New Smash Bros for WiiU

[Holder of the Heel]

It's easy as crap to make a 2nd Wario as well.
And it would also rep the Wario Land series, which is horribly underrepped while WarioWare is repped as the majority.

So you are taking back your point? Well that is all I wanted. :D


This is what I posted back then.

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@Shortie You actually interested in the Hades possibility? :D I like the way you think. Everyone think about the idea, because I know it isn't going around much.

Cut Toad and cut Bowser Jr. in favor of adding Paper Mario. Okay okay, I am admittedly just trying to make it seem more like my idea of a roster with this, but I can still explain my way through this a bit. Toad, as has been beaten to death, is a bit on the generic side, even his unique and original self. He would be filled with gimmicks and items that speak nothing of his true character, each move yelling out "Mario Series" rather than "Toad", making it seem like that he is more of Mario Series container running around pretending to be a mushroom container. He hasn't been in thus far although people have been picking at the idea of him since the dawn of time (more or less), and although entirely an assumption, it is almost telling to us now that he hasn't appeared, and that the little lad is need of assistance from Mario games in order to justify him a little bit more. Though his more knowing fans suggest he use his spore and mushroom techniques, which he has actually quite thoroughly shown in the sport games he has been in. These involves shooting spores and summoning mushrooms in both offensive, defensive, and recovery-like fashions. Now stated thus, he becomes a decent contender. Let us go back to this in a bit.

On the subject of Bowser Jr. who has on several occasions appeared as a supporting villain to the Koopa King himself who has already made an impression on Smash Brothers already. Does his son need to make an appearance by his side? Examining the idea of him SSB4, he could use his paintbrush which is basically the one thing that separates him from his other. However, there is one other thing that is quite major: his size. He is speedier and tinier, and therefore, as another has suggested here, he could be a Bowser clone and yet be so drastically different with how his special moves and standard moves fundamentally work that it'd be hard to find them anything alike even still. Couple this with perhaps changing his recovery so he rides the little round vehicle doo-hickey and give him a paintbrush themed final smash, he now suddenly seems like a powerful choice, alongside Toad! But wait, I said cut both of these... but why would I do that?

Now considering Paper Mario, who to the dismay of some/most, he is simply Mario but from a different dimension made of paper (more than what Dr. Mario had though, eh?) However, when thinking of the character, we see that he has his own franchise separate from the 3D Mario world, something the other two lack. He also is flat, made of paper, bearing a hammer and usually coupled with 2D friends of all kinds, and with all this, he justifies his own identity perhaps better than Toon Link can, who is a different reincarnation of Link! Great set potential that even doesn't rely on a sports game like Toad to derive from, no similarities to anyone else like Bowser Jr. does, and although both of those problems carried by those two respectively, as we reviewed, are so small, Paper Mario skips by them, just narrowly surpassing both, holding even his large reputation from his own series, that is developing this very moment.

Having examined the other two, they actually prove to be commendable. But like it or not, Paper Mario is going to be seen a lot of in the future, and it is going to be more original and interesting than what the other two have, not only in quality but in quantity. Plus, 2D is great, just ask Game and Watch, he is a bit lonely, let us give him a 2D friend to Smash with that works just as well as he does if not better!

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[Metal Overlord]

I'm not expecting too much Smash 4 stuff to be revealed at E3. We'll probably just get confirmation that "Sakurai is hard at work on the two new Smash Bros games" or something along those lines. Maybe the official names and a few more concrete details about the interconnectivity feature but that's about it

I'm looking forward to the Wii U reintroduction more and whether a new Star Fox game actually gets revealed at E3 or not

 

[N3ON]

We are only three weeks away from E3. I wonder if we will soon be seeing a deluge of new posters in this thread in anticipation for a possible Smash 4 unveil? I am thinking next week is when we will start to see this. The week before E3 there will be a chaotic euphoria in anticipation for Smash 4's impending unveil.

