhunting way more. When he directed Night actions at the end of D1 it was reall generic and not in any way useful. Advice dogging.
[/collapse]

omfg I'm tired as hell. Seik wagon go. Lynch kuz the Day after. Dunno who the third scummy is yet.

BY THE WAY, NEWBIES ARE GOING EAT THIS POST UP BECAUSE IT'S DETAILED AND SEEMS LIKE YOU ARE LEGITMATELY POST A STANCE WHEN MOST OF IT IS JUST BULL****.
I'm not going to go through all of your little pretty post, but i am going to deteriorate it.

If we make note of Seik's stances throughout the game I've only done up to post #500 because I have a life. The people he has called scum or attacked are: Sword, JTB, Fynal, Ran

Re-read some. Seikend is scum, kuz is probably his buddy. Don't know about AA. Ran is town because scumkuz would never try that on his scumbud and townkuz would never make such a drastic move unless he was sure he was right.

***** please, AA has once specifically asked you something, (as noted in this post.)
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=12500941&postcount=706

Sword - Big scumpick for D1, Seikend (and everyone else else) had the right to believe he was scum.

also, your little quote there, that was in RVS, so

JTB - Same goes here, in the beginning of the game everyone was on JTB.

Fynal - AGAIN, everyone was on fynal, just because seikend was doesn't make it any different.

Ran - you really are silly you know that.

Seikend's stances are incredibly poor. He starts off attacking Sword for a very weak reason, but then continues that read on for at least half of the Day. His attack on Ran simply comes down to Ranmaru being "iffy" with what he said. His attack on JTB is very poorly founded and very opportunistic. He literally asks TWICE (one, two) for reasons to jump on the wagon - He's begging people to let him wagon-hop, JTB was already L-3 at this point.

so are yours.
Yes, he is not sure whether to believe Ran is Scum, or Town, that is not a scumtell.
Hey, X1, i was the one attacking JTB mostly, not seikend, and in fact, i think seikend had like one or two posts.
Because he isn't sure if it's okay?

Now we've seen Seik being opportunistic and jumpy with his scumreads - fast to accept people as scum. There is also two contradictions in his posts, one is a VERY big deal imo

If there is reason to a scum-read, why just ignore it, seikend also questions his own thoughts usually, and is always asking questions to if he is doing something right.

I ask Seikend his scumpicks. He says: Seik basically states that he has a next most scummy player. Or at least that he's thought about who would be the next scummy player. He then goes on to answer it saying "any other scumpick at this point would be reaching honestly". Firstly if he had no other scumpicks, why would he ever need to ask me what I wanted from him, there was only one thing he could give? If he only had one scumpicks, why would he ever ask that question? Secondly, he acts in the first quote as though he HAS other scumpicks, but then goes on to say other scumpicks would be reaching.

Yes, thought, not know, you are trying to seem that YOU KNOW seikend is scum, what's the difference? you're pulling a 'look at me and how brilliant i am let's all follow me and attack seikend when we were on AA for the longest time'

lemme give you a situation, you have a gun pointed to your face, the criminal asks you what any information you know, do you saying nothing, or do you state something so you aren't dead?

annndddd..there you go.

you're just making my point better.

410: Aside from the fact I also find this particularly opportunistic of Seikend to jump on Fynal like that, he later asks Ran, kuz and Sword about it. In that post he specifically states he thinks what Fynal did was scummy. Ran proceeds to answer that its a scumtell (agreeing with Seik) but then in #499 Seikend attacks Ran for being opportunistic in his fynal stance, despite Seikend earlier having the EXACT same stance - Seik states that action X is scummy, but when Ran agrees with him he called Ran opportunistic for it

Feedback, it's wonderful.

It's not the same situation, There's a question in there, he didn't just blatantly attack Ranmaru, he didn't like how he answered, reach harder.

Lemme give you that gun situation again.

So, you tell the man what you know, he nods but still holds the gun to your face, just for intimidation.
he asks you "why shouldn't i kill you?"
what do you do?

[quote]Seik totally avoids mentioning kuz during D1 despite him being one of the most active players - Its common for noobscum to do that. They try to not be connected with their partner in case it incriminates them, but end up over compensating. I've done this and lost scum the game in Bioware and Soul Calibur, BSL did it terribly in Allstars but somehow got away with it. Its like classic noobscum and incredibly damning for kuz should Seik flip scum
[/quote]

Hi X1! asianaussie did the same thing.
Hi Again! look at my post above!

B.)After Soup makes a case on Seik. Kuz basically jumps on saying that is what he was thinking, and gently pushes the Seik wagon but never commits to it. You have to read in context from #1081 to understand it. The main thing is kuz appears to be attacking Seik, but if you pay attention he never makes an effort to get people onto the wagon, just questions him in an aggressive manner. Scumkuz trying to not appear connected to Seik

No, Kuz trying to make the newbies play for themselves. X1, these are terrible stances, i should know better from you.

I asked kuz about Seik's meta. They have hydra'd together so I would expect kuz to know it particularly well, yet kuz ignores me. Missing a questions is acceptable sure, but the fact the post before mine he specifically states he is waiting for my post, which he then ignores the question in? This is by far the weakest of the proof of connections but still worth mentioning

You've missed multiple questions, and remember: the post above me

1.) His defence of Ran.

