New Smash Bros for WiiU

[Metal Overlord]

"Original Smellve.png"

Lmfao

 

[N3ON]

Sorry Horsetail, I actually do have stuff to say about your Starfy post, I was just off when you posted.

So he's not likely anymore because:

- He's not popular

- He wouldn't prove to be very much of an interesting fighter

- TOSE-copyright issues?

- Sakurai doesn't like him.

I think the first two point here are incorrect, as he is very popular in Japan (according to Chrono's findings) and could be as interesting a fighter as any other character, with 5 games, he's got a decent amount of material to work with in making a unique and interesting moveset. The copyright issues might be there, but I think given enough planning, he could legally be made a playable character, it's not like the legal issues kept him entirely out of Brawl. I don't think the last point here has ever been confirmed -- but strangely enough if true it could be a hindrance to Starfy, lol.

And since he's no more Japan-only, he's now more eligible for Smash.

There's no rule that characters exclusive to Japan cannot be made playable characters, (Marth, Roy, Lucas), but I agree that now that he's worldwide, he has a better chance.

As to all the moveset talk, my opinion is that Starfy has enough to work with so that his moveset wouldn't be "forced" or made up. He probably would use his limbs and spinning and that weird head-point stabby move. Anyway, this wouldn't be Starfy's problem for possible lack of inclusion.

- Now here's something what I thought: Starfy-series, unlike some other series we've seen in Smash, could actually bring a new element to the series that could enchance the gameplay: the marine moving element.

What if we could have fights underwater? What if characters get to have a fully functional ability to swim and even go underwater?

I'm still mixed on underwater fights, but I think that Starfy should be the best swimmer in Smash, (or at least tied for first with Squirtle).

- Starfy's universe boasts also many kinds of NPC's. These would make appearance in Smash enough to warrant an Assist Trophy, many trophies around Starfy-series, and so on. Heck, we'd have stage having lots of NPCs watching the battle like Animal Crossing Villagers and NPCs in Smashville.

I feel that while all the NPCs in Starfy are interesting, they really wouldn't add to his chance of being playable. I don't think Sakurai uses NPC supporting characters as a basis to add main protagonists anyway. Having said that, I would like to see someone like Ogura or Moe as an AT, although it would probably be Starly. If Starfy didn't get her as an alt costume.

- TOSE-issues copyright thing seems like something we could apply to many other series. Why didn't Golden Sun get a playable rep and anything over Starfy despite being more easily accessible?

I think each developer that isn't a first-party would work differently on getting their content into Smash, so I wouldn't compare TOSE to Camelot or Treasure, and wouldn't assume which content is more accessible to Sakurai. What we do know is that Starfy, Golden Sun, and Sin & Punishment all showed up in Brawl in some form, so they aren't impossible to get content from.

And as for Sakurai disliking Starfy, I don't think it's ever been proven what his real feelings are towards that series, but I think that like it or not, he knows better than to ignore it, which is why Starfy got in Brawl. Being damageable could just mean that Starfy was further into consideration than other characters, so damaging frames existed for Starfy. Just a theory though. Also Starfy isn't the most powerful protagonist anyways.

I think that if Starfy got a new game (as his series has been dormant for a couple years) he would probably become a contender on the same level as the ones still in Shortie's pool. As it stands now, he could make a great unique character, and has popularity going for him in Japan, and with the push of a new game, I feel his chances would skyrocket. And I would hope (and think) that if Sakurai has a personal bias against him, he would be mature enough to realize that he works very differently from Kirby, and has reasons enough to warrant him as a playable character.

Although I think that he deserves to be on the pool more than some of the characters currently on it, during the next round of cuts I think that if Starfy were on the pool, he should be out by then.

He is much more likely than Lip though.

