New Values (NEW CHAR SPECIFIC CODE)

[leafgreen386]

Of the characters I've tried, I haven't noticed any problems besides those I've noted. Pit felt fine to me (could he sh finish uair before?), and sonic seems fine on his setting, as well - he keeps all of his finished aerials.

 

[The Cape]

Of the characters I've tried, I haven't noticed any problems besides those I've noted. Pit felt fine to me (could he sh finish uair before?), and sonic seems fine on his setting, as well - he keeps all of his finished aerials.

He could SH fair for you? I couldnt do it.

Removed Pit, Bowser, and ZSS (she played fine after more time).

Sonic I am worried about the SH fair autocancel. The others I feel may be legit concerns. I would like to at least try them out.

Snake Ike, and Link's full hops are barely higher than their SHs, so that definetly needs fixed. Wolf's entire playstyle is changed by that increase in grav, and Marth needs a bit less (I think). He should be floaty.

Falco's increased grav is great, but his lack of jumping ability really hurts him. I guess I am leaning towards the Melee style Falco. Fastest faller, but insane jumps.

 

[Almas]

I think the idea is that characters who are comparitively floaty should be given a fast FF speed to allow them to chain attacks more easily.

Constant Write [29 Lines]
065A9200 000000DC
008664A0 0114F440
026864A0 0305C460
046764A0 0534E440
066844D0 07666480
0824C460 098884C0
0A6664A0 0B34F440
0C3664A0 0D34C460
0E666480 0F6664A0
116865A0 1234C460
133844D0 1444ED40
1534C460 1634E440
17666480 184664A0
196664A0 1A6664A0
1B3664A0 1D64C460
1E666640 1F34F440
2034F440 213664A0
226B64A0 236664A0
2534E440 2934C440
2C5747A0 2E6B64A0
2F24DD40 3F4CCCCD
3F59999A 3F666666
3F733333 3F800000
3F833333 3F866666
3F89999A 3F8CCCCD
3F900000 3F933333
3F966666 3F99999A
3FA00000 3FA66666
3FB33333 00000000

Others remain as normal. Provided no objections, I will release in 12 hours.

EDIT: Blarg! Changed your mind! Alright, hold on.

 

[The Cape]

What all did you change with this Almas?

Going to test...

 

[leafgreen386]

Sonic's sh finished fair is about as hard as ganon's dair in reg brawl, but it is possible.

Edit: And I thought I'd mention that pit and sonic were the only ones on your list that I tried, thus is why they're the only ones I gave an explanation for.

 

[KishPrime]

After playing this a lot today, I can officially say that I don't get it. The gravity changes seem to change everything about how the game is played. Charizard's fair now sends like Sheik's fair from Melee. That was a total what the freaking heck moment.

I don't understand why the speed of the game needs to be changed. We can make about 10 small improvements that have a giant impact on the game's mechanics. As it is, it feels like you are trying to remake Melee without the polish and with a bunch of moves that don't act the way they were intended to.

So...I dunno. I guess I'll still play it some more. I'm surprised, I honestly expected to like it once I played it.

 

[Almas]

I did everything you did in the last post before you updated to remove some things.

EDIT: I believe the aim of this code is to make characters just feel more fluid. Ionno, I've never liked the floatiness of Brawl. I think the B+ project is a lot more far-reaching than you had thought it was. Many people want the final product to be a completely different game. Looking at Brawl, I kinda agree.

 

[KishPrime]

It's not more "far-reaching," it's just a different goal.

I just felt like we had a great thing going with our original set. I like a few of the new ones, shieldstun, no buffer, and maybe dash dance. But that basically fixes what was wrong with the game. Anything else is just personal preference.

Point is, it's not Brawl+ if you're making it into a different game. We dropped the Melee 2.0 label for a reason.

 

[MookieRah]

I think I overdid it with the original gravity changes and now things are getting out of hand. I think my original values before I upped them, in which the fastest characters hat a gravity set to something like 1.15 and "normal" characters had a grav of about 1.1 it would be for the best. I mentioned it before, but it makes all of the attacks act differently and much more horizontal. I also think it hurts a lot of characters recoveries cause they fall to fast. We can speed up the game a little without it disrupting the game, but we have to do it in moderation.