Yup, its scummy. Not because I think Ran is scum, but because the way he did it was scummy. If a town player thought Ran was town, he'd just push away from Ran, attacking the scumpicks instead. Kuz didn't do that, he made a big charade of specifically defending Ran, making sure everyone saw him do it. I used this exact strategy to win the game as scum in Newbie 11 (Gova would tell you if he hadn't been NK'ed). I cleared Dourin as basically town on D1 (?????Because why would scum ever do that???). Also if he could truly read Ran from meta he'd know it from the start of the game, the "Ran-town-tells" he describes have been exhibited form the start of D1. The fact he is so confident in his Ran read when Ran's been incredibly scummy (he always is) makes me think that kuz has outside information that Ran is town (i.e Ran isn't on kuz's scumteam, ergo is town)

AHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAH, no seriously, this is hilarious.

If you're not 100% on someone being town, and you would like to get an insight on your suspicsion, you don't just stop pressuring them, you pressure them until you are sure your read is correct or wrong.

Yes, a charade, a test to see if his townread matches up to what he re-read, suck harder please.

way to help the noobs, X1.

2.) His WIFOM after his defence of Ran

Kuz says "oh yeah as scum why would I distract from an easy mislynch, makes no sense". I've basically touched on this and I already called him out for it. Firstly its stupid WIFOM, and secondly I used this exact line of reasoning to win Mafia Allstars as scum. lol.

>Use own meta to call someone scum
>in a newbie game
>????
>profit!!

3.)Kuz playing up to his IC massively.He's not explaining reads until way after he makes them too

Each read kuz has had he's trying to make people work for him. Aside from the fact that at this stage in the game its completely unnecessary to make people jump through hoops like that. Its just a waste of time. He should just explain his reads and get on with it. I find the way he continues to try to play super IC a scum tell. Townkuz should be just getting down and scumhunting way more. When he directed Night actions at the end of D1 it was reall generic and not in any way useful. Advice dogging.

he's an IC, and he has barely even used it as an excuse; HE WANTS THE NEWBIES TO LEARN.

ONCE AGAIN, LEARN.

L-E-A-R-N.

No, he's trying to help the town, all you're doing is trying to look smart.


So X1, here's your post in a nutshell.

you throw in Seikend (whom already looked scummy) and then you throw in the most active and most helpful player in the game, and you only excuse to the connection is meta, and that he is using his IC as an excuse.

....rofl.

unvote vote X1-12

be scum harder please.[/collapse]


Modified:

Spoiler

Re-read some. Seikend is scum, kuz is probably his buddy. Don't know about AA. Ran is town because scumkuz would never try that on his scumbud and townkuz would never make such a drastic move unless he was sure he was right.

[collapse=Why is Seikend scum?]If we make note of Seik's stances throughout the game I've only done up to post #500 because I have a life. The people he has called scum or attacked are: Sword, JTB, Fynal, Ran

Seikend's stances are incredibly poor. He starts off attacking Sword for a very weak reason, but then continues that read on for at least half of the Day. His attack on Ran simply comes down to Ranmaru being "iffy" with what he said. His attack on JTB is very poorly founded and very opportunistic. He literally asks TWICE (one, two) for reasons to jump on the wagon - He's begging people to let him wagon-hop, JTB was already L-3 at this point.

Now we've seen Seik being opportunistic and jumpy with his scumreads - fast to accept people as scum. There is also two contradictions in his posts, one is a VERY big deal imo

Contradiction numero uno (aka the small one)

I ask Seikend his scumpicks. He says: Seik basically states that he has a next most scummy player. Or at least that he's thought about who would be the next scummy player. He then goes on to answer it saying "any other scumpick at this point would be reaching honestly". Firstly if he had no other scumpicks, why would he ever need to ask me what I wanted from him, there was only one thing he could give? If he only had one scumpicks, why would he ever ask that question? Secondly, he acts in the first quote as though he HAS other scumpicks, but then goes on to say other scumpicks would be reaching.

Contradiction duo (aka the big one)

#410: Aside from the fact I also find this particularly opportunistic of Seikend to jump on Fynal like that, he later asks Ran, kuz and Sword about it. In that post he specifically states he thinks what Fynal did was scummy. Ran proceeds to answer that its a scumtell (agreeing with Seik) but then in #499 Seikend attacks Ran for being opportunistic in his fynal stance, despite Seikend earlier having the EXACT same stance - Seik states that action X is scummy, but when Ran agrees with him he called Ran opportunistic for it

Vote: Seikend[collapse=Why kuz is Seik's partner]

A.) Seik totally avoids mentioning kuz during D1 despite him being one of the most active players - Its common for noobscum to do that. They try to not be connected with their partner in case it incriminates them, but end up over compensating. I've done this and lost scum the game in Bioware and Soul Calibur, BSL did it terribly in Allstars but somehow got away with it. Its like classic noobscum and incredibly damning for kuz should Seik flip scum

B.) After Soup makes a case on Seik. Kuz basically jumps on saying that is what he was thinking, and gently pushes the Seik wagon but never commits to it. You have to read in context from #1081 to understand it. The main thing is kuz appears to be attacking Seik, but if you pay attention he never makes an effort to get people onto the wagon, just questions him in an aggressive manner. Scumkuz trying to not appear connected to Seik

C.) I asked kuz about Seik's meta. They have hydra'd together so I would expect kuz to know it particularly well, yet kuz ignores me. Missing a questions is acceptable sure, but the fact the post before mine he specifically states he is waiting for my post, which he then ignores the question in? This is by far the weakest of the proof of connections but still worth mentioning
[/collapse]
[collapse=So is kuz scummy in his own right?]