/ramblecomplete

 

[Cobalsh]

Oh, I don't watch that. And cutting Ness is like cutting Captain Falcon. It won't happen. Also, here's a random moveset I thought up:
Tanooki Mario
Default A: Slaps his tail, with a 35% chance of stunning.
Side A: He charges the foe, slightly hovering over the ground.
Up A: Does the hover jump, the P-bar showing. Does no damage.
Down A: Turns into the statue, and becomes impervious to damage for 10 seconds.
Final Smash: Airship: The Airship comes and shoots Bullet Bills in all directions, eventually dropping the anchor into the middle of the stage, then yanking it out.
And while I'm still here:
Mr. Mime
Default A: Confusion: Sends out a scattered, weak wave that may cause stunning.
Side A: Confuse Ray: Stuns enemies for 5 seconds.
Up A: Thunder Punch: Shoots upward with a punch packed with electricity.
Down A: Barrier: Basically, Fox's Deflector.
Final Smash: Imprison: Make the entire stage a huge cage as he goes behind it. The cage then closes in, and touching the bars will cause 20% damage. Eventually, it gets so small it's impossible to dodge the bars.
Now I'm done.

 

[grizby2]

Then you're a fool that doesn't know God.

anyone who's played earthbound knows your're required to pray to beat the game.
i'll forgive for saying that, and i'll KEEP forgiving you

 

[N3ON]

@Cobalsh & grizby

These guys?

Thems Snifits.

Spoiler

They're much kewler than normal Shy Guys

 

[grizby2]

@Cobalsh & grizby

These guys?

Thems Snifits.

Spoiler

They're much kewler than normal Shy Guys

my bad, im thinking of the cannons from kirby.

 

[Opossum]

Well, here's my case for Muddy Mole to be added to Shortie's roster.


First off, he's a pretty nostalgic retro choice. Secondly, the dig mechanic that he could introduce, as well as other neat traps, could add a lot to the game. He was created by Miyamoto himself. His game, while a bit unknown due to the PokeMania going on in the 90's, was praised by those who played it.

It is also RUMORED that Sakurai liked the idea of him (I have a secondary source saying it; not a primary. Take it with a grain of salt. It correlates with him being mentioned once on his old blog.)

If it is true, it is generally more positive than what he's said about other retros barring Mach Rider.

That pretty much includes all of Sakurai's requirements for playability.


Anyone else wanna agree?

 

[Shorts]

I suppose we should try and finish this game no? Well, let's start now! So we can play again, with a little twist on it.

Okay, here we have our current roster of characters:

At this point, I want people to point out a few they think SHOULD be cut, with REASONING behind it. Just saying "cut x, y, and z" won't count as much. Especially since we're coming down to the wire. Your reasoning is going to be judged by me, so let me tell you right now. "They are boring/will be a clone" are bad reasoning.

You can cut veterans, it's just harder to do. We've had people so far try and cut Toon Link, Ike, and Lucario.

This isn't what Smash is PROBABLY going to look like, it's what WE think it SHOULD look like.

If you see a character not up here that you would like to be, please, write up a small paragraph explaining why they should be added to the roster. If it's good, I'll slap them back on here.

Do not have the VS. mentality This is not Mewtwo vs. Lucario vs. Zoroark, or Krystal vs. Goroh, or even Ghirahim vs. Toon Link. Just tell me who you would like to see cut, and why.

If someone is gunning after your character, defend them. Give me reasons for them to stay. I have a list, containing pros and cons for some characters people have brought up.

Remember, it's ust for fun, so relax. If you be a *****, you might as well not play.

Now, without FURTHER DELAY, here is the current roster:

 

[N3ON]

Well, here's my case for Muddy Mole to be added to Shortie's roster.


First off, he's a pretty nostalgic retro choice. Secondly, the dig mechanic that he could introduce, as well as other neat traps, could add a lot to the game. He was created by Miyamoto himself. His game, while a bit unknown due to the PokeMania going on in the 90's, was praised by those who played it.

It is also RUMORED that Sakurai liked the idea of him (I have a secondary source saying it; not a primary. Take it with a grain of salt. It correlates with him being mentioned once on his old blog.)

If it is true, it is generally more positive than what he's said about other retros barring Mach Rider.

That pretty much includes all of Sakurai's requirements for playability.


Anyone else wanna agree?

