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New Smash Bros for WiiU

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Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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Nah, Brawl wasn't needlessly easy. It still took quite a lot of skill. It was easier than Melee, sure, but skillless? Bleh.

I didn't like that it was dumbed down a bit, but it wasn't terrible.

@GY: I love Waluigi, but I actually don't like that Sakurai considered him as a fighter before Toad. I mean, considering he had full movement and an attack... plus he was in the Fighter-based Assist Trophies(some were confirmed for characters he thought of putting in but decided against it).
 

Big-Cat

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That would suck fully committing to a direction when you jump. At least in Smash.
That's why I said it probably wouldn't work in Smash. You'd have to rework the aerial system as a result. What could be done is to hold the input for a specified amount of time to change it This way, you can jump back and FAir while keeping momentum so long as you don't hold forward on the stick.

Oh, and every other fighter makes you commit to an aerial and any jump unless otherwise specified.
 

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BTW, Tingle got a cameo in Skyward Sword... Nintendo didn't forget about Tingle.
You got proof=??? (looks it up) Okay, there was a Tingle doll in Skyward Sword. If that is your best bet at a character being playable, we can throw Skull Kid back in this race again (please don't literally do that).

Literally Tingle is just a stupid joke (I think making fun of Koji Kondo; Tingle is meant to look like him), and even his creator (Shigeru Miyamoto) hates him. Nobody likes him. Some cute little video on Youtube won't convince me otherwise.

I had a pre-Brawl character prediction video (it got the most views with about 150,000), and nearly all of the comments about Tingle as a character were about how awful of a character he is, and how he should never be considered to be a playable character in the smash bros series. Anyone who mentioned they liked Tingle was immediately shot down by people who avidly and outwardly hate him. Literally if Tingle were in smash bros as a playable character, many Zelda and Nintendo fans would be turned off, indifferent, and disinterested in the game and the character. That is the last thing you EVER want to do with a video game or anything marketable.

Pichu, on the other hand, had the cuteness factor, was very popular, was known by nearly everyone in the Smash Bros target age group, and if Pichu had an original moveset in Melee or didn't totally suck in Melee, would probably be well-liked by most smash bros players and fans.
 
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You got proof=??? Literally Tingle is just a stupid joke, and even his creator (Shigeru Miyamoto) hates him. Nobody likes him. Some cute little video on Youtube won't convince me otherwise.

I had a pre-Brawl character prediction video (it got the most views with about 150,000), and nearly all of the comments about Tingle as a character were about how awful of a character he is, and how he should never be considered to be a playable character in the smash bros series. Anyone who mentioned they liked Tingle was immediately shot down by people who avidly and outwardly hate him. Literally if Tingle were in smash bros as a playable character, many Zelda and Nintendo fans would be turned off, indifferent, and disinterested in the game and the character. That is the last thing you EVER want to do with a video game or anything marketable.

Pichu, on the other hand, had the cuteness factor, was very popular, was known by nearly everyone in the Smash Bros target age group, and if Pichu had an original moveset in Melee or didn't totally suck in Melee, would probably be well-liked by most smash bros players and fans.
You are forgetting that Tingle only is hated in America. He's liked in Europe and Japan (why else would he have his own games?)

Also, http://www.zeldac.com/2011/11/tingle-confirmed-in-skyward-sword/
 

Disfunkshunal

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Lol John why not just respond in one post rather than over many.

SSBF is a senior, class of 2012 FTW

:phone:
 

ChronoBound

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I was looking at Nintendo's arcade catalog to search for obscure characters that could serve as Smash 4's Mr. Game & Watch/ROB, but I came up empty handed. The only character that could be interesting is Sheriff, who I believe is Nintendo's first video game character (there were a few other video games they made before Sheriff, but I think Sheriff was the first character driven one).

While I think an old Western sheriff would be interesting, a huge part to a Western sheriff is using a revolver gun, and since Sakurai does not like the idea of realistic guns in Smash Bros. I don't think we will get him.
 

Conviction

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That's why I said it probably wouldn't work in Smash. You'd have to rework the aerial system as a result. What could be done is to hold the input for a specified amount of time to change it This way, you can jump back and FAir while keeping momentum so long as you don't hold forward on the stick.

