New Smash Bros for WiiU

[GiantBreadbug]

@ Breadbug

So... Chandelure for Smash 4 because it is the most popular 5th gen Pokemon among fans who play the games? I really don't think they are going to do that. :-/ I think Nintendo/Sakurai would prefer to add a character more people are likely to recognize instead of adding a character few people would recognize, regardless of their popularity. It would appeal more people... it appeals the fans of the games and attracts new people to the games.

Ummmm... Yes? If they could make Chandelure work, then I think it absolutely should be in SSB4. And you say "because it is the most popular...among fans who play the game" like it's a bad thing. So being popular in the anime is okay, but if an unconventional Pokémon is popular among people who play the games (which, may I remind you, are videogames, like Smash Bros., and thus infinitely more substantial than the anime), then it's a bad choice?

And again, I don't think you're hearing me, so I'll caps lock it and bold it for you:

JUST BECAUSE MEOWTH IS POPULAR/RECOGNIZABLE BY WAY OF THE ANIME, IT DOESN'T MATTER BECAUSE THE ANIME IS DEAD. FEWER PEOPLE WATCH THE SHOW THAN PLAY THE GAMES. THIS MAY NOT HAVE BEEN THE CASE DURING THE DEVELOPMENT OF OTHER SMASH BROS. GAMES, BUT IT'S TRUE NOW.

Also, Chandelure is f*cking awesome.

 

[Big-Cat]

Wow. He actually GOT YOU GOOD, SmashChu.

Also that's really sad Meowth's voice actor died. The magic that Arcadenik fell in love with is something he will never see in Smash now. Sakurai has teased Nik THAT long.

Heartbreaking.

She died back in 2008, but the new guy has gotten better with Meowth, even if he can't top Maddie.

@GB
I have a feeling the anime plays a certain degree in deciding the characters in Smash. Isn't Smash Lucario implied to be based on Movie 8? Besides, Sakurai even said Meowth is a famous Pokemon so for him to be brought back for Brawl, even as a Pokeball, should say something.

 

[yani]

Also that's really sad Meowth's voice actor died.

Really? Didn't know that .

Not a fan of the new VA though.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

It's funny how people forget that Red ALSO had Charizard, Blastoise, and Venusaur in Gold/Silver/Crystal. I mean, it's not like only Ash has them, right? Admittably, the idea of Red getting all of them from influence in the Anime is not unrealistic either.

Also, that's Pokemon Trainer, not Red. He represents pretty much the entire class, and Red is the literal most recognizable trainer, for better or worse.

@Falchion's Roster: I do not like the disclusion of Sonic and Snake. Also, lack of Jigglypuff goes a bit too far.(Remove Trainer or Meowth for her, either or) Also, you can get a bit more space by removing Travis(he doesn't fit in any better than Snake, and may fit in even worse) and one of the two new KI reps. One should be good enough. It's one of the better rosters I've seen, but Snake isn't hard to keep thanks to the friendship between Kojima and Sakurai. Also, replacing Sonic for X(who, while popular, isn't the original MegaMan, who's even more popular)

I don't dislike the choices, I dislike who's left out. If the rest of the guys mentioned were put back in, sure.

 

[GiantBreadbug]

@Kuma Oh yes, it most certainly does play a role. And the argument I'm chest-deep in has become just a bit derailed. I'm not saying Meowth isn't likely to get in (unfortunately for me, he's got better chances than my personal favorites), I'm saying that there are a great many better choices to please fans of the games. The anime has taken a very diminished role in Pokémon culture as of late, so it's time to start picking Pokémon characters that represent the games well, not the anime.

 

[Big-Cat]

All right, GB, how about instead of discussing liklihood (which seems to cause more strife than anything else in this thread), why don't we discuss how these characters can work?

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

I don't care that Meowth doesn't have the best stats. I raise Pokémon that I like, regardless of how terrible they might be.

