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Newbie 15 - Betty Crocker Mafia - Game Over!

Gova

I'm goin' for it!
Joined
Jul 16, 2008
Messages
1,274
Location
Austin, TX
NNID
Takicodos
1. Terywj (2) MM, AA
2. Sokr ()
3. Serin (2) Ori, Sokr,
4. John2k4 ()
5. asianaussie (1) John
6. Ori_Bro ()
7. Matathonmann ()
8. Gheb ()
9. Sold2 ()

Not voting - Gheb, Tery, S2, Serin

With 9 playing, it takes 5 to lynch!

Deadline is November 17th at 11:59 PM CST (GMT-6)!
 

Ori_bro

ignite the fire
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Mar 6, 2008
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Ori, what do you think of the suspicion on you because of your wording?
I think its because I'm probably posting a lot and I'm saying my stances/opinions on things, but people could be interpreting it as scum like behavior.

so many FoS's
Its D1 everyone has them.
ori seems awfully focused on surviving, but that's wifom/newbie psych at this point in the game, not getting anything from it
Kinda :urg: since I'm actually talking the most here I'm kinda under the impression the mafia will target me night 1.



But yeah, since I won't be able to check this thread for a time frame of 3-6 hours. I'll post up on my other potential scum reads (in no particular order).
- John2k4
- Sokr


Theres my spoiler list, what do you guys think? Sokr/John are you suprised I have you on this list?
 

DtJ S2n

Stardog Champion
BRoomer
Joined
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INKY
you don't want your reads and cases to die with you.
Entirely true. You never know who the scum is going to pick. Even if you're a strong player, perhaps the scum really wants to kill the watcher/tracker and thinks you're not it, or they have too many connections to you.

On the subject of FoS's. FoSes are mostly used to mark that you had suspicion of someone at that time, so that later you can show people a paper trail of your reads and stuff, and when your vote is already being used on a better target. Votes are almost always better to use than FoS's. By putting a vote on someone, you get a reaction from them. FoS's can be easily ignored.
NO god dangit. I was hoping so hard that this word would never make an appearance. And now I have to explain it.
http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=WIFOM
WIFOM is... god dang how do I even explain it. Just read the article and get back to me if you don't understand it. WIFOM is something generally used by scum to sweep away evidence, like the significance of night kills.

I'm happy with your picks Ori. But what you've gotta do is put some reasoning behind those, even if it's obvious. Also I believe Marathonmann wanted you to talk about if you believe it has any weighing on our alignment.
 

Terywj [태리]

Charismatic Maknae~
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Messages
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香港 & 서울
Ori_bro, I think you're overly concerned with this. You have made some good ground in terms of talking and connections, and since you have listed picks, town can work off of that in mind if you end up as the kill target.
 

John2k4

The End of an Era
Joined
Aug 28, 2011
Messages
8,989
Part of the reason people have been targeting you, Ori, is because many of your posts have been.....peculiar. Can't quote properly via phone, but small things like your wording initially implied that you would like D1 to end as fast as possible, and didn't care one bit who the D1 lynch was, or whether they were town or scum.
-
As for your reads...'Surprised' isn't exactly my feeling towards it, but I'm curious as to what I did/posted to get me on that list. :)

:phone:
 

John2k4

The End of an Era
Joined
Aug 28, 2011
Messages
8,989
@Tery - it's been in every votecount so far...just look at the bottom of #162.
(It's November 17. :p)

:phone:
 

John2k4

The End of an Era
Joined
Aug 28, 2011
Messages
8,989
I'll get details later when I can get to my notes, but Tery is striking me as town, and Sokr is a null.

:phone:
 

DtJ S2n

Stardog Champion
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Hey Sold, what do you think about Serin and Asianaussie?

@Mod: When is D1 deadline?
Deadline is the 17th.

And, oho! Someone finally asks me my opinion. Serin is alright, though he's definitely someone I'm watching closely. He hasn't done anything to really make me think of him either alignment, and that's what actually worries me. As always, it could just be something about a newbie who doesn't want to mess up or isn't exactly sure what to do, and is therefore just playing safe, but I dunno. It's just something that takes time to see where this goes.

AA has been kinda "advice dogging." That's exactly what it sounds like. His biggest stance thus far has been his vote on you which I don't really know what that was about. Would like to see him follow up on that. Other than that he's kinda avoided all relevant discussion in this game. That might be a timezone problem for him, since I know that it is difficult to comment on events that happen while you're not online. Actually I'll go ahead and vote: AsianAussie. Would like to see your explanation for the Tery vote and/or maybe some comments on what's happened this far.