Yeah. He is. I really cba to into it now but it comes down to a few things

1.) His defence of Ran.

Yup, its scummy. Not because I think Ran is scum, but because the way he did it was scummy. If a town player thought Ran was town, he'd just push away from Ran, attacking the scumpicks instead. Kuz didn't do that, he made a big charade of specifically defending Ran, making sure everyone saw him do it. I used this exact strategy to win the game as scum in Newbie 11 (Gova would tell you if he hadn't been NK'ed). I cleared Dourin as basically town on D1 (?????Because why would scum ever do that???). Also if he could truly read Ran from meta he'd know it from the start of the game, the "Ran-town-tells" he describes have been exhibited form the start of D1. The fact he is so confident in his Ran read when Ran's been incredibly scummy (he always is) makes me think that kuz has outside information that Ran is town (i.e Ran isn't on kuz's scumteam, ergo is town)

2.) His WIFOM after his defence of Ran

Kuz says "oh yeah as scum why would I distract from an easy mislynch, makes no sense". I've basically touched on this and I already called him out for it. Firstly its stupid WIFOM, and secondly I used this exact line of reasoning to win Mafia Allstars as scum. lol.

3.) Kuz playing up to his IC massively. He's not explaining reads until way after he makes them too

Each read kuz has had he's trying to make people work for him. Aside from the fact that at this stage in the game its completely unnecessary to make people jump through hoops like that. Its just a waste of time. He should just explain his reads and get on with it. I find the way he continues to try to play super IC a scum tell. Townkuz should be just getting down and scumhunting way more. When he directed Night actions at the end of D1 it was reall generic and not in any way useful. Advice dogging.
[/collapse]

omfg I'm tired as hell. Seik wagon go. Lynch kuz the Day after. Dunno who the third scummy is yet.

BY THE WAY, NEWBIES ARE GOING EAT THIS POST UP BECAUSE IT'S DETAILED AND SEEMS LIKE YOU ARE LEGITMATELY POST A STANCE WHEN MOST OF IT IS JUST BULL****.
I'm not going to go through all of your little pretty post, but i am going to deteriorate it.

If we make note of Seik's stances throughout the game I've only done up to post #500 because I have a life. The people he has called scum or attacked are: Sword, JTB, Fynal, Ran

Re-read some. Seikend is scum, kuz is probably his buddy. Don't know about AA. Ran is town because scumkuz would never try that on his scumbud and townkuz would never make such a drastic move unless he was sure he was right.

***** please, AA has once specifically asked you something, (as noted in this post.)
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=12500941&postcount=706

Sword - Big scumpick for D1, Seikend (and everyone else else) had the right to believe he was scum.

also, your little quote there, that was in RVS, so

JTB - Same goes here, in the beginning of the game everyone was on JTB.

Fynal - AGAIN, everyone was on fynal, just because seikend was doesn't make it any different.

Ran - you really are silly you know that.

Seikend's stances are incredibly poor. He starts off attacking Sword for a very weak reason, but then continues that read on for at least half of the Day. His attack on Ran simply comes down to Ranmaru being "iffy" with what he said. His attack on JTB is very poorly founded and very opportunistic. He literally asks TWICE (one, two) for reasons to jump on the wagon - He's begging people to let him wagon-hop, JTB was already L-3 at this point.

so are yours.
Yes, he is not sure whether to believe Ran is Scum, or Town, that is not a scumtell.
Hey, X1, i was the one attacking JTB mostly, not seikend, and in fact, i think seikend had like one or two posts.
Because he isn't sure if it's okay?

Now we've seen Seik being opportunistic and jumpy with his scumreads - fast to accept people as scum. There is also two contradictions in his posts, one is a VERY big deal imo

If there is reason to a scum-read, why just ignore it, seikend also questions his own thoughts usually, and is always asking questions to if he is doing something right.

I ask Seikend his scumpicks. He says: Seik basically states that he has a next most scummy player. Or at least that he's thought about who would be the next scummy player. He then goes on to answer it saying "any other scumpick at this point would be reaching honestly". Firstly if he had no other scumpicks, why would he ever need to ask me what I wanted from him, there was only one thing he could give? If he only had one scumpicks, why would he ever ask that question? Secondly, he acts in the first quote as though he HAS other scumpicks, but then goes on to say other scumpicks would be reaching.

Yes, thought, not know, you are trying to seem that YOU KNOW seikend is scum, what's the difference? you're pulling a 'look at me and how brilliant i am let's all follow me and attack seikend when we were on AA for the longest time'

lemme give you a situation, you have a gun pointed to your face, the criminal asks you what any information you know, do you saying nothing, or do you state something so you aren't dead?

annndddd..there you go.

you're just making my point better.

410: Aside from the fact I also find this particularly opportunistic of Seikend to jump on Fynal like that, he later asks Ran, kuz and Sword about it. In that post he specifically states he thinks what Fynal did was scummy. Ran proceeds to answer that its a scumtell (agreeing with Seik) but then in #499 Seikend attacks Ran for being opportunistic in his fynal stance, despite Seikend earlier having the EXACT same stance - Seik states that action X is scummy, but when Ran agrees with him he called Ran opportunistic for it

Feedback, it's wonderful.

It's not the same situation, There's a question in there, he didn't just blatantly attack Ranmaru, he didn't like how he answered, reach harder.

Lemme give you that gun situation again.

So, you tell the man what you know, he nods but still holds the gun to your face, just for intimidation.
he asks you "why shouldn't i kill you?"
what do you do?