Oh, and every other fighter makes you commit to an aerial and any jump unless otherwise specified.
I know.

Also nah, Class of 2013, we be coming.
 

Big-Cat

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lol as you're graduating high school, I'll be graduating from college.

Unless I double major in the end.
 

ETWIST51294

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Nah, Brawl wasn't needlessly easy. It still took quite a lot of skill. It was easier than Melee, sure, but skillless? Bleh.

I didn't like that it was dumbed down a bit, but it wasn't terrible.
Brawl was by-far the EASIEST fg I have ever played in my life. I even quit for 6 months, picked it back up and learned every new tech in 4 hours, played for a month, got bored of the slow, comboless, campy, passive play and quit again.

I swear if Olimar wasn't in Brawl I would sold that **** years ago.

But yeah, I play a lot of fighters, ask Kuma. Brawl is definitely overly easy to anyone who has execution. Compared to Melee? OH GODDDD that is just a ridiculous change.
 

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You are forgetting that Tingle only is hated in America. He's liked in Europe and Japan (why else would he have his own games?)
From what I gather, opinion towards him is neutral to him in those countries. Plus his games hardly sold at all. I also think a lot of us hate him because of those dumb fetch quests at the end of the Wind Waker that Tingle made us do. That and the fact that he is ugly, and we as humans hate everything ugly. Add in that a lot of what he does is copied off others (the dumb Balloon Fight thing, which, like Alice, is robbing the Balloon Fighter of a game), which we translate as unoriginal.
I was looking at Nintendo's arcade catalog to search for obscure characters that could serve as Smash 4's Mr. Game & Watch/ROB, but I came up empty handed. The only character that could be interesting is Sheriff, who I believe is Nintendo's first video game character (there were a few other video games they made before Sheriff, but I think Sheriff was the first character driven one).

While I think an old Western sheriff would be interesting, a huge part to a Western sheriff is using a revolver gun, and since Sakurai does not like the idea of realistic guns in Smash Bros. I don't think we will get him.
Yeah, pretty much this. I think Little Mac is the only "true" "retro" character left, however, he is also a modern character now thanks to his recent Punch-Out game. We will probably get more future Punch-Out!! titles, too.
 

Big-Cat

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The above mother****er (ETWISTS) plays fighting games, and has been before I really got into them (is an '09-er).

BTW, ETWISTS, Mewtwo + Light Screen = Urien. Your thoughts?
 

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The only arguments I've seen are that he wasn't in any platforming title, which honestly doesn't matter, and that he's generally disliked (but nowhere near has a hatebase like Tingle does), which actually is a legitmate argument.
People try to argue over whether he "deserves" the spot more than others, which, honestly, he doesn't, but deservingness doesn't apply.
This sums it up nicely. "Deservingness" is also not a word. :bee: Plus no character in entitled to be a game made up of mostly and nearly entirely of Nintendo characters with the label (and I'm paraphrasing) "The Battle of Nintendo's Greatest All-Stars!" That is, except Nintendo's top of the line, 1 A, top tier of the top tier, well-known and well-loved "All Stars."
However, when it all comes down to it, Waluigi doesn't have any worse of a chance than Bowser Jr. or Paper Mario.
And even while Toad is most deserving, Sakurai had stated that he couldn't picture Toad as a fighter.
I dunno, Bowser Jr. is the main villain in Sunshine, and had big roles in several recent canon Mario games. Plus Paper Mario has his own series, which has 3 (soon to be 4) very successful and popular games. Plus I still got a "gut" feeling Paper Mario is going to be playable. And trust me, my "gut" is nearly always right. As for Toad, he is all wild card all the time.

At the very least, it is a debatable subject that isn't etched in stone (like Mario being the main character of the Mario franchise).
 

ETWIST51294

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The above mother****er (ETWISTS) plays fighting games, and has been before I really got into them (is an '09-er).

BTW, ETWISTS, Mewtwo + Light Screen = Urien. Your thoughts?
That would be awesome depending on how it's implemented. Like, how many screens could be out at once? I think they should be 2 at maximum, and one smash attack should break them (cause you know, light screen doesn't do anything to physical moves). Maybe have refect and light screen with different properties?
 