It's a newbie game and it's only 3 days into D1 so it's not really surprising to see this.
 

Terywj [태리]

Charismatic Maknae~
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And, oho! Someone finally asks me my opinion. Serin is alright, though he's definitely someone I'm watching closely. He hasn't done anything to really make me think of him either alignment, and that's what actually worries me. As always, it could just be something about a newbie who doesn't want to mess up or isn't exactly sure what to do, and is therefore just playing safe, but I dunno. It's just something that takes time to see where this goes.

AA has been kinda "advice dogging." That's exactly what it sounds like. His biggest stance thus far has been his vote on you which I don't really know what that was about. Would like to see him follow up on that. Other than that he's kinda avoided all relevant discussion in this game. That might be a timezone problem for him, since I know that it is difficult to comment on events that happen while you're not online. Actually I'll go ahead and vote: AsianAussie. Would like to see your explanation for the Tery vote and/or maybe some comments on what's happened this far.

It's a newbie game and it's only 3 days into D1 so it's not really surprising to see this.
I can agree with this as a whole.
 

Sokr

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 28, 2011
Messages
202
But yeah, since I won't be able to check this thread for a time frame of 3-6 hours. I'll post up on my other potential scum reads (in no particular order).
- John2k4
- Sokr


Theres my spoiler list, what do you guys think? Sokr/John are you suprised I have you on this list?
I am indeed. Mind elaborating?

:phone:
 

~ Gheb ~

Life is just a party
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Vote ORI_bro

It surprises me how people became suspicious of him for faulty reasons, let off again and entirely failed to understand what's truly remarkable about the way he plays. It's not his clumsy wording that should leave a bad taste in people's mouths but his attempts to justify lackluster reads by downplaying the whole state of the game as RVS. One scummy implication of the way he plays is that he can make claims about his "reads" [being willing to push Serin, having Sokr and John on his scumlists, ...] but also discard all accountability whenever the situation calls for it [like he actually already did]. Yet at the same time he decides to stick with these "reads" anyway as if they were serious.

So my question is: What are we supposed to believe? Is it RVS and are you just randomly pushing people or are you serious about your reads? If it's the former then you need to explain why you're adamantly sticking to your reads right now when the pushes are supposed to be random. If it's the latter then you owe an explanation on your scum reads.

:059:
 

~ Gheb ~

Life is just a party
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Ori_bro, I think you're overly concerned with this. You have made some good ground in terms of talking and connections, and since you have listed picks, town can work off of that in mind if you end up as the kill target.
That's not a good thing, you know. If it requires a player's death for his reads to become useful - reads that he didn't even explain! - then it's obvious that something's not correct. For all we know, there is nothing that can keep him from forming more credible arguments that could allow us to make better reads without his death. He should make himself useful in a way that doesn't require causalities for us, otherwise we'd have to deal with a dumb WIFOM situation.

:059:
 

Terywj [태리]

Charismatic Maknae~
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That's not a good thing, you know. If it requires a player's death for his reads to become useful - reads that he didn't even explain! - then it's obvious that something's not correct. For all we know, there is nothing that can keep him from forming more credible arguments that could allow us to make better reads without his death. He should make himself useful in a way that doesn't require causalities for us, otherwise we'd have to deal with a dumb WIFOM situation.

:059:
I thought that was already implied with my post.
 

o-Serin-o

I think 56 nights crazy
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It's not his clumsy wording that should leave a bad taste in people's mouths but his attempts to justify lackluster reads by downplaying the whole state of the game as RVS.
I was just going to say this. I was re reading over posts and this hits it on the head.

However, I've already let his abysmal wordplay go (as far as making reads off of it). He's previously stated that the game was still in RVS, though I figure we've made enough of a read on most of the people playing to make actually assumptions.

Just saying.

:phone:
 

Ori_bro

ignite the fire
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Home from my 3 hour Art class, time to respond. Also I'm pretty sure we are in nearling the end of RVS. We have the claims at hand. Its just no one is really voting or putting stances on those who are

*cracks knuckles*

I'm happy with your picks Ori. But what you've gotta do is put some reasoning behind those, even if it's obvious.
I shall, I will be replying to why I believe Sokr is scum later on in this post. I want to know your stance on the people I am looking at.

