New Smash Bros for WiiU

[Starphoenix]

THANK YOU! I'm not the only one around here who feels that way. Everyone always assume I hate Megaman games (I don't, they're fun and challenging for n00bs like me) but it's his hardcore fans who basically act like he's already been announced for SSB4 and no other 3rd party should be talked about. It's been a while since someone has done that though. Thankfully.



How do you feel about Kanan/Elza?

Hey, I bring up Slime (or Slime and Chocobo) and I get shot down. Even when I bring up valid reason and points that prove he can be versatile enough to fight.

As far as Kanan/Elza, I think they have a chance. But I feel Nintendo will gravitate more towards Xenoblade. As it stands now The Last Story has sold a little better than Xenoblade, but neither game has gone aboe 200k in Japan. Which isn't so hot. Since I brought up Golden Sun the series did sell much better when it debuted. The sales of both titles may change when they debut in Europe, but probably not too significantly.

Difference is the Japanese economy and gaming industry is an entirely different field then it was even back then. So that has a lot to do with it too.

Isn't Golden Sun developed by Camelot? While Camelot has a good relationship with Nintendo, they aren't a subsidiary, if I recall correctly, making them a third party, complicating the possibility of including a Golden Sun character. Perhaps I'm mistaken.

If that were the case we shouldn't have had Isaac in Brawl. lol

No, that isn't really as much of an issue. It is a Nintendo IP through and through.

 

[Artsy Omni]

I'm fairly confident about Mario.

Har Har. You know what I meant.

 

[Barbasol]

At least someone is giving Paper Mario an antagonist. Rawk Hawk wants revenge! >:3
Sadly the reality is Rawk Hawk is a lesser boss of the series.

True, but he's one of the more popular characters that have cropped up. I'd like to see a unique character come in as a Paper Mario rep rather than PM himself. IMO.

I think we might see some trends when the new Paper Mario for 3DS comes out... currently there's no(?) recurring characters other than the paper versions of characters.

 

[Artsy Omni]

Just a random note, thinking about Isaac....

I'm really excited about every character asset, be it playable, AT, boss, etc, having separate fingers. =P

 

[---]

Yeah, in the same vein as the Megaman deal, I'm getting sick of people acting like there are some characters who are bound to get in and if you disagree you're stupid. Characters like Ridley, Bowser Jr/Toad, King K Rool, a 5th Gen Pokemon, etc.

I really would like to pay attention to flavour characters! It's not all probability and character representation! Why not talk about characters we want!

Unless we have a good non-flaming debate I agree with that. But we don't want to get carrried away in the same vein as other SSB4 hype threads with characters we know have no chance of getting in.

I refuse to let myself become confident in high probability of a character's inclusion. I'll let people know if I think a character doesn't have a good chance, and I'll try to back it with reasoning, but there's not a single character I'm actually confident about.

I wish I could do that, but with all the debates and flaming it's hard to although I at least I try to take in everything with a grain of salt.

 

[MechaWave]

True, but he's one of the more popular characters that have cropped up. I'd like to see a unique character come in as a Paper Mario rep rather than PM himself. IMO.

I think we might see some trends when the new Paper Mario for 3DS comes out... currently there's no(?) recurring characters other than the paper versions of characters.

Well Paper Mario has a lot of rep to be in SSB4 because he just fits in so great with the Smash series and the uniqueness that can come with him (unless Sakurai is an ******* who makes him a clone). Luckily the 3DS version is coming out next year so there's a whole bunch of new material. And Intelligent Systems (the developer of the PM series) keeps many things secret in the public. Seriously, check out the trailers for the games there's nothing given away besides PM himself.

And right now the partners seen in PM3DS are two very generic Mario characters that are probably there for filler.

 

[Starphoenix]

Btw, new stage concept incoming.

 

[Barbasol]

Well Paper Mario has a lot of rep to be in SSB4. Luckily the 3DS version is coming out next year so there's a whole bunch of new material. And Intelligent Systems (the developer of the PM series) keeps many things secret in the public. Seriously, check out the trailers for the games there's nothing given away besides PM himself.