[quote]Seik totally avoids mentioning kuz during D1 despite him being one of the most active players - Its common for noobscum to do that. They try to not be connected with their partner in case it incriminates them, but end up over compensating. I've done this and lost scum the game in Bioware and Soul Calibur, BSL did it terribly in Allstars but somehow got away with it. Its like classic noobscum and incredibly damning for kuz should Seik flip scum
[/quote]

Hi X1! asianaussie did the same thing.
Hi Again! look at my post above!

B.)After Soup makes a case on Seik. Kuz basically jumps on saying that is what he was thinking, and gently pushes the Seik wagon but never commits to it. You have to read in context from #1081 to understand it. The main thing is kuz appears to be attacking Seik, but if you pay attention he never makes an effort to get people onto the wagon, just questions him in an aggressive manner. Scumkuz trying to not appear connected to Seik

No, Kuz trying to make the newbies play for themselves. X1, these are terrible stances, i should know better from you.

I asked kuz about Seik's meta. They have hydra'd together so I would expect kuz to know it particularly well, yet kuz ignores me. Missing a questions is acceptable sure, but the fact the post before mine he specifically states he is waiting for my post, which he then ignores the question in? This is by far the weakest of the proof of connections but still worth mentioning

You've missed multiple questions, and remember: the post above me

1.) His defence of Ran.

Yup, its scummy. Not because I think Ran is scum, but because the way he did it was scummy. If a town player thought Ran was town, he'd just push away from Ran, attacking the scumpicks instead. Kuz didn't do that, he made a big charade of specifically defending Ran, making sure everyone saw him do it. I used this exact strategy to win the game as scum in Newbie 11 (Gova would tell you if he hadn't been NK'ed). I cleared Dourin as basically town on D1 (?????Because why would scum ever do that???). Also if he could truly read Ran from meta he'd know it from the start of the game, the "Ran-town-tells" he describes have been exhibited form the start of D1. The fact he is so confident in his Ran read when Ran's been incredibly scummy (he always is) makes me think that kuz has outside information that Ran is town (i.e Ran isn't on kuz's scumteam, ergo is town)

AHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAH, no seriously, this is hilarious.

If you're not 100% on someone being town, and you would like to get an insight on your suspicsion, you don't just stop pressuring them, you pressure them until you are sure your read is correct or wrong.

Yes, a charade, a test to see if his townread matches up to what he re-read, suck harder please.

way to help the noobs, X1.

2.) His WIFOM after his defence of Ran

Kuz says "oh yeah as scum why would I distract from an easy mislynch, makes no sense". I've basically touched on this and I already called him out for it. Firstly its stupid WIFOM, and secondly I used this exact line of reasoning to win Mafia Allstars as scum. lol.

>Use own meta to call someone scum
>in a newbie game
>????
>profit!!

3.)Kuz playing up to his IC massively.He's not explaining reads until way after he makes them too

Each read kuz has had he's trying to make people work for him. Aside from the fact that at this stage in the game its completely unnecessary to make people jump through hoops like that. Its just a waste of time. He should just explain his reads and get on with it. I find the way he continues to try to play super IC a scum tell. Townkuz should be just getting down and scumhunting way more. When he directed Night actions at the end of D1 it was reall generic and not in any way useful. Advice dogging.

he's an IC, and he has barely even used it as an excuse; HE WANTS THE NEWBIES TO LEARN.

ONCE AGAIN, LEARN.

L-E-A-R-N.

No, he's trying to help the town, all you're doing is trying to look smart.


So X1, here's your post in a nutshell.

you throw in Seikend (whom already looked scummy) and then you throw in the most active and most helpful player in the game, and you only excuse to the connection is meta, and that he is using his IC as an excuse.

....rofl.

unvote vote X1-12

be scum harder please.[/collapse]


Thanks to chibo for reverting the post at my request.

Also, again I remind everyone to format their votes correctly, a lot of incorrectly formatted votes were made this votecount and they were ignored.


edit: removed the quote tags around Soup's post and instead linked to it outside the collapse tags due to a badly nested quote tag making it impossible to represent the post accurately with quote tags around it.

 

[th3kuzinator]

Yeah, X1 should be lower than L-4.

 

[ranmaru]

Oops.

Vote: X1-12

 

[Blacknight99923]

vote X1-12

I really do apologize for my late replies, but I've been pretty busy IRL teh last few days.

 

[JTB]

I do. Do you have any reason for why it can't be?

I don't have a solid reason that it can't be TvT, but the way in which they are attacking each other feels like a TvS.

Soren, the games been up for like, weeks now. And you messed up your vote.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

@mod you asked me not to drop the colon, so I edited it in >.>

 

[adumbrodeus]

@mod you asked me not to drop the colon, so I edited it in >.>

That was for future reference because you've done it so many times, but I simply cannot allow post editing, it simply breaks the game.

 

[X1-12]

kuz are you really attacking me for not having responded to your whole case yet? Have you not seen I've been posting from phone? How far-reaching are you?

I want to figure it out toMorrow in further detail after an X1 scum flip and the NK.

Explain how this isn't you assuming you'll be alive toMorrow. Show how me saying so is twisting your words. This is the quote exactly as you wrote it.

@kuz I hadn't read your post then. Now I have. Its full of ****.

First off on your part about TBS. You say I was pushing the easy lynch? That's not true. You ask me for the vibe of a specific post, I say that vibe is yuk. I then go on to explain my general TBS read.

