New Smash Bros for WiiU

[N3ON]

The main issue with Rayman is that he's not created by a Japanese company. Not to start up any racist controversies, but generally Japanese companies have a distaste for other companies from other countries (USA in particular). Not sure if Sakurai and his rag tag team of developers follow the stereotype, but its possible we'll never see Rayman. Especially considering that Rayman is pretty obscure in Japan.

A shame too, because he can easily have a moveset and fit in the crowd as another quirky character. Plus being a limbless character would make him stand out from the other characters barring possibly Sukapon.

I think Nintendo would overlook any possible xenophobia they might have about a non-Japanese developer, if that developer was vehemently supporting their console and helping add interest in it, something I think Ubisoft is doing more than any other 3rd party right now. It usually comes down to sales and support, both of which Ubisoft is helping contribute to the Wii U. Nowadays Nintendo knows that non-Japanese developers are very important for the system's "hardcore" success, and I doubt they would discriminate against something that helps sell their own product.

I think the point that Rayman isn't overly popular in Japan and isn't really requested heavily anywhere would be the main reasons he wouldn't get in (more so than pro-Japanese sentiment that Nintendo might harbor). However, if Rayman hypothetically was requested as much or more than Megaman in Japan, I don't think Sakurai would dismiss something that would help bring sales in just on the fact that it's made by a French company. Since he's not though, I would agree that there is a very good chance we'll never see Rayman in Smash.

 

[SmashChu]

It adds to the game and your options. I can actually stop here.

I know your trying to mimic something I said and sound cool, but I had a point in front of it. I'm asking you HOW does it add depth. You say it and never say why.

No, you can't stop there. Doing something that other fighting games do does not inherently make it boring. There are some things fighting games do well and would do especially well having a Smash Bros. version.

If every fighting game does it, doesn't that, by definition, make it boring. If you watch Star War: A New Hope 50 times, wont you be bored of it.

Smash's success does not come from doing what every other game in the genre does.

Not to mention, Smash Bros. does several things other fighting games does, and Smash Bros. doesn't suffer from it. By being a fighting game you must necessarily be similar to all fighting games in some manner, but Smash Bros. isn't boring insofar as it is. No one thinks that, and to say so would also be saying that other fighting games are objectively boring and that Smash Bros. is the only novel and fun one.

Smash does very few things like other fighting games. You fight and grab but that's about it.
-Smash has damage, not a health bar
-Smash has items
-Smash has stages that kill you
-Smash has 4 player (most only have 2)
-No motions
-More aerial movement
-You have freedom of movement
ect.

Well, first off, these Supers don't have to be so big and monstrous. Not to mention, the Wii U is going to be pretty strong, you have characters in Playstation All Stars with bars and it doesn't seem like multiple people using them at once causes it to crash, or else they wouldn't be setting the game up like that at all. And the Wii U is supposed to be stronger, right? But that is beside the point.

1)It's bad when you have to use Sony Smash Brothers to defend a point. Should tell you something
2)Part of the fun of a Smash Ball is that it gives you a big attack. It's also hard to tell players that they final smashes are going backwards
3)Crashing has nothing to do with power but the game's coding. They have to change the entire way the final smashes are done. And for what? So some competitive players are happy?

Also, characters who build up their meters better doesn't have to make them better, especially because they don't have to be these monstrous things. They also can be designed to help out slower or weaker characters, and it can also be designed to have multiple uses where you can spend some of your bar to do certain things, and thus trying to build it up to the highest level can be difficult and also put you at a disadvantage against someone who is using their Smash energy freely. There is a lot you can do with it, and many ways to balance it.

'

If you can build meter, some moves have to be redesigned around that. Take PK Starstorm. If Lucas or Ness can build meter fast and keep using it, it would be too easy. Compare it too Link's where you have to aim it or even Luigi where you still have some set up. It benefits the instance use characters. It's one more thing to change around.

