Newbie 13: Organization XIII Mafia ~Town Wins!~

[Lore]

Hahahahaha, oh, man, I'm rolling on the floor laughing here. You're in a bad situation with the argument, so you just throw it all out and say that you're gonna ignore me? That's the dumbest, most obvious scumtell that I've ever seen.

If I'm so stupid, why are you scrounging for answers and having to resort to throwing out my arguments as "this is stupid," eh? This just makes you look so much worse.

 

[th3kuzinator]

Also I'm curious as to what made you change your mind from scum Werekill to town Werekill. I'm honestly not going to believe the stupidity argument as Werekill has explained how you've misconstrued certain points in his argument such as chronological order and omission. Sorry if I'm siding with Werekill on this one, but I really don't construe his initial statements as role fishing. I mean, it could be, however he did include the terms and conditions which the cop should out. To me I think that he thinks you are scum and was hoping the cop would verify with a report. I read his recent comments as null given previous comments as Sangfroid stated previously.

Think whatever you want and why are you apologizing?

Where did I ever say the Werekill was scum? I said it was dumb or scum and now I'm siding with dumb.

Him rolefishing wasn't even something I wanted to focus on in depth. His last minute direct wasn't something I liked but again, not something to incriminate him for. He still has failed to acknowledge that the situations are completely different, which is what I am trying to make him realize.

 

[th3kuzinator]

Hahahahaha, oh, man, I'm rolling on the floor laughing here. You're in a bad situation with the argument, so you just throw it all out and say that you're gonna ignore me? That's the dumbest, most obvious scumtell that I've ever seen.

If I'm so stupid, why are you scrounging for answers and having to resort to throwing out my arguments as "this is stupid," eh? This just makes you look so much worse.

Have fun fake rofling.

Oh wait, supposed to be ignoring you.

 

[Lore]

Hahaha, wow. You're so scummy that I almost want to claw someone's eyes out. How do you not have more than one vote right now?

 

[Lore]

He still has failed to acknowledge that the situations are completely different, which is what I am trying to make him realize.

How are the situations different? Directing is directing no matter when it happens, especially when I had directed before twilight just like you did and only did a quick reminder after the flip.

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

Think whatever you want and why are you apologizing?

I don't want you or Werekill to eat me.

Where did I ever say the Werekill was scum? I said it was dumb or scum and now I'm siding with dumb.

Given yesterday's vote and his position at L-1 on D1 I was inclined to think that you felt that Werekill was scum. Unless you enjoy lynching townies I'm not sure how I was supposed to construe the subsequent argument between you two. Okay good. I still don't feel that Werekill is dumb telling. I feel like Panta dumb told wrt the QT. Werekill just comes off as an aggressive townie who is genuinely trying to find scum.

Him rolefishing wasn't even something I wanted to focus on in depth. His last minute direct wasn't something I liked but again, not something to incriminate him for. He still has failed to acknowledge that the situations are completely different, which is what I am trying to make him realize.

Okay~

 

[Gova]

1.) Acrostic ()
2.) SangfroidWarrior ()
4.) Seikend ()
6.) Budget Player Cadet_ ()
7.) Werekill ()
8.) Zen ()
9.) th3kuzinator (1) Werekill
Not voting - Acrostic, SW, Seikend, BPC, Zen, Kuz

With 7 playing, it takes 4 to lynch!

Deadline is August 3rd at 11:59 PM EST (GMT-5).

 

[th3kuzinator]

The order of the posts in 937 have nothing to do with my argument.

"and then you say' was supposed to be "but then you say" showing the contradiction between the posts. I phrased it wrong but even if I didn't, the order of the posts didn't misconstrue your argument when my post was left the way it was.

Still havn't shown me where I manipulated the order of your posts to make an attack on you.

 

[SangfroidWarrior]

Hahaha, wow. You're so scummy that I almost want to claw someone's eyes out. How do you not have more than one vote right now?

Becuase 1) Nobody is really on. They probably don't even know D1 has started. And 2) Because you're the only one here that finds his arguments scummy.

 

[th3kuzinator]

Given yesterday's vote and his position at L-1 on D1 I was inclined to think that you felt that Werekill was scum. Unless you enjoy lynching townies I'm not sure how I was supposed to construe the subsequent argument between you two. Okay good. I still don't feel that Werekill is dumb telling. I feel like Panta dumb told wrt the QT. Werekill just comes off as an aggressive townie who is genuinely trying to find scum.

After he was put at L-1 I changed my read on him. At the end of the previous Day I thought it was a Werekill lynch or a Sang lynch, and I didn't want Sang dead for reasons I already explained. I was more willing to take my chances with Werekill being scum than Sang, and I wasn't going to NL.

