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New Smash Bros for WiiU

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Johnknight1

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I only got Ocarina cause everyone and everything called it the best game ever. Still liked my DKC, DK64 and Diddy Kong Racing more, but I enjoyed the game
WTF??? I mean, I can understand DKC, but DK64 is no where near as good as Ocarina of time.
Diddy Kong Racing is a multiplayer game, therefore IMHO is incomparable.
FE > Pikmin > Golden Sun in terms of bigginess. That's how I see it.
I'm basing my argument on sales, not "how I see it." Because based on sales, Golden Sun has outsold Pikmin by about half a million copies (with 1 more game), and has outsold Fire Emblem with 10 less games. Also, if Fire Emblem was so big, the first 6 games in the series (and Fire Emblem 12) wouldn't have been Japan-only titles. :smirk:

Edit: Holy freak, there is like a jetpack (waterpack?) dude carrying a jet ski off near the San Francisco coast (I is watching the SF Giants). WTF???? (Balloon Fighter confirmed!) :rotfl:
 

JPW

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I reckon they've been making a F-zero game. If you've noticed in Mario Kart 3DS there's actually mention of Retro Studios in the credits and one of the tracks actually pays homage to F-zero. Soooooooo

Now in Nintendo Land we also see a F-zero Attraction. Soooo it has to make you wonder who is coming up with these things. Does Nintendo secretly have an ace up their sleeve with F-zero?
I've never seen that?
It's actually Neo Bowser City trick. Sorry it probably is a Mario Series idea. But i've always felt it had a F-zero feel to it. It has a few similar features. Same sort of road and no rails at times. They have the same type of tunnels and same kind of headlights and checkpoint roofs.
 

Johnknight1

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I got to thinking, and I think Balloon Fighter may have another shot.
The main thing that Sakurai denied Balloon Fighter for was that he'd be "useless" without his balloons.
However, Brawl gave us a clear counter to that: :olimar:
Olimar is virtually useless without his Pikmin, so who's to say that Balloon Fighter couldn't work now?
Good opening argument. Now to add to it: I know Chrono has brought this up before, but in original Balloon Fight artwork, he had a gun. It would be cool if he had that! :shades:
now there's a game for it featured in the upcoming Nintendo Land.

So what do you guys think? Does Balloon Fighter have another chance?
Balloon Fighter definitely has another chance. He will definitely be at least, to some degree, "considered" for Smash Wii U and 3DS.
 
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I would love to live in your world where sales meant everything, John. :smirk:

But alas, in reality, they don't. Otherwise, don't you think that Isaac would get in over any Fire Emblem character or Olimar if his series is "greater" than their series in sales? :troll:

Why is it that Sakurai felt Pikmin "worthy" of a character, and Golden Sun not, while Golden Sun apparently has more sales?
 

Johnknight1

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I would love to live in your world where sales meant everything, John. :smirk:
My opinion on the matter is sort of divided. Sometimes I wish sales mattered more, other times I wish the opposite, but most of the time, I don't care. I just want the best roster possible. Which thus, we conclude that a character is "more worthy" of a roster spot (like what you say in your edit). However, I do think Isaac is pretty "worthy" of a roster spot.
But alas, in reality, they don't. Otherwise, don't you think that Isaac would get in over any Fire Emblem character or Olimar if it's "greater" than their series in sales? :troll:
If sales didn't matter, we wouldn't have had 8 playable Pokémon in smash thus far and only 2 Metroid characters (2 versions of the same ones).
 

Johnknight1

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For the record Golden, I do agree Captain Olimar is "more worthy" than Isaac because he is more unique, and thus far has always been his franchise's main character.
Also I hate playing John's dumb little game, but S&P2 sold 130,000 units. As a series, it has 480,000 units sold. Who knows how much the VC release made.
Each of the 3 Golden Sun games have outsold the sales of the entire Sin & Punishment series. I rest my case your honor! :awesome:

@ Oasis the Small
Star Fox has more playable characters than the Donkey Kong because damn near every Star Fox character has the same body type and they are all "easy to make" clones of Fox.
 

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Not sure what we're arguing about (just got back from a play) but it looks like sales?

Here's the Sales Argument. Although some parts may be outdated.
 
D

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My opinion on the matter is sort of divided. Sometimes I wish sales mattered more, other times I wish the opposite, but most of the time, I don't care. I just want the best roster possible. Which thus, we conclude that a character is "more worthy" of a roster spot (like what you say in your edit). However, I do think Isaac is pretty "worthy" of a roster spot.

If sales didn't matter, we wouldn't have had 8 playable Pokémon in smash thus far and only 2 Metroid characters (2 versions of the same ones).
Sales didn't have anything to do with that.
Pokemon is HUGE in more than just sales, it's also a phenomenon around the globe. Ask any random kid on the street who Pikachu is, and they'll tell you. Conversely, ask them who Samus is, and they won't know.