Also, the bit about Meowth being more recognizable is silly. People who don't play Pokémon probably don't watch Pokémon, so the odds of them recognizing Meowth just because of the anime are slim. And just because some person who hasn't played Pokémon in his/her life can point to a picture of Meowth and identify him because they saw "that one episode of the anime," that doesn't make Meowth a better choice. And "it is a cat?" So now we should restrict playable Pokemon to those that are similar to recognizable, IRL creatures? Some of the coolest Pokémon (like the ones I listed) may be "difficult to recognize/describe" (ancient automaton, tree, and humanoid guardian would be how you describe those, by the way), so saying that Meowth is a better choice because "people would recognize a cat instantly" isn't exactly a good argument.

Pokémon Trainer is loosely based on anime elements (and I'm being generous). Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Charizard are popular because they're starters. Every person who has played first generation has come into contact with at least one of them, if not all three. Plusle and Minun in no way, shape, or form have a prominent anime presence. They were dreamed up to replace Pichu; the anime had nothing to do with them being planned (if the pri_mai theory even holds up).

And what I'm saying is that the anime no longer defines "fame." Yeah, a good many of the Pokémon we play as in Smash are there, in part, because of the anime (to say that the videogames don't have equal influence is just ignorant), but the times they are a-changin'. It's time to include Pokémon that fans of Pokémon games will enjoy. I don't know sh*t about Fire Emblem, so I don't care who gets in, as long as they're fun to play. I'm willing to bet that people who don't know much about Pokémon would feel the same.

Um... Plusle and Minun were pretty prominent in the Deoxys movie, so I don't know how this applies.

 

[Baskerville]

It's funny how people forget that Red ALSO had Charizard, Blastoise, and Venusaur in Gold/Silver/Crystal. I mean, it's not like only Ash has them, right? Admittably, the idea of Red getting all of them from influence in the Anime is not unrealistic either.

Also, that's Pokemon Trainer, not Red. He represents pretty much the entire class, and Red is the literal most recognizable trainer, for better or worse.

@Falchion's Roster: I do not like the disclusion of Sonic and Snake. Also, lack of Jigglypuff goes a bit too far.(Remove Trainer or Meowth for her, either or) Also, you can get a bit more space by removing Travis(he doesn't fit in any better than Snake, and may fit in even worse) and one of the two new KI reps. One should be good enough. It's one of the better rosters I've seen, but Snake isn't hard to keep thanks to the friendship between Kojima and Sakurai. Also, replacing Sonic for X(who, while popular, isn't the original MegaMan, who's even more popular)

I don't dislike the choices, I dislike who's left out. If the rest of the guys mentioned were put back in, sure.

Thanks for the input.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Thanks for the input.

No problem. Your choices are not bad at all. They're all good.(I'm still iffy on Travis, but unlike Snake with explosives, can he even be made to fit in?)

I'd say expand it by one block each row-wise(downwards) so you can add in some stragglers.

 

[Arcadenik]

I never said his inclusion in Smash Bros. would represent Mario spin-off games. I know he's a main-ish character in the main series Mario games. But in order to actually give him a moveset, they would have to dip into the Mario-spinoff games he's been in. Toad doesn't exactly do much besides run and jump around, after all.

Besides, the Mario spin-off games are practically different franchises on their own. It would be nice to have a character represent them, and Waluigi is the go to spin-off character (well, aside from Daisy, lol).

I'd rather have Toad represent the spin-off games through his specials than to have Waluigi and Daisy. He can use the racing kart from Mario Kart series for one of his specials or maybe Final Smash. Sakurai always mentions Mario Kart in Toad's trophies in Melee and Brawl... and we got a Mario Kart stage in Brawl.

Here's my suggested moveset...

B - Mini Mushroom
Toad does the same thing Peach does with Toad, but with Mini Mushroom. Characters who hit the mushroom get shrunken for a few seconds. This evens the battlefield and Toad now has a fighting chance against bigger/stronger opponents. This move refers the computer-controlled Toad's ability to throw Poison Mushrooms in the original Mario Kart games.

Side B - Golden Mushroom
Toad charges and runs, tackling down enemies... it would function like Luigi/Pikachu/Ike's Side B move. This move refers Toad's special item in Mario Kart Double Dash, which is the Golden Mushroom.

Up B - Propeller Mushroom
Toad's recovery, to compensate for Toad's poor jumping power and to slow down Toad's fall. This move refers the Propeller Mushrooms from New Super Mario Bros. Wii.