If only there was just a universal speed increase code that functioned. That'd be nice.

 

[KishPrime]

While I agree with you, I ask again, WHY do you want to speed it up? I think it's just a matter of personal preference. Maybe they like it faster than you do. Speed does not inherently fix Brawl's mechanics.

 

[MookieRah]

Speed does not inherently fix Brawl's mechanics.

We fix brawl mechanics too :-P. I just see the speed as an issue. I say we speed it up as long as it doesn't destroy the mechanics in place. Very slight gravity changes would speed up the game, and it wouldn't bork things up like massive grav changes do. I also wonder how important gravity really is, because when you increase fast fall speeds that makes characters really fast. I think lower gravities with slightly faster fast falls is the way to go. When and if the air momentum code comes around I think the game will be sped up enough to where all this extra gravity we are tossing around would be considered entirely unecessary.

Another good thing about speed. The faster characters are the less stun you need for attacks. IMO, the less stun we have the better, because in all honesty Melee didn't have a lot of stun and it worked VERY well. If I could roll back hitstun to 5 or 6% with the gravity and air momentum changes I'd be happy to do so.

 

[The Cape]

Snake Falcon and Link full hop are the only things that still dont look right. Other than that I think we got it.

Everyone else should test and give their opinions, but other than those three things I think we have something ready to be released to the public.

I think Snake may need an up grav change, and Link and Falcon may need one more lvl of FH boost and I am happy with it all.

Everyone else?

 

[leafgreen386]

I honestly think that we should just use a global grav mod (ie. 1.15) with a few outliers given their own specific grav values, and then tweak the sh/fj for this grav setting.

We're making this way more complicated than we need to =/

 

[Dark Sonic]

Did you guys check Sonic? His full jump+double jump+up B->uair should be able to hit characters in the bubble (easy check for height of full hop, double jump, and up B heights). SH fair, bair, and uair should auto cancel.(easy check for SH height) Ledgehop fair, bair, and uair should all auto cancel, his SH should be high enough that all of his aerials (even dair) should hit on the platforms, but without Sonic actually getting on the platform.(fine tuning his SH) He should be able to full jump and hit upper platforms with uair, but not bair or fair, and also be able to auto cancel bair, fair, and uair when full hopping onto lower platforms, starting the aerial as he reaches platform height.(fine tuning Full hop). On FD, Sonic should be able to ledgehop dair (off the stage), and up B->wall jump off the lip of FD and make it back (I recommend using buffering for this. fine tunning up B height). I ask you this because I have no way of testing it ATM and I want to make sure he's fixed before releasing the codeset.

 

[The Cape]

I think he plays perfectly fine and it seems he makes all those criteria. Whenever you get a chance to test, try this codeset out and tell me what you think. (I would like to see those last three changes and I think we have a winning set).

RSBE01
Smash Bros Brawl (US)

Brawl+

WiiRD Codes

ALR/Lagless Ledges/Dash Cancel Merge [Phantom Wings/Almas, 46 Lines]
* 80000000 80623320
* 80000001 00000000
* 60000006 00000000
* 60000003 00000001
* 4A001000 00000000
* 4A101001 00000000
* 36000000 00000032
* 58010000 00000004
* DE000000 80008180
* 58010000 00000060
* DE000000 80008180
* 92210006 00000014
* 92210008 00000068
* 9221000A 0000007C
* 9001000E 00000000
* 58010000 000000C4
* 9221000C 00000010
* 4A000000 805A0100
* 9221000D 00000000
* 88A0000C 0000000D
* 4A00100A 00000000
* 30000036 00000018
* 4A001006 00000000
* 9221000D 00000040
* 8890000D 0000000C
* 9421000D 00000040
* E2000001 00000000
* 4800100E 0000007C
* 30000038 00000005
* 4A001008 00000000
* 3400003C BF266666
* 4A001006 00000000
* 14000040 4F000000
* E2000002 00000000
* 4800100E 0000007C
* 30000038 00000074
* 86000006 00000040
* 86910006 40800000
* E2000001 00000000
* 80100001 00000008
* 62000000 00000001
* E200000F 00000000
* 80000001 00000000
* 80100000 00000244
* 62000000 00000000
* E0000000 80008000