Big-Cat

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That would be awesome depending on how it's implemented. Like, how many screens could be out at once? I think they should be 2 at maximum, and one smash attack should break them (cause you know, light screen doesn't do anything to physical moves). Maybe have refect and light screen with different properties?
IDK, I want Mewtwo to get something of a revamp. Make Confusion more like Athena's Super Psychic Throw (maybe rename it Psychic?) and replace the craptacular Disable with Light Screen.
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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Brawl was by-far the EASIEST fg I have ever played in my life. I even quit for 6 months, picked it back up and learned every new tech in 4 hours, played for a month, got bored of the slow, comboless, campy, passive play and quit again.

I swear if Olimar wasn't in Brawl I would sold that **** years ago.

But yeah, I play a lot of fighters, ask Kuma. Brawl is definitely overly easy to anyone who has execution. Compared to Melee? OH GODDDD that is just a ridiculous change.
All 3 games are extremely easy to play as is. That's... how they're designed.

And the lack of combos due to hitstun is definitely a problem.

@GY: He's not even that hated in America anymore. People are severely annoyed that we didn't get his games in the US.
 

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@John Sonic & Sega Allstar Racing is an awesome racer. It isn't Mario Kart, but it's definitely the next best thing.

:phone:
 

Minato

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I always see where you coming from, but then you have my viewpoint. I don't like when things are needlessly easy. Then the games gets boring really fast. Like Brawl.
I like simplicity done right though. SF2 did that perfectly, imo. Stuff like not being able to special cancel from chains is kinda dumb. But yeah, I love the complex side also. Guess I'm kinda picky on whether it's done right or not. If it's simple, it's fine. Just as long as the simplicity didn't remove options.
I swear if Olimar wasn't in Brawl I would sold that **** years ago.
Agreed.
Except I never bought Brawl

And yes, I got lost on SWF and somehow ended up here.
 

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By comparison, MILLIONS openly supported Sonic in Brawl. Heck, MILLIONS would support Mewtwo or Mega Man for Smash Wii U and 3DS. It's like comparing a fairly large nation of fans to a cute little village size support you just listed. Or, in other words, the New York Yankees and one of their AA minor league teams.
You make it sound like only the characters who had millions of supporters get in Smash. I don't think millions of fans were clamoring for Ice Climbers (probably because almost everyone never heard of them), Mr. Game & Watch (probably because almost nobody cared about Game & Watch games), Roy (because he didn't exist yet), Dr. Mario and Young Link (probably because most people hadn't thought about a second Mario/Link in Smash) to be in Melee nor were they clamoring for Pokemon Trainer (I remember how many people were dead against this), Zero Suit Samus (all attention were on Ridley), Lucas (because they felt threatened that he could replace Ness), R.O.B. (probably because people thought he can't fight), Snake (most likely because most people believed that no third party characters were going to be in Smash), Toon Link (all attention were on Midna and people believed that his cel-shaded graphics would clash with the realistic Twilight Princess characters), Wolf (all attention were on Krystal) to be in Brawl.

I am pretty positive Smash 4 will have some surprises in store for us. My list of newcomers? Half of them would make us happy because they are some of the most-wanted and popular characters... but the others would surprise/shock/anger/disappoint us, at least at first. I believe we are going to experience emotions like surprise/shock/anger/disappointment, not just joy, when it comes to possible newcomers and the final SSB4 roster. By the end of the day, there will be something for everyone, not just the ones who only expect the popular/most-wanted characters.

@ ChronoBound

You want a Western character? Well, what about Dillon from The Rolling Western? He would be a lot more interesting than Sheriff and Wild Gunman. Duck Hunt Dog would be the ideal character to serve as Smash 4's Mr. Game & Watch/R.O.B. The Dog would represent the whole Light Gun series (including Duck Hunt, Wild Gunman, Hogan's Alley, Gumshoe, etc.) just like the Ice Climbers represented the early Famicom games (including Ice Climber, Balloon Fight, Clu Clu Land, Excitebike, Urban Champion, etc.). The Dog would represent the NES Zapper peripheral just like R.O.B. represented itself as a NES peripheral and Mr. Game & Watch represented the whole Game & Watch line.
 