You ask me about the vibe from a specific post
I answer it (First paragraph, the "@kuz part")
You ask me why TBS is a good play
I Explain (Last paragraph)

Not a contradiction

Later in that part you attack me for disagreeing with you? I found something scummy and you thought it was noobtown? We disagreed ergo I'm scum?

@Kuz: Have you seen SoupScum on forum before?


Now your defence of my case:

"X1 also tries to summarize my meta and assume I would never do what I just did as town which, if you knew my meta, is complete bull. ". Explain how you got that from this:

Ran is town because scumkuz would never try that on his scumbud and townkuz would never make such a drastic move unless he was sure he was right.

It doesn't follow at all.


You then go on to defend yourself with Self-meta, saying you've done it before as town =/= you are town in this game. Beyond that its a fallacy to say what he did previously was "exactly the same" when I've already explain how its not. In B&F he simply stated that he changed his mind. 1 Post saying that, A second clarifying and explaining more reads, then from there just scumhunting and attacking Nabe. Instead here there's 7 posts before anything coming close to an explanation, its quite clearly different way . He states he changes heart. States he think's Ran is town. Restates that he has a town-read on Ran. Reminds everyone how town he is because he defending Ran rather than letting the ML happen (WIFOM). Talks about his change of heart (it was because of a re-read). States Ran shouldn't go because he has a town read on him. Tell's Ran he is town. First Sight of a reason for the Ran Read!!!

K. Now you attack me with meta. "I'm more 'correctly' aggro as town? I disagree with you, ergo I'm scum? Seriously

Right now you defend seik's stance as RVS. So Random Vote, yet he gives reasoning for his vote and tries to justify it. Is that a Random Vote? No. The rest of your defence of Seik is just you disagreeing with me about tells.

Again, X1 knows I do this stuff as town and he witnessed it and MLd me in a previous game where I did it. No way he doesn't remember. X1 then tries to use some of his own scummeta to convict me...

Who. The. ****. Does. That?

This is what I did as scum and it worked therefore this is what Kuz would do as scum. I feel like Dark Horse in here but thats such a fallacy I can't even tell you.

I explain why its scummy. Its because of the way you carried it out. You nicely ignored all that and just jumped on the fact I used an example calling it a logical fallacy. You didn't explain or defend against any of the bolded part

Yup, its scummy. Not because I think Ran is scum, but because the way he did it was scummy. If a town player thought Ran was town, he'd just push away from Ran, attacking the scumpicks instead. Kuz didn't do that, he made a big charade of specifically defending Ran, making sure everyone saw him do it. I used this exact strategy to win the game as scum in Newbie 11 (Gova would tell you if he hadn't been NK'ed). I cleared Dourin as basically town on D1 (?????Because why would scum ever do that???). Also if he could truly read Ran from meta he'd know it from the start of the game, the "Ran-town-tells" he describes have been exhibited form the start of D1. The fact he is so confident in his Ran read when Ran's been incredibly scummy (he always is) makes me think that kuz has outside information that Ran is town (i.e Ran isn't on kuz's scumteam, ergo is town)

Same applies in the next point None of the bolded is explained.

Kuz says "oh yeah as scum why would I distract from an easy mislynch, makes no sense". I've basically touched on this and I already called him out for it. Firstly its stupid WIFOM, and secondly I used this exact line of reasoning to win Mafia Allstars as scum. lol.

Clearly its you using WIFOM though to defend yourself. Why did you do that?

Third time! Not explaining the main point

Each read kuz has had he's trying to make people work for him. Aside from the fact that at this stage in the game its completely unnecessary to make people jump through hoops like that. Its just a waste of time. He should just explain his reads and get on with it. I find the way he continues to try to play super IC a scum tell. Townkuz should be just getting down and scumhunting way more. When he directed Night actions at the end of D1 it was reall generic and not in any way useful. Advice dogging.

.


Kuz isn't refuting my points. He's just taking a very small part of them which he CAN defend against, and making a massive deal of proving that small part wrong, this is in order to give the appearance as though .

You draw an AA connection? Because I moved the wagon away from AA? I STARTED the AA wagon. lol.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Yes X1,' you STARTED the wagon' when kuz gave reasoning FOR the wagon.

Another thing, why hasn't aa voted you, huh? He has not even commented on you, just that he thinks kuz is town now..but you, he has nothing to say about, he wants to look like there aren't connections, and by avoiding you now, it makes seem like there aren't.

A townie has nothing to gain by avoiding players.

 

[X1-12]

Right, Next post. I'm scummy for changing my mind on kuz. Kuz is obviously exempt from this and is OK to hide his scumread on me until I accuse him of scum. Rest of this is the X1-AA connections so I'm skipping it.

@kuz: Answer #1147

Oh and by the way I made the same backup of Siekend in my 1202, which is the logical conclusion to make if you're not twisting it in a scummy manner but X1 only agreed with it when Seiknd brought it up himself. He is doing that to mitigate his relation with Seikend and persuade him to join my wagon.

Textbook scum play.

Its amazing how you instantly know exactly my intent from reading my posts. If you look at all my posts already having decided that I'm scum, then yeah you can probably twist everything to fit that theory.

I want to figure it out toMorrow in further detail after an X1 scum flip and the NK.

@kuz: Does this or does this not clearly imply that you expect to be alivtoMorrow? Answer this question unambigously with yes or no.

 

[th3kuzinator]

You STARTED the AA wagon and then promptly dropped him as one of your scumspects entirely.

Will respond to the large post later toNight when I have a computer.

 

[th3kuzinator]

@the last quote: unambiguously no. Duh.