Stage reversed (10 lines)
* 4A000000 90000000
* 1416A904 BF800000
* 22623090 00000014
* 22623090 0000001C
* 22623090 0000000B
* 22623090 00000009
* 22623090 00000015
* 22623090 00000006
* 1416A904 3F800000
* E0000000 80008000

ASM Codes

Dash Dancing [Phantom Wings, 5 Lines]
* C271F474 00000004
* 81830058 2C0C000E
* 4182000C C0230040
* 48000008 FC20D090
* 60000000 00000000

Shield Stun [spunit262, 6 Lines]
* C28753FC 00000005
* 83810034 8083013C
* 2C040000 41810014
* 1F9C000B 3B9C0016
* 38800005 7F9C23D6
* 60000000 00000000

P.Trainer No Swap on Death [Y.S./Phantom Wings, 11 Lines]
* C2816AF4 0000000A
* 3E408062 3A523320
* 3A60FFFF 3E730001
* 7E732038 1E730244
* 7E529A14 80120000
* 2C00001D 41800024
* 2C000022 4181001C
* 2C170115 41820014
* 38A5FFFF 2C050000
* 40800008 38A00002
* 7C0802A6 00000000

Autosweetspot Ledges [spunit262, 7 Lines]
* C27812B0 00000006
* 2C04000A 40A20020
* 8181003C 816C0018
* C00B0010 C02B001C
* FC000840 40A10008
* 38000000 5400CFFF
* 60000000 00000000

Hitlag Modifier [Phantom Wings/Almas/spunit262, 8 Lines]
* C2771EAC 00000003
* 1C840005 38840014
* 39C0000A 7C8473D6
* 2C040000 00000000
* C2876220 00000003
* 1C840005 38840014
* 39C0000A 7C8473D6
* 80660064 00000000

Constants

No Stale Moves/Keep Fresh Bonus [spunit262]
* 02FC098A 00110000

Tripping Rate Modifier [KirbyIsCool]
* 0481CB34 C0220020
* 045A9340 00000000

Buffer Modifier [Phantom Wings, spunit262]
* 0485B784 38600001

Triple Jump Fix [Phantom Wings, spunit262]
* 04858DCC 38830003

P.Trainer Infinite Stamina: [Phantom Wings, spunit262]
* 04A8BDAC 60000000

Hitstun [Phantom Wings, spunit262]
* 02B88F48 00030001
* 04B87AA8 3EF851EC

No FF on C stick [spunit262]
* 0485E27C 40A20008

PS Mod [spunit262]
* 04B88F20 00000002

Character Specific Launch Modifiers [Almas, 29 Lines]
* C285765C 0000001C
* 3FA0805A 63BD92C4
* 2C002F00 4082000C
* C3FD0000 480000BC
* 2C002F20 4082000C
* 8083C594 48000034
* 2C002F14 4082000C
* 8083C59C 48000024
* 2C002F40 4082000C
* 8083C574 48000014
* 2C002F5C 41820008
* 4E800020 8083C558
* 3FA0805A 63BD9200
* 83DD0000 57C5463E
* 7C052000 4182001C
* 3BBD0004 3FE0805A
* 63FF929C 7C1DF800
* 4082FFE0 4E800020
* 2C002F20 4082000C
* 57C0673E 48000028
* 2C002F14 4082000C
* 57C0873E 48000018
* 2C002F40 4082000C
* 57C0C73E 48000008
* 57C0A73E 1C000004
* 3FA0805A 63BD929C
* 7FBD0214 C3FD0000
* EC3F0072 4E800020
* 60000000 00000000

Character Specific Gravity Modifier [Almas, 14 Lines]
* C281CAD0 0000000D
* 2C080000 4182003C
* 2C09FFFF 41820034
* 8088F5A0 3D80805A
* 618C9200 80AC0000
* 54A3463E 7C032000
* 4182001C 398C0004
* 3C00805A 600092A0
* 7C0C0000 4082FFE0
* 4E800020 54A5E73E
* 1CA50004 3D80805A
* 618C92A0 7D8C2A14
* C2EC0000 EC370072
* 4E800020 00000000