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This sums it up nicely. "Deservingness" is also not a word. :bee: Plus no character in entitled to be a game made up of mostly and nearly entirely of Nintendo characters with the label (and I'm paraphrasing) "The Battle of Nintendo's Greatest All-Stars!" That is, except Nintendo's top of the line, 1 A, top tier of the top tier, well-known and well-loved "All Stars."

I dunno, Bowser Jr. is the main villain in Sunshine, and had big roles in several recent canon Mario games. Plus Paper Mario has his own series, which has 3 (soon to be 4) very successful and popular games. Plus I still got a "gut" feeling Paper Mario is going to be playable. And trust me, my "gut" is nearly always right.
We've already got a crapton of characters that would not be considered "top tier" Nintendo characters, including non-Nintendo characters.
What would make Waluigi any different?

Again, "deservingness", real word or not, doesn't apply. It doesn't matter that Jr. was the villain in Sunshine (adventure title) compared to Waluigi being the villain in DDR: Mario Mix (spin-off title).
It doesn't matter that Jr. has been in multiple "mainstream" Mario games while Waluigi has not.
If all that really mattered, Waluigi wouldn't even be allowed to be an Assist Trophy, and be relegated to just a trophy. But we both know that isn't the case.
I hate to pull the "Assist Trophy" argument, but at least being an AT puts Waluigi's foot in the door in who Sakurai would consider for a new Mario rep.

Also, with Paper Mario, the fact that he's Mario makes him unlikely, considering that Sakurai appears that he'd rather use Dr. Mario again instead of Paper Mario, and 3 Marios would be overkill, unique or not.

Please know that I'm not trying to argue that Waluigi is the best choice for a new character, just that people need to realize that Waluigi isn't unlikely because they don't like him.
 

Big-Cat

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I like simplicity done right though. SF2 did that perfectly, imo. Stuff like not being able to special cancel from chains is kinda dumb. But yeah, I love the complex side also. Guess I'm kinda picky on whether it's done right or not. If it's simple, it's fine. Just as long as the simplicity didn't remove options.
Assuming we're talking about SFxTK here, I think it's reasonable that they did that. Imagine free damage starting from a LP doing Cross Rush > Ground Bounce > Cross Rush > Ground Bounce > Cross Rush > Launcher. Game might've gotten stupid fairly quickly, but we're talking about a game no one has fully explored either. That, and it would probably not fare well for the footsies game.

And that's how I like my simplicty. This is what I meant by efficiency earlier. Easy to do without taking away the options of high execution.
 

ETWIST51294

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All 3 games are extremely easy to play as is. That's... how they're designed.

And the lack of combos due to hitstun is definitely a problem.

@GY: He's not even that hated in America anymore. People are severely annoyed that we didn't get his games in the US.
Melee's definitely not easy.. unless you're talking about causal play. It's acually really execution heavy.

I like simplicity done right though. SF2 did that perfectly, imo. Stuff like not being able to special cancel from chains is kinda dumb. But yeah, I love the complex side also. Guess I'm kinda picky on whether it's done right or not. If it's simple, it's fine. Just as long as the simplicity didn't remove options.

Agreed.
Except I never bought Brawl

And yes, I got lost on SWF and somehow ended up here.
And yeah I'm the same way. ST (and HF) were like godsends. They weren't hard but they were still fun.

And you should post here more, cause my FG thread is full of anime fighters and the Marvel 3 thread is full of stupid people.
 

Big-Cat

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Bad news for you ETWIST, this thread is also full of stupid people. This is also SmashChu's habitat here.

@Minato
I forgot to ask this earlier, but how exactly was ST perfect in its execution?
 
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Not sure if this has been brought up, but what do people here think about Dillon being in Sm4sh?
 

Big-Cat

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@E
We'll take him on. TOGETHER! Shall we go for Tekken Tag teaming or get Iblis in on this for an MvC team?

@GY
He seems cool. Want to see what he can bring before my final decision. Seems like he could be Sonic-esque.
 

