New Smash Bros for WiiU

[BKupa666]

"Guys, I don't think K. Rool will get in SSB4 because he's still owned by Rare!"

 

[Johnknight1]

I think this was the real reason Diddy didn't show up anywhere in Melee, as they were in legal negotiations with Rare at this point. Why Dixie and K. Rool still had trophies though, I don't know. It kinda ruins my theory, lol. Law is hard.

Diddy may have been planned in Melee but cut for all we know. As we all know, a lot of clones were added late in Melee. If it was because say the idea of adding Diddy Kong was cancelled, that would make a lot of sense.

Still, it is an unprovable theory.

I wish Sakurai would tell us every character he considered for each smash bros game, and how much they were considered, planned, or developed. That way we could "figure it all out" only to be mind gamed again by a bunch of characters not considered in previous smash bros games.

 

[~automatic]

Does anyone know who owns the rights to Eternal darkness? Silicon Knights can't make another game because they've Nintendo owns the franchise but Nintendo hasn't done anything with it because one of the members of SK is claiming it.

 

[yani]

I think this was the real reason Diddy didn't show up anywhere in Melee, as they were in legal negotiations with Rare at this point. Why Dixie and K. Rool still had trophies though, I don't know. It kinda ruins my theory, lol. Law is hard.

I think Diddy (as well as Banjo) were planned to be playable, but scrapped due to the buyout. During that process, his trophy was removed as well. The mine was from Perfect Dark, and the Cloaking Device was from GoldenEye, so it isn't unlikely that Banjo was planned to be playable too. Just my theory though.

 

[N3ON]

I still wish we would've gotten Banjo and Conker (and other Rare characters) trophies in Melee, like was originally planned. Technically they were still owned by Nintendo at this point.

http://www.nintendoeverything.com/?p=24201 (Old news)

 

[Johnknight1]

@ yani
I doubt Conker or Banjo were planned as playable characters in Melee. Maybe considered, but probably not planned.

@ ~automatic
Nintendo owns the rights to the series then, unless they sold the rights. Many companies own rights to IPs that they don't use.

@ BKupa666
That's my logic on Mario. I mean, he's still owned by Nintendo. How can he ever be in Smash=???

Spoiler

He's too fat, lulz

 

[N3ON]

I would've LOVED playing as Banjo in Melee! OMG.
Thinking about it makes me sad though...

@automatic
I've read that Nintendo owns the IP, though I can't find a source right now. The closest I can find is this.
http://nintendoeverything.com/85350...sequel-says-nintendo-is-their-silent-partner/
Still an interesting read.

edit: Actually re-reading it, if Nintendo renewed the trademark, it would seem that Nintendo owns the IP.

 

[yani]

@ yani
I doubt Conker or Banjo were planned as playable characters in Melee. Maybe considered, but probably not planned.

Definitely not Conker, but Diddy Kong and the new Banjo we're Rare's mascots, and had a great history with Ninty. Banjo even scored higher than Diddy Kong on the Melee poll, so I believe he was definitely planned. Sadly we'll never know though

 

[Deleted member]

@SmashChu: I can't prove anything, but had he looked at just Japan, there's no guarantees that Sonic would have been far ahead enough in 1st to get in due to third-party status. Massive western popularity probably sealed the deal that the team had to get Sonic in.

 

[N3ON]

If he had looked just at Japan, he would've seen that Sonic was still #1 on his poll.

 

[Deleted member]

No, I'm pretty sure that Dedede would have been the one that would've been added instead of the 6 clones in Melee.

@SSBF: You are still forgetting that Sonic got first place on his poll; a JAPANESE poll.
Sure, most of his support could've been from the West (which is what Sakurai said), but not all of it. Majority of Japanese fans wanted him too.

 

[Big-Cat]

I think Diddy (as well as Banjo) were planned to be playable, but scrapped due to the buyout. During that process, his trophy was removed as well. The mine was from Perfect Dark, and the Cloaking Device was from GoldenEye, so it isn't unlikely that Banjo was planned to be playable too. Just my theory though.