And again, feel free to have your own opinion about Werekill. I don't even think Panta was dumb. He was just really afraid of his image but there was so much townie intent behind his posts I don't even.

 

[#HBC | J]

@ mod: Sorry. Will stop editing last minute.

It's alright. ^^

Let this be a warning to all though to not edit your posts. If another post is edited that player will receive a mod-vote for that current day phase. Gracias.

 

[th3kuzinator]

de nada

OMG J's avatar is freaking me out.

/only slightly intoxicated

 

[SangfroidWarrior]

Alright, Kuzi, with you're #970 post in mind, who do you think is scum atm?

 

[th3kuzinator]

Still havn't gotten around to re-reading that Panta wagon. I'll let you know shortly or however long it takes me to getting to getting around to it.

 

[Lore]

Ok, since you wanted to play the ignoring game and ignore me, I'll do the same to you. I honestly don't care what you say now; you're complete scum in my eyes.

Becuase 1) Nobody is really on. They probably don't even know D1 has started. And 2) Because you're the only one here that finds his arguments scummy.

D2, not D1.

And really? He's so obvscum that it's making my head hurt.

By the way, it was more of a rhetorical question than anything else.

@All players other than Kuz: what do you think of Kuz's behavior in the recent exchange between me and him? Would you be ok with a Kuz lynch?

 

[SangfroidWarrior]

@Kuzi. Thanks.

@Werekill. Thanks lol It's null to me, so, no, I wouldn't be down with a Kuzi lynch. I still feel he's town from D1. Look at it from my perspective... or go back to my #943 I believe (speaking of which I want you to answer that). Both of your arguments seem pretty flawed and stem from the fact that neither of you trust the other at all. You are assuming that the person has to put "This is what I think you should do" when you obviously didn't do so yourself. Kuzi is assuming that you only want to know if he flipped scum and don't give a crap if anyone else did. Honestly my head is spinning because the arguments you both have presented are so circuitous to the point you are trying to make, attempting to prove the other wrong while assuming they should know you are right from what you have already posted (which is what I did to you yesterDay.... you seem to be getting in a lot of these arguments ). Also, with my argument, I think you decided to drop it, so why are you getting mad at Kuzi for that? I could have said the exact same thing.

But, regardless. No, I would not be down with a Kuzi lynch, especially this early in the Day, but I don't know if I feel as strongly that he is town. On the other hand, I feel the same about you... just, I feel you are slightly more scummy than you were before.

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

Werekill. I think you need to calm down and assess things a bit slowly. If you look too deeply into small skirmishes|interactions then you can be easily mislead into treating a discrepancy incorrectly as a scum tell. I would honestly suggest unvoting, doing an isolated reading on th3kuzinator, and then assessing those reads as a whole.

 

[SangfroidWarrior]

^^^^^ What he said... except for the issolated reading thing. Don't do that. It gets things messed up and you start taking things out of context.

 

[Lore]

@Sangfroid: Eh, I'm still on my ipod, so I reaaaally don't feel like chopping up that paragraph into tiny bits. I'll respond to one thing, though:

The difference between you dropping something and Kuz dropping it is that you didn't just throw off all my arguments as the result of me being dumb; you actually admitted the validity of my points and we moved on together. Doing what Kuz did is a terrible way to debate, and, in my eyes, it's a scumtell.

@Acrostic: Sorry, I just find the whole argument on his side as scummy, and I don't like his play overall, even after a reread. The vote stays.

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

Also Seikend|BPC haven't even spoken yet. I believe it would be better to read what they are going to write before pressing a lynch.

 

[th3kuzinator]

I'm glad your re-read took 7 minutes.

 

[SangfroidWarrior]

I don't think Zen has really said anything of value either. I think the other two is because they don't know the Day has started.

@Werekill. Why not wait until tomorrow (the 28th, not toMorrow) to re-read when you've gotten some sleep. I'm not sure if it'll change your mind, but at least it won't be so fresh.

@Kuzi. I think he was talking about this recent argument. Not the entire game. Why don't you take some time to cool off and get some perspective in regards to the recent argument as well. Being slightly drunk doesn't help, either.

 

[th3kuzinator]

I'm completely cool right now and mostly sobered up at that. I made a promise to Gova that I wouldn't get blow up or curse at others this game and I intent to keep it so don't worry about my temperament. I've already read the argument 4 times over through multiple perspectives and all it reads to me as dumb town trying to chase incorrect tells. But who am I to spoil his fun?

Still reading bits of D1.

 

[th3kuzinator]

@Sang and Acrostic: What're your thoughts on Seikend?