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Not sure if this has been brought up, but what do people here think about Dillon being in Sm4sh?
I am neutral towards Dillon. He seems interesting but I am not clamoring for him to get in Smash 4. I am more interested in other Nintendo characters first before Dillon, you see.
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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Melee's definitely not easy.. unless you're talking about causal play. It's acually really execution heavy.
No, it's still a very easy fighter. Technical Fighters like Soul Calibur are a lot harder to pull off. It's not SUPER easy, but it's not that hard. Wavedashing isn't even that difficult with some practice. The techniques are a little hard, but nothing spectacular. It's a very deep game, but you're overestimating the challenge levels of it quite a bit.

Brawl's not that much easier either. It's just a little less harder, that's all.
 

Minato

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Assuming we're talking about SFxTK here, I think it's reasonable that they did that. Imagine free damage starting from a LP doing Cross Rush > Ground Bounce > Cross Rush > Ground Bounce > Cross Rush > Launcher. Game might've gotten stupid fairly quickly, but we're talking about a game no one has fully explored either. That, and it would probably not fare well for the footsies game.
I'm fine yet mixed on how SFXT handled it. I don't mind not being able to special cancel out of chains in that game since that's how it was in Darkstalkers. Since everything in that game chains, it makes sense not being able to (unless it's an EX). It's odd that you can't special cancel out of moves that used to be target combos in previous games since they're now chains, but I'll adapt. It just removed the uniqueness that some (Ibuki) characters had.

In SF4, however, it was pointless, imo. Even 3S allowed you to special cancel out of rapid fire-capable moves.
For a game that was meant to be simple, it was a little odd.
And you should post here more, cause my FG thread is full of anime fighters and the Marvel 3 thread is full of stupid people.
The Marvel thread is so awful. Glad I don't go there anymore. It basically devolved into Zero is broken, people play campy, and anchor Spiderman is godlike.
 

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I'm fine yet mixed on how SFXT handled it. I don't mind not being able to special cancel out of chains in that game since that's how it was in Darkstalkers. Since everything in that game chains, it makes sense not being able to (unless it's an EX). It's odd that you can't special cancel out of moves that used to be target combos in previous games since they're now chains, but I'll adapt. It just removed the uniqueness that some (Ibuki) characters had.

In SF4, however, it was pointless, imo. Even 3S allowed you to special cancel out of rapid fire-capable moves.
For a game that was meant to be simple, it was a little odd.

The Marvel thread is so awful. Glad I don't go there anymore. It basically devolved into Zero is broken, people play campy, and anchor Spiderman is godlike.
Actually, I think Target Combos/Strings still allow for special canceling. Any other chaining is out the question it seems, and that raises my concerns about how strong the Tekken cast may be as a result.
 

ETWIST51294

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No, it's still a very easy fighter. Technical Fighters like Soul Calibur are a lot harder to pull off. It's not SUPER easy, but it's not that hard. Wavedashing isn't even that difficult with some practice. The techniques are a little hard, but nothing spectacular. It's a very deep game, but you're overestimating the challenge levels of it quite a bit.

Brawl's not that much easier either. It's just a little less harder, that's all.
Soul Caliburs technical now? Oh wait, no it isn't.. Melee is much harder than SC. I play both. I've already learned how to play melee. I have every tech down already and had them down since 08. Have you ever done shine nair pressure with fox? That's harder than everything in SC, including Setsukas just frames in SCIV.

The only fgs I know are harder are MvC2, GGAC, and VF.

Marvel 2, Guilty Gear, and Virtua Fighter if you didn't know.
 

Shorts

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This is actually pretty interesting. Roy is consistently getting similar amounts of votes, and is probably slowly rising because of people who's favorite smash bros game was Melee who liked Roy in that game. I think Roy's popularity until he is confirmed or unconfirmed in the next smash bros game is going to remain pretty constant.
Roy has probably hit his peak, myabe rising a few more spots, but he's still pretty high up there.

9. Medusa (172)
10. Dixie Kong (166)
11. Samurai Goroh (150)
12. Palutena (146)
13. Bandana Dee (145)
14. Roy (142)

To frank, I can see him hitting 11, but I don't know if he will pass up Dixie Kong, or Medusa. And he definitely won't pass up the top eight. I could see Bandana Dee losing steam later this year, and maybe Palutena and Medusa lose a fanbase on the off chance KIU blows. And I could see him MAYBE passing up Goroh. I don't think it's likely he will get much higher though.

