New Smash Bros for WiiU

[Aurane]

The Avengers.... I'mma watch it tonight... -v- So excited...

 

[Sage of Ice]

magnus was like a final fantasy character made of testoserone. giant sword, lots of detail, straps absolutely everywhere, he has it all.

asage: i'm not too eager to deal with the opening-week crowds, so it's just as well that i can't get to see it yet. still, a part of me is waaaay envious.

 

[Starphoenix]

@Star: I'm still working on revamping the stage concept.

I am curious to know what you think about having

Spoiler

Gimle as a stage? Fighting on the back of a giant dragon sounds cool.

Sorry about responding so light. Little tired from a midnight showing of The Avengers.

I like the idea, I have been thinking about that idea since it is

Spoiler

the final chapter stage and everything.

Think it would be an interesting concept.

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

Phoenix Wright for Sm4sh!

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

No Pants, your argument seems pretty weak. How come that all would lead to the fact that Pit was meant to be included in Brawl's an advertisement?

/And I completely disagree, that design doesn't even look like Pit. More like Kratos from GOW-series but with "wings".

 

[Deleted member]

For once, I actually agree with Arcadenik.
On the Magnus getting his own spin-off series concept.

 

[Aurane]

For once, I actually agree with Arcadenik.
On the Magnus getting his own spin-off series concept.

Magicus. Greatest game ever.

 

[Deleted member]

I agree, asageicus.

 

[ssbowns]

@Oasis_S: Once the game is in works it's too late for opinion research. "Hey we have this old character, how about we use him to test the waters?... Awesome, people love him and remember Kid Icarus. We should try reviving the franchise". I think SSB is an amazing platform to advertise the different series and test gamer opinions. With the praise Parappa The Rapper is getting from early peeks at Playstation All-Stars I wouldn't be surprised if Parappa came back in his own game.

@Arcadenik: Atleast I recognized Ice Climbers (and liked the game back on NES), but I still think they are quite an oddball to get in. Don't know about Japanese reception. Then again if you think of the time back then: Who else were available? Many of the current series weren't around or were cold. Many such as Little Mac are for american audience and Balloon Fighter/Duck Hunt dog or such (Pit lol) would be quite an oddball as well. Coincidentally Kid Icarus was quite the same in Brawl, what other options were there? Very few for new entries that are as popular (Supposedly many were waiting for Kid Icarus 2) with a good potential for moveset and as much as I'd like it just pushing out more Mario, DK, Zelda etc. cast it isn't going to do very well. The game needs to bring in a couple of newcomer series so the general public won't go "Oh this again Nintendo is nothing without Mario and Zelda"

@Horsetail: Oh and I do prefer if Sakurai treats Smash 4 as his last. That means he has a good reason to put Toad, K. Rool, Ridley, Little Mac and so on to fill our (my?) nostalgy hunger and make the game even better "All-Stars" confrontation. Thing is, completely new franchises are an uncertainty. People have little nostalgy attachement to them and you never know if the series flops or not, not to mention the extra difficulty these oversaturated game markets give. Atleast Kid Icarus had some momentum from the past, and unique features visible from the first glimpse compared to Golden Sun and Isaac.

I'm just fine with adding those new and obscure characters, once we have the bigger names in. If R.O.B works as a playable character I have little doubt Duck Hunt Dog could work.

It's also why I think Sakurai should go all in with 3rd party characters and look at some names that helped making Nintendo what they are:
Konami, Castlevania and Simon Belmont
Capcom and Megaman? (or Rockman)
Hudson (RIP) and Bomberman
Tecmo, Ninja Gaiden and Ryu Hayabusa
Namco and Pacman
There might be a couple of others I'm forgetting, but atleast those are something every Nintendo gamer knows and easily deserve a spot in "Nintendo All-Stars". Sega and Sonic are (were) Mario's number one rivals so Sonic's spot is deserved too IMO. Konami's Contra is also uber-popular but I'd settle for a stage, AT or some other acknowledgement. I wouldn't want a single 3rd party company get too strong visibility with multiple playable characters.