@Seikend: Thoughts on BPC.

 

[SangfroidWarrior]

Kk. Just making sure.

I'm wonderring, though. Why is werekill seeming so defensive in this argument if you have even said you think he's just being dumb town.

 

[Lore]

When I said reread, I meant the reread I did earlier toDay. I'll rereread tomorrow, though, just to be safe.

 

[Lore]

Kk. Just making sure.

I'm wonderring, though. Why is werekill seeming so defensive in this argument if you have even said you think he's just being dumb town.

I honestly thought the defensive bits were just my responces to what he said, and for the rest of the time, I was fairly offensive.

 

[SangfroidWarrior]

@Kuzi. I'm going to have to do a readthrough as well, but I probably won't be able to do it tonight. Without it though... I'm not sure. When he came in I did think he was pretty towny-esque but he hasn't given much. His previous player, Pheonix, did some pretty weird things, and with his recent flip to lynch Panta instead of Werekill... I'm not sure.

*10 mins after ^^^^ part*

Just did a read of Seikend's posts and... They look like they have content but, after he did a read-through, you'd think they have more... meat than just superficial things. It's not enough but I'd say null slightly leaning mafia.

@Werekill. Meh. Just the entire argument both of you were being slightly defensive, but you both were also being offensive as well.

@Mod (and everyone else playing the game). I apologize for this but I'm going to be extremely busy tomorrow and I'm not sure how often I'll be able to get on. Also, calling V/LA for Friday through Sunday.

That being said, I will try to get on, but I doubt it will happen. I'm going to a convention and staying with friends, so, even if I can get on before Sunday night, I'll probably be exhausted. This way, we don't have a mixup like we did with Panta for being "inactive".

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

@Kooz: I'm heading to bed so I'll give you a quick response for now. I like certain posts that he typed such as his #777 regarding Sangfroid and #789 on Gargaglione when he was at L-1. I am inclined to think that if scum was put at L-1, they could try to find an easy-way out by pushing on Sangfroid's lie or Gargaglione as an inactive player. I also really like his analysis in #802 regarding Werekill's reaction being null tell as I didn't think of Werekill staying on Kuz for the sake of preserving face. I dislike comments like #816 regarding his vote being "flexible." Especially when he put me as one of his major foses. Overall I find him null. I find that sometimes I like or dislike some of his comments.

 

[Lore]

Actually Acrostic, Panta was quite inactive as well, and Seikend pushed for him.

Anyway, I've got a straight up null BARELY leaning scum on him. He hasn't posted enough content to give a clear read, and Panta could have been an easy way out, so I'm just slightly leaning scum.

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

Actually that is a good point. I'm going to re-read tomorrow and see how his vote panned out.

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

Seikend replaced in for Pheonix on #777.

I would like the WK lynch but considering his wagon has come and gone without a lynch it might not happen.

I think WK is scum, however I won't lynch him because... "his wagon has come and gone" & "it might not happen." Wtf? I don't understand this reason at all. Especially given the context that Kooz was going to vote and Seikend|Werekill were both at L-2. So Werekill being killed, was possible. Especially considering the fact that Gargaglione unvotes for Seikend in #814 making the two wagons Seikend at L-3 and Werekill at L-2. If he wanted to have Werekill lynched, then there really was no reason for him to join the Panta lynch with Gargaglione putting Panta at L-4. Then he types the following:

"With no WK lynch, Panta is the next most likely and favourable in my eyes." DUDE! YOU HAD THE WEREKILL LYNCH! WTF! IF YOU REALLY WANTED TO LYNCH WEREKILL YOU COULD HAVE HAD HIM LYNCHED! Then I wanted to stop reading because at this point, it didn't make sense unless him and Werekill were a scum team. But then I remembered what he wrote in #789 which was, "At a stretch I'd take Panta and Acrostic over a No Lynch." At a stretch v. next most likely.

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

Actually wait. Werekill was on Sangfroid and was on Seikend putting him at L-1. That means Werekill could have still switched his vote and Kooz would have to choose between forcing an NL by voting for Werekill or going ahead with the lynch by choosing Seikend. Gargaglione unvoting for Seikend would have resulted in both wagons being at L-2 assuming Werekill could vote for Seikend to stay alive resulted in a forced NL between them. Seikend I guess then decides to take a Panta alternative lynch rather than having the possibility of a forced NL. Puts a vote on Panta and then leaves. Kooz then decides to vote Werekill after making us wait forever. However Seikend is already gone and isn't able to change his vote.

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

I need sleep.

 

[Seikend]

Have a migraine and feel like ****.

