Newbie 13: Organization XIII Mafia ~Town Wins!~

[#HBC | Acrostic]

This was absolutely horrible. Scrambling for a last minute lynch. Werekill should have been lynched.

Nope. I had Werekill|Sangfroidwarrior as town reads based on my re-reads|impressions. Seikend|BPC were null. Panta I had a dumb tell on which I felt was not genuine when I examined Werekill's reaction in response.

 

[Xivii]

@Mods: How many games have you hosted?

You're being a huge *** through this stretch of posts. You don't get an extension every time someone replaces in. The mods were generous to let us even have it the first time.

 

[Xivii]

Nope. I had Werekill|Sangfroidwarrior as town reads based on my re-reads|impressions. Seikend|BPC were null. Panta I had a dumb tell on which I felt was not genuine when I examined Werekill's reaction in response.

Nah dude it was dumb and selfish. You almost caused a no lynch because of your own personal reads.

 

[Xivii]

Anyways I'll have to post more tomorrow or later because this computer is logging off. I'll still be reading on my psp though.

 

[th3kuzinator]

Zen tell me your thoughts on mass claiming and give me a list plox

 

[Gova]

1.) Acrostic ()
2.) SangfroidWarrior ()
4.) Seikend ()
6.) Budget Player Cadet_ (1) Kuz
7.) Werekill ()
8.) Zen ()
9.) th3kuzinator (1) Werekill
Not voting - Acrostic, SW, Seikend, BPC, Zen,

With 7 playing, it takes 4 to lynch!

Deadline is August 3rd at 11:59 PM EST (GMT-5).

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

Nah dude it was dumb and selfish. You almost caused a no lynch because of your own personal reads.

I would have lynched Panta|Seikend over an NL. Even if SangfroidWarrior chose to stay on Werekill I would have voted for Panta and he would have been lynched with four votes. If you're going to insult me then at least link plausible rationale so I can at least be misled into thinking that your criticism is actually constructive because right now you just seem salty for choosing to approach this game as a minimalist and not getting what you wanted from yesterday.

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

Zεη would you be up for lynching Seikend today?

Werekill seems pretty adamant about Kooz.
Kooz seems pretty adamant that Seikend is town and wants BPC lynched.
BPC is traveling with the Wild Thornberries.
Seikend is just chilling but he won't vote himself.
Sangfroid is gone until Monday.
Zεη it seems like you've finally caught up. But you're leaving again.

 

[Xivii]

I haven't caught up yet, but this day was shorter than I thought in terms of content. I just have about 200 posts. I'll have my thoughts up in a bit.

 

[Xivii]

Wait, what's quicktopic?

How did you not know this if you played a game before?

 

[Xivii]

^nvm

Just a bit more to go. 2:30 am

bb in the morning

 

[Seikend]

Can you show me the posts you felt were good and why they were good?

Yup. When questioned on whether SW's vote on him was OMGUS he first asked what OMGUS was, then provided the following answer.

Well, in that case, I don't think Sangfroid is voting me because of OMGUS. Even though she had to reread my statements to find them, she clearly stated her reasoning, and I can see where she's coming from.

By asking for it and then answering he's shown that he's thought it through and gives a damn solid answer to the question. He can see her intent as townie, which is exactly what he should be looking at. He's got a good read on SW because of it.


Werekill asks him:

@Garg: Didn't you kinda randomly bash SW too near the beginning? You said that she was being defensive, yet she really hadn't had much of a chance to do so.

And he replies.

@Werekill
No, there's a difference between straight bashing and just arguing with somebody. I was arguing with her, not just repeatedly attacking her like you. Another huge difference was the fact that she was the only other person active at the moment, besides kuz. I wasn't going to argue with myself was I?

Yet again, he understands the difference in intent. He sees himself as arguing (trying to decipher SW's alignment, townie), whilst he sees Werekill as attacking (tunneling, not so townie). And I agree with his analysis.

@Panta
I understand where you are coming from, but in the very beginning of the game, just having one vote isn't 'life or death'. My vote wasn't to get anybody lynched. You said it as if I was trying to rally everybody up to vote against you, which was clearly not the case at all. I also don't get where you derived "... paranoia..." out of any of this?