Keep in mind that Smash 4's unveil will probably not happen at Nintendo's press conference on Tuesday. Brawl was revealed at a separate event later on during that week.

I think an influx of new users in inevitable, and my guess to when they will flood to the thread is when other game sites start pumping out frequent articles about Smash at E3 and Nintendo overall at E3 (which is already starting). It could very well be next week. The week before E3 is going to be crazy on here, I'm glad I now have a backroom to hide in, lol.

I also agree about waiting for a potential reveal later at E3 like Brawl, but I'm just wondering Nintendo's mentality on why they didn't show Brawl during their main conference and why they might not for SSB4. Anybody like to offer some speculation?

 

[lordvaati]

One of Bowser Jr's biggest advantages for inclusion is that he can probably be based off Bowser for some of his moves (specials, notably). People need to start realizing that a prospective newcomer having another character already on the roster for which they can already be based off of, works more to their advantage than it does not. I think it certainly helped Wolf, Lucas, and Toon Link.

Bowser Jr?.nahhh.

Baby Bowser? definitely. he had aground pound and also potentially spat fire. hell,in his first game he even turned into a giant monstrous form like Bowser's FS.

not saying BJ won't borrow from his dad,but one could argue they pull a Wario and make them totally different.

 

[N3ON]

Baby Bowser would make more sense as a clone than Bowser Jr (he is Bowser after all), but Bowser Jr as a partial clone wouldn't be that farfetch'd.

He'd make as much sense as the clones we have now. And I'd like to see him as an original character over clone as much as anybody, but this way might be more likely, especially if the development is pressed for time again.

 

[Deleted member]

Yeah, that means he was never "regulated" as a trophy like you call Waluigi for in Assist Trophy, yet claim Paper Mario is not.
Either way you look at it, there's holes in your logic.

Except that I never stated Waluigi was "regulated", just that he may be relegated to Assist Trophy status. And I never claimed that Paper Mario wasn't "relegated" to trophy status. I'm just stating that Diddy Kong had very good reasons to be promoted to playable status in Brawl. The same can't be said for Waluigi.

 

[ChronoBound]

I also agree about waiting for a potential reveal later at E3 like Brawl, but I'm just wondering Nintendo's mentality on why they didn't show Brawl during their main conference and why they might not for SSB4. Anybody like to offer some speculation?

I think the explanation as to why they chose not to show Brawl at the press conference was because Brawl was a software title that did not utilize the Wii's controller in an innovative way. I also think another reason if that perhaps that were worried about Brawl overshadowing the new titles shown at the press conference.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

First, everybody knows that does the research that Mario spun-off from DK. Yes, Nintendo says otherwise, but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that they just focus on Mario more, plus, keep in mind, with Rare gone, it's pretty hard to get more big DKC(or otherwise) type games.

Onto the Diddy Kong(character) relation to the Trophy stuff... it's likely because Sakurai couldn't put him in as a trophy anymore than he could put him in as a character. As in, at best, he might've been allowed to be mentioned. That's it. So it really isn't the same overall point to Paper Mario. Paper Mario can still get in regardless of Trophy status. I don't find him terribly likely, though.

Waluigi: Yes, he's decently likely. Sakurai likes him, thinks he has some fighting material(the fact that somebody could hack a fully playable version of him as is using the Assist Trophy data alone means he naturally has potential, not that Sakurai will take that into account. All he had was a Jump, an Attack, and regular movement). Now, Dr. Mario is clearly more likely due to already being playable.

Sakurai didn't think Toad was fighting material, making him a shield again in Brawl. He also joked about Waluigi not being playable, meaning he could've thought of him as fightable. Thus, I'd say he's somewhat more likely than Toad. I mean, you know, despite having an appearance and doing fighting to a degree.

As for Bowser Jr..., yeah, don't see him that likely at all.