Again, as the point I was making, in order to make the bar work you have to scale back on final smashes, and what's the fun in that. It's fun to fly around as Diddy. it's fun to land a big KO attack like the Blue Falcon. It's fun to see all these references like Warioman and the bongos. But to make this work, you have to make less satisfying moves and remove a lot of cool ones. Again, boring.

I'll finish on these two points. First, remember that, in all of this, that you can prevent someone from getting a Smash Ball, you can knock it out of them, and all of the are dodgeable (except maybe Sonic). Also, you have yet to say why we should downscale. What's the benefit. Try to explain it this time.

 

[Holder of the Heel]

I know your trying to mimic something I said and sound cool, but I had a point in front of it. I'm asking you HOW does it add depth. You say it and never say why.

I did say why, and I said how it is again. Besides, how does adding a bar not add depth? It is an additional thing you can do and focus on? It is kind of implied by adding a bar that it adds to the experience.

As for trying to sound cool, that is an assumption, I really just did it to do it, and my doing it made more sense anyhow.

If every fighting game does it, doesn't that, by definition, make it boring. If you watch Star War: A New Hope 50 times, wont you be bored of it.

No. You see, every fighting game does the same basic things, but in their own way. Same with all genres, that is what they share, otherwise, they wouldn't be in the same genre. And yet, there are fans of genres, and playing the same genre does not bore them. Besides, I didn't say you take the same exact thing which that poor "example" implies.

Smash's success does not come from doing what every other game in the genre does.


Smash does very few things like other fighting games. You fight and grab but that's about it.
-Smash has damage, not a health bar
-Smash has items
-Smash has stages that kill you
-Smash has 4 player (most only have 2)
-No motions
-More aerial movement
-You have freedom of movement
ect.

Ironically, that doesn't change the fundamentals of what makes a fighting game. Really its just a platforming fighter, those changes follow. Yes, I am not denying a lot of the success of it is from its differences, but other fighting games are good as well because, well, they are good. All fighting games take the same formula and add to it.

That is why Smash is so successful. That is why any good fighting game is successful.

1)It's bad when you have to use Sony Smash Brothers to defend a point. Should tell you something

I can't take this point seriously, whether your bias says the game sucks or not has nothing to do with any of my points.

2)Part of the fun of a Smash Ball is that it gives you a big attack. It's also hard to tell players that they final smashes are going backwards

Huh?

3)Crashing has nothing to do with power but the game's coding. They have to change the entire what the final smashes are done. And for what? So some competitive players are happy?

Like I've said, it doesn't have to be made complicated. It is just added depth. In fact, we can add the bar and these smaller Super moves and keep the Smash Ball and have the Final Smash be this uber thing completely irrelevant from it. Doesn't detract from literally any of my points.

Again, as the point I was making, in order to make the bar work you have to scale back on final smashes, and what's the fun in that. It's fun to fly around as Diddy. it's fun to land a big KO attack like the Blue Falcon. It's fun to see all these references like Warioman and the bongos. But to make this work, you have to make less satisfying moves and remove a lot of cool ones. Again, boring.

See what I've just said.

 

[SmashChu]

@Holder: You have yet to say why it adds depth. You just fumble around the point and say are few things that have no substance. Like so

I did say why, and I said how it is again.

Then why don't you put it in your post so I don't have to play detective.

Besides, how does adding a bar not add depth?

I don't know. Maybe that's why I'm asking you.

It is an additional thing you can do and focus on? It is kind of implied by adding a bar that it adds to the experience.

Sounds just like the Smash Ball. It adds to the experience.

Ironically, that doesn't change the fundamentals of what makes a fighting game. Really its just a platforming fighter, those changes follow. Yes, I am not denying a lot of the success of it is from its differences, but other fighting games are good as well because, well, they are good. All fighting games take the same formula and add to it.

That is why Smash is so successful. That is why any good fighting game is successful.