Down B - Pick Up
Toad's playstyle revolves around this move... Toad does a ground pound like Yoshi's down B... but instead of hitting the enemy, Toad immediately picks up the enemy. Toad can carry them around or throw them in any direction like Link does with his bombs. This move refers Toad's superhuman strength from Super Mario Bros. 2.

Final Smash - Lucky 7
Toad starts driving in his original kart from the SNES game... but he uses the Lucky 7 item from Mario Kart 7 to do the following:

- randomly drop behind common bananas or rare Bob-ombs (press the A button)
- randomly throw ahead common green shells or rare red shells (press the B button)
- jump with the feather (press the jump button, no double jump, no Up B recovery)
- invulnerable with the Starman (automatically because all characters are invincible during their Final Smashes)
- temporarily turns into Bullet Bill (press both L and R buttons, but then you cannot use the other items during this transformation)

 

[GiantBreadbug]

Um... Plusle and Minun were pretty prominent in the Deoxys movie, so I don't know how this applies.

It applies because the movie wasn't about them. There were plenty of Pokémon in that movie to plan a character on, but Plusle and Minun made good Pichu replacements.

Deoxys wasn't even planned to be playable, and it was the star of the movie.

@Kuma That sounds delightful. However, my phone is my only access to the internet right now, and typing long moveset-ish posts is difficult on this thing...

 

[Big-Cat]

You know, I thought of a good move for Meowth, a pouncing stance with followups.

It would behave similarly to Xiaoyu's Phoenix Stance. Here's a video for reference:
6:00-7:40

@Arc
Not bad.

 

[yani]

Gonna update my music page in zee BR

 

[Arcadenik]

KumaOso... can you check out my suggested moveset I made for Meowth last summer? It is kinda long and detailed but it's got some YouTube links to illustrate how Meowth's moves would be like. Here it is.

This "pouncing stance with followups" move you showed me with Tekken... the concept is something similar to what I suggested for Meowth's Side+ B (Fury Swipes) in that moveset. The reason I felt this one move fits Meowth because of the nature of how Fury Swipes works in Pokemon games... you can hit the opponent from 2 to 5 times in one turn.

 

[Big-Cat]

The Fury Swipes concept is more like Marth's Sword Dance or Karin's Rekka. Of course, that's not to say both can be in his moveset. Xiaoyu's Fortune Cookie is pretty much a rekka. He can easily be an annoying character along with Toad.

 

[Daroach]

Likely to change, may make another roster for the 3DS version.

 

[LC-DDM]

If anything, Sakurai didn't do enough with Sonic's moveset. His Side B spell should've been the Fire Shield Boost from Sonic 3 & Knuckles, and his Down B spell should've been the Magni-Barrier or Bubble Shield from said Knuckles arc.

To the one who suggested Tifa Lockheart represent Square, when have any Final Fantasy VII characters ever been on a Nintendo system?

Never, I think. But she has breasts, that's good enough reason for me.

 

[Arcadenik]

The Fury Swipes concept is more like Marth's Sword Dance or Karin's Rekka. Of course, that's not to say both can be in his moveset. Xiaoyu's Fortune Cookie is pretty much a rekka. He can easily be an annoying character along with Toad.

Hmm... so I had to Google "rekka" to find out what it is... I saw Fei Long's Rekkaken on Street Fighter Wiki... and I understood immediately what it is. I used to play Super Street Fighter II over 15 years ago... I remember you had to do Down then Forward + Punch repeatedly to do that move. Yeah, you could say Meowth's Fury Swipes could possibly work as a rekka because of the nature of how Fury Swipes works in the Pokemon games. BTW, Marth's Side B move could be considered a rekka, right?

 

[Aurane]

Fury Swipes for Meowth should be a mix of Marth's (B)> and Lucario's (B)>. Grab/rapid pummel nearby, and toggle slashing if not nearby.

Anyone got any suggestions of who I should make a (B)-Moveset for in my (B)-Set blog?

 

[Zap tackle]

I never said his inclusion in Smash Bros. would represent Mario spin-off games. I know he's a main-ish character in the main series Mario games. But in order to actually give him a moveset, they would have to dip into the Mario-spinoff games he's been in. Toad doesn't exactly do much besides run and jump around, after all.