I agree with all this, but I would put Muddy in the same boat as Lip in that they both could work well and seem to be liked by Sakurai, but that's all they pretty much have (although Muddy was created by Miyamoto, and that apparently raises his awesome level). Both choices I would like to see (especially if his Dig mechanic is used -- although if he receives more games, Dillon could be real competition), but I feel they are out-prioritized alot, at least for SSB4. Both would make good dark-horse characters though.

edit: I'm ready to defend Isaac. I'd also defend Krystal too, but I really can't up with a good defense for her.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

@cobalsh
the shy guys with cannon mouths are called "shotzo's" i believe.

Shotzos are actually the cannons in the Kirby series. The Shy Guys with cannon mouths are called Snifits. Trust me, I know. I'm the biggest Shy Guy fan there is!

 

[Oasis_S]

I have just eaten a Sinnamon doughnut. I'm feeling extra Strong. TOO STRONG. I MUST TAKE OUT MY STRENGTH ON MUDDY MOLE.

I.

WANNA DISAGREE.

Krystal and Nook too, lemme at 'em.

 

[Opossum]

Well, that just puts the Sin in Sinnamon. But in all seriousness, any reasons in particular?

 

[Lukingordex]

Your guys must be kindding.

Ness is a 64 veteran.
Why Ness shoud be cut?

 

[Shorts]

Oasis just has a thing against Tom Nook, and he drinks too much Chrono Kool Aide, so he has a thing against Krystal too.

Iunno why he has a thing agains Moley.

I hope you realize "Priority" never actually existed... right?

 

[Oasis_S]

Your guys must be kindding.

Ness is a 64 veteran.
Why Ness shoud be cut?

Cut that little butterball.

 

[Holder of the Heel]

His logic is irrefutable.

 

[Mypantisgone]

k so am here
BTW,kuma,i just realised you didn't get i was joking,y'know?
that's like when we were talking about a kid icarus fighting game,and i asked if it would be like smash or more STREET FIGHTER or what and oasis was all like
"KUMA ARE YOU UP TO SOMETHING AGAINcaps"
You're know for wanting things like street fighter,and now you share the same "passion" as diddy,so i was just joking around...
but if smash had combos,no more than two or three,that'd be ok,and simple ones,please.

(And don't cut ness,just his smell)

 

[grizby2]

@ Oasis

gimme a slice

EDIT: @Pants
true, combos would take alot of controll away from players. (something that is normally frowned upon in video games in general.)

 

[Oasis_S]

Homosexuality, my only weakness. I have lost all will to Speak.

 

[Metal Overlord]

Why does that pic of Ness and Lucas up there remind me of Gomar and Shioh

 

[ChronoBound]

Oasis just has a thing against Tom Nook, and he drinks too much Chrono Kool Aide, so he has a thing against Krystal too.

Shortie once again demonizes anyone who has an opinion different than his own on Krystal, however, this is basically ingrained into the type of person he is.

As to Tom Nook, I think when Sakurai flat out says "no" to an Animal Crossing character, that you should not be considering anyone from that series, and when the topic of an AC character did come up, he brought up the Animal Crosser in a joking manner.

 

[BirthNote]

Is that roster game over?

 

[Metal Overlord]

Wasn't gonna get in on this at all, but c'mon now, Chrono

Don't you see Shortie's just baiting you for a response by saying things like that? It seems like you fall for it and reply back every single time

 

[Shorts]

Wasn't gonna get in on this at all, but c'mon now, Chrono

Don't you see Shortie's just baiting you for a response by saying things like that? It seems like you fall for it and reply back every single time

*thumbs over* This guy!

He gets it

I'm actually suddenly busy, so, the game is off for now guys. Sorry!

 

[Lukingordex]

Cut that little butterball.

 

[Mypantisgone]

AC?sakurai spoke about assasin's creed?

i'll post simple combos when i could have the computer,right now i don't know the emoticon for it.

 

[Big-Cat]

As to Tom Nook, I think when Sakurai flat out says "no" to an Animal Crossing character, that you should not be considering anyone from that series, and when the topic of an AC character did come up, he brought up the Animal Crosser in a joking manner.