Also I believe Marathonmann wanted you to talk about if you believe it has any weighing on our alignment.
I'll have to go look back for his post.


Ori_bro, I think you're overly concerned with this. You have made some good ground in terms of talking and connections, and since you have listed picks, town can work off of that in mind if you end up as the kill target.
Overly concerned with what? The people I'm targeting. I'm the only one who has made a push and has backed his claim up (even though it hasn't been a lot.).

Also, I'm glad I can help, who are you looking at as potential scum?

Part of the reason people have been targeting you, Ori, is because many of your posts have been.....peculiar. Can't quote properly via phone, but small things like your wording initially implied that you would like D1 to end as fast as possible, and didn't care one bit who the D1 lynch was, or whether they were town or scum.
Yes, i know that the way I worded that one post was peculiar. I actually like D1 to be long. I guess the reason I seem so "rushed" is that right now no one is speaking their mind, kinda. No one is making any sort of movement for who they believe is scum. This is RVS, why is no one actually spitting a RV out?


As for your reads...'Surprised' isn't exactly my feeling towards it, but I'm curious as to what I did/posted to get me on that list. :)
I am indeed. Mind elaborating?
For you John, it was your lackluster-ness in the beginning. You had your RV and that was it. There was nothing in what you have posted that convinced me that I could agree with you if you made a claim right now. I know this sounds like an odd reasoning, but this is a game about building trust even though 2 people are trying to be deceitful while building trust. I'm just not seeing it with your posts.

For you Sokr, you are kinda in the same boat. You really didn't give off a attitude that you are looking forward to this game. You were really quiet (post wise) and reminded me a lot of what I was like when I did my first forum mafia and I was a mafia member. I tried to keep quiet and avoid posting much because I didn't want people to instantly spot me as a mafia member. You seem to be doing everything I was doing and that is what is leading me on as you being scum.


I want you both to remember that even though you are on the suspicion list, it doesn't mean I want you lynched at the drop of a dime. The way you guys started this game gave me these impressions c:


Vote ORI_bro

It surprises me how people became suspicious of him for faulty reasons, let off again and entirely failed to understand what's truly remarkable about the way he plays. It's not his clumsy wording that should leave a bad taste in people's mouths but his attempts to justify lackluster reads by downplaying the whole state of the game as RVS. One scummy implication of the way he plays is that he can make claims about his "reads" [being willing to push Serin, having Sokr and John on his scumlists, ...] but also discard all accountability whenever the situation calls for it [like he actually already did]. Yet at the same time he decides to stick with these "reads" anyway as if they were serious.
I guess this is what I get for trying to be more a more active poster :L I will admit that my wording could have been a **** ton better lol, I will try to be more clear so my posts don't get misinterpreted.

I like to look at this line "but also discard all accountability whenever the situation calls for it [like he actually already did]."

I'm pretty sure this line is looking at Post #130.

I guess, unless people have a better random vote and someone is much closer to being lynched.
Once I posted this, the post immediately following it had and *or that was to replace the and.

I'd be an idiot if I believe my claim isn't as good as the next guy's. I have a backbone and I can stick to my claim if need be. If some one has a claim and it looks legit, I will show support for my fellow townie. Thats what I was trying so say in that post.


So my question is: What are we supposed to believe? Is it RVS and are you just randomly pushing people or are you serious about your reads? If it's the former then you need to explain why you're adamantly sticking to your reads right now when the pushes are supposed to be random. If it's the latter then you owe an explanation on your scum reads.

:059:
Despite it being my RVS vote, I am convinced that Serin could be scum. (70/30 scum).

Besides, what pushes other than myself am I supposed to agree with? besides my own the only other vote being tossed around is one for myself.


As far as I'm concerned with everyone voting for me, post #144 is the best one.





/end response.

Now to lurk here and study for a Japanese exam.
 

Ori_bro

ignite the fire
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usually by lurking i mean ill check every once and a while but not post. I need to focus on my Japanese exam so I won't be posting much today.

Serin, I'll get back to you when I'm not focusing on Japanese.
 

~ Gheb ~

Life is just a party
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I guess this is what I get for trying to be more a more active poster :L I will admit that my wording could have been a **** ton better lol, I will try to be more clear so my posts don't get misinterpreted.
The thing is that I didn't misinterpret anything you said. Take a good look at my post again: I even mentioned explicitly that accusations based on your poor wording are faulty. Not only did you not respond to my point, you actually responded to a point that I distanced myself from. You just told me the complete opposite of what you were supposed to explain.