Constant Write [29 Lines]
* 065A9200 000000DC
* 008664A0 0114F440
* 026864A0 0305C460
* 046764A0 0534E440
* 066844D0 07666480
* 0824C460 098884C0
* 0A6664A0 0B34F440
* 0C3664A0 0D34C460
* 0E666480 0F6664A0
* 116865A0 1234C460
* 133844D0 1444ED40
* 1534C460 1634E440
* 17666480 184664A0
* 196664A0 1A6664A0
* 1B3664A0 1D64C460
* 1E666640 1F34F440
* 2034F440 213664A0
* 226B64A0 236664A0
* 2534E440 2934C440
* 2C5747A0 2E6B64A0
* 2F24DD40 3F4CCCCD
* 3F59999A 3F666666
* 3F733333 3F800000
* 3F833333 3F866666
* 3F89999A 3F8CCCCD
* 3F900000 3F933333
* 3F966666 3F99999A
* 3FA00000 3FA66666
* 3FB33333 00000000

Default settings mod (9 lines)
* 24494A98 80000000
* 20523300 00000000
* 04523300 DEADBEEF
* 42000000 90000000
* 0417F360 00000104
* 0417F364 04000A00
* 0417F368 08010101
* 0417F36C 01000000
* E0000000 80008000

no replay time limit (3 lines)
* 040E5DE8 60000000
* 04953184 60000000
* 04953224 60000000

 

[shanus]

While I agree with you, I ask again, WHY do you want to speed it up? I think it's just a matter of personal preference. Maybe they like it faster than you do. Speed does not inherently fix Brawl's mechanics.

The only 2 mechanics that truly need fixing at this point are air momentum and jab/laser locks. Whats nice is if we think gravity is too high, we can just drop it and adjust short hops /full hops accordingly. This code is very useful, and what we can do is get a public opinion on it and adjust from there. We have very limited opinions in this back room, so a public release with a disclaimer will serve as a great way to figure out the direction people wish to go in. We have total control of if we want Brawl with some small fixes, or a totally revamped brawl which is faster, better, stronger ;-)

 

[Dark Sonic]

The only 2 mechanics that truly need fixing at this point are air momentum and jab/laser locks. Whats nice is if we think gravity is too high, we can just drop it and adjust short hops /full hops accordingly. This code is very useful, and what we can do is get a public opinion on it and adjust from there. We have very limited opinions in this back room, so a public release with a disclaimer will serve as a great way to figure out the direction people wish to go in. We have total control of if we want Brawl with some small fixes, or a totally revamped brawl which is faster, better, stronger ;-)

This really seems like the best way to do it. The success of brawl+ is completely dependent on how it is received by the community. The route we will take it will depend on what the majority wants. In general, it seems that most of them want the game to be a little faster than vBrawl, but let's wait until we get some feedback on our current changes. If they do like our grav changes, then we can expand from there and adjust the other sections as a community (we'll probably end up lowering hitstun or something).

 

[Almas]

Constant Write [29 Lines]
065A9200 000000DC
008664A0 0114F440
026964A0 0305C460
046764A0 0534E440
066844D0 07666480
0824C460 098984C0
0A6664A0 0B34F440
0C3664A0 0D34C460
0E666480 0F6664A0
116865A0 1234C460
133844D0 1444ED40
1534C460 1634E440
17666480 184664A0
196664A0 1A6664A0
1B3664A0 1D64C460
1E666640 1F34F440
2034F440 213664A0
226B64A0 236664A0
2534E440 2934C440
2C5747A0 2E6B6490
2F24DD40 3F4CCCCD
3F59999A 3F666666
3F733333 3F800000
3F833333 3F866666
3F89999A 3F8CCCCD
3F900000 3F933333
3F966666 3F99999A
3FA00000 3FA66666
3FB33333 00000000

Releasing in about an hour, using Cape's set, unless anyone has any final tweaks.

 

[shanus]

KK Almas, please stress that this is meant to be constructive and totally rely on what the public wants from Brawl+. Say if they don't like the grav settings we will readjust, but found this values to be very very enjoyable and add flavor to the game or something.

