Newbie Mafia 12 FMP Fumoffu!: Game over!

[th3kuzinator]

*shakes gova back and forth*

Come on, dude. You know me better than that.

 

[ranmaru]

That entire post is fluff.

Too bad for you. I wanted to give the newbies the right message. It also is related to Sword's play. I think you are relying on wikitells too much. (Really, how can you dismiss my post so easily? I am sure you didn't even read it)

Gova, do you agree with Swords conservative play? Can you also explain fluff to the newbies here too? So they can scumhunt on it themselves in the future.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Gova, I expect that detailed analysis on Ranmaru's post done in triplicate on my desk tomorrow by 8AM.

but what about spider-man?

@Sword i just don't like your play in general, at first i thought you were getting at something, but..you said you were just fluffing, and now, you really haven't done much, hell, you haven't even voted anyone?

 

[th3kuzinator]

Apparently there is a large post coming up where he will tell us all his stances and hopefully reveal the innerworkings of Sworddancer, the null tell machine.

 

[Gova]

Sorry, Kuz. I was in disbelief so I wasn't thinking clearly.

Too bad for you. I wanted to give the newbies the right message. It also is related to Sword's play. I think you are relying on wikitells too much. (Really, how can you dismiss my post so easily? I am sure you didn't even read it)

Gova, do you agree with Swords conservative play? Can you also explain fluff to the newbies here too? So they can scumhunt on it themselves in the future.

Wikitells what? I can dismiss your post because it's fluff and does not help me find scum. Lol @ you discrediting me by saying I didn't even read it. Your first question in the second paragraph is worthless as well. Whether or not I agree with how someone plays the game is irrelevant to finding scum.

Might as well, since we haven't gotten to it yet. Fluff is basically sizing up your posts to make it seem larger than it actually is to make it look like you're offering more content. It's basically fake contributing imo.

 

[Gova]

EBWOP

Worthless is a poor word choice on my part. That question really serves no purpose though.

 

[Fynal]

1. Meh. I was trying to be nice with AA, and to all newbies and general. As an IC, I'm trying to make this game look attrective to newbies. That's all. I didn't say why he was wrong because I didn't think to.

you are claiming here that yer doing yer job as an IC by making this game look attractive to newbies. is it not also an IC's job to help newbies get better at mafia? if so, why didn't you think to explain to aa why he was wrong, or explain why his thinking looked good to you, instead of just giving him a hollow complement?

some of aa's posts have made him look somewhat malleable in his opinions, for better or for worse, especially by people who he knows have experience. Were you trying to take advantage of this, or were you unaware, or what?

i want to be clear that i'm accusing sword of scummy use of IC, not of being a bad IC.

 

[th3kuzinator]

Is it not also an IC's job to help newbies get better at mafia? if so, why didn't you think to explain to aa why he was wrong, or explain why his thinking looked good to you, instead of just giving him a hollow complement?

We'll make a mafia player out of you yet!

Glad a newbie picked up on this.

 

[ranmaru]

Sorry, Kuz. I was in disbelief so I wasn't thinking clearly.



Wikitells what? I can dismiss your post because it's fluff and does not help me find scum. Lol @ you discrediting me by saying I didn't even read it. Your first question in the second paragraph is worthless as well. Whether or not I agree with how someone plays the game is irrelevant to finding scum.

Might as well, since we haven't gotten to it yet. Fluff is basically sizing up your posts to make it seem larger than it actually is to make it look like you're offering more content. It's basically fake contributing imo.

It wasn't for you, it was for the newbs. Of course, how would I know you read it without your acknowledgement of my points?

Seriously. You and I are SE's here, so I don't think it will hurt to post something helpful to them. Really I think you are only playing as if you were in a normal game.

Can you explain why it is worthless, and why newbs should avoid that? Thank you.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

1. Meh. I was trying to be nice with AA, and to all newbies and general. As an IC, I'm trying to make this game look attrective to newbies. That's all. I didn't say why he was wrong because I didn't think to.

soo...you were trying to be nice to aa...that's a cool gesture i suppose?

don't you think it'd be more attrective if you helped the newbies out instead, how are you being nice to aa when you basically go "you're wrong, but i'm not gonna say why, sorry. sad face."

"you're stupid."
"why am i stupid?"
"because you're stupid.'
"that doesn't explain anything."
"figure it out yourself."

that's real nice Sword.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Really I think you are only playing as if you were in a normal game.

for the love of god.

you are in a normal game, with newbies, the only difference is that there's IC's and they help newbies, but that doesn't mean you spoon-feed them, do some scum-hunting on your own.

 

[ranmaru]

i want to be clear that i'm accusing sword of scummy use of IC, not of being a bad IC.

I think his play is more likely bad IC play, than scummy play. I have played with him before, and he has made stances as scum. Yet him playing scummy is an option. Let's see what stances he stirs up.

 

[ranmaru]

This is a newbie game, Soup. *facepalm* And I am scumhunting.

 

[Gova]

It wasn't for you, it was for the newbs. Of course, how would I know you read it without your acknowledgement of my points?