Smash Brothers is successful because it's an anti thesis. Look at the sales of most fighting games or even most cross over games and and see the difference.

And yes, they are fundamentally the same because they are fighting games. But it's like saying Mario Kart is just like Fortza Motersports.

Like I've said, it doesn't have to be made complicated. It is just added depth. In fact, we can add the bar and these smaller Super moves and keep the Smash Ball and have the Final Smash be this uber thing completely irrelevant from it. Doesn't detract from literally any of my points.

Why not just get rid of the bar and save us all the time in that case.
Also notice how you've dodged most of what I've said.

Your argument has really fallen apart. You better shape up or bars are shipping out.

Now to see if I can play Awesomenauts.

 

[Holder of the Heel]

Your issue was that if we add the bars, it will be just like everything else and thus boring, and reduces what we can do with the item Final Smash.

I have shown that adding a bar doesn't just magically make it boring, and that it doesn't have to have anything to do with your special Final Smashes that apparently add to our experience (yet doesn't since we don't use items when we play seriously anyhow). I have already explained how it adds to strategy on building it up, activating it, and getting more moves. Not being able to get the fact that that adds depth tells me you don't know what games are, especially fighting games.

And you say my argument has fallen apart? I think you're trolling me, because when you say taking the bar out at the end entirely to save time, it really makes me feel like you didn't read anything I've said. XD Not sure how that connects to the quoted part above it at all.

To put it as simple as possible: We can have Final Smashes and we can have a bar that adds separate stronger special attacks that aren't nearly as broken and crazy as Final Smashes.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

I think Holder kinda kicked your *** in the argument department, Chu.

Smooth Criminal

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

With the E3 hype dying down, I guess it wouldn't hurt to mention that I did post an Adventure Mode plot in the blogs. If anyone is interested, here's the link...

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=323385

 

[Holder of the Heel]

Just had another thought (not to say I like it, just expressing any idea I get), that we don't necessarily have bars that we separately build up. What can happen is that Smash Energy is equally distributed to everyone in the match, and that it fluxes throughout the match by having players "stealing" the energy from others, and if a player successfully gets it all, they can perform a very large attack, therefore only one person can do a giant Smash attack at a time, and with four players it is harder to accomplish because you are battling for the energy with everyone. The energy could potentially do something passively perhaps. Sounds more like a mode though, and not as efficient as just having your own bar.

Spoiler

Also the idea of equally passing out energy to the players sounds like communism, and we can't have that.

 

[SmashChu]

Your issue was that if we add the bars, it will be just like everything else and thus boring, and reduces what we can do with the item Final Smash.

I have shown that adding a bar doesn't just magically make it boring, and that it doesn't have to have anything to do with your special Final Smashes that apparently add to our experience (yet doesn't since we don't use items when we play seriously anyhow). I have already explained how it adds to strategy on building it up, activating it, and getting more moves. Not being able to get the fact that that adds depth tells me you don't know what games are, especially fighting games.

And you say my argument has fallen apart? I think you're trolling me, because when you say taking the bar out at the end entirely to save time, it really makes me feel like you didn't read anything I've said. XD Not sure how that connects to the quoted part above it at all.

To put it as simple as possible: We can have Final Smashes and we can have a bar that adds separate stronger special attacks that aren't nearly as broken and crazy as Final Smashes.

No, you never mentioned why it would be fun to do an attack that is weaker.
No, you still haven't said why it adds more depth
No, you have not address the point that they have to be weaker and why that is not a bad thing
No, you never mentioned why it would be fun to have a bar verse the Smash Ball
No, you have not give a positive to bars besides "it adds more depth."
No, my issue was that you never said why bars add depth or why they are better than the Smash Balls we have now
No you never ever hit on why it makes sense to have both (why do it in the first place)
Please show me where you said these things?

Heck, let me aask you this again. I'm making it big this time. This is all I want right now.

How does a bar add more depth and options than the Smash Ball we have now.