In short: The more nostalgy Super Smash Bros oozes, the better.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Lol Opinion research, I now gotta agree with Oasis... are you just acting pretty ignorant? Still holding on that made-up advertisement opinion.

Give us a real proof of why Pit would've been put in Brawl just because a KI-revival was been planned all along since Brawl's reveal. Or stop throwing that fake thought around.

And I say it, don't get too high on hopes seeing all your nostalgic characters... your characters aren't any likelier than ours. /Despite coming from more recognizable franchises/

 

[SmashChu]

Basically HAL Laboratory used to be a third-party developer, but when they started making games for the NES, they received financial support from Nintendo. These games failed to generate a large enough income, and in financial crisis were bought out by Nintendo, making them first-party.

Source: http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/HAL研究所
(It's in Japanese)

There is alot of conflicting information about HAL's ownership though, so I'm betting it's a little more complicated than that.

Also just something interesting about Pokemon ownership, the IP is actually split three ways between Game Freak, Creatures Inc (who themselves are Nintendo first-party), and Nintendo. Meaning any possible future Rare-type separation would be legal hell. I'm not sure how they got away with that Pokemon app in the first place.

Oh, the wonders of Japanese wikipedia.

If this is the case, it prove my theory right. So far in Smash, the only series that have been added are 1st party ones (although Pokemon is a little iffy). It might change, but it seems they like to stick with first party characters for playable ones.

 

[Starphoenix]

Oh, the wonders of Japanese wikipedia.

If this is the case, it prove my theory right. So far in Smash, the only series that have been added are 1st party ones (although Pokemon is a little iffy). It might change, but it seems they like to stick with first party characters for playable ones.

So, out of the characters we frequently discuss, where would they line up as far as first and second party are concerned?

 

[Oasis_S]

Hmmm... Where does that put Saki? Treasure made S&P, but it was under Nintendo's directive. So Nintendo owns the series. Kind of like how Diddy, while made by Rare, is all Nintendo's property. So like... is Saki... first party?

 

[Big-Cat]

Hmmm... Where does that put Saki? Treasure made S&P, but it was under Nintendo's directive. So Nintendo owns the series. Kind of like how Diddy, while made by Rare, is all Nintendo's property. So like... is Saki... first party?

Since that's makes Treasure work for hire, then yes, Saki is first party. And if I recall, Brawl's start screen makes no references to Treasure under the copyrights.

 

[Oasis_S]

Such great happiness.

 

[Deleted member]

Oh, the wonders of Japanese wikipedia.

If this is the case, it prove my theory right. So far in Smash, the only series that have been added are 1st party ones (although Pokemon is a little iffy). It might change, but it seems they like to stick with first party characters for playable ones.

Mother is a 2nd Party too. It was made by Creatures Inc. while they were still Ape Inc.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Yes, Olimar was more recognizable than Isaac. Agreed.

However, Isaac is not a generic swordsman. He has actual Psynergy. Hell, none of the Swordsman are "generic" in Smash at all.

 

[---]

Sorry about responding so light. Little tired from a midnight showing of The Avengers.

I like the idea, I have been thinking about that idea since it is

Spoiler

the final chapter stage and everything.

Think it would be an interesting concept.

Man, everyone's off to see the Avengers. I'll have to go see if I can go see it today while everyone is at school or work, if not then on Monday.

Awakening has a lot of possible stage concepts that could be done. I wonder if FE could get another stage then...

The Great Tree of Mila
Rainbow Falls
Dragon's Altar

Spoiler

Gimle

Those would all make for good stages IMO. Having both

Spoiler

Gimle

and Dragon's Altar sounds a bit reduntant though, as they're both FC based stages.

 

[ssbowns]

Give us a real proof of why Pit would've been put in Brawl just because a KI-revival was been planned all along since Brawl's reveal. Or stop throwing that fake thought around.

I didn't say that. Might be there were some plans of new KI even before Brawl, might be that he was put in the game to give him more spotlight just in case or it might be positive reaction towards his inclusion. Or it might be completely unreleated, Pit was included in Brawl and then some time later someone just thought hey lets make Kid Icarus 2, which I doubt.