Something to keep in mind: This is just likely, although let's be honest, I'd rather see characters like Doctor Mario, Paper Mario, Toad, and Bowser Jr.(but not Daisy) in before Waluigi. I am talking about who has a currently better chance solely from what we have. So as of right now, the two most likely Mario characters(besides the veterans) to be playable at this time are currently Doctor Mario and Waluigi. This does not mean this WILL happen. And I'm okay with that too.

Here's the order I see most likely: Doctor Mario, Waluigi, Toad, Paper Mario/Bowser Jr./Random other Mario(pure Mario, not Yoshi, Wario, DK, Luigi characters(like King Boo))

Also, clearly Dixie Kong is more likely than King K. Rool.

What people need to remember is that Most likely =/= What will happen.

 

[N3ON]

I think the explanation as to why they chose not to show Brawl at the press conference was because Brawl was a software title that did not utilize the Wii's controller in an innovative way. I also think another reason if that perhaps that were worried about Brawl overshadowing the new titles shown at the press conference.

Good point. They wouldn't want the game that would inevitably overshadow the rest to be one that didn't use any of the new motion gimmick.

If these were indeed the reasons though, I wouldn't imagine Smash 4 having the same problems, as they would probably want to showcase the interaction between the Wii U and the 3DS. Just speculation here though, but now that Smash 4 can't really rely on its old control scheme (with the GCN controllers), I would image they would also want to showcase how Smash would work with the tablet. Just a guess.

And though this might not be ready to be shown at this E3 (I'm almost positive it won't be) they would probably want to show how Smash 4 would use the NFC technology on the controller, if it actually is used. I'm guessing that would be at E3 2013 though. Or the Fall Media Summit, but not at this E3.

 

[Deleted member]

So you are taking back your point? Well that is all I wanted. :D


This is what I posted back then.

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Point to me exactly what point it is I'm taking back.

 

[Oasis_S]

You guys are acting like you haven't seen anyone post a Paper Mario set ever.

You're acting like we haven't discussed Paper Mario before in this thread that is thousands of pages long. Your ideas are not new, nor compelling.

 

[Holder of the Heel]

You guys said that a Paper Mario set can't be done that isn't filled with hammers, things Mario can do, and the absence of Paper themed stuff. I said that crap is easy. You go, "Yeah, that crap is easy. Here is a different point that is unrelated."

And Oasis... you just said my point. My ideas are so OLD, that is why I'm saying you guys were acting strange because you two have been around more than I have yet I could recall these things. So yeah, you get my point. Not sure your point in saying my point though.

 

[Deleted member]

I never said it can't be done.
I said I've never SEEN one.

Try harder.


Also, I was using the 2nd Wario as an example as to why adding Paper Mario just because "he can be different" and "he represents this series" is stupid.
If you support Paper Mario but not a revamped Overalls Wario, you're a hypocrate.

 

[Metal Overlord]

I hope we get both Dixie and K. Rool

Anyway, I've been thinking this over for a little bit... and now I'm starting to think that there's a serious chance that we may not get any new third party characters this time around. The main reason why I think we may not get any is because of the fact that Sonic was added so late into Brawl. He only really got in because he was not only a highly requested third party character (like Mega Man), he was highly requested in general. Without the crazy demand for him to be in Brawl, we seriously would have only gotten Snake in Brawl, and even in his case, it was because his creator, a good friend of Sakurai's, has wanted him in a Smash game since Melee. So unless...

1. Someone becomes the new Sonic (Mega Man?)
2. Someone becomes the new Snake (Layton?)
3. Sakurai and Nintendo suddenly become more proactive in getting third parties into Smash (which I doubt)

We probably won't get any new third party characters in Smash 4. Personally, I hope that we just keep Sonic and Snake for now

 

[Holder of the Heel]

I just did it, and you admitted it is easy.

You are confusing me Golden.

 

[Deleted member]

You didn't provide a moveset, you just listed things he can do. (Which I already knew)

A moveset is what I've done for Waluigi.

Also, check the edit above.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I'm thinking we will probably see a Rainbow Road track styled after Mario Kart 7.

I did do up a stage concept, which relates to what you inputted. However, it's most likely buried in this very thread by now.

