Newbie 15 - Betty Crocker Mafia - Game Over!

[asianaussie]

it's half the reason i decided to join lol

 

[Terywj [태리]]

it's half the reason i decided to join lol

We should hydra for a future game--"Tsukaizenima".

Also, Gheb: first confirmed, last to speak.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Also, Gheb: first confirmed, last to speak.

Timezone johns. Game started right when I was headed to bed.

...

Since stu already started with instructions on how the power roles behave I'd like to lose a few general words on playing mafia. The most important thing to me - I cannot stress this enough - is trying to not be dependent on other players' opinions as well as you can. Now obviously, as players are divided into the "newbies" and the "IC" category it might occur to some people that one player's opinion is inherently more valuable than another one's. This, however, is not the case. A well-crafted argument can still be a lie and a rather ridiculous statement could still possibly genuine, therefore it's very important to question everybody's stances and always consider the fact that you yourself could possibly wrong about your reads as well.

Since mafia is a game that involves the human mind absolutes are often out of place - there is no "black" or "white" in mafia. A good point can be a town tell but doesn't have to be. If you find a particular, good point you should be able to draw a connection from the point being strong to its poster acting in a pro-town fashion. If you're unable to make said connection you have no logical reason to assume the original point to be a town-tell. There is no unconditional correlation between being "right" and being "pro-town".
Conversely, a bad point can be a scum tell but doesn't have to be. Once again the explanation behind it - the how and the why - is what conditions the "what" as pro-town or anti-town. There is no unconditional correlation between being "wrong" and being "anti-town". If you think you have found a case where there is such a correlation you need to be able to point out the "conditional" between it if it becomes necessary.

Most of all however, you should not be afraid to stick to your own mind and ideas. If you depend on another player's thought process and follow it too much it will become increasingly difficult for you to form your own, credible arguments as the game progresses. You can assume everybody else to be stupid and cater to them by telling them what they like to hear in order to increase your own success within the town but then it becomes a game of mafia failing against the town, not of the town succeeding against the mafia.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

The tracker's case is very similar. If he saw the person targeting a player who did not die, it's the watcher and you do not need to claim unless two people are claiming to be watcher.

I'm pretty sure that this can't happen. Maybe Gova handles the mechanics of watcher and tracker differently but traditionally the watcher is not considered a visiting role. If you track a watcher you should never see him go anywhere.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Forgot to mention this in the previous posts: I might not be able to be very active until the next week as I have a lot of work to do for university. I will surely check in and post on a daily basis but my attention span will be somewhat limited during that time.

 

[John2k4]

Thanks for that, Gheb.

Solid - I was thinking about your post this morning, and wanted to ask you: what exactly do you put into your spreadsheets as notes? That sounds like a great way of organizing thoughts.

 

[DtJ S2n]

I'm pretty sure that this can't happen. Maybe Gova handles the mechanics of watcher and tracker differently but traditionally the watcher is not considered a visiting role. If you track a watcher you should never see him go anywhere.

@Mod, does the Watcher "visit" someone at night?
Only way to find out. It really should be a visiting role, since it's making the choice to target someone.

Our dialogue is going to mindgame the **** out of everyone.

it's half the reason i decided to join lol

Just saying, confusing town is almost always a scumtell. I don't think it needs to be explained why

Vote: Serin
Man I just got done explaining why it's important questions that may seem trivial get asked.

if i told you why i unvoted it would ruin the point of it

 

[DtJ S2n]

@John, I'd like to screenshot it, but screenshots aren't allowed :v. I have it set up for there to be like big columns for every day phase, and then for each day phase, it's separated into "Significant posts" "Votes" "Other." Beyond that, I have a column where I try and speculate what role that player has, though that's not as important in this game. The "other" column is used for general thoughts and things that don't fit into the votes or significant posts. Next to where I put who they voted in the column, I include the post number for convience. Same thing with significant posts.

This is a really nice way to keep track of games, and it's very important to have some form of notes when you're in multiple games, especially if they're large. Another good thing to do is when you're writing an ISO-read, to open up notepad or something like that and write why you think the post matters and connect it to other posts.

An ISO read is a thing where you look through all of one particular user's posts from start to finish. I plan on doing one later this game to show how effective they are and how I like to organize them.

 

[John2k4]

I love the sound of that spreadsheet, I'll try to get one started for me when I get home later today.
As for the screenshot thing, maybe you can just do that postgame.

--
For the Watcher, it doesn't make sense for them to 'move' at night... To me, a watcher would be able to stare out his window all night, and see who leaves without him having to move himself.

 

[Sokr]

I don't believe that one bit, especially not with your play in Britches and Hoes, but for the sake of this being a newbie game.

FoS: Finger of suspicion. Indicating, well, suspicion.

Remember: I'm the guy who didn't know to bold votes.

And it wasn't fos although at this stage in the game everyone's getting fos from me.

 

[Gova]

1. Terywj (1) MM
2. Sokr (1) Serin
3. Serin (4) Tery, Ori, Sokr, S2
4. John2k4 ()
5. asianaussie (1) John
6. Ori_Bro ()
7. Matathonmann ()
8. Gheb ()
9. Sold2 ()

Not voting - Gheb, AA

With 9 playing, it takes 5 to lynch!

Deadline is November 17th at 11:59 PM CST (GMT-6)!

@Mod, does the Watcher "visit" someone at night?

Yes.

 

[MARaTHonman]

@AA No, I don't think Tery's suspicion was warranted. I don't know what anyone's experience level is though, so maybe meta factors into it. But it seemed like a reasonable question to ask.