I think Holder kinda kicked your *** in the argument department, Chu.

Smooth Criminal

Sarcasm at it's finest eh?

 

[FlareHabanero]

This childish debate is an insult to children, and it makes me a little sad. Sad I tell you!

...Anyway about the Rayman thing while it's fresh in my brain, would the recent promotional thing for the Wii U by Ubisoft be the main contributing factor why Rayman would be in Super Smash Bros? Or would the fact that Rayman is a bit of a cult in European countries (especially France)? And how would Japanese audiences in particular react to Rayman in Super Smash Bros?

 

[Smooth Criminal]

SmashChu is salllllllllllllllllllty.

Smooth Criminal

 

[SmashChu]

SmashChu is salllllllllllllllllllty.

Smooth Criminal

No, I want an answer. I have been sitting here for the last few post saying "How does it add more depth." I have yet to get an answer.

I won this debate long ago.

 

[Holder of the Heel]

No, you still haven't said why it adds more depth

Yes I have, repeatedly. Here it is again.

You have more moves, and thus options. You have a bar that can be built, therefore you have to try and fill it up in the fight, and therefore you have to keep that mind when fighting, trying to get chains, not camp and let it drain, not let the opponent build it up, activate it at certain levels or build it up to the max for the strongest attack or to help for a specific situation.

Omg, look, that is depth. Kind of like how standard and special attacks add depth too, and percentages!

No, you have not address the point that they have to be weaker and why that is not a bad thing

You said yourself that they have to be weaker. .__. So we don't have landmasters everywhere, and Super Sonics clashing, etc. Also, not sure why having moves that aren't super strong is a bad thing. We can still have the super stronk Final Smashes, but we don't need everything on that level.

Kind of like how standard and special attacks also aren't too stronk, and now we can have super attacks along with final attacks.

No, you never mentioned why it would be fun to have a bar verse the Smash Ball

I said we can keep the ball, I already said that. The bar adds depth, as I have just shown, and therefore more fun. Also, you say that Final moves are big and exciting, well these supers are more exciting than our special and standard moves, so perhaps, while not AS exciting, they are MOAR exciting than standard and special moves! And guess what, we can have the Finals too!

Kind of like we get more excitement without having lost any.

No, you have not give a positive to bars besides "it adds more depth."

That is all the positive I need, well, that, and it is exciting, which you have to agree with because you find the larger the moves are the more exciting it is, and thus super moves must be at least a little exciting to you.

I can actually stop here. *said that to be cool*

No, my issue was that you never said why bars add depth or why they are better than the Smash Balls we have now

They don't have to be "better" than Smash Balls. (Even though they are, because they can more feasibly be in competitive play than Smash Balls, which you may have noticed, isn't).

It's like I never even pitted Supers with Final Smashes.

No you never ever hit on why it makes sense to have both (why do it in the first place)

Why only have one or the other? One involves completely different moves that you build up without the means of items that aren't nearly as powerful and can be used in different ways.

This isn't an either/or situation, at all. Where is this black and white thinking coming from? You can have both. I feel like with this logic we might as well lose special attacks. But wait, that doesn't make sense, they're two completely different things.

Just like "supers" and Final Smashes.

Sarcasm at it's finest eh?

I doubt it was sarcasm.


And I'm not trying to be a smart *** with those responses, just giving you some grief my friend. <3

 

[N3ON]

This childish debate is an insult to children, and it makes me a little sad. Sad I tell you!

...Anyway about the Rayman thing while it's fresh in my brain, would the recent promotional thing for the Wii U by Ubisoft be the main contributing factor why Rayman would be in Super Smash Bros? Or would the fact that Rayman is a bit of a cult in European countries (especially France)? And how would Japanese audiences in particular react to Rayman in Super Smash Bros?