But you had Dixie and K. Rool trophies there.

Who knows the reason why, but I don't think second party companies are skipped out on. The thing with Rare was that they were in a "limbo" state as they were looking for someone to buy them. IIRC, Diddy used to have the Rare logo on his hat so just having the Rare logo might've caused complications later on after the potential buyout. Regardless, I don't think second parties and the rights wouldn't be as great of a concern if they weren't in the same situation as Rare.

I still lament that we will probably never see Banjo and Kazooie in Smash Bros. And it makes me sad that because MS didn't know what they were doing when they acquired Rare, Rare is now a shell of its former self. When a sequel to the highly underrated Kameo is canceled to work on Kinect Sports, you know something's wrong.

 

[Johnknight1]

@ Golden
Again, Sonic was not as huge in Japan as he was elsewhere. He was hands down #1 in the Japanese poll, but in a European, North American, South American, or Australian poll, he would have had 50 times the number of votes as the next most voted for character.

 

[Deleted member]

@ Golden
Again, Sonic was not as huge in Japan as he was elsewhere. He was hands down #1 in the Japanese poll, but in a European, North American, South American, or Australian poll, he would have had 50 times the number of votes as the next most voted for character.

That doesn't matter. The point is, even without looking outside Japan, Sakurai would've still seen that Sonic was popular and very much wanted, and we would've likely had him anyway.

 

[N3ON]

I still lament that we will probably never see Banjo and Kazooie in Smash Bros. And it makes me sad that because MS didn't know what they were doing when they acquired Rare, Rare is now a shell of its former self. When a sequel to the highly underrated Kameo is canceled to work on Kinect Sports, you know something's wrong.

Who knows, if we piss and moan loud enough, maybe they could appear on the 3DS version. Most likely not though.
edit: About the same likelihood of Master Chief appearing on the 3DS Smash,

@John
That would further solidify his position to get it, but the fact remains that the Japanese smashers wanted him enough for him to get #1 on their poll. So I wouldn't count him as a character that got in due to western popularity. (Not just western popularity)

 

[Johnknight1]

@ Golden
I know, just thought I'd point it out. Plus a lot of Japanese smash fans who voted on that poll recommended a lot of anime and manga characters. Heck on the Melee poll people voted for James Bond (although that was because of Golden Eye) and friggen Godzilla!

Basically outside of Japan, comparing the desire for Sonic to be playable in Brawl to the popularity of other characters being playable in Brawl is like comparing the votes of the guy selected President of the United States to the votes for Ralph Nadar!

 

[Deleted member]

Now, if someone ELSE were to take the #1 spot on the poll, they would've been in instead of Sonic. Guaranteed.
EDIT: Except for characters that didn't meet Sakurai's criteria for 3rd Parties.

EDIT2: I actually wouldn't mind seeing Godzilla, to tell you the truth. I'm a big G fan. Though I admit that Geno, Krystal, and Geno's and Krystal's lovechild would get in before him.
If it was between an anime character like Goku, Luffy, Naruto, etc. vs. Godzilla for Smash, I'd root for Godzilla.
I think Blue Oyster Cult summed it up nicely: "Go Go Godzilla!"

 

[N3ON]

Makes me wonder who will be the #1 spot for the SSB4 poll, if Sakurai has one. It's basically a free pass into Smash.

 

[Johnknight1]

@ Golden
It depends who it was. If it was say Diddy Kong, King Dedede, Lucario, or some uber popular 3rd party character, agreed (maybe).

Dr. Mario for Smash.

Spoiler

This is one of the greatest faces photos in Koridi!

@ Chaos
My bet is either K. Rool, Dixie Kong, or most likely Mega Man. That is discounting the Melee cuts character, of course. If we're counting those, Mewtwo wins, hands down.

 

[Deleted member]

That doesn't matter. The point is, even without looking outside Japan, Sakurai would've still seen that Sonic was popular and very much wanted, and we would've likely had him anyway.

