Newbie 13: Organization XIII Mafia ~Town Wins!~

[Lore]

He didn't say it in this thread, but he said it in UPick, which I'm hydraing with J atm. And, even if it was a joke, it had to have something behind it because you've felt that I was mafia from the beginning. But, meh. Alright. I apologize. I'm just on edge from the Panta lynch.

Saying something in another thread does not excuse dropping this game without a warning that WE can see. I call it being lazy and not caring.

And fair enough, I suppose.

 

[SangfroidWarrior]

o.O Why would you feel manipulated if he flipped scum?

 

[Lore]

o.O Why would you feel manipulated if he flipped scum?

He was saying that Panta would have been manipulative if he was scum.

 

[SangfroidWarrior]

OOOHHHHHHHH. I thought he meant by the people that voted for Panta. Wouldn't anyone feel that way unless they had a really strong mafia read?

 

[Gova]

1.) Acrostic ()
2.) SangfroidWarrior ()
4.) Seikend ()
6.) Budget Player Cadet_ ()
7.) Werekill ()
8.) Zen ()
9.) th3kuzinator ()
Not voting - Acrostic, SW, Seikend, BPC, Werekill, Zen, Kuz

With 7 playing, it takes 4 to lynch!

Deadline is August 3rd at 11:59 PM EST (GMT-5).

 

[th3kuzinator]

Im gone for one evening and town pulls the whackest lynch in existence.

 

[th3kuzinator]

Werekill why are you so concerned with the cop getting a guilty on me?

You still keep calling me scum without substantiating anything and your last second direction of the cop at me was scummy as anything. If the cop investigated me they just wasted a Night.

Gonna re-read what I missed whike I was away, there are deffinetly scum to be found there

Cop only claim if you have a guilty.

 

[Lore]

Huh? I've just been saying that the cop shouldn't blindly listen to you and should consider investigating you. You're an IC, which means that you're one of the least likely people to get much heat brought on you, so if the cop got a guilty on you, that would be a HUGE win for town.

By the way, I've also said for the cop to only claim if they got a guilty, so no need to worry on that.

 

[th3kuzinator]

You said "if you have an inno, do what you want" which deffinetly isnt saying "dont claim"

You're still fishing for it.

More stuff when i haz computer

still smh at panta lynch

 

[Lore]

Well, I was basically saying that if they got an inno OR investigated someone else, the cop should use their own instincts. Did you miss the second bit of the sentence?

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

You still keep calling me scum without substantiating anything and your last second direction of the cop at me was scummy as anything. If the cop investigated me they just wasted a Night.

For clarification, it wasn't a last second direction imo. Werekill brought it up in #493 and you responded to it in #499. Deadline was two to three days away so there was plenty of time to discuss it. Last second direction would be using twilight to try to have cop investigate someone. I also don't think scum would be ballsy enough to try to tell the cop what to do. From my point of view, that's drawing attention and asking to be investigated.

 

[th3kuzinator]

For clarification, it wasn't a last second direction imo. Werekill brought it up in #493 and you responded to it in #499. Deadline was two to three days away so there was plenty of time to discuss it. Last second direction would be using twilight to try to have cop investigate someone. I also don't think scum would be ballsy enough to try to tell the cop what to do. From my point of view, that's drawing attention and asking to be investigated.

Oh yeah. Silly me, must have been mistaken.

Oh wait, are you forgetting the post immediately before flip?

Yeah. Scummy as anything.

And scum could easily be ballsy enough to do it. I do that **** all the time as scum.

 

[Lore]

And scum could easily be ballsy enough to do it. I do that **** all the time as scum.

Saying that after you've blatantly directed the cop yourself is pretty ballsy, I would say...

And yes, I suggested an idea to the cop. If you continue to have a problem with it, you might as well start thinking of yourself as scummy as well.

 

[Lore]

Oh, and way to miss my previous post.

 

[th3kuzinator]

Saying that after you've blatantly directed the cop yourself is pretty ballsy, I would say...

And yes, I suggested an idea to the cop. If you continue to have a problem with it, you might as well start thinking of yourself as scummy as well.

How many times am I gonna have to do this? Stop being dumb or scum. I didn't direct the cop. At all. I gave him three scum reads that I thought would be good cop choices. I didn't go "oh hey, kuz is probably scum. food for thought" in the last second of twilight.

Not the same thing at all.

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

Oh yeah. Silly me, must have been mistaken.

Oh wait, are you forgetting the post immediately before flip? Yeah. Scummy as anything.