 

[John2k4]

Uh, so you know guys, Serin is at L-1 already...is he the play for toDay?

(L-1 - one vote away from lynch.)

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Unvote

I'd like to question all the others who jumped onto Serin afterwards. Why did you do so?

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Just saying, confusing town is almost always a scumtell. I don't think it needs to be explained why

Ohyou.jpg

Aizen and Tsukishima are displeased.

 

[Ori_bro]

Terry, I jumped the Serin push for a Random D-1 push haha people seemed to just follow the crowd om what was a vote without logic/reason.

At this moment I've got my hunch for 3 potential scum and Serin is one. Serin really hasn't given much a defense for himself, so maybe he thinks he is basically a goner.

Other than Serin, I'm not seeing anyone else post their reason for why they want to lynch "_______".

What do think if the current situation terry?

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Ori_bro, this is RVS. Pretty much all Mafia games start in RVS, which stands for random voting stage. As the name implies, most of the voting in this phase is done randomly, with no real substance to back up or justify the votes, because there really isn't anything out there yet (it's the start of the game). Sold and Gheb can elaborate further since they're IC players, but RVS is used to help start dialogue and connections which can become useful as the game progresses--stuff like people who don't do much or people who are overly defensive, etc. etc. RVS helps gain groundwork to find scum in the future. This explains my vote on Serin at the very start of the game. In Newbie 14, a few votes tacked on Serin from RVS and Serin pretty much gave up and thought nothing else could really come out of RVS / Day 1, but that's obviously not the case. This time, I presume he knows better.

Ori_bro, now that I've explained the situation, you'll see your stance doesn't quite hold. Serin has not made a defense because he doesn't need a defense (or shouldn't). This is RVS. And as I stated before, Serin should have a different mindset when it comes to Day 1 now.

Serin, what do you think of the people who placed votes on you? (Including me)

Sold, I'd assume you knew you were the L-1 vote. Why did you do this?

 

[o-Serin-o]

Ive still considered this RVS, so I'm not too worried. For those with the honest intent on lynching me, any particular reason why?

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Ive still considered this RVS, so I'm not too worried. For those with the honest intent on lynching me, any particular reason why?

That wasn't my question. :3

 

[Ori_bro]

Like I've said it was random, but I've got my hunches

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Like I've said it was random, but I've got my hunches

What do you do if say Serin is lynched and flips town? Flips scum? Who do you look at then? Would those reads be justified?

 

[o-Serin-o]

Ninja'd hella hard.

Tery, see my last post. Everyone seems to be bandwagoning me for the fact of their lack of a better person to vote for.

However, the bandwagon itself weird for the fact of having 4 votes after not too long with no arguments.

 

[o-Serin-o]

Overall, I'm gonna be watching over the posts made by the 4 of you that voted me.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Ninja'd hella hard.

Tery, see my last post. Everyone seems to be bandwagoning me for the fact of their lack of a better person to vote for.

However, the bandwagon itself weird for the fact of having 4 votes after not too long with no arguments.

Do you think there is scum in that group of three/four?

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Pseudo-ninja'd. Good stuff Serin.

 

[Ori_bro]

I think it would be dumb of scum to stick close together, especially D1. I would try to keep a small distance because it would look suspicious.


If serin flips town...

woops mis read.


If serin flips scum...

m2k level reads.

 

[Ori_bro]

@Mod sorry for edit.

 

[o-Serin-o]

You can never completely rule anything out. I'm not saying scum would always hold hands, but they wouldn't let an easy death go by without the other's help.

Just an idea.

 

[Ori_bro]

True, but it seems the most logical to create a bit of distance. The more distance the less suspicion.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Distancing can also be obvious.

Also, I meant who would you look into if Serin flips what.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

So far I like the discussion. We need other people's opinions on this.

 

[Ori_bro]

Distancing can also be obvious.

Also, I meant who would you look into if Serin flips what.

No spoilers yet

So far I like the discussion. We need other people's opinions on this.

Agreed.

 

[DtJ S2n]

Unvote hold up I just got back and I have to read.

 

[John2k4]

@Mod sorry for edit.

Remember to always EBWOP [Edit by way of post]. Just make a second post with corrections.

I think editing will give you a mod vote, but with this being Newbie Mafia, I can't say that for sure.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Tsukishima, where are you? Thoughts?

 

[Ori_bro]

Remember to always EBWOP [Edit by way of post]. Just make a second post with corrections.

I think editing will give you a mod vote, but with this being Newbie Mafia, I can't say that for sure.

Thats why i apologized. I know about Mod votes ^_^.

 

[DtJ S2n]

Unvote

I'd like to question all the others who jumped onto Serin afterwards. Why did you do so?

Vote: Serin
Man I just got done explaining why it's important questions that may seem trivial get asked.

I wanted to pressure him to respond to this. As in why he had a problem with Sokr's question.

Sold, I'd assume you knew you were the L-1 vote. Why did you do this?

Legitimately my bad.

No spoilers yet

Spoilers? So does this mean you expect Serin to be lynched? Awfully weird wordin', partner.

Also, for everyone's convenience: I looked into the edit history of that post, and nothing significant has been changed.

 

[DtJ S2n]

"Legitimately my bad" as in, I messed up. It was a mistake. I didn't pay attention to the votes .

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Alrighty.

So John, you're still voting Asianaussie and have done minimal (if any) communication. Why is that?

 

[o-Serin-o]

No spoilers yet

So I'm guessing you're looking for me to lynched later on in the game?

Watch your wordings.