Newbie 13: Organization XIII Mafia ~Town Wins!~

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Stopped on page 20, will be done tomorrow.

 

[Gova]

1.) Acrostic ()
2.) SangfroidWarrior ()
4.) Seikend ()
6.) Red Ryu (1) Kuz
7.) Werekill ()
8.) Zen ()
9.) th3kuzinator (1) Werekill
Not voting - Acrostic, SW, Seikend, Red Ryu, Zen,

With 7 playing, it takes 4 to lynch!

Deadline is August 3rd at 11:59 PM EST (GMT-5).

 

[th3kuzinator]

1. Why do you keep ignoring the point that you used the word directing in the post?
2. Because you gave more candidates, doesn't mean it wasn't directing. Advising the cop to go a certain way is directing.
3. You also did yours right before the deadline. It's just that the deadline was extended after this.

1. Who's ignoring that? I did use the word direct in my post but did I actually go on to direct the PRs? No. I gave them a template to follow which I urged them to listen to. Your capitalizing on my phrasing instead of the actual content behind my request.

2. So now we're playing word games. You know as well as I do the dangers of directing a cop are a problem because of scum manipulative PRs that could mess with results. Not only did I not limit the target down to one choice and give a spread of players, even if I had not there would have been no destructive consequences of it anyway. It would come down to my word vs someone else's which would have been up to the cop to decide.

3. Wrong. I did mine three full days before deadline while Werekill did his 10 minutes before deadline, in twilight. There's a pretty significant difference between those two time frames.

As I said in my post above. Why are you using the read you just gained to defend against the point from earlier in the day when you had a null read? Werekill is correct that you change things around to fit your argument.

When I made the list I already had BPC as scum so there's no manipulation there. You were also already null leaning scummy due to PoE and finding BPC's scummate. Out of the two left unclaimed I certainly didn't think it was Sang or Acrostic so the logical conclusion that it was you. I'm not pushing you for this because I don't do connection cases until I have the first flip to deal with.

Why are you and Seikan saying I did not comment on BPC? It's in there right before I go into my read on you. I even mention this comment specifically and that I agree on it.I actually did call BPC out on his switch over to Werekill. He never came back though. Or if you're talking about his call out on me, I didn't even notice that until you quoted it.

Okay.

You're reacting very defensively o.O.

O.o

You're reaching very offensively (I'm hurt on the inside).

Well you believe the two VT claims. And you had also explained at this point that you felt Sang was town. Right after the post you also state how obvtown Acrostic is. So at that point in time you should have pretty much come to the conclusion that BPC and I are scum. Yet you put it together like you don't know who is scum out of the four and then ask others what you think. And I'm pretty sure just about everyone here thinks that Acrostic and Werekill are town. This is why I feel it was a manipulative move to have people come to the conclusion that bpc and I are scum.

Whaaaat?

So you think that by PoE I should have come to the conclusion that you and BPC were scum yet since I put the list together like I didn't know who was scum, me coming to the conclusion that you and BPC are scum is manipulative.

Whaaaat?

You're right that I was baking on you and BPC scum by PoE but I can't just dismiss the other two players because of that. I have town reads on them but I can be wrong and completely dismissing them from the equation just because of that is a terrible idea. I put it together like I don't know who scum is because I don't know who scum is. I don't know why you think that's manipulative.

I know I am town and I believe Sang and Acro are as well, so I know with almost certainty that that group does not contain two PRs and two scum.

Almost certain?

Can you put it all in one post for me? I feel that you're counting him out as being scum for very little reasoning. It's strange. I also noticed a subtle defense of him earlier as well against Acrostic. I have to look for the post but Acro was calling him out on something and then you shot down Acro calling his questions dumb. So yeah I do think there is a good possibilty of you two being buddies.

Subtle defense? O_o I'm pretty sure I've made it clear that I think Seikend is town and that I would not be okay with his lynch. I didn't shoot down Acrostic, I explained why his question on Seikend was misguided and used that as a stepping stone to attack his connection based logic. More than wanting Seikend dead because he was scummy, Acrostic wanted Seikend dead because he thought he would be getting good connections out of it. These connections were based on faulty logic, such as clearing Sang and myself as town on a townSeikend flip, so I argued them down.