And right now the partners seen in PM3DS are two very generic Mario characters that are probably there for filler.

Oh nice, I didn't know there WERE trailers out. Ima go look it up.

BTW, I love Intelligent Systems more and more; Fire Emblem, Advance Wars, Paper Mario... great company

 

[Shorts]

Hey, I bring up Slime (or Slime and Chocobo) and I get shot down. Even when I bring up valid reason and points that prove he can be versatile enough to fight.

Those two characters actually have good reasoning behind them, as well as a lot of cross over history with Nintendo. Square and Nintendo are closer than Capcom and Nintendo, as far as I know. I think a Square character has a solid chance at SSB4. A lot more solid than someone like Bomberman from Hudson soft. (Although I wish this wasn't true) In general, a lot of characters have valid reasoning besides being a fan favorite, and Square characters has arguably the best relationship with Nintendo.

As far as Kanan/Elza, I think they have a chance. But I feel Nintendo will gravitate more towards Xenoblade. As it stands now The Last Story has sold a little better than Xenoblade, but neither game has gone aboe 200k in Japan. Which isn't so hot. Since I brought up Golden Sun the series did sell much better when it debuted. The sales of both titles may change when they debut in Europe, but probably not too significantly.

Difference is the Japanese economy and gaming industry is an entirely different field then it was even back then. So that has a lot to do with it too.

Well that's good news, now I just hope the rumors are true, so I can get a hold of the game. Is it just me or does Kanan seem to be the face of the series? I try to stay out of economic talk, I know nothing about it. . .

characters we know have no chance of getting in.

But there is a major difference between Slime/Bomberman/Sora/Jill/Ivy and Goku. All most fanboys see is their character.

 

[MechaWave]

Oh nice, I didn't know there WERE trailers out. Ima go look it up.

BTW, I love Intelligent Systems more and more; Fire Emblem, Advance Wars, Paper Mario... great company

Yep: http://www.mariowiki.com/Paper_Mario_(Nintendo_3DS)#External_Links.

Also Intelligent Systems is a great company, probably the best company Nintendo has.

 

[Hoots]

Here's a preview of what I've been working on for you DKC fans.

 

[Artsy Omni]

I would love a Paper Mario character getting in. Ideally Paper Mario himself, as he feels so different as a character from Mario. Sakurai would have to be crazy and lazy (clazy?) to make him a Mario clone.

I wish Bomberman were actually relevant in this day and age... seems like the only people who care about him are people who played his games on the N64 and prior, and were young enough to not care about the low design standards for the 64 titles (like me).

And Hudson went under.... Meh...

Long live Bomberman.

....man, what was I thinking, shading those feet like that? o.0

 

[Kantrip]

Here's a preview of what I've been working on for you DKC fans.

I'm obviously interested... but... what is this?

 

[MechaWave]

I would love a Paper Mario character getting in. Ideally Paper Mario himself, as he feels so different as a character from Mario. Sakurai would have to be crazy and lazy (clazy?) to make him a Mario clone.

I wish Bomberman were actually relevant in this day and age... seems like the only people who care about him are people who played his games on the N64 and prior, and were young enough to not care about the low design standards for the 64 titles (like me).

Yup, even more rep for him. xD Sakurai better not make him a clone or I'll stab him.

Thanks for reminding me about Bomberman. I'd like him in SSB4. I remember playing Bomberman 64 as a child and always dying.

Oh my god Hex I just noticed your avatar is in Paper Mario style! ^____^ I love you! *saves* :3333 I Paper Mario.

 

[Big-Cat]

Hex, what kind of art direction should the next Smash go for so it doesn't seem bland and/or feel that it belongs in a Kirby game?

 

[Barbasol]

Yep: http://www.mariowiki.com/Paper_Mario_(Nintendo_3DS)#External_Links.

Also Intelligent Systems is a great company, probably the best company Nintendo has.

Ah nice, looks charming as usual.

I dunno, I was really a fan of the RPG style that the Thousand Year Door had... especially that crowd and stage mechanic. I wish that would return, otherwise it's just another Mario... IMO

 

[Shorts]

I wish Bomberman were actually relevant in this day and age... seems like the only people who care about him are people who played his games on the N64 and prior, and were young enough to not care about the low design standards for the 64 titles (like me).