BS. If I want a character. I want a character. I'm not gonna let what anyone says defer me from my preferences. The point of this roster is for what we WANT, not who's likely.

That being said, I want that tanuki in. Besides, if you're gonna have the villager, you might as well cut the beloved Mii.

 

[ChronoBound]

Wasn't gonna get in on this at all, but c'mon now, Chrono

Don't you see Shortie's just baiting you for a response by saying things like that? It seems like you fall for it and reply back every single time

I have ignored some of his insultive posts, but that did nothing to deter him from being obnoxious.

 

[GiantBreadbug]

@Shorts' Game I shall cut none of those.

How about that?

@Chrono Sakurai had flat out said no to characters that people are currently gunning for hard. Tom Nook for life.

That is all.

 

[Oasis_S]

That being said, I want that tanuki in. Besides, if you're gonna have the villager, you might as well cut the beloved Mii.

You can not be blamed for having such bad taste when there is so much **** coming out of your mouth.

 

[Mypantisgone]

By da way lukin
are you mexican?
do you have mariokart 7

 

[Lukingordex]

By da way lukin
are you mexican?
do you have mariokart 7

No and No...

 

[Cobalsh]

So, no one comments about the Tanooki Mario? I expected from Oasis:
"He would be a clone!!!! Also, kill Ness with an f-ing knife that looks like it belongs in Friday the 13th!!"
Ha. Ignore that. I'm all with Lukin, Shorty, and Poppy, and excellent job on that roster to the middle mentioned. Also, where's Diddy at...

 

[Deleted member]

Mario should get six characters, it's just that it probably won't. The only one who has a serious shot of getting six characters already has one and even talking in slots, Pokemon (who has six characters but four slots) is the only one with a serious shot of reaching that mainly because Pokemon has more potential reps than Mario.

@Oasis_S: Considering that I'm not basing my arguments around chances for this game, I still think it's valid.

I think that representing the 5th gen solely by Pokeballs (and trophies and stuff) would be a fine way to go, but just by judging Lucario's situation for Brawl, I find it very unlikely that the Pokemon Company would not want a rep for the newest gen this time around too. (Even if it's 6th gen over 5th gen). It's quite possible that back in 2001, they didn't feel this strongly about representing their newest gen, but that was a long time ago, and clearly their opinions have changed. I think Sakurai would choose to appease the Pokemon Company and include 1 new character over not being able to work with any of their characters, even if he doesn't feel a newer Pokemon is as "deserving". Although this could totally bypass the 5th gen in general, depending on when the newest gen is released.

And even though I like Zoroark (yes I actually like him), I agree that inclusion solely on the basis of newness and promotion is a rather poor reason, but it doesn't look like it's going to change by SSB4.

I think the reason why Pichu wasn't wanted by the Pokemon Company to be in Melee was because it was a Baby Pokemon and didn't see it as a great choice, so Sakurai had to suggest it. Probably the reason why the Pokemon Company wanted Lucario in Brawl because it is one of the most popular non-1st gen Pokemons ever created and tons of people wanted to see him in Smash (not to mention heavy marketing that no 5th gen Pokemon can claim to have). Looking back on it, Lucario was a sure bet and he deserved to be in (I still find him deserving of a return).

Had Mewtwo not been cut, I would say that Zoroark or a 6th gen Pokemon would be a shoo-in for a newcomer (much like how I would be shocked if King K. Rool did not get in this game). However, with Mewtwo still being promoted and possibly being the most wanted newcomer, I would still say very likely to happen, but a slight chance we may not get one. They could replace Lucario, but I like to think that Lucario is in a much different (and better) situation than Pichu and with Lucario still being used in promotion, I don't think the Pokemon Company wants him gone and I especially doubt Sakurai wants Lucario axed. Really, the only reason why I could see Lucario axed is due to time constraints.

That said, I don't believe promotion is necessarily a bad reason. It did, after all, give us Roy, even if it was for only one game (at least the possibility of returning exist) and it did help Fire Emblem 6's sales. It's also precisely why I feel a 6th gen would be a better choice than Zoroark or Victini; because the Pokemon Company has a perfect opportunity to help promote the upcoming gen. However, I don't believe newness, which is entirely different from promotion, is a good reason to include characters (nor relevancy).

