New Smash Bros for WiiU

[Deleted member]

I wasn't ranting. Didn't you see the "not even mad" pic?
As I said before, I say a lot.

 

[Johnknight1]

Shaddup Golden. Rant more. Talk a lot. Be mad. I like you mad!

I forgot where I read this but Balloon Fighter is from the same region of the same universe as the Ice Climbers.

Nope. It is just that the world of Balloon Fight takes place over water and occasionally ice and icy land. That and the Brawl stage "The Summit" uses the Balloon Fight fish.

Although if that were somehow true, at least it would make some sense. I mean, both take place in tundra-esk locations with repeating levels!

 

[Shorts]

See, it shouldn't even be that, because both series are so diametrically opposed. If anything, as I am going to say for the third time, if any series "threatens" Golden Sun/Isaac it is going to be Xenoblade/Shulk. Two blond haired swordsman from Nintendo RPGs that have special abilities they can use. Simplifying I know, but I think everyone can get my point.

You can kiss Isaac goodbye.

 

[~automatic]

Nope. It is just that the world of Balloon Fight takes place over water and occasionally ice and icy land. That and the Brawl stage "The Summit" uses the Balloon Fight fish.

lol I forgot about the fish in the Summit stage. Maybe that's why I was under that assumption, lolz. Btw, there was an Ice Climber+Balloon Fight cartridge for the NES in Japan but that doesn't necessarily mean much, if anything.

 

[Johnknight1]

Xenoblade Chronicles isn't very popular outside of close-knit RPG fans. It also hurts that it is the first game of the IP, and perhaps the last (hopefully not).

Golden Sun is a fairly well-known IP, that of course has helped been built up on of time and two (I'd argue) classic titles.

Granted, I would not mind Shulk getting in over Isaac. Of course, that is my opinion on the situation.

If we get another Xenoblades Chronicle IP game/sequel, this would change my view of the scenario drastically.

@ ~automatic
HAHA, that's funny they were packaged together. Both games were made by Nintendo R&D1 back in 1984 and 1985. Nowadays obviously a few Balloon Fighter songs play on all the Ice Climber stages in smash bros. Sakurai must have known that. That sly dog.

 

[ViperGold42]

You can kiss Isaac goodbye.

Isaac really wasn't in it to best honest.

 

[Johnknight1]

By the way, the more I "figure out" the little stuff Sakurai has put in Smash Bros., the more I realize Sakurai is a living, walking, encyclopedia of Nintendo knowledge and history.

Heck, he uses Smash Bros., its' playable characters, items, stages, trophies, stickers, and really everything as a personal museum for all this Nintendo knowledge, history, and facts that only a true bred fan would know! Seriously, Sakurai is a major Wario Ware, Fire Emblem, Metal Gear, MOTHER/EarthBound, and Star Fox super fan.

 

[---]

How I see it is that the attention right now is on Shulk rather than Issac. As I doubt Operation Rainfall when unnoticed by a lot of developers especially those related to Nintendo, and Xenoblade was more or less the lead title in it.

With interest being the name of the game and Issac's series success didn't get him much in Brawl and Dark Dawn having gone off the radar. Currently I see Shulk as the better bet I guess, he's certainly gotten better timing than Issac too.

 

[Johnknight1]

Yeah, Shulk and Xenoblade Chronicles definitely win in the timing department. The timing of said games' release (internationally) is perfect if Shulk is playable in Smash 4.

I have yet to play Xenoblade Chronicles, so I don't have a defined opinion on it. However, I do know outside of the close-knitted Japanese RPG internet communities and some super dedicated Nintendo fan sites, there doesn't seem like there is much discussion or care for Xenoblade Chronicles. Heck, it needed a fan operation just to get it to leave Japan and be released internationally. That seems more like it should be a "stepping stone" for the IP's growth rather than the conclusion.

I remember back when I saw in middle school when Golden Sun 1 and 2 came out, it seemed like every male my age give or take 5 years had a defined opinion on the game (almost universally from what I could tell people liked it, although mostly they didn't like it enough to buy it, or didn't own a GBA). Even Dark Dawn was quite popular for its' release, and I saw quite a few middle aged school males playing it. Not as much as before back in the old days when few kids had a cell phone, but a noticeable amount.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

The Wii has lacked any decent RPG titles recently in my opinion. So, Xenoblade is a rather nice addition to the selection. That's really all it is actually. Golden Sun 3 had an intentional cliffhanger if my memory serves right, so there might be another game release by the time smash is further in development.

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

So if Isaac were to make it into Smash 4, what kind of attacks would he have?
I don't know anything about the Golden Sun series.

