New Smash Bros for WiiU

[~ Valkyrie ~]

I don't want to burst your guys' bubble... but I've been somewhat considering of leaving this board.

I don't have anyone to support now after many now think Starfy's unlikely. Lip's already more than unlikely.

It makes me pretty sad that Smash Bros won't ever use anything other than mainstream franchise characters.

Along with the fact that Sakurai's looking more forward to make this series casual, I'm losing faith on Smash Bros bringing me real to wow on.

Until there's something that really makes me happy and hooks me up, I might not be interested on Smash very much as before.

...

(-í_ì-)

 

[BirthNote]

Edit: Also, will someone tape the E3 and put in on this page? There's not much chance of me being there...

Tape it? It'll be live and you'll be able to catch some re-runs if you miss it.

 

[yani]

We love you though Horsetail

 

[Opossum]

If it counts for anything, I still think Starfy's pretty likely. Just a gut feeling. Don't leave, Horsetail! It'll ruin all the fun of you speculating and stuff! That, and you're one of the really nice frequenters of the board.D:

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

I knoow...

But why to be here if I know I'm gonna disappoint myself expecting characters I'm strongly supporting (Lip, Starfy, even Garet)

And if Starfy's so likely, why he had to be cut from Shortie's "Everyone's Input"-roster.
I thought you were keeping him in high regard as the other huge newcomers as K.Rool, Toad, Isaac, Ridley and whatnot.

 

[Metal Overlord]

@Horsetail- But don't you still have Palutena to look forward to? Besides, Starfy is definitely one of the most likely AT characters (other than like, Little Mac and Saki)

You mah boi, Horsetail. You can't leave now of all times! C'mon now lol we haven't even seen anything of Smash yet. The real journey to launch date hasn't even started yet. The day when this goddamned game gets its first trailer will be a sweet one (which could be a month or so from now or at least later this year). You don't want to miss out on all that, do you?

 

[Cobalsh]

Gosh, yeah, I'm young, but I gotta lot of knowledge fromn video games in general. Also, check this out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2Hy5z-krL4&feature=related
Just.Watch.It. Teenage mind control, never fails.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Metal: Of course. but she's to be expected... besides I wanted to see a true newcomer. Someone who I GREW UP with to see in Smash. (okay, not necessarily in childhood).

And I wouldn't ever forgive Sakurai if Starfy's an AT again... especially if he's as crappy as in Brawl.

Though... you have a good point. I just have lost my faith on my supported "true newcomers", that's all. (-ú^ù-)

 

[Opossum]

Honestly, I actually see Starfy as more likely than Saki as far as ATs, believe it or not. I won't go into a long explanation now, but my hierarchy is Little Mac > Isaac > Goroh > Starfy > Saki.

 

[GiantBreadbug]

Jill.

Jill Jill Jill.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Anyway, 4am in my country, must get some shuteye...

I try to think over this. SSBF had very good points though on why Starfy might be unlikely to be included in SSB4...

 

[GiantBreadbug]

And I feel you, Horsetail. I'm thinking about leaving the thread for awhile, just because it's so cyclical and hive-minded. Perhaps just until E3. But yeah, I've come to the point that replying and "debating" (which really just turns into pointless arguing) isn't worth it for me, and people are going to think/feel the way they want to, period.

But yeah, a break would be good for me at least.

 

[Holder of the Heel]

Holder, what do you see in Paper Mario then that you think makes him a legitimate contender for Smash

I've already made a big post about Jr., Toad, and why Paper Mario was superior.

Besides, no one has ever given any reasons against him really.

And Breadbug, I think I'm pretty open-minded. D<

 

[Metal Overlord]

You posted dat ish in here, Heel?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Honestly, you shouldn't leave, Horsetail. You're too awesome.

The thing is, Starfy doesn't scream much to me. Nor did Slime.

This doesn't mean I'm wrong, and I'm sure I am. I have yet to play the game.

You shouldn't be discouraged to leave. You're not annoying about your like of Starfy, either, you know.

 

[Hypercat-Z]

Guys! Guys! The point is why are just talking of the characters that will be and will be not. And a lot of us will be surely disapppointed by the real thing that will come out, since it can't grant all of our wishes.
What about talking about othr aspect of the games, like the modes, just for example?

 

[Holder of the Heel]

Yeah dude, not too long ago, I did for Shortie's game.

 

[GiantBreadbug]

Not pointing any fingers, not at all.

It's just come to the point that (as an example) if I see someone say "Tom Nook has no chance, Sakurai already said no," it's honestly not worth discussing for me, because I've lurked here enough to know that a good majority follows who they perceive to be the intellectual leader of the community, and I just find myself at odds with that faction a lot.

