New things on landing lag.

[∫unk]

First, I think there might be 2 kinds of landing lag related to dolphin slash. One is long, nasty, and you're about to get *****. We'll call this major landing lag. The animation Marth does is exactly like landing from a DS on stage. The other is much less noticeable... but it still affects you. We'll call this minor landing lag.

If you do a landing special after a dolphin slash to the ledge (as in, do a landing counter/db/shieldbreaker after you grab the ledge with ds), you always get major landing lag on your next jump. This will carry over if you continue using landing specials.

So if you do:
1) DS to grab the ledge
2) ledge jump shieldbreaker (you might have to charge it... you have have to land while the special is being executed. depends on how high your ledge jump was.)
3) sh shieldbreaker (same thing here... it's easier if you just do sh db full combo if you want to see the effect every time)
4) repeat 1000x
5) next time you do an empty short hop you'll have major landing lag.

There's also minor landing lag... you get this every time you DS the ledge. It's most noticeable when you try to buffer actions out of empty ledge jumps. Try running after a ledge jump with no DS before, then try the same thing but DS to grab the ledge right before. Marth usually ends up walking because you input the forward command too fast...

I know for a fact you can get major landing lag just DSing the ledge then doing an empty ledge hop... but I'm not sure how you trigger it before hand.

This is where you come in. Help figure out why Marth (and any other characters with this problem) gets major landing lag.

My guesses: has to do with specials, on stage DS, off stage DS, auto-sweet spotting vs grabbing the ledge after the full dolphin slash. Play around and hopefully you find a way to get it every time so maybe the situation can be avoided.

If this is already known (most likely through some other character) I apologize.

 

[stingers]

This happens with every character in the game who sweetspots the ledge with their up-b. The game stores your lag for some reason after hitting the ledge with your up-b. Only characters with lagless up-bs dont have to worry about it really.

 

[∫unk]

i am well aware of that

i am pointing at new things if you read my thread

 

[stingers]

This is where you come in. Help figure out why Marth (and any other characters with this problem) gets major landing lag.

What's there to figure out? It just happens. The game stores the landing lag until you actually land. It's just how it works.

 

[∫unk]

... You didn't read the thread or you don't understand so I can't help you.

If you just ds to the ledge then do a ledge jump te landing lag is much different than if you do a falling special from a ledge jump.

The minor landing lag is almost unnoticeable what you're talkin about is major landing lag. If you ds the ledge then jump back on without doing anything else the landing lag is minimal. There's something else that triggers it.

You can test this yourself in training mode or I can send you a replay or show you on wifi.

And do other characters keep their landing lag when they do landing specials?if this was known among other characters I apologize but it still isn't well known among marths

 

[stingers]

why did you ask why marth gets "major landing lag" if that wasn't the point of your topic

 

[∫unk]

Sometimes he does for a reason I don't know (right after a ledge jump) so I am asking.

Usually it's minor but sometimes it's major.

I guess I wasn't clear enough but hopefully that clears it up.

 

[feardragon64]

So basically you were asking when is it major landing lag and when is it minor?
I dunno but I think the solution is to just uair/do a normal aerial every time you could have any landing lag since that gets rid of the entire problem.

 

[∫unk]

Yeah but if u had te option of airdodging on stage without major landing lag think about how nice that would be

If we figure this out marth will have more options in his worst position... Something to look into no?

 

[Big O]

I think you get minor lag if you short hop and major lag if you full hop. That's how it is for Ganon anyway.

 

[Reizilla]

i can't check right now, but does this build or anything when you're say doing the ledge re-grab trick? or does it matter how much of the dolphin slash you do before sweet-spotting it?

 

[Shaya]

If you dolphin slash:

You keep your lag if you:
LEDGE JUMP

YOU DONT GET LAG IF YOU:
Fall from the ledge and jump back onto the stage (i.e. use mid air jump = risky = you lose it you're screwed).

It has nothing to do with whether you auto sweetspot it, or whatever crap.

It -may- have to do with hard/soft landings. Every character hard lands if they do a full hop, soft landings if they do a short hop. For Marth its 2 frames for soft landing, 4 for hard. Maybe you keep the ds lag if you hard land, iono.

 

[Remzi]

If you do a landing special after a dolphin slash to the ledge (as in, do a landing counter/db/shieldbreaker after you grab the ledge with ds), you always get major landing lag on your next jump. This will carry over if you continue using landing specials.

This is news to me, the rest I knew.

Not sure if it's common knowledge or not. The tidbit I quoted is pretty interesting though, why the hell does that happen?

 

[-Cross-]

If you dolphin slash:

You keep your lag if you:
LEDGE JUMP

YOU DONT GET LAG IF YOU:
Fall from the ledge and jump back onto the stage (i.e. use mid air jump = risky = you lose it you're screwed).

It has nothing to do with whether you auto sweetspot it, or whatever crap.

It -may- have to do with hard/soft landings. Every character hard lands if they do a full hop, soft landings if they do a short hop. For Marth its 2 frames for soft landing, 4 for hard. Maybe you keep the ds lag if you hard land, iono.

Like Shaya suggested, major landing lag actually does have to do with soft/hard landings. DS landing lag has the same thing: a hard landing animation and a soft landing animation. So you get major landing lag depending from how high you are relative to the surface you are planning to land on and also of course if you fast fall or not.

Example: On BF if you ledge jump and land on the stage then you have major landing lag, but I believe if you ledge jump and land on the shorter platform then (I believe) you only have the shorter landing lag.

Summary: DS lag depends on whether you had a hard/soft landing, and the situation can never be avoided (unless you cancel it with aerial landing lag). Therefore Marth never has the option of air dodging and landing from the edge, if he DS's at any point in his recovery to the edge.

Besides the point, wasn't this known in the beginning of brawl?

Edit: And at Zombie's question, no the lag doesn't "build up." It's the same whether you do 1 DS or 20 DS's to grab the ledge

 

[∫unk]

Can ppl just try what I described and READ CAREFULLY before theorycrafting me to death? :/

you can get major landing lag off of any jump

I don't think air dodging on stage with minor landing lag is such a bad option that I wouldn't use it. Major landing lag i wouldn't consider it at all.

 

[-Cross-]

You're asking how to avoid step 5 right?
"5) next time you do an empty short hop you'll have major landing lag."

That statement isn't true. You only have major landing lag if you FF the empty SH. If you don't you only have minor landing lag. You only get major landing lag if you FF or fall from a distance greater than a normal SH (or something around that) after you used a DS @ any point in time and didn't land on the ground.

 

[Reizilla]

i don't remember if this was mentioned or not, but i'm pretty sure even if you get hit, you'll still get ds lag when you land.