Despite it being my RVS vote, I am convinced that Serin could be scum. (70/30 scum).
So how come you are convinced that he *could* be scum more so than anybody else? Anybody *could* be scum at this point! Randomly slapping a ratio onto your read doesn't make it a credible statement all of a sudden. As long as you don't explain what your scum read is based on claiming a "70/30" ratio is just as worthless as claiming a "100/0" ratio. Tell me how and why you've come to the conclusion that he's more likely to be scum than anybody else, everything else doesn't make me believe your read.

Besides, what pushes other than myself am I supposed to agree with? besides my own the only other vote being tossed around is one for myself.
A push doesn't just appear out of the thin air. It happens because somebody takes the initiative. If you're dissatisfied with people thinking you're scum respond to the accusations. If you think a Serin lynch is likely to give us a scum flip tell us why we should buy your story. This isn't a game of following people around ... in the very first post I made after the game started I told you to stand by your own ideas - complaining that nobody offers reads that you can agree with doesn't go along well with that attitude. If you don't see anybody making a credible push MAKE ONE YOURSELF.

:059:
 

DtJ S2n

Stardog Champion
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Ori_bro, to my knowledge--redirect to Sold if needed, but admitting to lurking is never good.
Eh. It really depends on the situation, but it kinda doesn't matter.

Glad to see the Gheb exists. Good case. I don't personally agree with Oriscum with what he's done thus far, but it is something that's got to be discussed.

As for Ori's push on Sokr, I think Sokr has been good, but reserved, thus far. It's not a bad place to start but I'm unconvinced of anything.

I really just want AA to get back. Timezones are dumb.
 

asianaussie

Smash Hero
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Mar 14, 2008
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sorry sold, my post up and disappeared and i was recreating it

@sold: yeah I was advice dogging for a good period (everything before my 'yesterday') and fluffing too, but that was because there wasn't a good deal to pursue then. Yesterday I was out shopping + swimming and then friends came over, so I was reduced to incredibly meagre posts, though I do now know ori is surprisingly confident (if not borderline arrogant) about his reads, just from his response to the last sentence I posted before going to bed.

unvote

I think its because I'm probably posting a lot and I'm saying my stances/opinions on things, but people could be interpreting it as scum like behavior.
This is more like town behaviour, dunno why you're so paranoid about this part of your play unless you yourself think the stances/opinions/posts are fluffy.

Kinda :urg: since I'm actually talking the most here I'm kinda under the impression the mafia will target me night 1.
Why? A smart scum team would target either someone who hasn't talked or an IC, if they're jerks. Unless you're somehow spot on with your reads, which I'll get to in a sec.

Yes, i know that the way I worded that one post was peculiar. I actually like D1 to be long. I guess the reason I seem so "rushed" is that right now no one is speaking their mind, kinda. No one is making any sort of movement for who they believe is scum. This is RVS, why is no one actually spitting a RV out?
What? Do you mean following up on RVs? How does one follow up on something chosen randomly and not taken seriously?

For you John, it was your lackluster-ness in the beginning. You had your RV and that was it. There was nothing in what you have posted that convinced me that I could agree with you if you made a claim right now. I know this sounds like an odd reasoning, but this is a game about building trust even though 2 people are trying to be deceitful while building trust. I'm just not seeing it with your posts.
I wouldn't agree with you if you made a claim right now, not with your 'spoiler list' tease - came across not only as deceptive but also a tad arrogant about lynches, a simple 'ill give my reads when i have them backed up' would've been fine. For that matter, I see no reason to trust you right now. John was lackluster in the beginning, but so was I. So is Marathon.

For you Sokr, you are kinda in the same boat. You really didn't give off a attitude that you are looking forward to this game. You were really quiet (post wise) and reminded me a lot of what I was like when I did my first forum mafia and I was a mafia member. I tried to keep quiet and avoid posting much because I didn't want people to instantly spot me as a mafia member. You seem to be doing everything I was doing and that is what is leading me on as you being scum.
You're doing everything I did in my first game as scum - flowery language, long multi-quoted posts, insertion of non-relevance/irl excuses to make the frequency of posts seem more casual. This isn't a lie, you can go check my first-ever game. What say you to this?