Also, Pokemon has literally HUNDREDS of potential characters to work into Smash, while Metroid has barely any potential major characters other than Samus herself.

Now, I know what you're going to say. "What about Ridley?", well, Ridley's a bit of a special case. While yes, he's responsible for Samus becoming a badass space fighter in the first place, to many, he's just another giant monster you have to kill, and just so happens to be a recurring one.
When it boils down to it, Samus is the only major character in the series, and the series revolves around her. Ridley just so happens to have connections and appearances that exceed the rest, making him the next best candidate.

Samus and Ridley would be the only potential major characters that could work. Other characters are too minor or obscure, or cannot work well, like Mother Brain.

I guarentee that if Metroid was Nintendo's 2nd best selling series instead of Pokemon, and nothing is different about it than it is now, Samus would STILL be the only character in Smash currently. We'd probably have a crapton more Metroid stages and Assists, however.
 

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Why is it that Sakurai felt Pikmin "worthy" of a character, and Golden Sun not, while Golden Sun apparently has more sales?
Miyamoto made Pikmin. and Miyamoto gets what Miyamoto wants.
 
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Miyamoto made Pikmin. and Miyamoto gets what Miyamoto wants.
Unless Miyamoto outfront said "I want Olimar to be in Smash, Sakurai. DO IT.", we cannot use this point.

As I've said before, it's not like every single one of Miyamoto's creations is a playable character in Smash.
 

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Yeah, it's not like Miyamoto can override Sakurai's judgment.

I don't remember where exactly this Miyamoto thing popped up, but I'm sure it was just a JOKE that people are just looking too deeply into. It just doesn't make sense.
 

JPW

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so we're still talking about Golden Sun vs Sin and Punishment. Good, i haven't missed anything since i've been asleep.

Why can't we have both? I'd thought about it and i'm all for Saki and isaac to both be in the next one. You want to talk about Sales how the hell did R.O.B. end up in Brawl. As I recall barely anyone bought that thing back in the 80's. So why did he get in?

Simple answer: He is part of Nintendo's history. Any character who is a significant part of Nintendo's history has a chance.
 

Johnknight1

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Sales didn't have anything to do with that.
Maybe "sales" was the wrong word (since y'all tend to be picky like little kiddies). "Popularity" is probably a better word, in which "sales" would be a major indicator of "popularity."
Also, Pokemon has literally HUNDREDS of potential characters to work into Smash, while Metroid has barely any potential major characters other than Samus herself.
I would say probably about 70-90% of Pokémon could have playable moveset potential. However, I doubt Pokémon like :010:, :011: :013:, :014:, :019:, etc. could ever have enough moves to be playable. Also, it should be noted none or next to none of the Pokémon are important to the "plot" of the canon Pokémon games.

As for Metroid, I kinda agree, although there are more characters than you indicated. Not just Ridley, but Kraid, Robo Ridley, SA-X, Dark Samus, several other "bosses," the 6 Bounty Hunters in Prime Hunters, Anthony, a (generic?) Space Pirate, a (generic?) Galactic Federation Troop, and the 3 Hunters in Prime 3 could all easily have a playable character moveset. Although to be fair, I will say that next to none of those characters are what I consider "important" to the Metroid franchises' plot.
I guarentee that if Metroid was Nintendo's 2nd best selling series instead of Pokemon, and nothing is different about it than it is now, Samus would STILL be the only character in Smash currently. We'd probably have a crapton more Metroid stages and Assists, however.
Nope, we would have Ridley instead of Charizard.
 

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Woah woah woah. Are you telling me, JPW, that characters significant to the Nintendo brand, and not just characters who have "combat experience," are good candidates for Smash? That blew my mind.

Mostly because it's what I say all the time, much to the chagrin of some.
 

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Of course they're both great candidates and have a chance.

Characters who are second/third party and don't fight... not a high one.
 

Starphoenix

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so we're still talking about Golden Sun vs Sin and Punishment. Good, i haven't missed anything since i've been asleep.

Why can't we have both? I'd thought about it and i'm all for Saki and isaac to both be in the next one. You want to talk about Sales how the hell did R.O.B. end up in Brawl. As I recall barely anyone bought that thing back in the 80's. So why did he get in?

Simple answer: He is part of Nintendo's history. Any character who is a significant part of Nintendo's history has a chance.
See, it shouldn't even be that, because both series are so diametrically opposed. If anything, as I am going to say for the third time, if any series "threatens" Golden Sun/Isaac it is going to be Xenoblade/Shulk. Two blond haired swordsman from Nintendo RPGs that have special abilities they can use. Simplifying I know, but I think everyone can get my point.
 