I love this guy. He analyses the intent of his post to show it was pressure, and not a scummy push.


I was gonna save this until endgame, but since I've went through his posts now, I may as well say it now.

I think Gargaglione actually has a lot of potential at this game. In his first game he quickly picked up on recognising Intent. Almost all of his non-fluff posts weren't analysis of surface things, but they went straight to the core of the post: the writer's intent. If he had more confidence to push his points and question people, I think he could be really good. Kudos Gargaglione.

 

[th3kuzinator]

It's the walrus.

 

[Xivii]

All caught up.

My apologies Acrostic for jumping at you earlier. It instinctively angers me for someone to call on my replacement when I know that I will catch up and actually want to play the game. At the time I thought you were just being rude, but I now see where you were coming from so apologies for that.

As for the lynch yesterday, I do think it was a bad move. You shouldn't switch to a random lynch on someone who hasn't claimed and who hasn't been thoroughly looked at. If I had a slight town read on someone near the deadline, but many others felt they were scum, I'd go ahead and lynch that person. Even if they did flip town, it would be better than a no lynch. It seemed too early in the game for you to absolutely refuse to lynch someone especially when you had no solid evidence pointing to Werekill being town.

There may be some cases where someone is super obvtown and people want to lynch them for dumb reasons. Maybe then would be a time to refuse to lynch, but this was definitely not one of those cases. That being, said I'm not blaming you for the panta lynch. Garg came out of no where with that Panta vote, and Seik followed. That's where the shift came from. But still, I didn't like that you would have refused to vote Werekill and force a nl D1 if you were put in the position.

My thoughts on today:

First off Night Kill speculation is no good. It just leads to WIFOM and faulty accusations/clears. There's many reasons scum would kill someone, and there's no point in trying to determine why.

Another thing that is faulty is clearing/condemning people off of town flips. For examppe, if Kooz and I go at it and I die and flip town, that in no way condemns Kooz as scum. If Kooz defends me and I die and flip town, that in no way gives Kooz town points. Town know just as much as other town so it's not as if their reads become gold after they die. And scum know who is town, so they can easily defend a townie before they die in hopes to gain town points.
Why I bring this up is for a couple of reasons. Sang you said earlier that 2 scum were on the Panta wagon and the rest were town. This is not necessarily the case. 1 scum or even 0 scum could have been on the wagon. The other reason is I see people making spider web connections based on town flips. Acro, Seikend flipping town shouldn't give you a town read on anyone really. I find it weird the Kooz even asks what reads people gain from a town flip.

@Sang (#912?): Yeah I probably should have been here on the deadline day. I thought I made it pretty clear that I wanted a Werekill lynch. And I saw that Kooz voted Werekill too, so I do find it odd that you guys somehow couldn't determine what the IC's wanted. I didn't realize you guys would be scrambling at the last minute so yeah that's my fault for not being here. I'll do better today.

Kooz Vs Werekill was a clear win for Werekill in my view. I've gained a townier view of him from that. They both failed to see where each other were coming from on some points, but I would at least have expect Kooz to see WKs points.

No on mass claiming on d2. We can think about it likely tomorrow.

My two main scum reads are Seikend and BPC. I want one of them lynched today. Add Kooz in there too. I'm seeing him as a strong candidate for Seikand's scum buddy.

Seikend first stood out with his Panta vote. He had expressed that he felt Werekill wad scum and Werekill already had 3 votes on at the time. It was weird that he just dropped that and switched to Panta who only had 1 vote and who he had a town read on. Another thing that was odd to me was how fast he was able to catch up. I kind of feel he was getting outside help from his buddy. Also don't like his recent answers to Acrostic. How he ignored them because they were dumb. It just looks contradictory to the original image he was trying to give off of being helpful and active. I was expecting more from him today.
BCP's switch onto Pheonix yesterday I still don't understand. He seemed very set in wanting to lynch Werekill end then he votes Pheonix out of no where. That post Kooz quoted of him saying I was being buddy-buddy was also awkward and came from no where. I however am not down for lynching him until he is replaced or claims. I realize this just makes me look more buddyish, but I have my reasons.
Kooz has gotten a lot more suspicious to me. Him Vs Werekill I did not like, and I feel he is being manipulative. First with the PR directs (And Kooz you keep ignoring the fact that you yourself uses the word direct. Yes it was directing no matter how you try to paint it so quit arguing that fact) and now with the mass claim. A mass claim opens up all the information for scum and allows them to plot out their night actions AND day pushes the most effeciently. I really do not like this from Kooz at all.