Not saying there aren't plenty of open-minded people here, it's just that I've grown weary of "speculating" for awhile.

 

[Shorts]

Honestly, I actually see Starfy as more likely than Saki as far as ATs, believe it or not. I won't go into a long explanation now, but my hierarchy is Little Mac > Isaac > Goroh > Starfy > Saki.

Did I mention Sakurai is a big fan of Saki?

You're world was just flipped.

Anyone else notice Sakurai's obsession with arcade shooters?

Kirby's Dream Land - Kabula Fight
Kirby's Adventure - Nightmare Fight
Kirby Super Star - Heart of Nova
Super Smash Bros. Melee - Credits
Super Smash Bros. Brawl - Roll Call
Super Smash Bros. Brawl - Coin Launcher
Kid Icarus: Uprising - Flight Gameplay

Not to mention all the Star Fox love and endorsing Sin & Punishment on the Dojo. My money says this is relevant, even if S&P2 bombed hard.

Plus, look at freaking KIU.

 

[Metal Overlord]

Saki confirmed? lol

 

[Deleted member]

Going on the topic of Assist Trophies, I feel as these are our potential reps:

Little Mac
Isaac
Saki
Starfy
Ray
Samurai Goroh

Of those, I think we'll see at least three and I'm currently saying they are Little Mac, Isaac, and Samurai Goroh. However, I can easily see a fourth one as well with Saki being my guess if it does happen. Starfy I think has a reasonable shot, thought not as likely and as cool as Ray would be, I doubt he's getting in.

Isaac > Little Mac=Saki=Samurai Goroh > Starfy > Ray

Anyway, 4am in my country, must get some shuteye...

I try to think over this. SSBF had very good points though on why Starfy might be unlikely to be included in SSB4...

If you want to be able to support a character, don't give up just because you have a difficult time countering a point made against a character you support (like I did with Victini ). Support the character as much as possible and you just might be able to gain some people on your side.

Not saying you should try to go all out and try to make a fan campaign for it, but if you truly do feel as Starfy is a likely candidate, you shouldn't back down.

 

[Opossum]

I know he likes Saki, but it's just a gut feeling. I can't explain it and it holds no weight in an argument, it's just a premonition I have.

 

[Deleted member]

If there were three AT series that I bet have proven their worth to Sakurai since Brawl, they'd be Sin & Punishment, Punch-Out!!, and Legendary Starfy.

As for Golden Sun, if he didn't find that series worthy in Brawl's time, there's no way he'd find it worthy now with Dark Dawn...

 

[Metal Overlord]

Samurai Goroh > Everyone

 

[Johnknight1]

@ Golden
It's not that Golden Sun's series wasn't worthy (hint: it has sold about as well as Star Fox, and better than F-Zero, MOTHER, Ice Climber, and Pikmin), it's that Brawl was much more limited with spots. There were simply a ton of characters that quite frankly were of very high priority to be added. Diddy Kong (he was 100% needed), King Dedede (also 100% needed), Meta Knight, Lucario (popular as heck, Lucas (was supposed to be in Melee), Ike (100% needed), Captain Olimar (totally unlike any other character and needed), Wario (the biggest snub from Melee!), Pit (hinted at in Melee, planned for Smash 64), R.O.B. Sonic (the most well-known character not in smash), etc.

Plus the series is a lot more "worthy" than Sin & Punishment, which quite frankly sells about as well as a minor league lacrosse game.

Edit: Went to a tournament yesterday and played Project M. Holy crap Ike IS GOD!!! He's like Melee Falcon-but with MORE RANGE AND POWER!!!

Spoiler

Toon Link is surprisingly broken!

 

[Deleted member]

John. Sales has nothing to do with it.

And Sakurai has flat out said that the only two newer series he felt were worthy of a character were Pikmin and Animal Crossing. And then he gets into the whole "Animal Crossing characters wouldn't fit the violent nature" story. While following up that he COULD'VE given a moveset for a Crosser if he deemed it appropriate.

 

[Deleted member]

John. Sales has nothing to do with it.

And Sakurai has flat out said that the only two newer series he felt were worthy of a character were Pikmin and Animal Crossing.

Is this against Golden Sun? If so, that series came out before Melee.

 

[Deleted member]

Is this against Golden Sun? If so, that series came out before Melee.

So did Pikmin and Animal Crossing.

Besides, it's what Sakurai said.