Here is a Isaac move set I wrote up:

[COLLAPSE="moveset"]Specials

Move is Isaac’s standard B move. It works much like how it did in Super Smash Bros. Brawl , however, Issac is able to charge the attack to make it go longer. Pressing B will cause it to travel for 2 seconds however charging it will cause it to travel for 6 seconds. However, Move does slightly less knock back then the assist trophy version. It can be done in the air but not running since Isaac will stop. As before, it does no damage however, the higher the percentage of an opponent, the more knock back the push does. It cannot be canceled by another attack but a shield can by-pass the move. When does in the air, the hand is angled downward and is a possible Meteor Smash if the opponent is 50% or higher.

Mad Growth is Isaac’s Side B move. Isaac thrusts his hands on the ground and a tangle of plants and thorns erupt and shoot forward on the ground. The attack will continue until it hits a ledge so it’s best to do it while on a long level. It can be canceled by an another attack. Every time it hits, it causes 4% damage for each hit and once an opponent is hit, will will juggle the opponent as it travels the stage. It is best to use against opponents with lower percentages. It can done in midair too but only travels for 4 seconds and angles downward as it travels. It causes vertical and horizontal knockback.

Retreat is Isaac’s Up B movie. Retreat is much like Zelda’s Farore’s Wind attack. A magical ring appears around Isaac and he vanishes from the screen. Direct the movement of this attack by tilting the control stick to the desired spot to teleport to. Once Isaac re-appears, psyenergy will push out causing high knock back for opponents near him as well as an additional 3% damage. The ending lag in the end is shortened allowing Isaac to attack afterward.

Spire is Isaac’s Down B move. Isaac will thrust his hands up and a great earthen stalagmite will thrust upwards from the ground. The harder the player tilts the control stick down determines the distance of that the spire will come from the ground. Tilting slightly down will cause it to come out in front of Isaac while pushing to the control stick to its farthest possible point will cause it to thrust a space of half a medium sized stage. It does two hits of damage each at 8% damage thus totaling at 16% damage. Does very high vertical knock back and potential KO. When Spire is done in mid-air, it thrusts out like a spear from Isaac’s hand. However, it does not travel like it does on the ground.

Ragnarok is Issac’s Final Smash. The first strike will cause 53% damage to anyone who is hit by the descending sword. The sword then bursts into psyenergy causing wide spread damage to those not hit by the first strike. The second strike can hit 3 times per second and the second strike lasts 5 seconds. Each hit does 4% damage thus totaling to 60% damage. If hit by the two attacks, it can cause 113% damage overall.

Normal
Punches with one hand, then the other hand, and then uses Psyenergy to push the opponent. The first punch does 5%, the next 4%, and then the last attack does 10% damage thus totaling at 19% damage overall.

Dash Attack – Isaac rushes forward and uses Psyenergy to push opponents with both his hands. Does 6% damage.

Forward Tilt – Swipes his hand in front of him causing psyenergy to burst out. Does 9% damage. Slow start up lag.

Up Tilt – A psyenergy infused hand thrust that has high knockback potential. It does between 10-12% damage. Has a slow ending lag but excellent KO potential at higher percentages.

Down Tilt – Isaac crouches and spins along the ground while shooting out Psyenergy. It hits both sides at 6% damage each thus totaling at 12% damage.

Smash
Side Smash – A blast of psyenergy shoots from his fist. It shoots out for 3 seconds but does damage. Has slow start up and ending lag but very powerful. Has excellent knock back and KO potential. Does 19-24% damage.

Up Smash – Unsheathes his sword and thrusts it upwards and infuses it with psyenergy. It does between 15-20% damage. Slow start up but very little ending lag.

Down Smash – Isaac touches the ground and a small shaking occurs knocking opponents off from the ground. Closer opponents can be damaged for 12-17% damage and farther opponents receive 25-20% damage.

Other attacks
Ledge attack- Vaults himself onto the stage and expels a large amount of Psyenergy thus driving the opponent into the ground. Vertical knock back. Does 10% damage.

100% ledge attack- Slowly gets up and performs a 2 second small sized Move attack that slams the opponent back wards. Does no damage but high knock back potential.

Floor attack – Performs a Psyenergy fist thrust. Very quick. Does 5% damage.

Aerial Attacks
Neutral aerial – Isaac spins in a circle in the air while extending his arms; causing Psyenergy to be released. Does 12% damage.

Forward aerial – Does quick sword cut that has a ending lag. It does 6% damage and a possible meteor smash effect.