Something else that stood out to me about Kooz is that in one post he puts two obvtownies and two nulls together (Sang, Acrostic, Me, and BPC) and proposes that there are two PRs and two scum within the group. It looks manipulative. It would be a pretty obvious choice. It looked to me like Kooz was trying to set me up with BPC before hand like ha was going through some logical progression. He later trys and calls me and bpc out on being buddies like it was something new he thought of, but it looked from that post he was already plotting for that. I can give more detail when I'm on a CPU if you guys don't get what I'm talking about.

I also feel that Koozes town read on Seikend has come out of no where and I don't get it.

 

[th3kuzinator]

Did you even read my post on why we should mass claim?

We're mass claiming.

 

[Xivii]

Erg, the bpc and kooz paragraphs were supposed to be seperated for smoother reading. Oh well.

For me the scum team revolves around Seikend and BPC with at least one of them being scum.

If Seikend flips scum:

Seikend-BPC
Seikend-Kooz
Seikend-Werekill

If BPC flips scum:

BPC-Seikend
BPC-Werekill
BPC-Kooz

These are all possible scum teams I see- the higher, the more likely.

 

[Xivii]

Did you even read my post on why we should mass claim?

We're mass claiming.

Yes, I did. It was dumb. And we aren't.

 

[th3kuzinator]

Wow your points on me are so terrible wtf.

All you say is I'm being manipulative and say you don't like the exchange. I clearly wasn't directing the cop as I gave three candidates way before the deadline instead of Werekill giving one the post directly before the deadline. Your point on scumhunting is just mechanical and you havn't even sat down and thought about why mass claiming would beneficial.

Something else that stood out to me about Kooz is that in one post he puts two obvtownies and two nulls together (Sang, Acrostic, Me, and BPC) and proposes that there are two PRs and two scum within the group. It looks manipulative. It would be a pretty obvious choice. It looked to me like Kooz was trying to set me up with BPC before hand like ha was going through some logical progression. He later trys and calls me and bpc out on being buddies like it was something new he thought of, but it looked from that post he was already plotting for that. I can give more detail when I'm on a CPU if you guys don't get what I'm talking about.

There is just so much wrong with this I don't even.

I don't have you and BPC as two nulls btw. I have you as null but slightly leaning scum with this last response, while I think BPC is scum. Instead of dismissing everything I've said as manipulative and "plotting against you" (like wtf is that) why don't you explain the offhand comment BPC made about you and his reluctance to follow up on it? Why don't you tell us why you didn't address his nudge as soon as you saw it? Oh but it must be my manipulative plotting that caused the connection.

How is any of this maniuplative. At all? In the slightest. How am I plotting against you when I've shown through in thread connection where I've seen a more than questionable interaction. It's not something new that I just thought up, its something I found during a read and the way that you're trying to twist what I'm doing as "plotting against you" is blatantly wrong. The list isn't manipulative, at all. Explain to me how it is. There are two VT claims and I happen to believe both of them are town and disregarding myself, you 4 are the only players left.

My Seikend read stems from many things that you would have gotten if you had actually read the thread.

 

[th3kuzinator]

Yes, I did. It was dumb. And we aren't.

It's not dumb, it makes a lot of sense actually. Explain to me why it is dumb with other reasoning besides generic "oh it gives mafia more information" (which is pretty much the standard response to when anyone brings it up).

With the situation we're in regarding claims and flips and the semi-open setups, there is so much more town gains from a mass claim than scum.