 

[Johnknight1]

So=??? After Melee (but before Brawl was announced) Sakurai gave no indication of how worthy he felt Wario series characters were. The same thing was true with Donkey Kong. Heck, Sakurai has even gone against his words. He said he felt too humble to add his own characters, yet in Brawl, he added two (Meta Knight and King Dedede). The point is, Sakurai is the master manipulator. Remember the Lucas Dojo update the "deconfirmed" Ness fiasco=??? Total mind game. Sakurai knows mind games.

Besides, Sakurai's opinion doesn't mean everything this time around. Remember, he is relying on his staff a bit more than he was with Smash 64, Melee, and Brawl. Or so he says.

*crosses fingers for HAL Laboratories to be the primary/lead developing company while all the companies that worked on Brawl are secondary developers*​

 

[Deleted member]

So did Pikmin and Animal Crossing.

Besides, it's what Sakurai said.

Going by that logic, Starfy isn't "worthy" in Sakurai's eyes either.

And I believe those comments were four years ago. Things could have changed since then.

 

[Johnknight1]

Like I said, Sakurai said he felt too humble to add characters he created not named Kirby after Melee came out.

Then he added Meta Knight and King Dedede pretty quickly in Brawl!

Clearly, Sakurai never changes his mind. Only a fool would do that! A smart person never changes there mind!

Spoiler

Even if the completely true proof proves them wrong!

 

[Aaven]

Yes, Samurai Goroh all they for Smash 4. PLEASE.

@Johnknight: Ike is ridiculous in Project: M, I also played it a State PR tournament the day before yesterday and Ike felt way OP, I kind of lost interest in him because he seemed so easy to be good with, I like him in Vanilla Brawl because maining him is a challenge and every win I get with him is highly satisfying.

 

[Johnknight1]

@ Aaven
Ike's like Bowser with more speed and range, lulz. But for reals, he's not too broken. He lacks in recovery options, is easy to run around, and doesn't have the best approach.
Toon Link, on the other hand, is completely broken. He has amazing everything, minus melee range. He's got ridiculous projectiles, and all of his aerials have A+++ priority.

I wouldn't say that no one knows who Geno is. Remember that Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars sold over 1.5 million copies, so there must be plenty of non-Smash fans who remember Geno.

That was almost 2 decades ago. While it could create new smash fans, it wouldn't be very many who don't already play smash. Pac-Man's fan base would be largely new players.

To say that no one knows who Layton is a huge underestimate of his popularity. His games have consistently sold very well with critical acclaims and his fame will only go up as time go on. Layton's fan base should expect to increase considerably and for Smash as well.

Most of the series' sales are in Japan, as well as the popularity of the series. That's 1 country that probably will account for 1/6th-1/8th of Smash Bros' sales. If this was America (where probably more than half of smash bros sales come from), then that would definitely make Layton a leading candidate. However, as it stands, that doesn't do much for Smash, unless Sakurai wants to aim specifically for Japan (again?).

And Pac-Man would not generate more revenue or awareness for Smash. Smash is already incredibly notable that even adding someone as famous as Pac-Man wouldn't make a notable increase in sales.

Not everyone knows what Smash Bros is. And even those who do, they might just see it as an extension of Mario Party or Mario spin-offs. Plus, as I previously stated, according to some polls, Pac-Man (the game and the character) is the most recognizable (game and character) in video games.
Dang near everyone in 1st world countries have played, or have heard of and know what Pac-Man or Mrs. Pac-Man is. You can't say that about Smash Bros.
And trust me, Pac-Man would generate more awareness, attention, hype, and revenue than Professor Layton. To even argue against that sounds silly Smash Layton fan.

 

[Metal Overlord]

I'm just gonna take the time to say this: Fulgore from Killer Instinct for Smash

Or at least Glacius

 

[Johnknight1]

If by both of those characters you meant mai boi Mega Man, I agree Metal!

Fact still remains. The point is that Melee is not as great as people want to make it out to be. Still greats, but Brawl has trumped it. The reason Japan's sales are important is because it shows something was wrong with Melee which Sakurai said he went away from in Brawl. It's an indicator.

A steep learning curve. We all recognize that was a problem. You take that away, and Melee has no flaws, other than basic balancing issues.

And even so, Brawl and Smash 64 have worse balancing than Melee. Brawl had a character banned, and Pikachu in Smash 64 is about 7-tier categories above everyone else.

 

[Linkshot]

Or at least Glacius

4BR, instate a pre-emptive ban on Glacius, please.

 

[Deleted member]

@John
In the eyes of Sakurai, Wario is a Mario character. Just that he doubles as a representative of his own subseries. (He also counts Yoshi and Donkey Kong (and possibly Diddy Kong) as Mario characters that represent their own subseries as well.) On the pre-Melee poll, Wario had a few games in the Wario Land series, yet he was still listed as a Mario character.