This is an outline of who I feel could be scum and it leaves quite a bit of variability. You 2pr/2scum lead to only one conclusion that most of the players would draw.

So who is the one arguing about variability now? An outline with variability is still manipulation or something of that equivalent. My diagram just shows the logical viewpoint of myself. That's why I said for it to be taken as fact after my death.

Yes I mainly came to the conclusion that Werekill was scum by the end of the day. That is why I had my vote on her and said we should lynch Werekill.

And yeah I'd have a hard time seeing Acrostic as town. Other than Sang's lie bit, she has been really townie as well as I have expressed.

Gender mixups or I just don't know what you're talking about.

 

[th3kuzinator]

So yeah we have 2.5 days to sort out a lynch after a mass claim.

Sand and RR need to give us lists today at the latest and we need to start mass claiming today as well so we have at least 24 hours to find a lynch. If we cut it too close like yesterDay there's going to be a big problem.

 

[Seikend]

@Seikend: Yes I realize that point has been brought up. Your defense of it is a "my word vs your thoughts" type of thing. Simply because you explained your perspective doesn't mean that the point disappears. You explained your perspective, and I have mine. It's like in court. Both sides explain their case. Simply because you explain your case doesn't mean that the point is no longer there.

No no, thats not my point at all.

It's the fact that you are not generating new content. It's just a parrot of an old case. I don't get why you felt the need to restate the case when you could have just said you agreed with Acrostic's case.

 

[Xivii]

I agree with Acrostic's case.

 

[Lore]

Hey Kuz, are you forgetting the fact that I had posted my cop suggestion first way before twilight? You seem to not care about the fact that my pre-twilight was just a reminder about the subject of an earlier post.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Ryu- 1
Sang- 2
Kuz- 3
Zen- 4
Acrostic- 5

I am fine with this order.

 

[Xivii]

OK well Ryu you're up.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Number I Xemnas, The Superior of the In-Between, Town Cop.

Werekill is town, I disagree with BPC looking at Werekill for a cop result but w/e.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Oh and 4th time being town cop in eight games I have played in, for Washed to know lol.

 

[th3kuzinator]

BPC - 6
Sang - 20
Kuz - 15
Zen - 14
Acrostic - 20

this is the current tally and I'm assuming Sang will chose to have acrostic claim before herself so she's going last anyway.

RR
Zen
Me
Acro
Sang

RR is up, lets go quickly please.

 

[th3kuzinator]

Oh ninja. H/o ill look for any crumbs. Zen you're up.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Don't think he ever crumbed it.

 

[th3kuzinator]

Unv ote

Why do you always get cop wtf

 

[th3kuzinator]

Yet at the same time you were okay with yourself claiming first?

 

[th3kuzinator]

Currently, I'm leaning very strongly towards Werekill and Acrostic as town. No other strong reads, although I am almost innately iffy about Kuz's entire playstyle; acting as a voice of authority makes me suspicious. I can't back that with anything though, so I'm going to throw it out as "baseless paranoia".

The real cop result mixed in with Acrostic to not out himself.

I'll buy it.

Zen, go.

 

[SangfroidWarrior]

I find it interesting that once th3kuzinator leaves, Sangfroid becomes more open to the idea of a Panta lynch. But when th3kuzinator is present, Sangfroid is vocal against a Panta lynch. I am interested in hearing comments from th3kuzinator|Sangfroid regarding Day 1.

Okay, I just want to clear this up right now and I'll finish reading up after this. The only reason I became open-minded to the Panta lynch is because I knew, after Seikend's change in vote, that we weren't going to get a werekill lynch. You're looking too far into things and skipping over stuff. Kuzi not being here changed nothing of my opinion on whether or not to vote Panta. The Panta vote was total ****, but I didn't want a NL. I voted for Panta because I did happen to find a bit of stuff. I would have like Kuzi to have been there because he could have helped us get a really good lynch, but not having him there didn't make me any more open-minded than I already was.