Johnknight1

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I said sales are a factor that has an impact. Obviously, they have an effect on popularity, which we all know has an effect on the playable character roster, which means that sales have an impact. Thus, that is not an issue, although some may make it an issue.

The issue, thus, that many don't seem to understand, is not whether sales have an impact, but the degree of impact. That is the debate I wanted, and it is a worthwhile one.

@ Star
I kinda agree, although, again, technically it is "everybody against everybody. However, I like to disqualify tenured characters and 3rd party characters from this. So, I guess we all got different views on this so called "competition for roster spots" if one truly exists! :laugh:

*goes back to watching Matt Cain's perfect game bid, which has gone through 6 innings*​
 

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John, I don't even know what to say to that...

Dr. Mario, maybe, but Ness and Lucas are from a critically acclaimed cult classic RPG, Captain Falcon is the protagonist of a series that people are absolutely clamoring for a new entry in, Ivysaur is the evolution of one of the most well-known Pokémon ever, Marth is the face of a huge strategy RPG, and Ike and Roy take on huge roles in that series in their respective games, and Sheik IS Zelda, particularly from the first 3D Zelda game.

Third parties are third parties, and you know that.

Seriously, don't be dumb.
 

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The issue, thus, that many don't seem to understand, is not whether sales have an impact, but the degree of impact. That is the debate I wanted, and it is a worthwhile one.
It only matters if Sakurai does not find something inherently unique or interesting in a character (or has time as we've come to learn), otherwise they end up getting stored.
 

Johnknight1

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@ Giant the Bug in my Bread
I don't consider any of those characters I listed as particularly "important" to the "Nintendo brand" as much as I like all of them. When I think of "important," I think of the Nintendo stars, and I don't consider any of those characters as stars. The only one I might is Captain Falcon, who is rarely seen. Actually, I think his Blue Falcon is the "real star" of F-Zero.
It only matters if Sakurai does not find something inherently unique or interesting in a character (or has time as we've come to learn), otherwise they end up getting stored.
Exactly. Nintendo has had hundreds of IPs, and more than 50% of them most of us have probably never heard of or played! :laugh: Why would Sakurai be much different=???

Although, to be fair, again this has an impact on popularity. And we all know what is "popular" and what isn't.

Also, woaw at the catch to save the perfect game in the Giants game I am watching. 7 perfect innings is just woaw.
 

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Well, it seems we have different ideas of importance. Even if those that you listed are lower on the scale, there still have to be more beyond them that warrant inclusion, even though they aren't as "important."

Also, will someone kindly point me toward a Takamaru moveset? I'd like to see what people are thinking up for him.

Also also, I'm pretty sure I'm becoming Oasis II.
 

Johnknight1

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@ Bread
I'm not saying they weren't "important enough" for smash (in which case, I also just realized I forgot the Ice Climbers on that list), but not noticeably important to Nintendo.

When I think of characters that are "important to Nintendo," the big names pop into my head. Mario, Luigi, Bowser, Peach, Yoshi, Wario, Donkey Kong, Link, Zelda, Ganon, Samus, Kirby, Fox, Pikachu, and Charizard. Those are all much bigger names than the previous characters I listed.

Also, I don't think you are becoming Oasis II. You are moreso becoming Golden II. :awesome:

Edit: 8 perfect innings for mai boi, San Francisco Giant's pticher Matt Cain. :) 1 inning/3 outs to go! *is nervous*
 

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Also also, I'm pretty sure I'm becoming Oasis II.
YOU NEED BETTER ASPIRATIONScaps.


@Kuma: I dunno. Miyamoto is like a mentor to him, and I'm sure his advice was invaluable in the beginning of the series. But that doesn't really mean a thing when it comes to character selection. Miyamoto can't say "make this happen" without Sakurai asking "why?" And Miyamoto has his own stuff to do, so it's not like he's going to be bothering Sakurai much anyway. Why would he? Sakurai's made a name for himself too. Surely Miyamoto would trust him to know what's best.

Sakurai beat Miyamoto in the argument over Kirby's color too... BD
 

Johnknight1

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Wasn't Miyamoto the one who told Sakurai to stay in a multiplayer direction for Smash 64?
Yeppers. That was possibly the best suggestion Miyamoto ever made.
Maybe Sakurai and co should have stuck to that with Brawl, instead of focusing so much on the Story Mode!

Although to be fair, Sakurai was right about Kirby's color being pink.

Also, that perfect game was unbelievably pitched by Matt Cain. WOAW!
 

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^^I've seen that before, but it really makes me hope that MM is the one that gets the remake.