Likely =/= guarantee.

That's my point. Could Sonic have gotten in just by Japanese vote? Seems likely, but due to Sonic being third-party, Sakurai may have still assumed this was not enough and wanted to see how he fared outside of Japan. Meaning there's a chance that the West may have been the main reason why he is in Brawl, not Japan. That's all I'm saying.

@ChaosKid: Probably King K. Rool if we're talking about newcomers in Japan and worldwide with no Melee vets.

Roy if the poll is exclusively Japanese and includes vets. Probably Mewtwo if we are going worldwide and include vets.

Anyway, heading to bed, got school tomorrow.

 

[N3ON]

@ Chaos
My bet is either K. Rool, Dixie Kong, or most likely Mega Man (discounting the Melee cuts, of course)

True, true. It won't be a big surprise, just like it wasn't when Sonic was #1. I think the only surprise would be if it wasn't one of those three characters.

I wonder how much the poll would differ if it was worldwide though.

 

[~automatic]

Nintendo owns the rights to the series then, unless they sold the rights. Many companies own rights to IPs that they don't use.

I've read that Nintendo owns the IP, though I can't find a source right now. The closest I can find is this.
http://nintendoeverything.com/85350...sequel-says-nintendo-is-their-silent-partner/
Still an interesting read.

Cool beans. thanks for the info. It's a shame ED wasn't as commercially successful as other horror/suspense games of the time. Pious or Alex would make interesting characters.

 

[Johnknight1]

@ automatic
Yeah, Eternal Darkness is a good game. I borrowed it from a friend and I got pretty far in it, but I never remember to borrow it again and beat it.

True, true. It won't be a big surprise, just like it wasn't when Sonic was #1. I think the only surprise would be if it wasn't one of those three characters.

The only other characters I could see coming close would be from spam voters. That or maybe the likes of Waluigi, Ridley, Zoroark, Victini, or another massively popular 3rd party character that isn't Mega Man.

I wonder how much the poll would differ if it was worldwide though.

Probably a lot more Dixie Kong, K. Rool, and Little Mac votes if the poll is done worldwide. Maybe some more Isaac votes, too.

 

[Deleted member]

Likely =/= guarantee.

That's my point. Could Sonic have gotten in just by Japanese vote? Seems likely, but due to Sonic being third-party, Sakurai may have still assumed this was not enough and wanted to see how he fared outside of Japan. Meaning there's a chance that the West may have been the main reason why he is in Brawl, not Japan. That's all I'm saying.

@ChaosKid: Probably King K. Rool if we're talking about newcomers in Japan or a worldwide poll.

Roy if the poll is exclusively Japanese.

Anyway, heading to bed, got school tomorrow.

A chance =/= guarantee.
After all, Sakurai DID say that there would've been 1-2 3rd Parties other than Snake, and if he saw that Sonic was voted #1 Newcomer for Brawl, wouldn't it make sense to make Sonic that other 3rd Party? (Which is what happened, anyway...)

But anywho, all of this is meaningless because Godzilla for SSB4!
Though, hypothetically, which version of G-man would it be? Most likely the Final Wars version, as it was his latest movie.

Yeah, that'd be badass...

 

[N3ON]

@John
Agreed. I just hope that the results are eventually shown, unlikely as it may be. It would help with my predictions for SSB5

@automatic
Also agreed. I really hope the "most requested IP" SK is working on is a sequel to ED. Although it could also be a sequel to Too Human.

 

[Lukingordex]

I am playing Mother 3 again and I remembered how this game is extremely good...

 

[~automatic]

@automatic
Also agreed. I really hope the "most requested IP" SK is working on is a sequel to ED. Although it could also be a sequel to Too Human.

Eeeeew, Too Human was a piece of ****, lmao.

 

[Johnknight1]

@ Luk
MOTHER 3 is amazing. DEM COMBOS!!!