The top eight are pretty much set in stone, and Medusa and Dixie have consistantly been 9 & 10, the rest are slightly more fluid.
 

Minato

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@Minato
I forgot to ask this earlier, but how exactly was ST perfect in its execution?
Damage consisted from good reads/jump ins, pokes, and chip. It was a game that wasn't about high damaging long combos into knockdown.
The game had links, but those weren't always your go to BnBs. Basically, the execution wasn't about whether you could do the combo or not, but rather if you could execute your input in time.

Plus the game had option selects that made sense and weren't too out there (besides O. T Hawk).

Actually, I think Target Combos/Strings still allow for special canceling. Any other chaining is out the question it seems, and that raises my concerns about how strong the Tekken cast may be as a result.
Not from the build I played. Ibuki's TCs made me go straight into launcher if I did HP/HK and it gave me nothing if it was a light or a middle button.
 

Big-Cat

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We'll have to wait and see then what they did in the final build. I was seeing that one build didn't allow her LMHP combo to go into launcher.
 

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Soul Caliburs technical now? Oh wait, no it isn't.. Melee is much harder than SC. I play both. I've already learned how to play melee. I have every tech down already and had them down since 08. Have you ever done shine nair pressure with fox? That's harder than everything in SC, including Setsukas just frames in SCIV.
Soul Calibur requires extreme technical timing. It's based off of technical timing. Smash in itself is not. You don't have specific combos, taking out the true tech. They're both technical fighters. I don't know why definition you're using, but technical fighters have dial-in combos as is. Melee's not that technical in the first place, and it's not hard a game to play and get good at either. It's extremely accessible as is.

The only fgs I know are harder are MvC2, GGAC, and VF.

Marvel 2, Guilty Gear, and Virtua Fighter if you didn't know.
So, more technical fighters. Those all are. Tech Skill in itself is pretty prevalent in most fighters, especially the newer ones. Smash was always a bit more casual due to its simplistic design. Soul Calibur isn't a casual fighter by any means. Having more depth doesn't change anything.
 

ETWIST51294

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Soul Calibur requires extreme technical timing. It's based off of technical timing. Smash in itself is not. You don't have specific combos, taking out the true tech. They're both technical fighters. I don't know why definition you're using, but technical fighters have dial-in combos as is. Melee's not that technical in the first place, and it's not hard a game to play and get good at either. It's extremely accessible as is.
All you have to do in SC is remember the strings and learn which situations to use them and what punishes what.

I'm talking about hand speed and button presses. You don't have to believe me, but I already know what 'm saying is right from experience.



So, more technical fighters. Those all are. Tech Skill in itself is pretty prevalent in most fighters, especially the newer ones. Smash was always a bit more casual due to its simplistic design. Soul Calibur isn't a casual fighter by any means. Having more depth doesn't change anything.
Whoa, whoa, WHOA. NEW ONES??? No. That is the COMPLETE opposite. They're ALL easier. Idk where you got that from.
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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All you have to do in SC is remember the strings and learn which situations to use them and what punishes what.

I'm talking about hand speed and button presses. You don't have to believe me, but I already know what I'm saying is right from experience.
It's not always that easy. Those button presses are a major part of Tech Skill in itself. And actually, Tech Skill depends entirely on the mechanics.

Whoa, whoa, WHOA. NEW ONES??? No. That is the COMPLETE opposite. They're ALL easier. Idk where you got that from.
New ones being after the very basic fighters that were simple punches and kicks. No "Left, Right, A" type stuff. Simplistic Fighters. Smash still uses the simple fighting style, as do some other games.

I refer to Technical Fighters that uses Dial-Ins, actual moves that aren't only a button and a direction(or just a button). They need to have full strings, etc. Smash has only had 2 characters that do dial-ins. Marth and Roy. Marth's was even simplified in Brawl, eliminating it for the most part.

So it's just a clash of definitions, I guess.
 

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Oh my God, pressing buttons in sequence is so hard!

*Changes channel by pressing sequence of numbers on remote*
 
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