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

Doesn't seem like Zen is here at the moment. Are we going to skip him or should we wait.

 

[th3kuzinator]

We're waiting.

 

[th3kuzinator]

Actually scratch that, if RR wants me to skip him I'll go now.

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

Actually scratch that, if RR wants me to skip him I'll go now.

If you have a null-scum read on Zen then why wouldn't you want him to claim first?

 

[th3kuzinator]

Because RR is the clear and I want things to move as fast as possible so we have time to evaluate things. You're here right now so if I were to claim you'd be able to go next and so on.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Move ahead, if people are here have them talk.

 

[SangfroidWarrior]

Alright, I've finished catching up. I was so confused about the list things for a while

Anyways, before I do my list, I'm going to do my town- and scum-reads first (not necessarily in order of strongest read).

Town:
Kuzi, Zen, RR, Me. Kuzi just feels town to me. Some of his posts have been iffy but I see the town intent behind them. Zen has posted enough actual content to make me believe he's town. He doesn't seem to really be flipflopping as others have said (even I IIRC) but is more trying to get reads. RR well... mostly because of his claim.

Null:
Werekill, Acro. I'm leaning scum with Werekill but I think it's just because of a grudge. I still don't trust him at all but I'm not sure how much of that is from a strong basis or how much is from how he played earlier in the game. I did a readthrough and still haven't been able to shake myself of the feeling that you might be scum, but I don't really have any basis any more. Gut feelings. With Acro, I did have strong town feelings towards him but... as of late some of his posts have seemed very paranoid. He's reading too much into things and trying to see things that aren't there. He then goes back and changes his mind pretty often. I don't understand where he's coming from. He also is throwing around his vote a lot like it doesn't matter. Sure, it's to pressure people but it's very extreme for some small things, especially in regards to his vote on me D1 and his call for a Zen replacement recently. Even if Zen understands it, I don't and I don't like it. I'm not sure how much of that is from the differences in our play-styles, but I don't like it one bit. Null leaning scum.

Scum:
Seikend. Both of the people in this slot have posted some very non-important material. Phoenix, for one, contributed very little if none at all to the game. Seikend has been posting a lot more but, to me, a lot of it seems to have already been said before or is putting more information out there instead of what he thinks of it. He isn't here much to help the town either. His VT claim doesn't help me either.

Anyways, moving on, I will do another re-read when my head still isn't spinning.

My list of who I want to claim if you still want it:

Kuzi - 2
Zen - 3
Acro - 1

If you all want, I will claim right now. I don't really care.

 

[SangfroidWarrior]

I would have lynched Panta|Seikend over an NL. Even if SangfroidWarrior chose to stay on Werekill I would have voted for Panta and he would have been lynched with four votes.

Okay, just saying, we needed 5 people in order to lynch. This isn't like other games where the person with the most lynches gets killed. It takes a majority.

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

Okay, just saying, we needed 5 people in order to lynch. This isn't like other games where the person with the most lynches gets killed. It takes a majority.

I thought most lynches was synonymous with majority. If Person X has 4 votes and Person Y has 3 votes on D1, then Person X will be lynched as they have the majority of votes placed on them.

 

[SangfroidWarrior]

Nope. We had 9 people and we needed 1 more than half, or something similar to it. If we had 8 we still would have needed 5. That's why it says (4/7) on the thread title. We need 4 to lynch somebody. A 2, 3, 1, 1 vote won't work. It will just end up in a NL

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

Nope. We had 9 people and we needed 1 more than half, or something similar to it. If we had 8 we still would have needed 5. That's why it says (4/7) on the thread title. We need 4 to lynch somebody. A 2, 3, 1, 1 vote won't work. It will just end up in a NL

Then that was a misunderstanding on my part. I would prefer if you claimed after Zen|Kooz.

 

[SangfroidWarrior]

Alrighty. Now it's just a question of if I will be up to claim tonight or if they will even come back tonight.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Yet at the same time you were okay with yourself claiming first?

BPC didn't play all too well in the later days, his claim needed to be first.