And we are.

 

[#HBC | J]

Back from V/LA but seems Gova kept everything 100% running smoothly. ^^

 

[Xivii]

Nulls at the time. Why would you use the reads you have Now to defend against a point that is from way earlier? Will get to the rest later.

 

[th3kuzinator]

Erg, the bpc and kooz paragraphs were supposed to be seperated for smoother reading. Oh well.

For me the scum team revolves around Seikend and BPC with at least one of them being scum.

If Seikend flips scum:

Seikend-BPC
Seikend-Kooz
Seikend-Werekill

If BPC flips scum:

BPC-Seikend
BPC-Werekill
BPC-Kooz

These are all possible scum teams I see- the higher, the more likely.

And how is this not manipulative. You're setting up a framework of reads for both lynches when your reasoning for each individual player being scum is terrible.

So that means I'm assuming you think Sang and Acrostic are obvtown. I thought you had mainly come to the conclusion yesterDay that Sang was scum just playing well. Or was that just in the heat of the bandwagon?

 

[Seikend]

Seikend first stood out with his Panta vote. He had expressed that he felt Werekill wad scum and Werekill already had 3 votes on at the time. It was weird that he just dropped that and switched to Panta who only had 1 vote and who he had a town read on.

Pri sure this has already been covered. I didn't have a town read on Panta. Where did you get this from? I pretty clearly state that he looked scummy to me and I'd take him over a No Lynch.

We were approaching deadline, I didn't think anyone would be available to hammer WK. It looked to me that Kuz was leaning town on WK, and no one else had said they'd be around for deadline.

Have you properly re-read? Acrostic tried to push the exact same point as you and I've already broken it down.

Another thing that was odd to me was how fast he was able to catch up. I kind of feel he was getting outside help from his buddy.

J had asked if I was interested in being a replacement in the game and I said yes. Before I officially joined the game I had already skimmed it all.

Did you honestly think any mod would replace someone at whatever number of hours before the deadline without them knowing anything?

Is this point serious at all? It's just.... so dumb.

Also don't like his recent answers to Acrostic. How he ignored them because they were dumb. It just looks contradictory to the original image he was trying to give off of being helpful and active. I was expecting more from him today.

What exactly should I be doing? What have I not adequately responded to? Are you really going to try and push a case on me on the basis that I haven't done enough?


@Zen Why is BPC scum to you? You haven't explained that at all. Why?

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

Zεη I thought that Kooz was being manipulative as well upon first read. However on re-read I think that he might just be overeager to go with the information that is currently known and by proxy is pushing his reads based on that information. I suggest looking at it one more time and thinking about it from Kooz's point of view. In the same vein I'm also considering what has happened today from everyone else's perspective. I really feel kind of dense for not doing this in the first place. Running out to grab groceries for now.

 

[Xivii]

Wow your points on me are so terrible wtf.

All you say is I'm being manipulative and say you don't like the exchange. I clearly wasn't directing the cop as I gave three candidates way before the deadline instead of Werekill giving one the post directly before the deadline.

1. Why do you keep ignoring the point that you used the word directing in the post?
2. Because you gave more candidates, doesn't mean it wasn't directing. Advising the cop to go a certain way is directing.
3. You also did yours right before the deadline. It's just that the deadline was extended after this.

I don't have you and BPC as two nulls btw. I have you as null but slightly leaning scum with this last response, while I think BPC is scum.

As I said in my post above. Why are you using the read you just gained to defend against the point from earlier in the day when you had a null read? Werekill is correct that you change things around to fit your argument.

Instead of dismissing everything I've said as manipulative and "plotting against you" (like wtf is that) why don't you explain the offhand comment BPC made about you and his reluctance to follow up on it?

Why are you and Seikan saying I did not comment on BPC? It's in there right before I go into my read on you. I even mention this comment specifically and that I agree on it.

Why don't you tell us why you didn't address his nudge as soon as you saw it?

I actually did call BPC out on his switch over to Werekill. He never came back though. Or if you're talking about his call out on me, I didn't even notice that until you quoted it.