Aaah. Missed that. I believe that the cop ran through the thread and read your back and forth with Werekill before deciding to commit to a decision. To be straightforward I think you're holding on to a bit of a double-standard when it comes to dictating what the cop should or should not do since both you and Werekill tried to guide the cop to investigating targets you each thought would be fruitful. I think it is possible that each of you were trying to narrow in on who you felt were likely suspects and I'm construing it as a town tell... for each of you.

 

[th3kuzinator]

Well, I was basically saying that if they got an inno OR investigated someone else, the cop should use their own instincts. Did you miss the second bit of the sentence?

Thats the most cop out answer in the history of cop out answers.

You say right here that

By the way, I've also said for the cop to only claim if they got a guilty, so no need to worry on that.

and then you say

If he's innocent or you flat-out investigated someone else, just do what you want.

What does that have anything to do with fishing for the claim? You say that the cop should only claim if they have a guilty and then you say that if you have an inno or you investigated someone else entirely then the cop should do what he want.

"Oh but Kuz, I was saying that the cop should make his own judgement like if he got a guilty on someone else."

No. You just said right there that the cop should only claim if they have a guilty so the only thing your former post did was keep the option open for the cop to claim regardless of his result. Rolefishing.

 

[th3kuzinator]

Aaah. Missed that. I believe that the cop ran through the thread and read your back and forth with Werekill before deciding to commit to a decision. To be straightforward I think you're holding on to a bit of a double-standard when it comes to dictating what the cop should or should not do since both you and Werekill tried to guide the cop to investigating targets you each thought would be fruitful. I think it is possible that each of you were trying to narrow in on who you felt were likely suspects and I'm construing it as a town tell... for each of you.

I was third on Werekill's scum list. Behind Panta and someone else. If Werekill was trying to narrow down the scum list for the cop to cop, why would he have chosen me over the person he thought was scummier. Yeah yeah, the IC thing. But is that really what he should be thinking about in the last moments of twilight? Guiding the cop onto me and then asking for the flip?

It reeks.

 

[th3kuzinator]

Acrostic is not scum with Werekill.

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

Acrostic is not scum with Werekill.

Thank you. I don't think Werekill is scum either.

 

[Lore]

How many times am I gonna have to do this? Stop being dumb or scum. I didn't direct the cop. At all. I gave him three scum reads that I thought would be good cop choices. I didn't go "oh hey, kuz is probably scum. food for thought" in the last second of twilight.

Not the same thing at all.

Really? It seems pretty clear-cut to me that you were completely directing Pr's:

@Doc: Flip a coin between Zen and myself. IE 50/50 between the ICs. I know this is counter intuitive to the point of choosing who you're going to protect but by making your choice completely at random between the two of us, that should scare off scum trying to kill us during the Night (they wouldn't want to risk hitting the doc protect; screws them over).

@Cop: Investigate one of Moth, Phoenix, Zen. Again, the choice is ultimately yours but choosing within this template will be fruitful. I promise.

You basically say "Hey Cop! Investigate these guys! I swear in a vague way that this will be helpful!" How is this NOT directing?

It also makes you look like you're trying to build up all IC's to be majorly important, which suspiciously makes it look like you're trying to direct heat away from yourself.

So yeah. I don't like you. In fact, I dislike you more than SW now, so Vote: Kuz

 

[SangfroidWarrior]

I was third on Werekill's scum list. Behind Panta and someone else.

Yeah, that would be me.

 

[SangfroidWarrior]

@Kuzi and Werekill. You both are trying to guide the cop in your own ways. Werekill, to me it just seems like you're retaliating like this because Kuzi had attacked you for it. Otherwise, I don't think you would have brought it up. You were directing the PR's as much as Kuzi was. Kuzi, yes, telling somebody "If you investigated Kuz and got scum tell us otherwise IDC" is slightly scummy, but he had been giving us his thoughts on you being scum for a while. I dislike him as much as you, but you seem to be reaching too far into his answers.

@Werekill. So, you're saying, if I was the cop and I investigated, let's say... Zen, another IC, and I got a guilty, you wouldn't care whether or not I told everyone?

 

[th3kuzinator]

Really? It seems pretty clear-cut to me that you were completely directing Pr's:



You basically say "Hey Cop! Investigate these guys! I swear in a vague way that this will be helpful!" How is this NOT directing?

It also makes you look like you're trying to build up all IC's to be majorly important, which suspiciously makes it look like you're trying to direct heat away from yourself.

So yeah. I don't like you. In fact, I dislike you more than SW now, so Vote: Kuz

Can you read?