Notice how I use the word "want" instead of "will" hence me wanting to analyze it toMorrow but implying I don't know if I'll be there.

Way to resort to petty semantics.

 

[th3kuzinator]

You also realize that in your 1248 you respond to about 1/4 of the stuff I have brought up on you (terribly, might I add) and then conclude your post with "Kuz is only responding so select bits of my case that he cam defend against."

I analysed every single paragraph in your case and responded to the bull thoroughly. You, on the other hand, focused on a sentence that you are trying to stretch to imply I know I will be alive toMorrow. Reach harder please. Then, the other stuff he concerns himself with is about validating his scum own meta to use against me. Way to sidestep all the actual lies and contradictions you made.

You yourself only responding to bits and pieces of my post is a contradiction in itself.

So scummy is hurts.

 

[X1-12]

Don't know why you had to avoid that question 2 or 3 times then.

@Kuz: You said in #1201 that you were gonna wait until you found out who my scumbuddies are, yet 2 and half hours later in #1202 you already have a convincing case that AA is scumbuddy? So you already are pretty sure me and AA were scumbuddies, but you chose to completely ignore me, and only attack AA? What did that gain? Why did you never attack me before I attacked you? You were sitting there thinking me and AA were scum together, but that it'd be a good idea not to ever mention me as a scumread until I attacked you, only attacking AA in a hope that'd reveal the last member of out scumteam?

Yes X1,' you STARTED the wagon' when kuz gave reasoning FOR the wagon.

Another thing, why hasn't aa voted you, huh? He has not even commented on you, just that he thinks kuz is town now..but you, he has nothing to say about, he wants to look like there aren't connections, and by avoiding you now, it makes seem like there aren't.

A townie has nothing to gain by avoiding players.

Clearly not true. I first pointed out contradictions in AA's play, kuz followed up on these.

Why hasn't AA voted me? Ask him, lol. I'd guess because he doesn't find me scummy.

Who will you look at on my town flip? What will you think of kuz


@kuz: I ignored the seik/you connections because I'm not focused on connections right now, I ignored you defending Seik because I don't care what you say about Seik because my case on him, he will defend against and based upon that I will make my judgement. I have FULLY countered all your relevant points. You have failed to explain ANY of the bolded of the last three quotes in #1248

 

[th3kuzinator]

Zzzzzz your reaching is getting annoying. Bull**** you countered all my points

Glad your push upon my phrasing of being alive tomorrow was fruitful, seems you dropped it immediately after realizing you couldn't beat me in word games.

You are desperatly trying to bring up petty points that that can be interpreted as scummy when put through your filter while you have largely ignored the important issues. When you realize one avenue of bull is useless you go somewhere else and try to defeat my diction instead pfthe actual meaning behind my posts.

Kind of dissappinted at your shabby defense. I thought scum X1 would have been able to make a defense that didn't involve taking desperate reaching shots at his opponent. Put in a better effort for the newbies.

 

[th3kuzinator]

But seriously, why nothing to say on my 1252? I'm sure you can further twist that to make an argument I know I'm going to be alive toMorrow.

Go on, it's all you have going for you.

 

[X1-12]

Firstly have the decency not to make this personal please.

You do know you are going to be alive toMorrow, but going on at it is only going to result in useless back and forth of "NO U" which I'm not going to continue.


Respond to all the bolded parts of these. You ignored them and ignored them again when I called you out. They're hardly petty points at all..

Again, X1 knows I do this stuff as town and he witnessed it and MLd me in a previous game where I did it. No way he doesn't remember. X1 then tries to use some of his own scummeta to convict me...

Who. The. ****. Does. That?

This is what I did as scum and it worked therefore this is what Kuz would do as scum. I feel like Dark Horse in here but thats such a fallacy I can't even tell you.

I explain why its scummy. Its because of the way you carried it out. You nicely ignored all that and just jumped on the fact I used an example calling it a logical fallacy. You didn't explain or defend against any of the bolded part

Yup, its scummy. Not because I think Ran is scum, but because the way he did it was scummy. If a town player thought Ran was town, he'd just push away from Ran, attacking the scumpicks instead. Kuz didn't do that, he made a big charade of specifically defending Ran, making sure everyone saw him do it. I used this exact strategy to win the game as scum in Newbie 11 (Gova would tell you if he hadn't been NK'ed). I cleared Dourin as basically town on D1 (?????Because why would scum ever do that???). Also if he could truly read Ran from meta he'd know it from the start of the game, the "Ran-town-tells" he describes have been exhibited form the start of D1. The fact he is so confident in his Ran read when Ran's been incredibly scummy (he always is) makes me think that kuz has outside information that Ran is town (i.e Ran isn't on kuz's scumteam, ergo is town)

Same applies in the next point None of the bolded is explained.

Kuz says "oh yeah as scum why would I distract from an easy mislynch, makes no sense". I've basically touched on this and I already called him out for it. Firstly its stupid WIFOM, and secondly I used this exact line of reasoning to win Mafia Allstars as scum. lol.

Clearly its you using WIFOM though to defend yourself. Why did you do that?

Third time! Not explaining the main point

Each read kuz has had he's trying to make people work for him. Aside from the fact that at this stage in the game its completely unnecessary to make people jump through hoops like that. Its just a waste of time. He should just explain his reads and get on with it. I find the way he continues to try to play super IC a scum tell. Townkuz should be just getting down and scumhunting way more. When he directed Night actions at the end of D1 it was reall generic and not in any way useful. Advice dogging.