 

[Oasis_S]

You pointed out the most notable papery things he has done, which I even mentioned JUST BEFORE, so why would I find that compelling. It was like, three or four things, some of which wouldn't necessarily even be an actual part of the moveset.

So I mean, good luck with coming up with a moveset without using hammer attacks.

 

[Deleted member]

I hope we get both Dixie and K. Rool

Anyway, I've been thinking this over for a little bit... and now I'm starting to think that there's a serious chance that we may not get any new third party characters this time around. The main reason why I think we may not get any is because of the fact that Sonic was added so late into Brawl. He only really got in because he was not only a highly requested third party character (like Mega Man), he was highly requested in general. Without the crazy demand for him to be in Brawl, we seriously would have only gotten Snake in Brawl, and even in his case, it was because his creator, a good friend of Sakurai's, has wanted him in a Smash game since Melee. So unless...

1. Someone becomes the new Sonic (Mega Man?)
2. Someone becomes the new Snake (Layton?)
3. Sakurai and Nintendo suddenly become proactive in getting third parties into Smash (which I doubt)

We probably won't get any new third party characters in Smash 4. Personally, I hope that we just keep Sonic and Snake for now

I feel as though I'm looking at one of my own posts. O_O
I've said these points before, and now someone agrees with me.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

When you think it over, 3rd party involvement is pretty much just a dream that's destined to fail.

 

[N3ON]

I doubt Sakurai would say how a Capcom character could possibly work in Smash 4 and then not be proactive in trying to get one, especially since if there are any polls done, Megaman will be at least in the Top 3. Plus this isn't the first time Sakurai/Nintendo would be proactive about 3rd parties, Sonic was only included after Nintendo realized how popular and demanded he was, and then got him.

And isn't Megaman already the new Sonic? They are both far and away the most requested 3rd parties. (And Megaman would probably take the 1st place in a Japanese Smash poll (excluding Mewtwo and Roy).

How did involvement from Konami and SEGA in Brawl fail?

That being said, any more than Megaman would surprise me. And if Capcom wasn't open to using Megaman, I could see no new 3rd parties, although due to how successful they were in hyping Brawl, I could see Sakurai try to get another 3rd party (probably not from Capcom) if Megaman fell through.

 

[Holder of the Heel]

I do believe what he DOES is his moveset.... What else would he be doing exactly?

And now you guys are acting like you've never played the Paper Mario games, he has partners and the Pixl things, Paper items, arms, legs, what is the problem here? Standard moves are a synch? I've seen people do it before, multiple times. This stuff is DIRT old.

I don't have to support that Wario. I am confused with this as well. I find Paper Mario more interesting, his series is ongoing, he is far more different than the Mario we have already, people want Paper Mario more than a Warioland Wario with Warioware Wario. You know Warioland Wario as a separate Wario roster slot is a bad idea, they aren't the same thing.

As for me using the things you have said, that was my point, you said you didn't see them in, so I showed you how they can be in. Doi~ No one else can do that either. He can do multiple things like spin, scrunch up and jump up high, ground pound as a dair, you could probably make half a dozen movesets all different from each other that work. This is all from my memory, I haven't even played them in forever, and THERE IS ANOTHER ONE ON THE WAY.

You guys are like, "This has never been done before, just try it" and I try it, and you guys are like, "Yep that's good but you're still wrong" or "Why'd you do what I just asked for? Why?" XD

 

[Deleted member]

Anyway, I've been thinking this over for a little bit... and now I'm starting to think that there's a serious chance that we may not get any new third party characters this time around. The main reason why I think we may not get any is because of the fact that Sonic was added so late into Brawl. He only really got in because he was not only a highly requested third party character (like Mega Man), he was highly requested in general. Without the crazy demand for him to be in Brawl, we seriously would have only gotten Snake in Brawl, and even in his case, it was because his creator, a good friend of Sakurai's, has wanted him in a Smash game since Melee. So unless...