Seriously. You and I are SE's here, so I don't think it will hurt to post something helpful to them. Really I think you are only playing as if you were in a normal game.

Can you explain why it is worthless, and why newbs should avoid that? Thank you.

Then why would try and discredit me by saying I didn't even read it? If that post was helpful, explain what it accomplished then. This is a normal game and the only thing that seperates this game from others is that the player list is mostly people that haven't played before. The question serves no purpose because whether or not I like a person's playstyle has no relevancy to finding scum.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

This is a newbie game, Soup. *facepalm* And I am scumhunting.

no, half of the time you are fluffing with posting stuff for the newbies, this is good and all, but seriously.

it almost seems like you want to be the good guy, "i love everyone here."

 

[ranmaru]

@Gova:

Because you dismissed it as fluff, and I asked you to address which points you thought were fluff. I wanted to see acknowledgment of you reading it.

The post would diminish the wrong idea of IC's in newbies heads. There are different kinds of IC's, and one IC shouldn't be condemned as scum for his aggressive nature, or conservative nature. People have to think deeply about that IC's actions, or lack of actions.

Onto Swords. Swords is conservative by nature, yet he hasn't given any stances. This is the only thing that can be labeled as scummy, and now we must look carefully at the stances he will put on to the table.

Also, Kuz asked me my thoughts on Sword, and #635 was what I came up with.

 

[th3kuzinator]

Onto Swords. Swords is conservative by nature, yet he hasn't given any stances. This is the only thing that can be labeled as scummy, and now we must look carefully at the stances he will put on to the table.

 

[Gova]

@Ran, all of it is fluff.

And if Swords is being "condemned" it's because people think he's scummy. Playstyle may or may not factor into this.

 

[JTB]

what happened to dat sword stance post that was coming up? =\

 

[TheBlueSpot]

Does anyone else feel that Ran is really pushing his position to hard to be considered sincere? I mean if your town your scum hunting, the fact that he has repeatedly claimed that he is scum hunting seems to suspicious to me.
Anyone else feel the same way or am I missing something?

 

[X1-12]

@Ran, I mean no offence by this but you are not in a position to tell people how to IC, nor to say what they should and shouldn't do as an IC. That post is a waste of time. Just play the game, not try to teach people stuff or act like an IC because you're not one. Your SE role does not put a responsibility or burden upon you to act in a certain way, so just play the game. Please do not discuss this issue any further

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

Okay, I actually really don't have time for this right now.

@MOD: Request Replacement

Sorry guys, but I'm simply way too swamped to be focusing on two newbie games at the same time. I have two research papers due soon which I hardly have even started on, and I'm behind on my homework. Last Night, I spent hours on this game simply rereading to come up with my read on JTB, and making those two big posts. That is time that I could of and should of been spent studying. So yeah, IRL stuff > mafia.

Anyways though, before I leave, I'll go on and give my stances on everyone this game up until this point as I said I would.

X1 is looking town . . . ish. His posts are nice but he seems a bit removed from the conversation. Still probably town but keep your eye out on him, because a scum X1 is a dangerous thing.

Ran is null-town (yes, I'm changing it). I agree that the namedrop was rather suspicious. A couple of useless posts but tbh I kinda get the feeling that that's just Ran. I do think he's legit trying, just going about it in all the wrong ways.

I'm suspicious of Gova. Upon further inspection, I find that a lot of his posts are empty. Plus, I think he's taking a fairly easy position with pressure on JTB. I'm mean yes I agree that JTB's "advice dogging" is suspicious, but Gova has not called anyone out on anything else, besides maybe Ran who he thought to be have a connection with JTb. Also, calling someone out on advice dogging is a fairly easy thing to do. Not total scum, but should be looked into.

Out of all of the inactives, I get the feeling that TBS is the most likely to actually be coasting, since he is posting but rather infrequently. Overal, he hasn't provided much. Would be okay with seeing him going toDay, if not to just get rid of an inactive.

JTB is looking townish to me. I think AA layed out the best case as to why. With the exception of his earlier advice dogging, I think most of the cases agaisnt him are weakish.

Fynal could def be scum. I like his early play, and I think his case on me is legit, but there are some other things about him that I don't like. I don't like how he put JTB at L_1 while realizing the implications that might come from it. I also don't like how he played the noob card a lot after he was called out on this. Would also be okay with him going toDay.

Seik I'm going null-town on as of now. He has been wagon hopping A LOT, for weak reasoning. I aprreciate his brutal honesty, and as much as I know he's going to hate me judging his play off of this, I really do believe that him not knowing what to do is a noobie town tell.

Gatlin/Soren are simlply inactive and cannot be judged at this point.

Soupa is looking town.

AA I'm null on. Earlier X1 said that he thought AA was being too agreeable. I haven't looked into this myself but I def endorse others looking into this, because I feel that it's a pretty legit noobie scum tell.

So yeah, that's it. Sorry if I offened anyone by delibertly down playing for the newbies. But yeah, can't fix that now I guess.

Anyways, peace, I'm out.

 

[JTB]

@IC's, in the event that someone that is currently under pressure subs out, what is the best way to go about things? Do you still consider the playerslot to be scummy or do you give the person replacing in a chance to redeem themselves?