I'm not getting hopes up, just stating what I'd like to see and why I've always viewed the game mainly as nostalgy Nintendo all-stars. Anyway I don't think my wishful additions are that different.

By using the "trend" of inclusion:
1. Additions to current franchises (biggest)
- King K. Rool
- Ridley
- Toad
- Team Rocket (Meowth, Arbok, Weezing/Mewtwo)
- Samurai Goroh
- Black Knight
- Waluigi
- Palutena
- Paper Mario (I wouldn't mind if he had Zero Suit Samus treatment. You can start as Mario or Paper Mario, or Tanooki, Super etc. but can then switch)

2. New franchises (Brawl had Wario, Pikmin and Kid Icarus)
- Little Mac (Punch-Out)
- Isaac (Golden Sun)
- Andy/Max/Sami team (Nintendo wars)

3. WTF (Game&Watch, R.O.B)
- Zapper (Sounds weird, but implement Duck Hunt Dog, Wild Gunmen and Hogan's Alley in some way. The basic character is Duck Hunt Dog with basic attacks, but specials involve everything Zapper releated)

4. 3rd Party
- Megaman
- Hayabusa
(- If possible cut Snake and bring Simon Belmont instead)

 

[SmashChu]

Basically HAL Laboratory used to be a third-party developer, but when they started making games for the NES, they received financial support from Nintendo. These games failed to generate a large enough income, and in financial crisis were bought out by Nintendo, making them first-party.

Source: http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/HAL研究所
(It's in Japanese)

There is alot of conflicting information about HAL's ownership though, so I'm betting it's a little more complicated than that.

Also just something interesting about Pokemon ownership, the IP is actually split three ways between Game Freak, Creatures Inc (who themselves are Nintendo first-party), and Nintendo. Meaning any possible future Rare-type separation would be legal hell. I'm not sure how they got away with that Pokemon app in the first place.

So, out of the characters we frequently discuss, where would they line up as far as first and second party are concerned?

Hmmm... Where does that put Saki? Treasure made S&P, but it was under Nintendo's directive. So Nintendo owns the series. Kind of like how Diddy, while made by Rare, is all Nintendo's property. So like... is Saki... first party?

Saki is second party. Treasure made the game, but Nintendo published it. Second parties can still get in I think. It just seems like they try to move away from it due to changing right. It might be hard to include a character one day and than have rights get mangled up and not be able to include them in another game.

For Star's question, there aren't many first party series not already in Smash. Punch-Out, Mysterious Murasame Castle, Xenoblade, The Wii series, and Rhythm Heaven are all first party titles. There are other ones which don't come up such as Fossile Fighters and Magical Starsign. Most classic games that get brought up are first party, so this include Mach Rider and Panel De Pon if anyone cares.

All of these developers are Nintendo owned, so if you saw they made a game, then it's a first party game.

Intelligent Systems
Monolith
Creature Inc
HAL labs (with the new info)
Retro Studios
ND Cube (they made Wii Party and Mario Party 9)
Brownie Brown
Project Sora

Lastly, on Rare. Rare actually was never wholly owned by Nintendo. Nintendo owned 49% of the company, and Yamauchi did that to give the company more freedom. It's also why Microsoft could take them so easily.

Lastly, this could change. It's not a sure thing that only first party characters become playable. Just that it's the norm up until now.

 

[Oasis_S]

Isn't Camelot pretty much in the same boat as Game Freak. They both have made games for other consoles before Nintendo picked them up.

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

Saki is second party. Treasure made the game, but Nintendo published it. Second parties can still get in I think. It just seems like they try to move away from it due to changing right. It might be hard to include a character one day and than have rights get mangled up and not be able to include them in another game.

For Star's question, there aren't many first party series not already in Smash. Punch-Out, Mysterious Murasame Castle, Xenoblade, The Wii series, and Rhythm Heaven are all first party titles. There are other ones which don't come up such as Fossile Fighters and Magical Starsign. Most classic games that get brought up are first party, so this include Mach Rider and Panel De Pon if anyone cares.

All of these developers are Nintendo owned, so if you saw they made a game, then it's a first party game.