Back aerial – Performs a backwards kick that is infused with Psyenergy. Does 10% damage.

Up aerial – Thrusts a stalagmite above him. Has high vertical knock back and KO potential. Does 16% damage. His strongest aerial attack.

Down aerial – Isaac thrusts his hands downward and pushes the opponent with his palms. Similar to his Ledge Attack but has a longer range. If down to a grounded opponent, it will cause them to crash onto the ground and bounce into the air. Does 13%.

Grabs and Throws
Pummel – Attacks them with Psyenergy. Does 4% damage.

Up Throw – Infuses his hands with Psyenergy and thrusts them in the air. Does 6% damages.

Down Throw – Throws the opponent down to the ground which causes a stalagmite to push them up. High vertical knock back damage at high percentages. Does 9% damage.

Back Throw – Infuses his legs with Psyenergy and drop kicks them causing high horizontal knock back. Does 7% damage.

Forward Throw -Isaac thrusts the opponent forward using a short distance Psyenergy attack. Does 5% damage.[/COLLAPSE]

 

[Johnknight1]

@ Venus
Great moveset. Although, to be honest, having "move" as the first move confused me. It took me a while to get what move you meant!

The Wii has lacked any decent RPG titles recently in my opinion. So, Xenoblade is a rather nice addition to the selection. That's really all it is actually.

The Last Story. BANG! I played a bit of that on a friend's Wii, and I could tell immediately that game is a classic. Other than those 2 games and the Virtual Console and maybe the Wii Ware, you are right though. The Wii does lack RPGs. Oddly enough, the DS has an overwhelming number of quality RPGs. Probably the best 7th gen system in terms of RPGs.

Golden Sun 3 had an intentional cliffhanger if my memory serves right, so there might be another game release by the time smash is further in development.

It seemed like Dark Dawn was the beginning of a long run for the Golden Sun franchise, unlike the previous Golden Sun game, the Lost Age, which seemed like the end of it.

 

[Starphoenix]

Xenoblade Chronicles isn't very popular outside of close-knit RPG fans. It also hurts that it is the first game of the IP, and perhaps the last (hopefully not).

Golden Sun is a fairly well-known IP, that of course has helped been built up on of time and two (I'd argue) classic titles.

Granted, I would not mind Shulk getting in over Isaac. Of course, that is my opinion on the situation.

If we get another Xenoblades Chronicle IP game/sequel, this would change my view of the scenario drastically.

Golden Sun is fairly well known... I'm sorry, but outside of that same demographic that "barely knows" what Golden Sun is, barely anyone knows what Golden Sun is either. The fact of the matter is that both Golden Sun titles came out before Brawl was completed and it was not enough to compel Sakurai, as far as we know, to seriously consider him. I also have this theory that handheld based series are more difficult to create content for because you cannot import content into the game and model it to function in Super Smash Bros, from what I've seen anyways.

Xenoblade is GOING to have a stage at the very least, I cannot see Sakurai just leaving it at that. Sure Xenoblade is no Mario, but it still managed to get released in every territory due in part to the fanbase. It does not need a sequel in order for Sakurai to look at the game and see what it has to offer in terms of content. That is just your weird view of sales talking again.

 

[Hoots]

Xenoblade is GOING to have a stage at the very least, I cannot see Sakurai just leaving it at that. Sure Xenoblade is no Mario, but it still managed to get released in every territory due in part to the fanbase. It does not need a sequel in order for Sakurai to look at the game and see what it has to offer in terms of content. That is just your weird view of sales talking again.

I completely agree. Xenoblade was the first truly great game to come out on the Wii that wasn't one of Nintendo's flagship titles. Not to mention everything in it(besides the graphics), from the story, to the art, music, voice acting, combat, etc was so fantastic that it WOULD be a crime to not represent it.

However, does Shulk's inclusion really hurt Isaac? Both characters look and act very differently. Not to mention the Monado/Earth Magic would easily be enough to differentiate them. HOWEVER, with Takamaru being incredibly likely and characters like Krom up to bat, how many sword characters do you think Sakurai is willing allow into the game?

 

[Conviction]

Also also, I'm pretty sure I'm becoming Oasis II.

You have a long ways to go if you think that.

You can kiss Isaac goodbye.

Why?

Xenoblade Chronicles isn't very popular outside of close-knit RPG fans. It also hurts that it is the first game of the IP, and perhaps the last (hopefully not).

Thing is, it has to be pretty damn popular to have a whole project for its translation for overseas ports.

I don't know many video games that get that kind of attention, support from random translators, and then actual support from the company itself to be released outside of Japan.