And it also should be noted that he felt Brawl would be the last game he would work on (well, Sakurai felt Melee would be the last one he'd make as well, but Miyamoto pulled some strings. (Miyamoto is the main manipulator, not Sakurai)).
That, and people were demanding Meta Knight and Dedede (as well as Dedede was planned for both Melee and Brawl anyway). Why people always assume "oh, Sakurai is biased. That's why both Meta Knight and Dedede got in Brawl" is beyond me, especially when you think about how Dedede was shafted twice before, and it was not until the THIRD game in the series that they got in.

And you do realize that the English Dojo updates were not done by Sakurai, right? Try translating the Japanese version of Lucas' post to see if it is as "trolling" as the English one.
Especially considering that it was just was people INTERPRETED that made it seem like Ness was gone. Just like how people keep saying that Capcom lied about Hsien-Ko in Marvel 3 and that they said that there was no more Darkstalkers characters prior to her reveal (when they didn't actually say that). Or when they said that they couldn't get BOTH Juggernaut and Sentinel, so people jumped the gun and said Sentinel was going to be excluded.

@SSBF:
You really don't read, do you.
I said that NOW, Sin & Punishment, Starfy, and Punch-Out!! are likely to have proven their worth.
Golden Sun, given the poor reception of Dark Dawn, (reception is a better key than sales, especially when you consider the reception for Golden Sun is only decent in the West) is not likely to have "changed Sakurai's mind" about the series.
But even then, Sakurai has already shown interest in a Sin & Punishment character. The game getting a sequel might be enough to add one.

 

[Aaven]

@ Aaven
Ike's like Bowser with more speed and range, lulz. But for reals, he's not too broken. He lacks in recovery options, is easy to run around, and doesn't have the best approach

Lolol but he can Quick Draw into the wall and continuously jump off of it to gain vertical momentum, that's already unheard of for Ike, his Quick Draw was buffed too much from my perspective. His recovery in P:M just seems amazing to me, I know I was ****** people in my scene that had been veterans to P:M and that was my first time ever playing, it seemed a bit OP in my opinion.

He can also combo into his Fsmash, that just seems ridiculous to me.

 

[Metal Overlord]

C'mon now, who WOULDN'T want this in Smash

[COLLAPSE="Badassery"]

[/COLLAPSE]

DEM PLASMUH CLAWS

 

[Johnknight1]

In the eyes of Sakurai, Wario is a Mario character. Just that he doubles as a representative of his own subseries. (He also counts Yoshi and Donkey Kong (and possibly Diddy Kong) as Mario characters that represent their own subseries as well.) On the pre-Melee poll, Wario had a few games in the Wario Land series, yet he was still listed as a Mario character.

That's because it is well known Sakurai doesn't like Wario Land. However, he likes Wario Ware. Which is why Wario Ware got a stage

Spoiler

despite being a worse series

.

And it also should be noted that he felt Brawl would be the last game he would work on (well, Sakurai felt Melee would be the last one he'd make as well, but Miyamoto pulled some strings. (Miyamoto is the main manipulator, not Sakurai)).

I think after the lengths Nintendo went to, Sakurai knew it wouldn't be his last smash game. If anything, it became in indication that he'd make 1 smash bros game a generation.

That, and people were demanding Meta Knight and Dedede (as well as Dedede was planned for both Melee and Brawl anyway). Why people always assume "oh, Sakurai is biased. That's why both Meta Knight and Dedede got in Brawl" is beyond me, especially when you think about how Dedede was shafted twice before, and it was not until the THIRD game in the series that they got in.

No, I'm saying Sakurai went against what he previously said. He previously said he would keep characters he created out (except Kirby) as not to promote himself. Also, Meta Knight, while he did have a fan base, it wasn't that big pre-Brawl. King Dedede's was a massive cult. Like, a cult the size of France!

And you do realize that the English Dojo updates were not done by Sakurai, right? Try translating the Japanese version of Lucas' post to see if it is as "trolling" as the English one.

It was translated pretty well from Japanese, actually. I asked a bunch of my "sources" who know Japanese about it. Basically, it said that same thing in nearly the same order.

Especially considering that it was just was people INTERPRETED that made it seem like Ness was gone.

I think Sakurai did it to surprise everyone... or troll everyone. Most of us already knew that on the Melee Dojo Ness was going to be replaced by EarthBound 64's main character, which even back then was Lucas in a pretty similar form to how Lucas ended out.