Oh but it must be my manipulative plotting that caused the connection.

You're reacting very defensively o.O.

How is any of this maniuplative. At all? In the slightest. How am I plotting against you when I've shown through in thread connection where I've seen a more than questionable interaction. It's not something new that I just thought up, its something I found during a read and the way that you're trying to twist what I'm doing as "plotting against you" is blatantly wrong. The list isn't manipulative, at all. Explain to me how it is. There are two VT claims and I happen to believe both of them are town and disregarding myself, you 4 are the only players left.

Well you believe the two VT claims. And you had also explained at this point that you felt Sang was town. Right after the post you also state how obvtown Acrostic is. So at that point in time you should have pretty much come to the conclusion that BPC and I are scum. Yet you put it together like you don't know who is scum out of the four and then ask others what you think. And I'm pretty sure just about everyone here thinks that Acrostic and Werekill are town. This is why I feel it was a manipulative move to have people come to the conclusion that bpc and I are scum.

I know I am town and I believe Sang and Acro are as well, so I know with almost certainty that that group does not contain two PRs and two scum.

My Seikend read stems from many things that you would have gotten if you had actually read the thread.

Can you put it all in one post for me? I feel that you're counting him out as being scum for very little reasoning. It's strange. I also noticed a subtle defense of him earlier as well against Acrostic. I have to look for the post but Acro was calling him out on something and then you shot down Acro calling his questions dumb. So yeah I do think there is a good possibilty of you two being buddies.

And how is this not manipulative. You're setting up a framework of reads for both lynches when your reasoning for each individual player being scum is terrible.

This is an outline of who I feel could be scum and it leaves quite a bit of variability. You 2pr/2scum lead to only one conclusion that most of the players would draw.

So that means I'm assuming you think Sang and Acrostic are obvtown. I thought you had mainly come to the conclusion yesterDay that Sang was scum just playing well. Or was that just in the heat of the bandwagon?

Yes I mainly came to the conclusion that Werekill was scum by the end of the day. That is why I had my vote on her and said we should lynch Werekill.

And yeah I'd have a hard time seeing Acrostic as town. Other than Sang's lie bit, she has been really townie as well as I have expressed.

 

[Xivii]

@Seikend: Yes I realize that point has been brought up. Your defense of it is a "my word vs your thoughts" type of thing. Simply because you explained your perspective doesn't mean that the point disappears. You explained your perspective, and I have mine. It's like in court. Both sides explain their case. Simply because you explain your case doesn't mean that the point is no longer there.

As for the catch up thing. That is is the same. I am willing to give you the benefit of that however. And yes I do believe the mod would replace someone in. You think the mod knew that you had been reading?? I really don't think that affected their decision.
As for me not explaining on BPC, I did. You just didn't read it.

 

[Xivii]

I'll review claiming.

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

@Zen:

Spoiler

My apologies Acrostic for jumping at you earlier. It instinctively angers me for someone to call on my replacement when I know that I will catch up and actually want to play the game. At the time I thought you were just being rude, but I now see where you were coming from so apologies for that.

The reason why I did it is because you're hard to read as you usually don't type much and when you do it is hard to read your intent, i.e. Touhou mafia. I was hoping that giving you a bit of a ribbing might make you angry and make you start rambling so I had some means of gauging you. I thought that your absence could be a tactic on your part to prevent anyone in this game from getting a good read. But it appears that is not the case and it should be treated as null as you had other issues hindering your ability to play in this game.

As for the lynch yesterday, I do think it was a bad move. You shouldn't switch to a random lynch on someone who hasn't claimed and who hasn't been thoroughly looked at. If I had a slight town read on someone near the deadline, but many others felt they were scum, I'd go ahead and lynch that person. Even if they did flip town, it would be better than a no lynch. It seemed too early in the game for you to absolutely refuse to lynch someone especially when you had no solid evidence pointing to Werekill being town.