The only way I see Rayman getting in is because of the current support Ubisoft is giving Nintendo, and even then its quite a long shot. Rayman won't get in because of popularity or demand, because he is fairly far down the list of 3rd parties compared to other ones. (Even in Europe, where unfortunately popularity has the least effect on who becomes playable when compared to Japan and NA).

I'm guessing the Japanese Smashers would lament and be surprised Rayman's inclusion over other 3rd parties, (as would many people outside Japan) but I doubt they would actively protest him.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

I won this debate long ago.

And what did you get? A medal?

I don't think you've "won" anything, Chu. The fact of the matter is that there is depth inherent to the model that Holder is presenting and that it simply differs from the one you're upholding.

Smooth Criminal

 

[Holder of the Heel]

The more I see Rayman Legends, the more I like the idea of Rayman being in. If not for his interesting style and unique possibilities, but for the fact that then that means the crazy world of Origins/Legends gets to show up in one way or the other! :D

 

[Wizzrobe]

Sakon for Sm4sh (Sakon from Majora's Mask)

 

[SmashChu]

Words

What did I just say

How does a bar add more depth and options than the Smash Ball we have now.

What I got

They don't have to be "better" than Smash Balls. (Even though they are, because they can more feasibly be in competitive play than Smash Balls, which you may have noticed, isn't).

It's like I never even pitted Supers with Final Smashes.

Which isn't an answer (no, saying competitive players will use it is not more depth).

I'm not sure what your not getting. What I'm asking you is to explain how it adds depth. At this point all you have done is tried to countered my points. If you are going to have an argument on why we should have bars, you better have a damn good reason.

I'm not responding to the rest right now because it's a waste of my time. I'm not going to sit there and reply to each and every one when the argument has no focus. Mostly because you have avoided the question or said "Obviously it does."

And what did you get? A medal?

I don't think you've "won" anything, Chu. The fact of the matter is that there is depth inherent to the model that Holder is presenting and that it simply differs from the one you're upholding.

Smooth Criminal

The reason I won is because Holder (and now you) keep saying that without actually saying why. The argument has turned to

Me:Why does it add depth
Youffff. Because

That's not a point. How am I suppose to say to think bars serve any purpose when the whole reason they are argued is never actually brought up. The reason i won this argument is because, up until now, I have pierced the veil. Because everyone dodges the point, I see no reason to think there is depth in this idea and, thus, no arguments. In the end, I win.

All I got in this argument was a headach. I still haven't had my questioned answered when that's all I asked form.

Spoiler

I would have stopped, but my Awesomenaut buddy is still at work.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Also like I mentioned earlier, Rayman would technically be a very unique character in terms of cosmetics and gameplay due to his unique characteristics. For example, Rayman's trademark limblessness and helicopter hair can make Rayman a character that specializes in ranged attacks and aerial combat, but also somewhat weak and floaty.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

...did you not read his post at all?

Smooth Criminal

 

[yani]

@Rayman pretty much what N3ON said. He is also limbless, so that might be an issue for Sakurai.

 

[Lukingordex]

Sakon for Sm4sh (Sakon from Majora's Mask)

That???

Can´t you think better about it?

 

[nLiM8d]

SmashChu is salllllllllllllllllllty.

Where are my witnesses? Disfunk, Iblis, this is a must see.

By the way, thank you N3ON for those insightful details. Can't say I care too much enought to venture into the semantics of popularity when it comes to certain cultures. If I can say something on the behalf of the western perspective, we've seen some initially unknown characters that were (or still) popular in Japan of which Smash put on the map here in the US.

I feel that this title is as much ours as it is theirs when it comes down to its promotion. To include a few characters that deviate from the 'norm' shouldn't cause too much of an uproar in the long run.

 

[FlareHabanero]

@Rayman pretty much what N3ON said. He is also limbless, so that might be an issue for Sakurai.

Being limbless is sort of a poor excuse not just for Rayman, but also Sukapon too. Limbless movement has been around since the 90's, and Nintendo has a bit of history with using limbless bosses and characters. Hell, Joy Mech Fight had the whole roster be limbless back in the NES (technically Famicom) days due to technical limitations. So having limbless characters shouldn't be a problem due to the far more powerful hardware.