 

[The Cape]

Feedback is STRONGLY encouraged. This is our first beta release of the "Backroom" set.

It boasts (and please use the specific values):
Hitstun
Sheild Stun
Increased gameplay speed
Automatic L cancels
Personalized Gravity for the characters
Improved Balance
etc

We welcome all feedback that you will provide.

Thats my thoughts on these things, what does everyone think?

Getting on the plane in an hour to fly home!

Edit: Shanus, did you try it?

Edit 2: Almas, have my babies (but dont tell the Army)

Edit 3: Dont forget to post it on the Brawl+ forums too.

 

[MookieRah]

The only 2 mechanics that truly need fixing at this point are air momentum and jab/laser locks.

And grab releases.

@Cape
I'll give this a test later on, I'm about to go to the gym. Hopefully I'll get to play with Brian tonight as well. I would still like to scale back the gravity, I think you are using 1.25 grav for the fast fallers? Either that or 1.2. Anyways, unless we can universally increase the vertical knockback of every move, right now it distorts the properties of every attack in the game for the most part.

 

[The Cape]

And grab releases.

@Cape
I'll give this a test later on, I'm about to go to the gym. Hopefully I'll get to play with Brian tonight as well. I would still like to scale back the gravity, I think you are using 1.25 grav for the fast fallers? Either that or 1.2. Anyways, unless we can universally increase the vertical knockback of every move, right now it distorts the properties of every attack in the game for the most part.

I wont get to play it with people until tonight. So things like that I dont know about.

Do you think we should hold off the release then until after we have had more testing time? The characters feel right to me, but I dont know about the moves since I did not have alot of testing time.

 

[leafgreen386]

Theoretically, it should be possible to get a damage ratio modifier solely for vertical kb. Trajectories might be a little weird, though... you'll have characters stopping their horizontal momentum but still be moving upwards and in a worst case scenario, they'll end up going backwards after the horizontal momentum wears off. The people who were fans of large amounts of gravity back in the day used a damage ratio code set to 1.0625 to offset the effect on vertical moves, although it of course had the side effect of buffing horizontal moves even more. Since we have the run speed code now, though... perhaps it might not be such a bad idea to bring this back... at least the run speed could help offset the effect on combos, although it still wouldn't fix the kill problem. Either way, here are the codes if you wanna try them out.

Damage Ratio P1
4A000000 90180F20
140000E0 XXXXXXXX
E0000000 80008000

Damage Ratio P2
4A000000 90180F7C
140000E0 XXXXXXXX
E0000000 80008000

Damage Ratio P3
4A000000 90180FD8
140000E0 XXXXXXXX
E0000000 80008000

Damage Ratio P4
4A000000 90181034
140000E0 XXXXXXXX
E0000000 80008000

1.0625 in float = 3F880000

I'm actually not sure why, but this code seemed to fall off the face of the earth when the downward and upward grav codes were released. Just because we dropped upgrav changes didn't mean anything as far as this code was concerned, because it was implemented largely as a way to counteract the downgrav.

 

[The Cape]

Well in Melee it was always harder to kill the FFers off the top than anyone else. The increased grav gave them more survivability up, but less to the sides.

Ex: Mario U smash killed Sams at 120% (no DI, FD)
and it killed Fox at 160% (no DI, FD)

It should be that way. I guess lets let it play out and see what happens.
Did anyone try it out with people?

Edit: For people playing with the no decay and fresh bonus for the first time. They will still be killing easier :-p

 

[Deleted member]

I can't twest until like tueseday, though I can provide a stable port tomorrow (not today).
it would be nice if we released at the same time for both regions, but that is up to almas

 

[Almas]

Paprika, do you have some method by which I can contact you (MSN/AIM)? That way, I can start a new thread, and you can take one of the first 2 posts to maintain an updated European version of the codeset without having to go through me every time.

 

[The Cape]

Sounds like a winning plan.

Almas, are you ready to release?

(Big <3 for Big <3)

 

[Almas]

Just waiting for Paprika's response, really. Seems like everything is prepared. I'll lower hitstun to 0.48 instead of .485, though.