I gave three scumpicks and told the cop it would be beneficial to listen to them. I also said it was ultimately his choice. This also wasn't 3 minutes before the flip went up after you kneejerked a Panta lynch.

Not the same at all.

And hell no at the second bit. Are you kidding me?

You're an IC, which means that you're one of the least likely people to get much heat brought on you, so if the cop got a guilty on you, that would be a HUGE win for town.

This was your cop our response for why I should be copped and now you're trying to say I'm scum for building up the ICs to be important? And how is that even trying to divert heat off myself at all?

I really can't tell if this is ultra dumb or scum right now.

 

[Lore]

Good job skyrocketing even more to the top of my scum list, Kuz. Let's look at my FULL post, shall we?

Also, cop: if you actually investigated Kuz and got a guilty, don't hestitate to claim. He'll likely get passed by, otherwise. If he's innocent or you flat-out investigated someone else, just do what you want.

The part that I underlined is the part that you completely left out because it made your case invalid.

The underline part leaves absolutely no room for argument on the fact that I only said for sure to claim if they had a guilty on you, and only you. You left it out on purpose, I believe, because it makes your argument that "OH HO HE WAS LEAVING HIS OPTIONS OPEN MMMHMM" completely invalid.

Putting the quotes in the wrong order (my "Don't worry, said only if guilty" post came AFTER the other post, not "and then.") also reeks of manipulation.

So yeah. You're now the scummiest player, in my eyes.

 

[SangfroidWarrior]

EBWOP: No, I'm not claiming cop. This is hypothetical.

 

[th3kuzinator]

Good job skyrocketing even more to the top of my scum list, Kuz. Let's look at my FULL post, shall we?



The part that I underlined is the part that you completely left out because it made your case invalid.

The underline part leaves absolutely no room for argument on the fact that I only said for sure to claim if they had a guilty on you, and only you. You left it out on purpose, I believe, because it makes your argument that "OH HO HE WAS LEAVING HIS OPTIONS OPEN MMMHMM" completely invalid.

Putting the quotes in the wrong order (my "Don't worry, said only if guilty" post came AFTER the other post, not "and then.") also reeks of manipulation.

So yeah. You're now the scummiest player, in my eyes.

Wtf is wrong with you?

The first part of the quote is completely irrelevant. How does that at all change that you were keeping your option for the cop to claim with an inno open.

You literally just took my post, realized that I left some insignificant part out and said I was trying to manipulate your argument without responding to it at all.

 

[th3kuzinator]

By the way, I've also said for the cop to only claim if they got a guilty, so no need to worry on that.

The underline part leaves absolutely no room for argument on the fact that I only said for sure to claim if they had a guilty on you, and only you. You

Right, because that's clearly what you're saying.

 

[Lore]

Can you read?

I gave three scumpicks and told the cop it would be beneficial to listen to them. I also said it was ultimately his choice. This also wasn't 3 minutes before the flip went up after you kneejerked a Panta lynch.

Not the same at all.

And hell no at the second bit. Are you kidding me?

I said directing Pr'S. Plural. Not singular. Can you read? I'm not sure if this is dumb or scum.

You essentially flat-out told the doc to protect you or Zen. There's no room for argument there, and the action itself reeked of making yourself seem more important to the doc, or more importantly, to Town. I don't like this AT ALL.

This was your cop our response for why I should be copped and now you're trying to say I'm scum for building up the ICs to be important?

I addressed the rest above, so I'll answer this. It was not a cop out response; I had said it several times throughout the game.

I'm almost at the point that if you turn out to be town, I'll eat my own arm. Almost.

 

[Lore]

Wtf is wrong with you?

The first part of the quote is completely irrelevant. How does that at all change that you were keeping your option for the cop to claim with an inno open.

You literally just took my post, realized that I left some insignificant part out and said I was trying to manipulate your argument without responding to it at all.

Personal attack? How mature, scum.

Really? I thought it was clear cut that I only said to claim with a guilty on YOU and said for cop to do whatever they want, otherwise. I hope that a cop isn't stupid enough to claim an Inno.

And yes, I call it manipulation, especially when you flat out change the chronological order to support yourself.

Right, because that's clearly what you're saying.

I said the "for sure" bit before the other. I hope that someone wouldn't skim the thread without seeing my older post to give them something to base their opinion of that vaguer post on!

 

[th3kuzinator]

You're literally trying to squirm out of this by arguing phrasing.

You first said cop should only claim if they got a guilty on me and that if they did something else they can do what they wanted. Keeping your options open.