I completely agree. Xenoblade was the first truly great game to come out on the Wii that wasn't one of Nintendo's flagship titles. Not to mention everything in it(besides the graphics), from the story, to the art, music, voice acting, combat, etc was so fantastic that it WOULD be a crime to not represent it.

However, does Shulk's inclusion really hurt Isaac? Both characters look and act very differently. Not to mention the Monado/Earth Magic would easily be enough to differentiate them. HOWEVER, with Takamaru being incredibly likely and characters like Krom up to bat, how many sword characters do you think Sakurai is willing allow into the game?

Heh, I love this post so much because I know how you usually feel about J-RPGs.

The only way Shulk hurts Isaac is the fact that it adds another character for consideration, but that goes for any potential newcomer.

I really don't think it should matter how many sword users get in. These guys just don't swing around their swords generically, they have their own special powers from their IPs that make them more than a sword user.

There's more than one way to swing a sword.

 

[Metal Overlord]

By the way, the more I "figure out" the little stuff Sakurai has put in Smash Bros., the more I realize Sakurai is a living, walking, encyclopedia of Nintendo knowledge and history.

But he didn't who Krystal was

 

[yani]

Shulk for Smash!

 

[Oasis_S]

I really don't think it should matter how many sword users get in. These guys just don't swing around their swords generically, they have their own special powers from their IPs that make them more than a sword user.

There's more than one way to swing a sword.

I really don't think it should matter either.

But I'm worried it will. THERE'S JUST... something kind of tacky about it. And strangely, it would actually be Goroh i'm most worried about. At some point, I and others just started ACCEPTING him... but I wonder if that's really such a safe thing to do? Is MORE F-Zero content really being begged for that much? Because he honestly ONLY seems like an addition made to throw the series a bone. Maybe Toise can set me straight.

I bet Toon Link might be cut because of that too. And perhaps Krom WOULD NOT be added? Or he really would replace Ike. I'm not sure how to feel about Roy in that case either, lol.

 

[---]

And people want Ganondorf

Spoiler

(and Mewtwo)

to get their swords too.

 

[Conviction]

This is true, it looks bad from the outside doesn't it?

I guess there will always be a limit on sword users but is it really needed?

 

[Metal Overlord]

To be brutally honest, we really don't need a second F-Zero character at all. Falcon is perfectly fine. He also isn't really a very wanted character overall, just as far as F-Zero goes. As much as I want Goroh (my most wanted character not in a Smash game yet), I won't lie, there probably isn't much reason to add him other than, "Hey, let's actually give this series a new character this time"

I will say this, though: I saw someone here say that DEATHBORN had a better chance than Samurai Goroh. What the hell, seriously? That cheesy *** movie villain reject was only in one game. He'd be lucky to be a trophy

 

[Arcadenik]

IMO, the only reason anyone is supporting a second F-Zero character is either for the sake of having a second F-Zero character or to give Ganondorf a sword.

*Samurai Goroh is revealed to be an Assist Trophy* No Samurai Goroh? Quick! Let's flock to Black Shadow!

We want Ganondorf to have a sword but we don't want to give up his old moveset. Let's give it to Black Shadow!

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

Is MORE F-Zero content really being begged for that much? Because he honestly ONLY seems like an addition made to throw the series a bone. Maybe Toise can set me straight.

There's a lot of demand for it, yes. I can't think of too many cases where even non-fans are asking for anything from a series, but it happens with F-Zero regularly.


@Bender: Here's the culprit:

Samurai Goroh and Black Shadow weren't even the main villains in the first F-Zero's first story mode ever (in GX). Deathborn would have a higher chance imo and even then I wouldn't expect him to be anything more than a trophy.

I don't post gifs, but surely someone knows exactly what I'm thinking.

 

[Oasis_S]

@Swordorf: I forgot people still thought that might happen. Lol.

 

[Arcadenik]

Veteran sword-users
- Ike
- Link
- Marth
- Meta Knight
- Roy (out-prioritized by Ike in Brawl)
- Toon Link
- Young Link (replaced by Toon Link in Brawl)

Possible newcomer sword-users
- Isaac (or Matthew) (he and Shulk are RPG heroes but he could be out-prioritized by Shulk due to Xenoblade being more financially successful than Golden Sun games)
- Krom (could out-prioritize Ike and Roy for adding a new face in an old franchise in SSB4)
- Magnus (could be excluded due to Sakurai's humbleness since he is Sakurai's creation and could be out-prioritized by Palutena and even Medusa *lol females*)
- Masked Man (he isn't getting in because he is not a protagonist like Ness and Lucas and the Mother series is dead now)
- Saki (or Isa) (he and Shulk are Wii heroes but he could be out-prioritized by Shulk due to Xenoblade being more financially successful than Sin & Punishment games)
- Samurai Goroh
- Shulk
- Takamaru (could out-prioritize Samurai Goroh for adding a new franchise in SSB4)

So, that's why I think it is very likely we would get Krom, Shulk, and Takamaru. That's it. Krom for existing popular franchise. Shulk for successful new IP. Takamaru for retro.