 

[th3kuzinator]

Kool that he leaves out my name specifically.

Wonder if he thought that would convict me upon him scum flip.

 

[X1-12]

kuz are you with me in seeing the JTB/Swords connection?

 

[th3kuzinator]

Its plausible.

 

[Seikend]

Ughh I do hate that stance on me. I'm not going to learn to play if I'm just left off the hook for anything I do wrong :/.

 

[X1-12]

you should get better out of desire not to suck then


wow that was brutal, but players shouldn't attack you for being noob town so you get better.

 

[Seikend]

you should get better out of desire not to suck then


wow that was brutal, but players shouldn't attack you for being noob town so you get better.

Other people's stance on you is a gauge of how well you're doing.

Obviously I want to get better. But If I'm just being told I'm noob-town for my honesty then I'm not being pushed on what I'm doing wrong.

Another example. I voted Fynal for what I thought was a scumtell. No one pushes my reasoning until I pose the question myself. If I'm not being told I'm wrong, how can I know I am?

If my mistakes aren't being pushed, then I don't know what my mistakes are.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Soren has requested a replacement due to lack of computer access for a while.

 

[X1-12]

Arbitrary questions time! I've only skimmed the thread

@IC's, in the event that someone that is currently under pressure subs out, what is the best way to go about things? Do you still consider the playerslot to be scummy or do you give the person replacing in a chance to redeem themselves?

Feel free to pressure the replacement. Don't expect them to be able to fully explain the actions of the player they replaced, but on the other hand don't forgot the scummy things their slot has done.

@Seikend: What do you expect people to do? Play against their wincon to point out mistakes? No. Wait until post game and ask for critique or post in the critique thread. The thing about Fynal was just me not being active enough to tell you that you're wrong.

@Gova: Please give me a read on AA based on these two posts. Scum caught in an awkward lie or genuine town misunderstanding. (post1, post2)

@Seikend: When Gova has answered the above question, tell me if you agree/disagree and why

@The Blue Spot: Tell me whether you think the following things are a good idea or not. Please think through your answer before responding, then give reasons for your answers

1.) Agreeing to No Lynch on Day 1
2.) On D1 lynching the player who has benefited town the least
3.) On D1 lynching the player who could be the biggest potential threat to town.

Also then tell me your read on Sword. Do you think him replacing out reflects his alignment? Was he trying to escape pressure? Do you think JTB's question here was him looking for an excuse to relieve the pressure on his scummate Sword?

 

[X1-12]

Also @AsianAussie: I want you to analyse, in depth, the next post JTB makes which is longer than 4 lines or so. Go into as much detail as you can

 

[Gova]

X1, you linked to the same post twice.

 

[X1-12]

my bad, should be #246 and #553

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=12468033&postcount=246
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=12478544&postcount=553

 

[X1-12]

Also Gova is town.

 

[Seikend]

@Seikend: What do you expect people to do? Play against their wincon to point out mistakes? No. Wait until post game and ask for critique or post in the critique thread. The thing about Fynal was just me not being active enough to tell you that you're wrong.

Fair enough. Just didn't feel like I was involved in the game, especially when I have to ask if I'm wrong. But eh. I'll drop it.

 

[JTB]

Why exactly am I being seen as scummates with Swords?

 

[X1-12]

If you are town, why does it matter?

 

[JTB]

Because you have brought it up several times so far and if it helps town, then it's information that we should know.

It doesn't matter if it was me you were thinking scummy with someone else, if I see someone drawing connections between two players and I don't see those connections, I'm going to ask about them.

 

[TheBlueSpot]

@X1 if there is no hard evidence I may say no lynch due to the fact that we do not want to risk loosing a Townie on the first day. And the odds are higher that we pick a townie than a Mafia due to the fact that there are no townies. However I do not think we should go with a no vote just yet, we should play the whole Day out, and see if there are any major tells.
Now I don't know what a major tell is, this is my first game of Mafia and I have really read no others, When I play mafia in IR I usually die because people are jealous of my good looks (JK). But I do usually get killed due to well IDK what.
@Sword I have been coasting because my laptop is almost always open when I'm taking notes or doing HW, I didn't have many questions to answer and don't know much about tells or scummy looking posts. I am a complete newbie.

Now for the general comments, I still think that Ran is playing a dangerous game with the way he talks, however that may just be my newbie read. However I was also thinking that swords might be in cahoots with Ran an thus is protecting him before bouncing. I am also wary of Kuz, he seems to be charging forth with some strong accusations, and while he has his MVP dice I am worried of him taking a lot of charge and may be scum. Now there is no reason to think this besides Kuz is Kuz and anyone who knows Kuz knows that they never know. I know to much knows, it was a little confusing but hey that's all cool.

For now I am going to stick with my vote on Ran if he clams up then there is reason to believe he is scum, if he talks profusely then he may give a tell or he may prove his innocence anyone the more he talks the more we know.
Again sorry about the not much posting if you ask questions I will be happy to answer, but I have yet to figure out how to read the finer details in the posts.