 

[N3ON]

@SmashChu

You have more moves, and thus options. You have a bar that can be built, therefore you have to try and fill it up in the fight, and therefore you have to keep that mind when fighting, trying to get chains, not camp and let it drain, not let the opponent build it up, activate it at certain levels or build it up to the max for the strongest attack or to help for a specific situation.

This seems pretty clear how it would involve more depth than just attacking a ball when it shows up. It would definitely influence playstyle more than a Smash ball, and people would go in depth trying to find the best ways to build up their meter in the shortest time, and use it at specific levels best needed for the situation. Even by simply having different levels does it go more in depth than a Smash ball that always gives the same attack at the same level.

The more I see Rayman Legends, the more I like the idea of Rayman being in. If not for his interesting style and unique possibilities, but for the fact that then that means the crazy world of Origins/Legends gets to show up in one way or the other! :D

Yeah, the more Sukapon's chances decrease, the more I'm coming around to seeing Rayman. I mostly just want a limbless fighter, I actually have played very few of Rayman's games, but Origins was great, and I wouldn't mind seeing him in Smash with some Origins and Legends content. At least more than I'd like to see some other 3rd parties. And the Rabbids would definitely be... interesting.

I still think he chances are very poor though, no matter how much Ubisoft supports Nintendo.

Sakon for Sm4sh (Sakon from Majora's Mask)

Skull Kid or bust!

 

[yani]

Being limbless is sort of a poor excuse not just for Rayman, but also Sukapon too. Limbless movement has been around since the 90's, and Nintendo has a bit of history with using limbless bosses and characters. Hell, Joy Mech Fight had the whole roster be limbless back in the NES (technically Famicom) days due to technical limitations. So having limbless characters shouldn't be a problem due to the far more powerful hardware.

I completely agree. I'd love to see Sukapon myself. I just wanted to point that out though

 

[Conviction]

I'm back and may I say good show.

Good show.

Good. Show.

 

[N3ON]

By the way, thank you N3ON for those insightful details. Can't say I care too much for the semantics of popularity when it comes to certain cultures. If I can say something on the behalf of the western perspective, we've seen some initially unknown characters that were (or still) popular in Japan of which Smash put on the map here in the US.

I feel that this title is as much ours as it is theirs when it comes down to its promotion. To include a few characters that deviate from the 'norm' shouldn't cause too much of an uproar in the long run.

I definitely agree with you. Even if characters popular primarily (or solely) in Japan get included, I feel that oftentimes it is in fact the overseas players that get the biggest benefit. Marth and Roy are a great example, as while they were great for the Japanese smashers who previously knew who they were, I'd say in the long run they benefited the other regions much more, as their inclusion led to FE making it's way out of Japan. I just wish the same could've been said for Lucas and Mother 3, but at least the Mother series got more attention at all outside Japan.

It's a shame that Sakurai seems to want to restrict the amount of Japan-exclusive (or primarily exclusive) characters, as Smash often leads to them getting much more exposure than they could ever get before. Personally I think the next character to get this treatment will be Takamaru, which is great, as most of the world outside Japan has never experienced Takamaru playing a prominent role in a game. However, I suppose I can see his hesitance, and I don't expect this pattern of limited exposure to change, but as opposed to more casual and less aware Smashers (who have worldwide well-known characters to satiate them), I quite enjoy when a relatively unheard of Japanese character makes it's way to the rest of the world.

 

[Holder of the Heel]

...Does Smashchu hate me or something? Why is he trolling me? I thought we were cool. D: Well, as long as everyone else understands and agrees with my idea that's cool I guess. Don't worry about replying to the rest of what I have said Chu, we can stop here, I don't enjoy it. But thanks anyhow, N3ON.