 

[JPW]

I think Isaac can ditch the sword and just focus on Earth Psynergy

 

[FlareHabanero]

Less swords, more adorable sociopaths.

 

[Oasis_S]

I think Isaac and Saki have enough abilities that they wouldn't necessarily be thought of as sword-users, at least not to the extent of the ones we have now. Isaac moreso than Saki, of course. Saki also uses a laser sword, so that's refreshing by itself. I would hope his laser gun plays a prominent part in his moveset as well.

Only ones I would worry about are Krom, Roy, and Goroh. Roy having a fire sword gives him an edge over those two, I WOULD SAY.

 

[Deleted member]

There IS the fact that Black Shadow is the most wanted F-Zero character in Japan, but I think that has to do more with the anime and Norio Wakamoto than it does giving Ganondorf a sword.

 

[SmashChu]

IMO, the only reason anyone is supporting a second F-Zero character is either for the sake of having a second F-Zero character or to give Ganondorf a sword.

*Samurai Goroh is revealed to be an Assist Trophy* No Samurai Goroh? Quick! Let's flock to Black Shadow!

We want Ganondorf to have a sword but we don't want to give up his old moveset. Let's give it to Black Shadow!

Black Shadow is actually popular in Japan.

 

[Deleted member]

Black Shadow is actually popular in Japan.

With Emperor Wakamoto voicing him, it's not unbelievable.
Doesn't Japan eat up every character he voices?

 

[Oasis_S]

I always thought Black Shadow, as a clone of Falcon, would have a Side Special that has him rush forward and gore his horns into his opponent and then throw them upward. Y'know, instead of doing a flashy uppercut. :V

I guess I wouldn't mind him. Looks like a cheesy villain. SILLY.

 

[Metal Overlord]

Black Shadow has some huge hands

vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv yes

 

[Deleted member]

I guess I wouldn't mind him. Looks like Batman on steroids. SILLY.

Fixed.

 

[Metal Overlord]

This should be Black Shadow's alt

Dem pecs

 

[Deleted member]

This should be Black Shadow's alt

Dem pecs

Dat face.

 

[Metal Overlord]

His face reminds me of Emperor Zurg from Toy Story

I just noticed, some of the F-Zero X versions of the characters look even better than the GX versions

I mean, look at Pico, Goroh and Bio Rex

Spoiler

Even James looks better

I guess it's because of the comic book style plus they look more detailed

Oh well

 

[Oasis_S]

Just because I feel like I've been neglecting him lately:

Still want this to be Saki's alt costume.


I wonder if he would have that PUNCH he does to Achi near the end.

 

[Conviction]

I know the game is old and all but how the hell are you supposed to know what the **** is on his body?

 

[N3ON]

I know I'm a bit late with this, but I have to disagree with Xenoblade not being very well known outside JRPG groups. The Rainfall movement caused (with Xenoblade as the lead game) coverage by most gaming sites, bringing the existance of Xenoblade into the minds of most gamers who read any of these sites. From there, Operation Rainfall gained momentum by all the disgruntled Wii-owners who saw a relatively barren landscape in upcoming games, ones who joined even though they might never have had interest in buying the game. During this point Xenoblade was pirated almost a million times. When it was released in Europe it sold through most of its stock, surprising the retailers and the distributors. When it was finally released in NA, it was one of the best-selling games of April, and received heavy marketing from Gamestop. Anybody who entered a Gamestop was bombarded with Xenoblade cut-outs and posters (at least at the Gamestops I went to). Since then, Xenoblade has sold about 650k in all the territories, which isn't as much as Golden Sun or anything, but still is more than just small groups of JRPG fans could provide. With all the pirated copies and retail copies combined, there are about 1.6 million iterations of Xenoblade out there, which definitely includes a fair amount of people who aren't necessarily JRPG fans.

tl;dr
The amount of exposure (being the poster-game of Rainfall), critical success, marketing, and piracy/sales (1.6 million copies are out there) caused Xenoblade to be recognized and acknowledged by non-JRPG groups and fans in addition to its target demographic.