Intelligent Systems
Monolith
Creature Inc
HAL labs (with the new info)
Retro Studios
ND Cube (they made Wii Party and Mario Party 9)
Brownie Brown
Project Sora

Lastly, on Rare. Rare actually was never wholly owned by Nintendo. Nintendo owned 49% of the company, and Yamauchi did that to give the company more freedom. It's also why Microsoft could take them so easily.

Lastly, this could change. It's not a sure thing that only first party characters become playable. Just that it's the norm up until now.

And don't forget Sandbox, who developed Zangeki no Renileiv and Choujou Mecha MG.

 

[SmashChu]

Isn't Camelot pretty much in the same boat as Game Freak. They both have made games for other consoles before Nintendo picked them up.

Camelot isn't first party, but they have worked with Nintendo the most in recent years.

And don't forget Sandbox, who developed Zangeki no Renileiv and Choujou Mecha MG.

They aren't first party. They've made games for the 360.

 

[Deleted member]

I'm pretty sure Creatures/Ape is a 2nd Party.

Or at least when it was Ape.

 

[Oasis_S]

WellIwasn'tsayingtheywere, just that they're in the same boat as Game Freak. Not that it means a whole lot.

I think it just happens to be that most first party characters are vastly more popular than the smaller series. That itself is the hurdle, not the status of their developer in relation to Nintendo.

 

[---]

Isn't Camelot pretty much in the same boat as Game Freak. They both have made games for other consoles before Nintendo picked them up.

Pulseman? :3

 

[Oasis_S]

Pulseman? :3

Plusleman.

 

[Starphoenix]

Man, everyone's off to see the Avengers. I'll have to go see if I can go see it today while everyone is at school or work, if not then on Monday.

Awakening has a lot of possible stage concepts that could be done. I wonder if FE could get another stage then...

The Great Tree of Mila
Rainbow Falls
Dragon's Altar

Spoiler

Gimle

Those would all make for good stages IMO. Having both

Spoiler

Gimle

and Dragon's Altar sounds a bit reduntant though, as they're both FC based stages.

Personally I think if we get a Fire Emblem: Awakening stage than it should play up the dragon angle, since that is one of the main premises of the game as well as being a common theme throughout the series. Either of the two last choices would be best.

Saki is second party. Treasure made the game, but Nintendo published it. Second parties can still get in I think. It just seems like they try to move away from it due to changing right. It might be hard to include a character one day and than have rights get mangled up and not be able to include them in another game.

For Star's question, there aren't many first party series not already in Smash. Punch-Out, Mysterious Murasame Castle, Xenoblade, The Wii series, and Rhythm Heaven are all first party titles. There are other ones which don't come up such as Fossile Fighters and Magical Starsign. Most classic games that get brought up are first party, so this include Mach Rider and Panel De Pon if anyone cares.

All of these developers are Nintendo owned, so if you saw they made a game, then it's a first party game.

Intelligent Systems
Monolith
Creature Inc
HAL labs (with the new info)
Retro Studios
ND Cube (they made Wii Party and Mario Party 9)
Brownie Brown
Project Sora

Lastly, this could change. It's not a sure thing that only first party characters become playable. Just that it's the norm up until now.

I do not think it is that Sakurai sets out not to include second party characters rather it is just easier to negotiate with first party subsidiaries versus second. There is so much that goes on in the negotiation process anyways that minimizing some of the complications is probably easier. If we do see another second party character I am still hedging my bet on Saki. Apart from that I think those series you listed will probably be the only new series that will correspond with a character.

Saki Amamiya
Takamaru
Shulk
Little Mac
Mii

I could see that.

 

[---]

Plusleman.

Admittingly, Pulseman is on my dream roster. Who needs another silly Pokemon rep when you can have him?

Personally I think if we get a Fire Emblem: Awakening stage than it should play up the dragon angle, since that is one of the main premises of the game as well as being a common theme throughout the series. Either of the two last choices would be best.

Revamping this concept just got a whole lot tougher, I just need to decide if I want to go with FE3/12 or 13, and if I want to somehow throw

Spoiler

Gimle

into the mix.