@John
Agreed. I just hope that the results are eventually shown, unlikely as it may be. It would help with my predictions for SSB5

And then instead of throwing a fastball, a change up, or a slider, Sakurai throws all knuckle balls, fork balls, and screw balls!

@ ~automatic
Eowww, Too Human was a terrible God of War clone!

 

[yani]

Cancelled Rare Games:
Donkey Kong Racing
Diddy Kong Pilot (became Banjo Pilot)
Donkey Kong Coconut Crackers (became Mr. Pants)
Banjo X
Banjo Kazoomie
Conker's Other Bad Day
Perfect Dark Core
Kameo 2
Sabreman Stampede

I might be missing one or two

 

[Deleted member]

@ Luk
MOTHER 3 is amazing. DEM COMBOS!!!

And then instead of throwing a fastball, a change up, or a slider, Sakurai throws all knuckle balls, fork balls, and screw balls!

@ ~automatic
Eowww, Too Human was a terrible God of War clone!

And then Sakurai decides to cave in to Japan's demands for Godzilla and add him in.

 

[Johnknight1]

@ Golden
And then Godzilla is so big compared to the Japanese screens, his toenails barely fit on the screen.

 

[N3ON]

Cancelled Rare Games:
Donkey Kong Racing
Diddy Kong Pilot (became Banjo Pilot)
Donkey Kong Coconut Crackers (became Mr. Pants)
Banjo X
Banjo Kazoomie
Conker's Other Bad Day
Perfect Dark Core
Kameo 2
Sabreman Stampede

I might be missing one or two

This makes me
1) Really miss Rare's glory days and future potential with Nintendo
2) Super pissed at microsoft, lol.

I'm gonna go cry and play with my Banjo toy from Diddy Kong Racing.

I'm out!

 

[Deleted member]

@ Golden
And then Godzilla is so big compared to the Japanese screens, his toenails barely fit on the screen.

And Ridley ends up even bigger.

EDIT: Ridley should be in a Godzilla film!

 

[Johnknight1]

@ Chaos
We should call that list the "depressing list of potentially great memories."

@ Golden
Ridley is so big in Smash, the thought of him makes the brain of the Japanese person thinking about Ridley in Smash have a 50% larger head and brain.

Am I the only one who just does not see how Paper Mario is even that serious of a contender for Smash?

Nope. I've been here all along. I'm riding this train until it inevitably crashes and blows up along with all of its' passengers.

 

[Deleted member]

Wait, I thought you had a "gut feeling" that Paper Mario was going to be in?
Now you're agreeing that he isn't that serious of a contender?

 

[yani]

@Chaos I had Banjo, Diddy, and Wizpig

 

[Johnknight1]

Wait, I thought you had a "gut feeling" that Paper Mario was going to be in?
Now you're agreeing that he isn't that serious of a contender?

Yep. Part of this theory is that Sakurai likes weapon-wielding characters, specifically those with hammers. Think about it.

Melee: Adds Ice Climbers.
Brawl: Adds King Dedede.

I imagine Paper Mario using his Hammer for a lot of his moves, specifically his tilts, smash attacks, and aerials. Plus Sakurai also likes retro characters, and Paper Mario seems to play "like a retro character." Paper Mario would kind of be like a mix of Mr. Game and Watch and ROB-movement wise (or at least how I visualize it).

Plus to be quite frank, I don't think Toad and Bowser Jr. have that good of chances.

 

[Deleted member]

You're...you're trolling me, right? About the "hammer theory".

Cuz with your hammer theory, and Shortie's "love interest" theory, that means Amy Rose is going to be in for sure.

 

[N3ON]

@Chaos I had Banjo, Diddy, and Wizpig

Me too, as well as the Mario Kart 64 toys, but Banjo's the only one that fills me with regret and sorrow. I miss Rare...

 

[Johnknight1]

@ The Golden Arch
Not entirely.

But no, I just notice a lot of say "similarities" to Paper Mario with a lot of unexpected newcomers.




Also on a side note, WTF? How did Olimar become the 2nd best character in Brawl all of a sudden=???