I'll be back to respond to things either this evening or tommorow, depending on how I feel.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

All right. A few more of the cards are on the table now. I'm sorry for my horrendous activity; as far as excuses go, I'll just mention waking up this morning in the hospital hung over and on an IV drip and leave it at that.

What we can look at to get some hints is how people acted towards both Garg and Panta. Open hostility towards Garg is kind of a null read, possibly even clearing, seeing as most people aren't that obvious. However, buddying up with them could show at least some form of intent.

I disagree that Garg was a poor nightkill. He was fairly inactive and left a relatively small trail. Killing, say, Werekill, Kuz, or myself would've been kind of a game-changer, as it probably would've cleared up an awful lot more than killing Garg.

I'm still planning a big re-read, but I have to kinda make the house nice again to butter up my mom so that she changes her mind about letting me go to the big international this weekend.

Currently, I'm leaning very strongly towards Werekill and Acrostic as town. No other strong reads, although I am almost innately iffy about Kuz's entire playstyle; acting as a voice of authority makes me suspicious. I can't back that with anything though, so I'm going to throw it out as "baseless paranoia".

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

What we can look at to get some hints is how people acted towards both Garg and Panta. Open hostility towards Garg is kind of a null read, possibly even clearing, seeing as most people aren't that obvious. However, buddying up with them could show at least some form of intent.

I re-read Gargaglione and the only person who had surface motivation to kill him was Panta assuming a defensive kill scenario. When I say "defensive kill" I'm referring to someone dying who had reads into mafia or was aggressively hot in pursuit of mafia and was killed as a defensive measure so that mafia would have one less person throwing suspicion on them. Panta was Gargaglione's main fos, and both flipped town. Therefore I am more inclined to think that Gargaglione was killed based on what you said next.

I disagree that Garg was a poor nightkill. He was fairly inactive and left a relatively small trail. Killing, say, Werekill, Kuz, or myself would've been kind of a game-changer, as it probably would've cleared up an awful lot more than killing Garg.

If you don't mind, I would appreciate what reads would result from the death of Werekill|Kuz|BPC as I believe that this would be an ideal starting point for determining today's lynch. Mainly I am interested in what reads you will get from any of those individuals flipping town or scum. I am also interested in how you feel your flip would give us reads. I personally don't think your flip will help me produce prospective reads for tomorrow. However, I don't think that you or Seikend are in a scum team based on the responses I got from #723 and actually stated my thoughts in #804. I'm also not very enthused with the activity I'm getting from Seikend replacing into that slot, but for now I want to evaluate his input into today before deciding on my vote.

I'm not too sure if I'm looking too much into the kill or not, however after reading this post I feel that the Gargaglione was a prospective kill and not a defensive kill. In other words, BPC has stated that Gargaglione "left a relatively small trail." I feel that this type of strategy would be from someone who had the foresight to consider how the kill would effect possible day play today and planned accordingly. Again I don't know if I'm reading too much into this, but my opinion is that mafia are fairly confident in winning and are in a favorable position at the moment. I feel that if we were dealing with "mediocre mafia" then they would dedicate the kill to: [a] someone who foses them someone who reads as a strong town read or [c] one of the two ICs. Gargaglione was one of the few people I expected to be killed after he led the lynch on Panta and was expecting mafia to try to frame him the following day.

Finally, we should consider reasons to why mafia would want to leave a small trail. Again BPC said that killing certain people would have been a "game-changer." I spent some time thinking about this last point. What if mafia wouldn't want the game to change? To illustrate my point, consider that anyone with [0] votes on them from yesterday were mafia. Killing someone who would produce little to no reads would result in little changing from the previous day. So for instance, mafia could be banking on a Werekill|Seikend lynch for today hoping that town would continue their behavior from D1 given the nature that they were the two most prominent wagons before we decided to lynch Panta.

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

If there was a logical reason to kill Gargaglione, then I believe the reason wasn't to kill "Gargaglione" per se but to either throw us off on wondering why Gargaglione would die or to leave as little reads as possible into the next day. It is also possible that mafia killed Gargaglione for no reason at all. But for some reason I feel that if mafia really had that mentality then they would have killed one of the above three targets which I mentioned previously. Again this could all be WIFOM and I could have just wasted my walk in the park pondering about nothing, however I ran through Gargaglione twice and I honestly came up with nothing.

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

Seikend I would prefer if you put up a V/LA like SangfroidWarrior did in #988 so I can prepare questions to ask when you are going to be available to play. Also I'm getting inclinations that your slot is playing inactive on purpose given the lack of activity from you and pheonix. This is not as definitive though as a previous game where the replacement chose to keep the same mannerisms and the same foses. However I'm still a bit wary.

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

Forever alone.