 

[Holder of the Heel]

Looking through the pages I have missed, I just have one thing to say to my young Grasshopper.

Genericness of a character is not subjective. If someone is plain as ****, its objectively plain as ****.

Oh, and everyone be nice to the Smash Cadet. That is a new recruit you're talking to.

 

[Starphoenix]

Revamping this concept just got a whole lot tougher, I just need to decide if I want to go with FE3/12 or 13, and if I want to somehow throw

Spoiler

Gimle

into the mix.

Keep in mind Sakurai likes mixing themes into each other. Like how Castle Siege is a conglomeration of the various themes throughout the Fire Emblem series.

Toad
King K. Rool
Palutena
Mewtwo
Zoroark
Roy
Ridley
Bandana Dee
Krystal

Saki Amamiya
Takamaru
Shulk
Little Mac
Mii

 

[---]

Keep in mind Sakurai likes mixing themes into each other. Like how Castle Siege is a conglomeration of the various themes throughout the Fire Emblem series.

I was leaning towards something like that, maybe I'll pull a Spear Pillar or Mushroomy Kingdom then. I'll work on it and hopefully have something later tonight.

How's that Uprising stage coming along? Or are you still busy with finals?

 

[Oasis_S]

Looking through the pages I have missed, I just have one thing to say to my young Grasshopper.

Genericness of a character is not subjective. If someone is plain as ****, its objectively plain as ****.

I dunno, tell that to Arcadenik and his love of the dog which hunts ducks.

 

[Starphoenix]

I was leaning towards something like that, maybe I'll pull a Spear Pillar or Mushroomy Kingdom then. I'll work on it and hopefully have something later tonight.

How's that Uprising stage coming along? Or are you still busy with finals?

Spoiler

I still think having the characters fighting on the back of Gimle would be a phenomenol atmosphere. Maybe having him go over some of the various kingdoms like Iris and Perezia. In the background gateways will be opening up dropping the dark soldiers across the land, or even onto parts of the dragon itself. At points you can have the dragon's head wrap around to where the characters are and launch an attack in similar fashion to the last chapter of Awakening. Just some ideas.

As far as the Kid Icarus stage goes I really have not done anything. Finals have been a part of it, yes; but I also have work and have been hanging out with my friends and family more. In addition I'm wanting to stay off the PC more after I'm through with my last class. Long story short it's probably going to be a little while.

 

[SmashChu]

I do not think it is that Sakurai sets out not to include second party characters rather it is just easier to negotiate with first party subsidiaries versus second. There is so much that goes on in the negotiation process anyways that minimizing some of the complications is probably easier. If we do see another second party character I am still hedging my bet on Saki. Apart from that I think those series you listed will probably be the only new series that will correspond with a character.

Saki Amamiya
Takamaru
Shulk
Little Mac
Mii

I could see that.

That's what I think as well. I think it's also to avoid that change that the copyrights could fall though. That's pretty much what happened with Rare.

Also, another thing is most of the big Nintendo series are made by Nintendo, usually in house.

 

[Holder of the Heel]

I dunno, tell that to Arcadenik and his love of the dog which hunts ducks.

That's because they are delusional. I have requested to see how interesting he could be on multiple occasions and was promised proof but it never arrived.

STOP CLINGING TO THE LIES YOU FOOLS AND ACCEPT JESUS CHRIST IT

 

[Oasis_S]

Not gonna lie, Jesus could be a pretty interesting character. Though Takamaru can walk on water too, so he might be a clone. What would his Final Smash be? Lot of options.

He's first-party too, since he's everything and Nintendo is a thing. Though I guess that also means he's third-party. Freaking omnis.

 

[yani]

Creatures Inc is definitely first party.

 

[Lukingordex]

Not gonna lie, Jesus could be a pretty interesting character. Though Takamaru can walk on water too, so he might be a clone. What would his Final Smash be? Lot of options.

He's first-party too, since he's everything and Nintendo is a thing. Though I guess that also means he's third-party. Freaking omnis.

I am atheist.

Will you hate me?

 

[Deleted member]

I'm a Poketheist.
All hail Arceus.


jk.