.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

@X1 that's nice, point something out and then not lead on it, go away for awhile, make a bull**** case on kuz and seikend, get called out for it, try and get seikend on your side even after making a case, throw aa in there again stating you were the one who started the wagon , and now spread More wifom stating you will flip town, kuz will survive the night, use your own meta to call kuz scum, and that's just the beginning.

Lol, die scum.

Daykill:X1-12

 

[th3kuzinator]

It's not back and forth NOU WIFOM. You simply can't push that avenue any further because my diction prevents you from twisting any further.

I already said I would respond to the big post when I get access to a computer.

 

[th3kuzinator]

Oh hi dayvig.

Bye scumX1.

 

[X1-12]

lol at dayvig

Soup you are tunnelling massively and have already decided that I'm scum, so every post I make you try to twist to fit that ideal. It is back and forth. I believe your post strongly indicates you expect to be alive the next Day, you don't. Me stating I'll flip town isn't WIFOM. you refusing to answer the questions about my town-flip is anti-town though, you're also doing the exact same as kuz in that assuming because I used an example of where I did said action as scum, that my point doesn't stand. The idea that I was trying to get Seikend on my side is also UTTER crap because I'd already stated that in #1210 I only skimmed kuz's posts, but I had read Seik's post defending himself. I conceded to Seik's defence because I saw it first. You say I pointed out AA but didn't follow it up? Back that up with quotes? I suspected AA for contradictions and kept him as a scumpick, lol.

@kuz:When you respond make sure you get all the questions I've asked you, and explain why you didn't respond to the bolded parts that I re-quoted in #1257

 

[th3kuzinator]

So now Soup's posts ALSO indicate to you that he ALSO expects to be around toMorrow? Zzzzzz

Do you still maintain scumsoup or have you flip flopped already like you did on Seikend?

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

So, X1, which one of us is going to die?

Me, or kuz?

 

[Fynal]

...wow. just got home, finished homework, and skimmed. this has gotten vicious...

i note how much more X1 has started posting since he got attacked. like 100 times more. iirc, putting self-preservation over scumhunting is scumtell. Got a reason X1?

going to have to re-read more carefully before i vote...

 

[th3kuzinator]

@fynal: where did you hear about that scumtell? You're right but I was just curious where and how you came across it.

 

[Fynal]

soup looking a little townier. JTB looking opportunistic.

not liking X1's flip-floppyness on AA/siek. Also where did X1 start the AA wagon? regardless of who provided the reasoning, i don't see it at all. X1 can you point it out to me?


@kuz: im pretty sure i read it early on in this thread... coulda been on the wiki though, i've been trying to do a little bit of wiki-reading ever since that JTB thing

 

[X1-12]

So now Soup's posts ALSO indicate to you that he ALSO expects to be around toMorrow? Zzzzzz

Do you still maintain scumsoup or have you flip flopped already like you did on Seikend?

@Fynal: Obviously I have been defending myself, but if you pay attention I've been attacking kuz the whole way through my increased posting streak. I have been scumhunting. The AA flip-flopping doesn't exist, every time I've attacked him there's been scummier people to deal with. Same with Seik, I've just become more confident in kuzscum.

Fynal explain your SoupTown read. Also explain what you will think of kuz upon my town flip.

lol at dayvig

Soup you are tunnelling massively and have already decided that I'm scum, so every post I make you try to twist to fit that ideal. It is back and forth. I believe your post strongly indicates kuz expects to be alive the next Day, you don't. Me stating I'll flip town isn't WIFOM. you refusing to answer the questions about my town-flip is anti-town though, you're also doing the exact same as kuz in that assuming because I used an example of where I did said action as scum, that my point doesn't stand. The idea that I was trying to get Seikend on my side is also UTTER crap because I'd already stated that in #1210 I only skimmed kuz's posts, but I had read Seik's post defending himself. I conceded to Seik's defence because I saw it first. You say I pointed out AA but didn't follow it up? Back that up with quotes? I suspected AA for contradictions and kept him as a scumpick, lol.

@kuz:When you respond make sure you get all the questions I've asked you, and explain why you didn't respond to the bolded parts that I re-quoted in #1257

Fixed this post. I said "you" instead of "kuz". Soup respond to this.

 

[TheBlueSpot]

So X1 - - - - - > Who do you have Scum read on, who do you have Town read on and Null read? Just wondering... Just so we know.

 

[X1-12]

yawn

Scum: Kuz

Scummy: Seik, Soup, AA

Townish: Fynal

Town: Ran

rest are null

 

[Seikend]

Kuz, I can see X1-scum but I feel AA is scummier.

What's your reasoning for linking X1 and AA?

 

[ranmaru]

Explain why you feel that way.

 

[Seikend]

Kuz has a lot of valid points against X1. The timing of his post on Kuz and me scum was horrendous, especially since he just said AA was fine a little earlier, just before a possible AA lynch. Him suddenly being fine with me was also eew. A lot of the points he's pushing are just dumb.

On the other hand, he had no interest in self-preservation to begin with until he was pushed to defend himself and I feel a couple of points against Kuz held some weight. Kuz holding back the Ran-town reasoning for so long in particular was bleh. I had to ask for it a couple of times.


AA has failed to really address X1/Kuz so far. His stance on X1 and Kuz isn't clear at all. Something about fruit analogies and saying one point against X1 was incorrect. Feels like he's trying to avoid commenting at all.