While being limbless doesn't make you inherently better, I can understand the personal preferences of bringing something new like that in (and Sakurai kind of looks for that, but let's not pretend to understand that man's mind). Kind of like how I just want some sort of bird with no arms in.

 

[nLiM8d]

I hope to gain more understanding as to why the inclusion of Japan specific characters would be a matter to avoid. If anything a character with the same bearing as Takamaru would provide a significant link to Nintendo's upbringing.

So not to place so much emphasis on the fact that Takamaru is Japanese character, but more so to focus on what historic relevance he has. I would relate him to ROB or G&W in this way, each having their own bearing in presentation.

Holder, SmashChu doesn't troll, at least not in the way that is motivated by another's frustration.
SmashChu just has a perception of ideas that are uniquely his own, which by default are a challenge to embrace.

 

[N3ON]

I hope to gain more understanding as to why the inclusion of Japan specific characters would be a matter to avoid. If anything a character with the same bearing as Takamaru would provide a significant link to Nintendo's upbringing.

So not to place so much emphasis on the fact that Takamaru is Japanese character, but more so to focus on what historic relevance he has. I would relate him to ROB or G&W in this way, each having their own bearing in presentation.

I'm guessing Sakurai doesn't like to include an abundance of Japanese exclusive characters because he probably views them as characters that wouldn't make someone outside Japan want to play the game, which is one of his prerequisites for inclusion. Personally, if this is the case, I think he might be looking at things a bit narrowly, as only a small fraction of Smashers wouldn't play as a character they weren't already familiar with. Sure, it might not be the first character they would choose, but eventually most people play as every character, at least to see if they enjoy their playstyle.

If Takamaru was to be included, I don't think Sakurai would view him as the character to represent Nintendo's historic relevance, such as Mr. G&W or ROB, but rather the character to fit the revived retro "slot". But now that you mention it, in a way Takamaru could very well represent Nintendo's origins even better than G&W or ROB, as he represents the country Nintendo was founded in, resides in, and has shaped the culture of. I think Takamaru would fit this category better than any other potential candidate. However, I still think Sakurai would take the more basic approach and include Takamaru as a retro representative instead of one that represents Nintendo's past, which now after some thought, is unfortunate.

 

[Starphoenix]

Just started up a playthrough for Custom Robo. Man, that game is one of Nintendo's hidden gems for the Gamecube. It's really sad this series is dead for now, because I (and apparently NOISE too) would love a new entry in this series for like the Wii U. Online play, co-op, Supersweep, HD visuals; I can't think of a better combo (bar a new F-Zero or Sin and Punishment).

It is also unfortunate Sakurai is hesitant to add any characters from second party series not named Kirby or Pokémon.

 

[nLiM8d]

I think its time.

With the appropriate packaging, a title like Custom Robo would be something that would motivate me into purchasing a Wii U. I hardly even have any knowledge of that series, however I fall into a category of consumers that is interested in trying things because they represent new experiences.

I think that ties in with what N3ON was saying about exploring characters in order to discover what their profile is all about.

When you think about it, characters like Earthbound (in my case C.Falcon) weren't widely known characters, but they were included in Smash as "hidden gems". This not following the pattern of market strategy due to the notion that the game was centered around all stars battling and that would serve well enough overall.

I think this an approach that Nintendo needs to venture into once more. Your first party hitters can drive the essence of the title if they can demonstrate the value of the game's focus well enough. You will be able to duke it out with your favorite all stars and it will be an enjoyable experience because the gameplay is solid.

 

[Holder of the Heel]

Well, there are only a few big hitters left, so if we are to get a decent amount of characters in SSB4 (unlikely considering Sakurai wants to take a new approach with the size of the roster apparently), they are going to have to be hidden gems that could potentially spark new games and thus transforming them into big hitters. A lot of what we see will either be minor characters (seems unlikely) or a lot of retro and as N affectionately calls them, "hidden gems". Honestly, the latter makes more sense because of the aforementioned potential factor that they become more than what they were.