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

If your analysis of Red Ryu is town because of his claim, then why did you put Werekill as null? If you believe that Red Ryu's claim is believable then his inno on Werekill would make him town meaning your two major foses for today are me|Seikend.

With Acro, I did have strong town feelings towards him but... as of late some of his posts have seemed very paranoid. He's reading too much into things and trying to see things that aren't there.

If you don't mind I'm going to ask for you to elaborate. Where have I been paranoid|reading into things and if I am reading into things which reads do you think are particularly scummy? I can't really address these statements if you don't give me more to work with.

He then goes back and changes his mind pretty often. I don't understand where he's coming from. He also is throwing around his vote a lot like it doesn't matter. Sure, it's to pressure people but it's very extreme for some small things, especially in regards to his vote on me D1 and his call for a Zen replacement recently. Even if Zen understands it, I don't and I don't like it. I'm not sure how much of that is from the differences in our play-styles, but I don't like it one bit. Null leaning scum.

I voted you D1 because you lied and I wanted responses. I think I voted you one more time after that because we were getting close to deadline and I wanted you to answer some last minute questions. I also don't understand how asking Zen to replace out is scummy. Zen wasn't posting and it was getting close to deadline. BPC's slot was also inactive. A push was made on these two slots and they weren't here to respond|offer feedback with the deadline coming close. I don't see what there is not to like to put pressure on someone to get reads especially when they are being fossed and can't defend themselves due to absence.

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

@mod: Give me that vote. Head of shame. You just can't teach an old dog new tricks.

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

Sorry guys. FYI I have a mod vote on me. Deserve it as I initiated the warning in the first place. I'm just going to head to bed before I make anymore blunders.

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

It's alright. ^^

Let this be a warning to all though to not edit your posts. If another post is edited that player will receive a mod-vote for that current day phase. Gracias.

For reference.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Finished reading, scum picks are Zen and Acrostic.

Werekill I feel like Kuzi is nullish town so he is fine right now, still waiting for mass claim before I push anything.

 

[Xivii]

I'm VT. I believe my character is Xaldin. And yeah I noticed BPC's change in view on Werekill today that's why I wanted him to claim before voting him.

 

[th3kuzinator]

V Tay *****es

to acrostic

*back to playing smash*

 

[th3kuzinator]

number 2 xigbar freeshooter or something

 

[SangfroidWarrior]

If your analysis of Red Ryu is town because of his claim, then why did you put Werekill as null? If you believe that Red Ryu's claim is believable then his inno on Werekill would make him town meaning your two major foses for today are me|Seikend.

Just because werekill claimed VT doesn't make him clear in my eyes, and neither does RR's town read of him. A read is different from the person actually saying "I investigated WK and got a town read"

If you don't mind I'm going to ask for you to elaborate. Where have I been paranoid|reading into things and if I am reading into things which reads do you think are particularly scummy? I can't really address these statements if you don't give me more to work with.

I'm not exactly sure which posts it was but there have been a few of them as of late. It's like, you read through something, post your initial thoughts and then actually think about the meaning behind things. I'll have to go look for them again (I wish I had bookmarked them) but it might be a bit.

I don't see what there is not to like to put pressure on someone to get reads especially when they are being fossed and can't defend themselves due to absence.

It wasn't really getting close to deadline. Two days. Really? And, after like 2 prods I'd expect a replacement, and you expect one immediately. Again, I think that part is just differences in our plays, which makes me not like it. My top scum picks for today, if you are asking for them, (and this is in order of greatest to smallest) is Seikend, Werekill, and you. Besides, it's the throwing around of your vote that gets on my nerves. If you're so paranoid that you have to vote for somebody to make sure you get a true response then you are a fool, my friend. Scum will lie no matter what. You pressuring them like that is just going to make them lie even better. A townie would have no incentive to lie and would, therefore, post the entire truth without you even forcing a push. Switching votes around makes you seem wishy-washy and scummy. If you really think somebody is scum, vote them, and don't change that vote onto somebody you want to pressure. Use FoS or HoS, or just trust that they are going to respond to you if you aren't really suspicious of them but want a response.