 

[th3kuzinator]

Which points held weight? Me holding off giving all my reads asap? I did this to get unbiased information from the people I was questioning. This information becomes tainted once you let on that you are suspicious of someone.

Ask JTB, I did the same thing in Dissidia. I had a guilty on him but held off from playing all my cards and buddied him to give me his reads untainted before outing him.

As for X1 having no self-preservation until being pressured, this literally means nothing. It is only natural to defend oneself when attacked. The thing that does bother me is that X1 has literally been a non-presence in this game except at key turning points. He was inactive all of D1 and only came active right before the deadline to try to swing the wagon towards Ranmaru but then ended up conceding to Swords.

He started off D2 with a Ranmaru vote and then went completely inactive during all my change of heart business right up until the point where the wagon started to swing towards aa. I saw him viewing the thread multiple times and days while the you were at L-2, Seikend. I noted it right here (noting how he had been lurking the thread but not contributing). He responded with this.

He was obviously uninterested with changing the flow of town's interest when the wagon was Ranmaru and the same thing when it was on you, Seikend. However, wagon swings to aa and suddenly he throws all his cards down on the table for no reason and tries to get everyone back on the Seikend/Kuz wagons. Bull****. And the thing is, he thinks aa is scummy which means he can't use the excuse that he thought town was going in the right direction (until aa) and thus he needed to intervene when necessary.

He didn't care about pushing for his main scumpicks and just let the rest of town do it for him until we started on aa. Then he suddenly felt the need to post all his information in a frantic attempt to save aa.

It is also true that aa has largely stayed away from commenting on any of this and he seems to be hiding in the shadows.

And thats not even the half of it. I am going to bring up the posts from X1's aa push during D1 which look so SvS its not even funny.

X1 is dying toDay. AA is dying toMorrow upon his scum flip.

 

[X1-12]

kuz that whole post is you attacking me for inactivity, for finding Ran scummier than Sword, and for finding you scummier than AA. None of those are scummy.

You haven't responded to my questions, or my points. Particularly you haven't explained AT ALL why you thought it would be a good idea not to mention me as a scumread for the whole game until I attacked you

 

[th3kuzinator]

You haven't responded to my questions, or my points. Particularly you haven't explained AT ALL why you thought it would be a good idea not to mention me as a scumread for the whole game until I attacked you

Me holding off giving all my reads asap? I did this to get unbiased information from the people I was questioning. This information becomes tainted once you let on that you are suspicious of someone.

Ask JTB, I did the same thing in Dissidia. I had a guilty on him but held off from playing all my cards and buddied him to give me his reads untainted before outing him.

Can you not read?

 

[X1-12]

all of these?

Yup, its scummy. Not because I think Ran is scum, but because the way he did it was scummy. If a town player thought Ran was town, he'd just push away from Ran, attacking the scumpicks instead. Kuz didn't do that, he made a big charade of specifically defending Ran, making sure everyone saw him do it.

Also if he could truly read Ran from meta he'd know it from the start of the game, the "Ran-town-tells" he describes have been exhibited form the start of D1. The fact he is so confident in his Ran read when Ran's been incredibly scummy (he always is) makes me think that kuz has outside information that Ran is town (i.e Ran isn't on kuz's scumteam, ergo is town)

Kuz says "oh yeah as scum why would I distract from an easy mislynch, makes no sense". I've basically touched on this and I already called him out for it. Firstly its stupid WIFOM,

@Kuz: You said in #1201 that you were gonna wait until you found out who my scumbuddies are, yet 2 and half hours later in #1202 you already have a convincing case that AA is scumbuddy? So you already are pretty sure me and AA were scumbuddies, but you chose to completely ignore me, and only attack AA? What did that gain? Why did you never attack me before I attacked you? You were sitting there thinking me and AA were scum together, but that it'd be a good idea not to ever mention me as a scumread until I attacked you, only attacking AA in a hope that'd reveal the last member of out scumteam?

 

[th3kuzinator]

kuz that whole post is you attacking me for inactivity, for finding Ran scummier than Sword, and for finding you scummier than AA. None of those are scummy.

Way to strawman my argument.

I am attacking you for unexcused inactivity except during key points of the game. You were lurking the thread not just being blatantly inactive. You only intervened when you had to save AA.

I can't believe you actually thought that post was just attacking you just for finding Swords scummier than Ran and me scummier than AA.

I even put the main message of the post in bold.

He didn't care about pushing for his main scumpicks and just let the rest of town do it for him until we started on aa. Then he suddenly felt the need to post all his information in a frantic attempt to save aa.

Reach harder.

 

[th3kuzinator]

Ill answer the stuff in your 1276 when you go back and answer all of your crap in 1202 and 1203.

And no, you havn't. You only targeted the stuff you could defend against, which was about 1/6 of it.

 

[X1-12]

I chose not to post = I'm scum? I have a life, I have school and other personal commitments. If you cared to look you would noticed that I've been inactive across my mafia games, not just in this one. Because I get time to look at the thread doesn't mean I have time to write a post.

You've just seen that I wasn't there or wasn't able to post, and decided that it means I'm scum and coasting? Thats bull****.

 

[ranmaru]

I chose not to post = I'm scum? I have a life, I have school and other personal commitments. If you cared to look you would noticed that I've been inactive across my mafia games, not just in this one. Because I get time to look at the thread doesn't mean I have time to write a post.

You've just seen that I wasn't there or wasn't able to post, and decided that it means I'm scum and coasting? Thats bull****.

Right right like you cared to look at all my games before stating that you believed I was scum for having little motivation.