This reasoning feels flimsy, because it is. Feels like two gut reads you had thrown out to make people feel as if you had stances and opinions, then backed up with lack of contribution/gut feels respectively. John has since contributed fairly well. Sokr idk.

gheb said:
So my question is: What are we supposed to believe? Is it RVS and are you just randomly pushing people or are you serious about your reads? If it's the former then you need to explain why you're adamantly sticking to your reads right now when the pushes are supposed to be random. If it's the latter then you owe an explanation on your scum reads.
i feel this still applies, and that your explanation doesn't cut it. I want the pressure kept on Ori, since it feels he talks more when that happens.

Marathonman is possible scum, replies only when spoken to, makes very general comments that 'go with the crowd', to use his own words. What's interesting is that he implies 'going with the crowd' is scummy, but then writes it off as newb behaviour. Is this reluctance to take a stance? Is this covering for his own behaviour?

vote: Marathonman

also sokr, could you explain why you voted ori and why serin isn't scum (even if it was a RVS vote)?
 

asianaussie

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Oh, and my Tery vote was bleh, mainly because he was making a fuss over things like asking for the definition of FoS's, irrelevant now.

Also because he's Aizen and Aizen needs to die.
 

Sokr

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 28, 2011
Messages
202
@asianaussie

I don't think Serin is scum yet because he hasn't posted anything that would cause me to think so. He's null for me at the moment.

And Ori was an RVS vote.
 

Sokr

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 28, 2011
Messages
202
Unvote

Incase anyone's wondering this is because I said why I did my last vote and now that everyone knows, it will serve no more of a purpose.

Ori, what are your thoughts on Gheb?
 

asianaussie

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I have a fos on ori and that's about it.

Ori because of the whole keeping his thoughts hidden thing.

For what it is (or isn't) worth:

FOS: Ori
'im ok with this, seems like a newbie who doesn't want to come on as too strong'

Lol no. Am I still voting for him?

Unvote

Vote: Ori

Are we still in RVS? I find it hard to tell.
'seems like he has a tentative reason to vote ori, why'd he make it ambiguous with this RVS escape route?'

we are solidly out of RVS btw

@asianaussie

I don't think Serin is scum yet because he hasn't posted anything that would cause me to think so. He's null for me at the moment.

And Ori was an RVS vote.
'oh, this is why.' :urg:

fence-sitting hard, and i would know, im a serial fence sitter in addition to being a serial inactive
 

asianaussie

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my point is, i suggest you find a stance to take, or declare you have no such stances at the moment (and promise you will go looking for a stance)
 

asianaussie

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Unvote

Incase anyone's wondering this is because I said why I did my last vote and now that everyone knows, it will serve no more of a purpose.
i think an extra vote on ori will be some nice pressure for him to sit down and rethink his play, want to oblige me?
 

John2k4

The End of an Era
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Aug 28, 2011
Messages
8,989
Sokr, you unvoted Ori 4 posts ago (190), and are now putting your vote right back on him?
Hesitant to keep a vote down?
--

I updated all my notes, and so far Ori's got a whole ton of stuff so far in there...I'm leaning scum on him.
Some notes on him:

11/9:
Vote was random, but had "hunches"(100),Already discussing flip circumstances for Serin(106),*I don't expect Serin to get lynched, even though I'd like to see it happen"(125),Wants to be a hammer (130),Still reluctant to share reads/cases(146)

11/10:
First Reads[John,Sokr](163),Explains reads after much pressure(181)

--

Ori, are you still suspecting Tery as scum? What specifically has he been doing to make you feel this way?
 

o-Serin-o

I think 56 nights crazy
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i think an extra vote on ori will be some nice pressure for him to sit down and rethink his play, want to oblige me?
Sure, why not? I have nothing else to go on.
I find this kinda scummy, personally.

Nothing better to do, so you put a vote towards Ori? Who has more than likely considered playing a tighter game for whatever position he plays, whether it be town or scum. C'mon, Sokr. You could have re-read posts and thought about just willingly just throwing your vote out.
 

asianaussie

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I say we aren't. We have a solid stance on what most of think of everyone who's been active.

:phone:
not 100% sure if i got the meaning of this, but if so, serin, who of the 'active players' do you most want to hear from, and do you have any reads (scum mainly, town if you want to talk about that)?
 

o-Serin-o

I think 56 nights crazy
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not 100% sure if i got the meaning of this, but if so, serin, who of the 'active players' do you most want to hear from, and do you have any reads (scum mainly, town if you want to talk about that)?
I want to see more from Marathonman, mainly. But other than him, I'm sure everyone else has a standpoint on who all could be town, and who could be scum.
 
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