(odd how I both agree and disagree with your post)

And I know I just said Zoroark in my previous post, but I really meant it could be any 5th gen contender, I just think Zoroark is the most likely, Victini or Genesect would make fine characters also.

I'd love to see Genesect in Smash. Bug Pokemons are pretty interesting and I like it's design the best out of the legendaries. If given the choice to add my favorite 5th gen choice, I would pick Genesect.

Victini is cool too and wouldn't mind seeing it in Smash, although I'm no longer the fanboy I was before I went on my hiatus.

@Young Horsetail: Some good points, but I'd like to point out that Starfy is no more eligible to get in just because he's outside of Japan. A better wording would be it increase his shot of getting in.

Also, I don't think Sakurai hates Starfy is the problem so much as he doesn't see potential in Starfy being a playable character. This could have certainly changed since Brawl thanks to an international release, but I think it's just as likely as Sakurai may be ignorant of what Starfy is capable of doing. And if Sakurai doesn't think Starfy should fight, then he isn't getting in.

That said, you did bring up an interesting concept that the series could bring. While I don't really care much for his inclusion, it'd be worth it if that came along with the package. However, still think he should remain cut.

He said he wasn't going to do a Melee 2 or a Brawl 2, but something different. Something different that hopefully involves chains and actual combos.

I think if Sakurai brings chains to the game, he will keep it simple like Marth's and limited to potential newcomers. But that is something I think would be a great thing to expand on in Smash Bros.

@GiantBreadbug: I think the same could have been argued for the 3rd gen during Brawl. It was a very significant entry in the series and changed a lot about the series, not to mention was incredibly popular (as was previous gens and 4th/5th, but point still stands). Yet it didn't get a rep mainly because it's promotion days were over. And trust me, I would have loved to play as Deoxys in Brawl.

Also, I don't think there are anymore necessary additions as all were added in the previous games (ones I would not buy Smash 4 for if said character got cut). If 5th/6th gen are in such dire needs for a playable rep (even though those can be represented in different ways), then I would also argue that Donkey Kong and Metroid also needs newcomers.

I'm wondering why nobody has thought of the Masked Man of Mother 3, He would be an awesome character.

I'd prefer not to see a third Mother rep, but I guess he would be okay.

Stop saying Jr vs Toad. >_< It is Jr. vs Toad vs Paper Mario, get it right people, seriously.

It's Toad vs Jr. vs Paper Mario vs Waluigi.

I guess no one has made the argument for no new Mario characters yet.


Also: A new rule has been added to the betting thread that applies to some people's rosters, check out the thread to see what's changed.

Fixed my change. Hopefully it'll be accepted.

 

[grizby2]

i hate both animal crosser AND tom nook....sigh........ BUT
considering that we'll be able to customize SOMETHING in ssb4, what if that "something" was in fact uploading your own animal crossers's skin into the game? i dont think it would be that hard. so wouldn't the animal crosser be the better choice instead of tom nook? and dont both male and female animal crossers have a deafult look?
if you could put your own skin into the game, it would give players incentive to by whatever new animal crossing game is out at the time of ssb4's release.

well, thats more wood for the fire i guess.

 

[Lukingordex]

Tanooki Mario can be a optional clothing for Mario...

 

[Deleted member]

Anyway, still sticking to my cut decisions:

- Ghirahim
- Bowser Jr.
- Zoroark
- Roy
- Professor Layton
- Slime
- Shulk
- Tom Nook

You can find my reasons in yesterday post (except Bowser Jr.'s which have already been explained by others) and in Zoroark's case, the post I made early this morning.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

With the exception of Bowser Jr. and Zoroark, that cut list sounds about right. Indifferent about Slime though.

 

[Metal Overlord]

Am I the only one who just does not see how Paper Mario is even that serious of a contender for Smash?

 

[Mypantisgone]

Well that makes one mystery resolved,but i've made a stupid error
are you brazilian?