Minor characters could work in the same fashion, but I'm unsure if their appearance creates the same affect as does hidden gems breaking out on the Smash scene.

 

[Lukingordex]

51 characters appears to be enough.

 

[Starphoenix]

I think its time.

With the appropriate packaging, a title like Custom Robo would be something that would motivate me into purchasing a Wii U. I hardly even have any knowledge of that series, however I fall into a category of consumers that is interested in trying things because they represent new experiences.

I think that ties in with what N3ON was saying about exploring characters in order to discover what their profile is all about.

When you think about it, characters like Earthbound (in my case C.Falcon) weren't widely known characters, but they were included in Smash as "hidden gems". This not following the pattern of market strategy due to the notion that the game was centered around all stars battling and that would serve well enough overall.

I think this an approach that Nintendo needs to venture into once more. Your first party hitters can drive the essence of the title if they can demonstrate the value of the game's focus well enough. You will be able to duke it out with your favorite all stars and it will be an enjoyable experience because the gameplay is solid.

Think about what the Marvel Vs Capcom series has been able to do through out much of their series. Some of the most cherished characters have been the obscure ones who've come from small titles barely anyone knew about. As you pointed out even in Super Smash Bros characters like Ness, Capt. Falcon, Mr. Game and Watch, R.O.B, to some extent Fox; none of these characters many people would have thought to be fighters, and yet they are characters.

For me Ray would be fun because robots are always fun. Especially if Megaman does not show up, there is going to be an appetite for me to have our robot fighter (R.O.Bs nice, but not exactly what I mean). It's sad Sakurai views Ray as a tiny little robot zipping about the stage, considering Olimar, who is only about the size of a dime, was resized to fit the average height of the other characters.

 

[Opossum]

I'm just wondering; I know that Miyamoto pretty much can make or break a character's chance of getting a spot on the roster, but does anyone know if he's more partial to his own creations?

 

[---]

Could never really get into Custom Robo on the Gamecube, too bad I sold it. Maybe I'll buy the DS game sometime. I can see CR working well on the Wii U though.

Going off of hidden gems, it's a good thing Sakurai doesn't pay attention to sales for the most part. Not to mention not having half the roster be Mario and Pokemon characters.

 

[Starphoenix]

Could never really get into Custom Robo on the Gamecube, too bad I sold it. Maybe I'll buy the DS game sometime. I can see CR working well on the Wii U though.

Going off of hidden gems, it's a good thing Sakurai doesn't pay attention to sales for the most part. Not to mention not having half the roster be Mario and Pokemon characters.

I don't know about Custom Robo DS, from what I know Battle Revolution is the superior title. If, hypothetically, Custom Robo came to the Wii U I could see how the Gamepad and gyroscopic sensors could be used in conjunction with the TV.

The only thing I have ever noticed about Sakurai is that despite what people think about sales, all he really takes a look at is whether a series has had a new game or not. While I'm sure this is a shocking revelation (sarcasm), it's just something I noticed. It's part of why stages out of all the content reflect newer games in each series.

 

[nLiM8d]

Life sized is what we're aiming for isn't it? If we're looking into the specifics, Pikachu should only be about chest level to Mario thats counting his ears (check your local Pokedex ladies and gentlemen)

If we were to determine Ray by the scale of his life sized battles, we would be considering bots and other mechs that resemble his own size.

The only thing I have ever noticed about Sakurai is that despite what people think about sales, all he really takes a look at is whether a series has had a new game or not.

I'm sure this approach is borrowed from how most promotions work in the industry.

My landlady often gets hired to review movies. She's shared with me how sometimes she has big name companies prescribe specific guidlines for things that she needs to look out for in a given film. If we're talking the company that produces Sprite, they're looking to make sure that their product is visible enough throughout, if there is a clear presence about their product enough that it is worth their investments. "Are people consuming sprite?"