And Hudson went under.... Meh...

Long live Bomberman.

....man, what was I thinking, shading those feet like that? o.0

I know. I was a major Bomberman fan. His 64 games were amazing. The villians were beyond Bad ***. I've been a Bomberman fan since I learned how to write, so I share your feeling, believe me.

It's funny how much of your artwork I've seen. I used to have that picture as my Avatar on this site 0.0

 

[soviet prince]

well some tidbit paper mario is blowing out every other character in the popularity poll with 111 poll submissions so far, I will be getting the main poll up soon just need to add some things here or there

http://booroo.com/s.asp?sid=dwi2hgezamk0ynk13709

 

[Hoots]

I'm obviously interested... but... what is this?

Song contest for League of Legends. My band's name is the DK Animal Buddies because all of our game names are the 5 animal buddies in the picture that correspond to which instruments we play.

Anyways, I would really be looking forward to the new Paper Mario if I was actually considering getting a 3DS soon. It just seems like such a waste until stuff Luigi's mansion is out for it. Although I think Bowser Jr. is probably more likely, Paper Mario is my favorite non Geno Mario rep.

 

[MechaWave]

I dunno, I was really a fan of the RPG style that the Thousand Year Door had... especially that crowd and stage mechanic. I wish that would return, otherwise it's just another Mario... IMO

It is in the RPG style unlike Super Paper Mario. Remember Intelligent Systems hides a lot, they didn't even show the bottom screen.

 

[Barbasol]

Hex, what kind of art direction should the next Smash go for so it doesn't seem bland and/or feel that it belongs in a Kirby game?

Having played Kirby Air Ride, when I picked up Brawl I immediately thought, "Wow, this design is uninspired."

Much like KAR (Wow, just noticed that), it was crammed with lots of redundant features. I'm betting these were all added when preproduction began, and the design document was lacking a specific vision so many people's different ideas were thrown in as filler.

 

[Artsy Omni]

Hex, what kind of art direction should the next Smash go for so it doesn't seem bland and/or feel that it belongs in a Kirby game?

I've actually got a blog post lined up to discuss art style, but to give you a short version, I would love to see something like what Pixar calls "simplexity." Where characters have simplistic form, but the surfaces have realistic textures. Like in UP. That way, every character can have a level of fidelity that is unified, without having to sacrifice color.

But that, of course, is my own idea. I have no idea what to expect.

 

[Barbasol]

I've actually got a blog post lined up to discuss art style, but to give you a short version, I would love to see something like what Pixar calls "simplexity." Where characters have simplistic form, but the surfaces have realistic textures. Like in UP. That way, every character can have a level of fidelity that is unified, without having to sacrifice color.

But that, of course, is my own idea. I have no idea what to expect.

This. This. This. This.

That reminds me of the rule about good character design: You should be able to recognize a character by their silouette. Many newcomers feel lost with the small characters on big screen feel. And if Team Fortress has shown us anything, when a character is identifiable by it's silouette, when battle comes along, it really pays off.

 

[Starphoenix]

Those two characters actually have good reasoning behind them, as well as a lot of cross over history with Nintendo. Square and Nintendo are closer than Capcom and Nintendo, as far as I know. I think a Square character has a solid chance at SSB4. A lot more solid than someone like Bomberman from Hudson soft. (Although I wish this wasn't true) In general, a lot of characters have valid reasoning besides being a fan favorite, and Square characters has arguably the best relationship with Nintendo.

But there is a major difference between Slime/Bomberman/Sora/Jill/Ivy and Goku. All most fanboys see is their character.

That is the difference, just because I enjoy a character does not mean I let it cloud my judgement. Personally I'd prefer a lot of things that have no chance of happening. It's just when it comes to Slime I know how he would function and everything inside my head. Getting others to see that isn't so easy. They see his lack of limbs and just react with snide comments about hos ludicrous it is. Never mind the fact that he is apparently good enough to play basketball, dodgeball, hockey and volleyball in Mario Sports Mix. Seriously, the thing can kick!