That is one helluva good fake trailer though. I wish all rumored potential games could come with a trailer that awesome. :laugh:
 

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scratch that... NO!!! this video is not fake...

the fact of a MM remake on the Wii U is fake, this video is legitimate by a stupendous artist, animator (team?)
 
D

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Maybe "sales" was the wrong word (since y'all tend to be picky like little kiddies). "Popularity" is probably a better word, in which "sales" would be a major indicator of "popularity."

I would say probably about 70-90% of Pokémon could have playable moveset potential. However, I doubt Pokémon like :010:, :011: :013:, :014:, :019:, etc. could ever have enough moves to be playable. Also, it should be noted none or next to none of the Pokémon are important to the "plot" of the canon Pokémon games.

As for Metroid, I kinda agree, although there are more characters than you indicated. Not just Ridley, but Kraid, Robo Ridley, SA-X, Dark Samus, several other "bosses," the 6 Bounty Hunters in Prime Hunters, Anthony, a (generic?) Space Pirate, a (generic?) Galactic Federation Troop, and the 3 Hunters in Prime 3 could all easily have a playable character moveset. Although to be fair, I will say that next to none of those characters are what I consider "important" to the Metroid franchises' plot.

Nope, we would have Ridley instead of Charizard.
That's why I said there were "HUNDREDS". I did not say "EVERY POKEMON".
Also, I don't know what you're talking about, Caterpie, Weedle, and especially Rattata have enough. ;) Heck, even Magikarp can work if you truly think about it.
Also, none of the playable Pokemon other than Squirtle and Charizard (and possibly Ivysaur) are "important" to the plot of the games. Pikachu, Jigglypuff, and Lucario? Just creatures you can obtain. None have plot importance. Same with Mewtwo, except he's a Legendary. Though that changes little, as Mewtwo is just an optional creature you can catch after certain requirements have been met.
Why Squirtle, Charizard, and maybe Ivysaur are important to the plot? Because they represent Pokemon that you start with in the original games and their remakes.

And no, Ridley is the only workable character that is not minor and obscure.
Kraid, unlike Ridley, is actually too big and is a lumbering beast with very little mobility.
Robo Ridley is mounted to a wall. Do you NOT see the cables? Also minor and obscure.
SA-X is the exact same thing as Samus, and was in one game. Minor, obscure, and clone fodder.
Dark Samus would be the next step, being a villain from an entire trilogy (being Metroid Prime firsthand), but is very likely to be a clone, since she's well, Dark Samus. (And before you bring in the "Waluigi point to try to irritate me, it is in Sakurai's own viewpoint that "Dark Samus is identical to Samus in every way but color--she even uses similar attacks." -Dark Samus' Brawl Trophy)
"Other bosses" are still minor and obscure. Did you not read me saying that in my last post?
The 6 Hunters are workable, but are minor and obscure. Again, I said EITHER minor and obscure OR unworkable.
Anthony, same as the Hunters.
Generics are even more minor and obscure than the characters above.
The Prime 3 Hunters, same deal as the 6 Hunters.

EDIT: And just to show that there is no anger in my post:
 

Get Low

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So if Isaac were to make it into Smash 4, what kind of attacks would he have?
I don't know anything about the Golden Sun series.
 

N3ON

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So if Isaac were to make it into Smash 4, what kind of attacks would he have?
I don't know anything about the Golden Sun series.
I'm sure there are many full movesets for Isaac out there, but off the top of my head if he got in he would probably use Earth psynergy (different kinds of magic earth attacks, like earthquakes, spikes, "eruptions", possibly vines) and normal psynergy (like the Move attack he has in Brawl, and maybe the teleportation psynergy for his up special). His FS would probably be Judgment, here is a video of it. He would most likely use his sword in some A moves, and probably his Smash attacks, although psynergy could also be used in some of his non-special moves, depending on how creative the moveset is.
 

Johnknight1

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@ Golden (in response to your super long post on the last page that I fueled) :grin:
Those Pokémon I mentioned would really need to be stretched to make a moveset. I'm not saying it is impossible, just that all of those Pokémon wouldn't have a full moveset. If they could, it would be stale, and would have multiple of the same attacks, like how Smash 64 Mario's forward air and back air were the same animation.

As for the Metroid characters I listed, all I meant was that those characters having a moveset is much more feasible than the Pokémon I listed.

As for my Waluigi reference, I referenced Paper Mario, a character I am fond of. I wasn't singling anyone out. I just mentioned all the "popular" characters I could think of that could easily be clones. And let's be honest-Paper Mario, who I love, and would die for if he was original-could be a clone. The same goes for Waluigi. It's not that hard to imagine.

Ultimately, my response to you wasn't anything worth ranting about! :laugh: Especially that part where I mention Waluigi, amongst a plethora of other characters. :bee:
 
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