Not receiving a claim from Panta was a humongous blunder on my part. I was under the impression that he would have claimed earlier when there were votes placed on him as he seemed somewhat desperate. However assuming he wouldn't be a PR was an impulsive decision that should have been reconsidered more carefully. I was being obstinate with my town read on Werekill since he had been fairly consistent with his fos on Sangfroid|Panta even though he could have easily hopped on the Seikend|Pheonix wagon for self-preservation.

There may be some cases where someone is super obvtown and people want to lynch them for dumb reasons. Maybe then would be a time to refuse to lynch, but this was definitely not one of those cases. That being, said I'm not blaming you for the panta lynch. Garg came out of no where with that Panta vote, and Seik followed. That's where the shift came from. But still, I didn't like that you would have refused to vote Werekill and force a nl D1 if you were put in the position.

I honestly didn't like Panta's OMGUS on BPC and how Kooz was extremely chummy about it afterwards. A lot of Panta's input throughout the course of D1 when he was finally able to post it was a rehash of comments already stated by Kooz and mostly other players. Overall the only reason I could find behind not lynching Panta was that he seemed to not know what scum would know (i.e. QT) and didn't see the push an agenda as he seemed to sheep Kooz throughout the course of D1 in thought and foses. I honestly didn't want to debate dumb or scum on Panta for the duration of this game and lose someone who I had a town read on.

Re: Night kill speculation & town flips: I agree and I looked a little too deeply into both of these.

 

[Xivii]

Gosh dammit @ Kooz being right.

BPC 1
Kooz 2
Sang 3
Acro 4

 

[Xivii]

We need a replacement for BPC if we're going to go through with this unless he can get on and claim.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Mod: requesting replacement. I can't be as active in this game as I need to be at the moment, especially seeing as the lynch deadline is effectively the very earliest I can get back into this game.

 

[th3kuzinator]

While you're here, please claim for us.

@Sang/Werekill: Lists please.

 

[th3kuzinator]

@MOD: If Budget is replaced can we can an extension pretty please?

 

[#HBC | J]

Mod: requesting replacement. I can't be as active in this game as I need to be at the moment, especially seeing as the lynch deadline is effectively the very earliest I can get back into this game.

It's alright and I'll get right on finding a replacement into this game ASAP. Thanks for letting me/the game know.

@MOD: If Budget is replaced can we can an extension pretty please?

Possibly haha I'd have to think about it. =P

 

[Lore]

You're being a huge *** through this stretch of posts. You don't get an extension every time someone replaces in. The mods were generous to let us even have it the first time.

Well, I thought that I was rightfully being an ***. When someone who's at L-1 gets replaced hours before a deadline, an extension is perfectly reasonable, even if it's one day. We didn't get one for some odd reason, so we had to scramble for a lynch.

Anyway, I just thought of a benefit to mass claiming that may have changed my mind. Will say it after the claimage.

1 for first, 2 for second, etc.

BPC- 1
Sang- 2
Kuz- 3
Zen- 4
Acrostic- 5

On another note, I still hate how Kuz is trying to attack Zen's arguments by saying "wtf this terrible," like he did to mine. If it's so terrible, give it a proper response that SAYS that it's terrible; don't insult it, give mediocre responses that sometimes don't cover things, and call it a day.

My vote is still staying on Kuz.

 

[th3kuzinator]

Yet you want me to claim third.

And if you had read down below where I said it was terrible you would have seen my response as to why it was terrible targeting each of his points.

 

[#HBC | J]

Red Ryu replaces Budget Player Cadet_ effective immediately! Welcome him to the game and thank him for replacing in so promptly!

Deadline may be extended but I must talk to my co-mod but as of now the deadline stands.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Gonna read, posting what has happened thus far would help me out as well.

 

[Gova]

1.) Acrostic ()
2.) SangfroidWarrior ()
4.) Seikend ()
6.) Red Ryu (1) Kuz
7.) Werekill ()
8.) Zen ()
9.) th3kuzinator (1) Werekill
Not voting - Acrostic, SW, Seikend, Red Ryu, Zen,

With 7 playing, it takes 4 to lynch!

Deadline is August 3rd at 11:59 PM EST (GMT-5).

 

[#HBC | J]

No deadline extension will be given due there being +72 hours till deadline.