1. Someone becomes the new Sonic (Mega Man?)
2. Someone becomes the new Snake (Layton?)
3. Sakurai and Nintendo suddenly become more proactive in getting third parties into Smash (which I doubt)

We probably won't get any new third party characters in Smash 4. Personally, I hope that we just keep Sonic and Snake for now

Sonic was not only the most highly requested third-party character but by far the most wanted character for Smash. Sakurai stated that two third-parties were a miracle. Which is why I feel that anything above three third-party characters is unrealistic and above four is not happening, even with improved relationships. And even then, three third-party characters is a tall order.

For a new Sonic, I don't think there will be one, but Mega Man is not only currently the most wanted third-party rep, but also probably in the Top 5 most wanted characters (#3 or #4 would be my guess for how wanted he is). Not saying he'll be in, but I could see Sakurai putting in the effort to get him in, especially after noting his popularity for requests ever since pre-Melee (Sakurai noted he got a lot of Mega Man requests back then if I recall).

As for a new Snake, Layton is our choice. With the president of Level-5 wanting him in Smash (and I believe creator of Layton), I can see Level-5's president putting in the effort to get him in.

 

[yani]

A guy on GAF thought maybe Doc could have gotten his own icon in Smash because his stickers aren't with the Mario series.

Thoughts?

 

[N3ON]

I think if the precedent hadn't already been set that the Doc was a Mario character, the theory would have more weight to it. He really hasn't branched out any more than he already was in Melee. Since then he's only had a WiiWare game, and some re-releases, right?

Although while switching series hasn't been done yet, I don't think it would be out of the question if the opportunity arose in the future. Hypothetically if Waluigi was included as a Mario characters but then made an appearance in a Wario game, I could see him being classified as a Wario character consequently.

/mytwocents

 

[Metal Overlord]

@Chaos/Neon Kid- Of course Mega Man is the most wanted 3rd party. But overall, there's still others that are not only just as popular if not more popular choices than him, but they're also Nintendo characters (Ridley, K. Rool, Mewtwo). Sonic was the most wanted character for Brawl overall (I rhymed hurrr) as well as being the most wanted third party, IIRC. I doubt Mega Man'll actually be as popular of a candidate overall as Sonic was (or maybe he will be, we'll see). The fact that a Capcom character for Smash 4 was suggested to Sakurai that early could benefit Mega Man's popularity in the long run

For a new Sonic, I don't think there will be one, but Mega Man is not only currently the most wanted third-party rep, but also probably in the Top 5 most wanted characters (#3 or #4 would be my guess for how wanted he is). Not saying he'll be in, but I could see Sakurai putting in the effort to get him in, especially after noting his popularity for requests ever since pre-Melee (Sakurai noted he got a lot of Mega Man requests back then if I recall).

Huh, I never heard the bolded part before

 

[N3ON]

@Chaos/Neon Kid- Of course Mega Man is the most wanted 3rd party. But overall, there's still others that are not only just as popular if not more popular choices than him, but they're also Nintendo characters (Ridley, K. Rool, Mewtwo). Sonic was the most wanted character for Brawl overall (I rhymed hurrr) as well as being the most wanted third party, IIRC. I doubt Mega Man'll actually be as popular of a candidate overall as Sonic was (or maybe he will be, we'll see). The fact that a Capcom character for Smash 4 was suggested to Sakurai that early could benefit Mega Man's popularity in the long run

That's all true, and I wouldn't really have an argument past that if not for Sakurai's comments about a Capcom character. His acknowledgement of a new possible 3rd party even before development begins bodes well for Megaman's chances, IMO. Plus I think Capcom would we willing to let Nintendo use Megaman (although that's purely speculation since Inafune left). Though Ono wanting to collaborate with Nintendo is also a good sign.

You're right about the other stuff though, I think I overshot Megaman's popularity a little. I still think, not counting veterans, he would be in the top three. But I now agree he wouldn't be the clear #1 like Sonic was.