Then you're saying that you already said that the cop should only claim if he had a guilty. You didn't do this, you told them to make their own decision if they didn't get a guilty on me.

This isn't even as much a concern to me as the actual cop directing itself but your counter push is absolutely terrible.

 

[Lore]

Oh, and before you say "WELL YOU JUST INSULTED ME TOO," I hope that it's obvious that it was a joke based on what you said before.

 

[th3kuzinator]

Thank you. I don't think Werekill is scum either.

I'm starting to side with ultra dumb as well. I wasn't clearing you btw, I was just saying you aren't on the same scumteam.

 

[th3kuzinator]

Personal attack? How mature, scum.

Really? I thought it was clear cut that I only said to claim with a guilty on YOU and said for cop to do whatever they want, otherwise. I hope that a cop isn't stupid enough to claim an Inno.

Cute.

If its such an obvious answer now why didn't you say that then? You left the option open.

And yes, I call it manipulation, especially when you flat out change the chronological order to support yourself.

Show me where I did this and how it was used to misinterpret anything.

I said the "for sure" bit before the other. I hope that someone wouldn't skim the thread without seeing my older post to give them something to base their opinion of that vaguer post on!

Coherent sentences, please make them.

 

[Lore]

You're literally trying to squirm out of this by arguing phrasing.

You first said cop should only claim if they got a guilty on me and that if they did something else they can do what they wanted. Keeping your options open.

Then you're saying that you already said that the cop should only claim if he had a guilty. You didn't do this, you told them to make their own decision if they didn't get a guilty on me.

This isn't even as much a concern to me as the actual cop directing itself but your counter push is absolutely terrible.

How is phrasing not important when you completely twist the facts around? You, scummy, are the one trying to squirm
out of this.

And like I said: I hope that people wouldn't base a claim on a skim that didn't include my previous, more indepth post. Before you get all pissy, I didn't say base a claim, but you get the idea.

And HOW is my counter push terrible? All you're doing here is calling it terrible with only a bit of reasoning that ignores several parts of my arguments, such as the fact that you VERY clearly directed the doc, with no room to say otherwise, and this action wa an attempt to make the IC's look more important. Throwing out my arguments by pretty much giving some reasoning then saying "oh man, this is terrible" to blanket cover the rest is extremely scummy, in my eyes. If it's so terrible, why not respond and prove it wrong?

I bolded it so that you don't miss it this time. <3

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

I'm starting to side with ultra dumb as well. I wasn't clearing you btw, I was just saying you aren't on the same scumteam.

I don't find him dumb. I think his points are valid. When I played in my Newbie 10 game I was constantly afraid that Vanderzant was scum and I wouldn't be able to lynch him because in most newbie games everyone wants to see the ICs as town because they provide help and advice. I think Werekill's reaction is akin to how I felt back then and that you or Zen could be scum. I don't think that you are in a scumteam with Zen though.

 

[Lore]

Cute.

If its such an obvious answer now why didn't you say that then? You left the option open.

Because I was assuming that the cop wasn't a total idiot? I don't see how you don't get that.

Show me where I did this and how it was used to misinterpret anything.

937. You changed the order with an "and then you said" which made it look more like I had slipped up instead of it lookong like how it was supposed to: one post implying the other.

Coherent sentences, please make them.

Oh, look!A grammar attack that has nothing to do with the point being made, and it essentially throws out the point as wrong because it's apparently incoherent to Kuz! Whatever shall we do?

 

[th3kuzinator]

The ICs are more important players. Why is saying that scummy and why are you trying to make it out to be scummy.

I already explained my reasoning for directing the doc 3 times yesterDay. We're here to give advice and if we die N1 how can we do that? How does that in any way direct heat off of me? At all?

And I have been responding to it. But all you've done is taken little sections from my response and responded to the phrasing instead of explaining the point behind the argument.

I'm done with this argument because its not going anywhere and I already got a read out of it. I'm going to ignore you now and focus on more important things such as a re-read of that Panta lynch.

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

Also I'm curious as to what made you change your mind from scum Werekill to town Werekill. I'm honestly not going to believe the stupidity argument as Werekill has explained how you've misconstrued certain points in his argument such as chronological order and omission. Sorry if I'm siding with Werekill on this one, but I really don't construe his initial statements as role fishing. I mean, it could be, however he did include the terms and conditions which the cop should out. Unless you think that 1:1 exchange between cop:scum is role-fishing assuming cop hits goon or gets killed. I read his recent comments as null given previous comments as Sangfroid stated previously.

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

@ mod: Sorry. Will stop editing last minute.