But alas... People's lack of ability to see outside the box disturbs me.... Plus, there is also this:
[COLLAPSE="Counts for something"]

[/COLLAPSE]

 

[Shorts]

I've actually got a blog post lined up to discuss art style, but to give you a short version, I would love to see something like what Pixar calls "simplexity." Where characters have simplistic form, but the surfaces have realistic textures. Like in UP. That way, every character can have a level of fidelity that is unified, without having to sacrifice color.

But that, of course, is my own idea. I have no idea what to expect.

I would have to see this executed on a Nintendo character, I just. . . can't get passed the word Pixar.

Paper Mario is about 50 votes behind Bowser Jr, and 100 votes behind Toad, so he's pretty popular.

 

[MechaWave]

well some tidbit paper mario is blowing out every other character in the popularity poll with 111 poll submissions so far, I will be getting the main poll up soon just need to add some things here or there

http://booroo.com/s.asp?sid=dwi2hgezamk0ynk13709

Good ****. But how are you supposed to know the results? o_o

 

[Barbasol]

That is the difference, just because I enjoy a character does not mean I let it cloud my judgement. Personally I'd prefer a lot of things that have no chance of happening. It's just when it comes to Slime I know how he would function and everything inside my head. Getting others to see that isn't so easy. They see his lack of limbs and just react with snide comments about hos ludicrous it is. Never mind the fact that he is apparently good enough to play basketball, dodgeball, hockey and volleyball in Mario Sports Mix. Seriously, the thing can kick!


But alas... People's lack of ability to see outside the box disturbs me....

So how does he move around? I assume he bounces along? How does he manipulate objects? Does he grow elastic limbs or what?

 

[Artsy Omni]

I would have to see this executed on a Nintendo character, I just. . . can't get passed the word Pixar.

I take it you don't like Pixar's design philosophy or something?

So how does he move around? I assume he bounces along? How does he manipulate objects? Does he grow elastic limbs or what?

Well he does have a mouth. He could hold items in his mouth, or carry things over his head, in the case of crates, etc. Not that I'm pushing for Slime, but it's not hard to see how he would operate.

 

[Artsy Omni]

Whoops... apparently I hit the wrong button. +_+

 

[Big-Cat]

I've actually got a blog post lined up to discuss art style, but to give you a short version, I would love to see something like what Pixar calls "simplexity." Where characters have simplistic form, but the surfaces have realistic textures. Like in UP. That way, every character can have a level of fidelity that is unified, without having to sacrifice color.

But that, of course, is my own idea. I have no idea what to expect.

That kind of reminds me of this one story book I had when I was little where you felt the different textures that were on top of hand drawn cartoon characters. Personally, I think this is something that should be embraced and I feel the Nintendo characters get a lot of justice from this. Heck you can see this in Tekken and Final Fantasy. The real details in the characters are in the hair and clothes.

I'd like to see Samus and Zelda with realistic type hair (not so sure with Peach) while maintaining their original art styles. Speaking of Samus, she needs that sleeked out, non crotch-bulging powersuit in the next game.

 

[Shorts]

I take it you don't like Pixar's design philosophy or something?

I'm just not a big fan of their fanboys I went to school and I had a lot of classes with this same group of boys who thought that Pixar was gods gift to us. I mean, they're good for children's movies, but those boys really bugged me. "You like THAT MOVIE!?". >.>

I have bad luck with fanboys, if you haven't noticed.

I'd like to see Samus and Zelda with realistic type hair (not so sure with Peach) while maintaining their original art styles. Speaking of Samus, she needs that sleeked out, non crotch-bulging powersuit in the next game.

FUTAAAAA.

 

[Artsy Omni]

I'm just not a big fan of their fanboys I went to school and I had a lot of classes with this same group of boys who thought that Pixar was gods gift to us. I mean, they're good for children's movies, but those boys really bugged me. "You like THAT MOVIE!?". >.>

I have bad luck with fanboys, if you haven't noticed.

I just don't let fanboys bother me. Sonic fanboys are the worst, but I still like Sonic as a character, and I think his games are decent fun... at least recently.