 

[yani]

I think if the precedent hadn't already been set that the Doc was a Mario character, the theory would have more weight to it. He really hasn't branched out any more than he already was in Melee. Since then he's only had a WiiWare game, and some re-releases, right?

Although while switching series hasn't been done yet, I don't think it would be out of the question if the opportunity arose in the future. Hypothetically if Waluigi was included as a Mario characters but then made an appearance in a Wario game, I could see him being classified as a Wario character consequently.

/mytwocents

I THINK his 3DS game is new, but that wouldn't have mattered anyway. But I understand your point.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

@yani: ...What would his new symbol be, though?

 

[Metal Overlord]

Just had a random thought, does anyone have any ideas on what Dixie's Final Smash could be?

 

[ChronoBound]

@yani: ...What would his new symbol be, though?

Dr. Mario's new symbol would be a megavitamin. I think the thought of Dr. Mario representing his own series comes from the fact that the Dr. Mario stickers and Chill were not grouped with the Mario series in Brawl.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Just had a random thought, does anyone have any ideas on what Dixie's Final Smash could be?

Call in all the unused Kongs(Tiny, Chucky, Cranky, etc.) to attack the opponent(s)? All while the DK Rap(uncensored) plays.

Dr. Mario's new symbol would be a megavitamin. I think the thought of Dr. Mario representing his own series comes from the fact that the Dr. Mario stickers and Chill were not grouped with the Mario series in Brawl.

I was hoping for something else beyond that. Like the three main viruses together.

 

[Deleted member]

@Metal Overlord: I got it from here.

Nothing remotely concrete, and this barely belongs here, but Sakurai says (in response to a fan asking for Rockman / Mega Man) that he gets lots of overseas demand. He doesn’t say anything else on the subject, though.

If I had to say who were ahead of Mega Man in requests, they are Mewtwo and King K. Rool (my guesses for both are #1 and #2). Maybe Ridley as well, but not many people seem to want him in Japan whereas Mega Man is decently requested out there.

 

[N3ON]

I'd be content if Dixie got DK's FS (buffed and tweaked, of course) with her guitar and DK got that multiple-punching-beating-the-crap-outta-you thing he did at the end of DKCR levels.

Call in all the unused Kongs(Tiny, Chucky, Cranky, etc.) to attack the opponent(s)?

I would main Dixie (with items on) if it meant Lanky Kong was part of the moveset.

 

[yani]

@yani: ...What would his new symbol be, though?

I'd guess a megavitamin as well

 

[Wizzrobe]

I'd be content if Dixie got DK's FS (buffed and tweaked, of course) with her guitar and DK got that multiple-punching-beating-the-crap-outta-you thing he did at the end of DKCR levels.

This, I don't really see what else Dixie could have for a FS outside of things in DK64 like shrinking and using the guitar so I would choose something she has in DK64.

 

[Oasis_S]

Her hair could grow really big and stuff.

 

[ChronoBound]

I am thinking Dixie Kong's Final Smash SHOULD be her electric guitar (think the Barbara Assist Trophy). However, I am of the expectation that Dixie Kong's specials will be based off of Diddy Kong's and that she will also have a variation of Diddy Kong's Final Smash.

 

[N3ON]

This, I don't really see what else Dixie could have for a FS outside of things in DK64 like shrinking and using the guitar so I would choose something she has in DK64.

Well, I didn't mean that she couldn't have one unless it came from a past game (alot of characters have FSs that were pretty much made up for Smash), I just thought that DK could have a different FS that still fits him, and his old one would fit Dixie if changed slightly to include her guitar.

Plus, Dixie wasn't in DK64 (Diddy played the guitar in that game), and Tiny was the one that changes sizes. If Dixie could change sizes, that would probably be implemented into her FS.

@Oasis
That would be half amusing and half terrifying.

 

[Oasis_S]

So then she'll fly around with her hair, controlling like Diddy's jetpack, and instead of peanuts she'll spit out bubblegum bombs.