 

[The Cape]

Thats a good idea, the increased Gravity will kind of need that. Good call.

What do you have in the description of the codeset?

 

[Deleted member]

ok, send my adress, just wanna know if you go by the name of Cap'n P, almas.

 

[MookieRah]

Well in Melee it was always harder to kill the FFers off the top than anyone else. The increased grav gave them more survivability up, but less to the sides.

That's why if we were to adjust the vertical knockback then we would adjust it to the characters that are in the normal range of gravities. That makes floaties more succeptable to vertical KOs and the fast fallers more succeptible to horizontal KOs. That way everything barring the guys with vBrawl floatyness won't die via horizontal 90% of the time.

Also, I lowered my hitstun to .47 and it was great. I was using .48 without the gravity codes in place. Trust me, .47 is gold, you can still perform combos. .485 was WAY too much.

 

[shanus]

Feedback is STRONGLY encouraged. This is our first beta release of the "Backroom" set.

It boasts (and please use the specific values):
Hitstun
Sheild Stun
Increased gameplay speed
Automatic L cancels
Personalized Gravity for the characters
Improved Balance
etc

We welcome all feedback that you will provide.

Thats my thoughts on these things, what does everyone think?

Getting on the plane in an hour to fly home!

Edit: Shanus, did you try it?

Edit 2: Almas, have my babies (but dont tell the Army)

Edit 3: Dont forget to post it on the Brawl+ forums too.

I only to test it for like 10 minutes but I liked what I felt. Later tonight I'll get you a more in depth analysis when my roommates are back.

 

[The Cape]

Well the increased gravity is propotional to their regular falling speed. DDD, Bowser, and DK will actually be relatively easy to kill off the top (theoretically)

Edit: Love Shanus

More testing from me (with people) tonight as well.

 

[MookieRah]

Well the increased gravity is propotional to their regular falling speed. DDD, Bowser, and DK will actually be relatively easy to kill off the top (theoretically)

We can increase their weight via char specific codes if need be.

 

[The Cape]

We can increase their weight via char specific codes if need be.

I always thought gravity affected people dying off the top and weight affected people dying off the side.

Edit: Ok, shutting down and getting on the plane. May have time to talk again in Charlotte.

 

[Deleted member]

ok, sonce this all sounds so ggod,, I'm just gonna port it for the hell of it. I'll report in an hour what I think of it.

 

[leafgreen386]

I always thought gravity affected people dying off the top and weight affected people dying off the side.

Edit: Ok, shutting down and getting on the plane. May have time to talk again in Charlotte.

It does. Weight plays into both, but gravity only has an effect on vertical kills. Since reg brawl is so floaty, though, the differences between the different characters' fall speeds is more or less negligible. With higher gravities like we're using, it becomes a lot more apparent.

 

[MookieRah]

I always thought gravity affected people dying off the top and weight affected people dying off the side.

Yeah, like Leaf said it does both, but since those guys are not having any gravity increases they are floatier than just about everyone, so adding weight to them will give them a good bit more defense against upward KOs. It will make them slightly more susceptible to horizontal KOs, but it won't be a huge difference. Basically, think of it a seesaw with vertical and horizontal KO range, the idea is to make it so that both are balanced in the middle rather than one being dominant.

 

[leafgreen386]

For those who haven't already seen the thread... http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=220363

Considering this is where we're getting our feedback from, I think it'd be good if everyone keeps an eye on it.

Currently it looks like making some characters as floaty as we did wasn't too well-received, and it seems a few values that we thought we had fixed are still having some big issues.

I've said it before, but I think we really need to rethink how we're gonna do this. Imo, it would be best if most characters had around the same grav value, and we just adjust their sh and fj/dj heights as appropriate, and then change a couple outliers that need a vastly different grav. Brawl already has differences in fall acceleration and top fall speed. It's just not really brought out as much due to the low grav in regular brawl, but at higher grav values, it does become more apparent.

 

[MookieRah]

Brawl already has differences in fall acceleration and top fall speed. It's just not really brought out as much due to the low grav in regular brawl, but at higher grav values, it does become more apparent.

Yeah, that's true. I think a more universal approach is better after all this.