Just imagine Mario with a subtle texture on his shirt and overalls, with wrinkles in his sleeves where his elbow joint is. His hair can remain clumped, but the separations of the hairs could become apparent when light is reflected. The shoes would look like typical leather work boots. The gold clasps would look like a real metal.

It would all be very subtle, mind you. The real trick would be how everything is lit. Lighting brings a level of fidelity that textures couldn't dream of bringing.

Here's a picture I cropped that highlights some of the textural elements that I'm talking about:

 

[soviet prince]

I know the results because I created the poll

well there will be a new poll I have decided to make it multi choose and I combined 3rd party and none represented nintendo franchises into one category, but before I launch the new one anyone see anything missing character wise?

 

[MechaWave]

I know the results because I created the poll

well there will be a new poll I have decided to make it multi choose and I combined 3rd party and none represented nintendo franchises into one category, but before I launch the new one anyone see anything missing character wise?

Please use a different website so that users can see the results. That's all I can say.

 

[Starphoenix]

So how does he move around? I assume he bounces along? How does he manipulate objects? Does he grow elastic limbs or what?

Yes, he always moves in hopping, here is a video of him in Mario Sports Mix:
http://youtu.be/7XojkXZj81M?t=24s

He has been shown picking up items and characters. He ususally throws them on top of his head (body?). You just have to see him to understand. Also, a good reference is the Rocket Slime games as he does a lot of carrying and moving in them.

Well he does have a mouth. He could hold items in his mouth, or carry things over his head, in the case of crates, etc. Not that I'm pushing for Slime, but it's not hard to see how he would operate.

Again, Mario Sports Mix.

That weird animation at the bottom is actually Slime "kicking" Waluigi, or trying too anyways. The top one was shrunken down quite a bit...

 

[Barbasol]

I know the results because I created the poll

well there will be a new poll I have decided to make it multi choose and I combined 3rd party and none represented nintendo franchises into one category, but before I launch the new one anyone see anything missing character wise?

Yup, though this is by my own opinion:
- Paper Mario maybe shouldn't be in Mario, but rather as a new series. Aaaaand, this is my own request, but maybe put Paper Mario, Rawk Hawk, Doopliss, or None. I've seen substantial requests for all three around the web.
- K.K. Slider along with Tom Nook, as well as Animal Crosser
- Deathborn in F-Zero

 

[MechaWave]

Yup, though this is by my own opinion:
- Paper Mario maybe shouldn't be in Mario

Yeah. You don't see Donkey Kong/Wario in Mario. Paper Mario is a sub-franchise just as well, but not to a great extent as DK/Wario. That is why I mentioned his symbol is a paper airplane, the series' signature.

 

[Shorts]

You just have to see him to understand.

Exactly. Once you see him, you will realize how he will play. So you'll need a better argument then "He has no limbs". Which is weirdly used for Victini, believe it or not. Although it is more "His limbs are too small!"

@Hexy

I get it, it would look nice no doubt about that. I was just picturing Woody at first. I find that anything really art oriented would look weird. Like, the water color or paintbrush strokes that SF uses would be out of place for an all video game character game. I mean in MvC3 a comic book look is perfect, but that would be out of place for Mario.

 

[Hoots]

Yeah. You don't see Donkey Kong/Wario in Mario. Paper Mario is a sub-franchise just as well, but not to a great extent as DK/Wario. That is why I mentioned his symbol is a paper airplane, the series' signature.

I dunno. A paper airplane seems a little grasping at straws.

 

[Barbasol]

Yes, he always moves in hopping, here is a video of him in Mario Sports Mix:
http://youtu.be/7XojkXZj81M?t=24s

He has been shown picking up items and characters. He ususally throws them on top of his head (body?). You just have to see him to understand. Also, a good reference is the Rocket Slime games as he does a lot of carrying and moving in them.

Oookay, that's actually a good reference video there.

I'm not sure how appealing Slime would be on his own... I find him extremely generic considering he's a droplet with eyes... Hey, I guess I'm wrong considering his popularity in Japan. But I love the idea of the Chocobo team up, that quells my generic concern there.