Besides, the Mario spin-off games are practically different franchises on their own. It would be nice to have a character represent them, and Waluigi is the go to spin-off character (well, aside from Daisy, lol).

Peach made it into Melee when she had SMB2 as the only main platformer she was playable (in fact, it still is). The Mario bros. do very little aside from running and jumping as well so that is no excuse.

That is why all the Super Mario characters have unique and made up moves based on their properties as the Mario games lack detail. Green Missle? Koopa Claw? Peach Bomber, most of their physical moves? There are actual Mario games moves as well; however, they function differently as well. As with the spin-offs, we're already past that step as Peach even had tennis/golf in her side smash.

I'd imagine Toad would work the same as he would be able to bring in moves
and abilities from the plaformers he's in (he can even bring the new unrepresented moves from NSMB Wii). Additionally, he has expressed mushroom/spore based abilities in the past (even in smash); so, it's not farfetched Toad would have the same treatment as the other playable Mario characters. Sakurai is also aware of Toad's abilities as he mentions his stats in both his melee and brawl trophies. The only spin-off move I can imagine being given to Toad is the Kart from Mario Kart since Toad is an icon for that series.

Sorry for the length, but I needed to get that out.

 

[Pichu Fan]

Nobody probably cares, but sega just announced sonic and sega all star racing 2 a few minutes ago. They didn't say what platform, but they hinted towards wii u and Ps vita.

 

[Big-Cat]

Hmm... so I had to Google "rekka" to find out what it is... I saw Fei Long's Rekkaken on Street Fighter Wiki... and I understood immediately what it is. I used to play Super Street Fighter II over 15 years ago... I remember you had to do Down then Forward + Punch repeatedly to do that move. Yeah, you could say Meowth's Fury Swipes could possibly work as a rekka because of the nature of how Fury Swipes works in the Pokemon games. BTW, Marth's Side B move could be considered a rekka, right?

Marth's Sword Dance is a rekka, but more like Karin's in that there are options for followups where as Fei-Long only has either stop or follow up with another one.

Still, more thoughts on the pouncing stance? It may not be a canon move, but it's most definitely not out of character. At least it'd be more interesting than a counter move.

 

[Daroach]

Pichu Fan: Mind giving us a source?

I actually liked Sega All-Stars Racing, too, so a sequel would be cool.

 

[Metal Overlord]

I care

The first All-Star Racing was actually pretty good

 

[Aurane]

I care

The first All-Star Racing was actually pretty good

I agree. I've heard so much goodness out of that game. I heard Alex Kidd is in it. Auto main

 

[Arcadenik]

Marth's Sword Dance is a rekka, but more like Karin's in that there are options for followups where as Fei-Long only has either stop or follow up with another one.

Still, more thoughts on the pouncing stance? It may not be a canon move, but it's most definitely not out of character. At least it'd be more interesting than a counter move.

It sounds like Fei Long's rekka is a basic one... was he the first character to use that kind of move in a fighting game?

I am a bit iffy on the pouncing stance... the pouncing stance itself is fine, but I am unclear on what Meowth would do after that initial stance. Does he chain together his scratches and coin throws during said rekka? Hmm...

 

[Zap tackle]

@Metal

I agree. It's a rather delightful game and it's good to hear that it is getting a sequel (might not be Mario Kart; hoever, it is the best racing game I've played after MK).

 

[Big-Cat]

As far as I know, Fei-Long was the first. If not, he's the one that popularized it.

As for what Meowth could do from that stance. Just watch that portion of the Tekken video to get an idea. He could do an anti-air pounce, wavedash from left to right, a special sidestep that moves behind the opponent, a tripping move, etc. There are a lot of possibilities.

 

[LC-DDM]

That guy from Mass Effect, right? Commander Shepherd?

This criteria of appearing on a Nintendo console is REALLY fickle, though. It's not much of a connection to Nintendo because a game doesn't have to have anything to do with Nintendo to be on the DS or something.

(What MGS game was on a Nintendo console, by the way? Peace Walker, maybe?)

Also, yes, Nicole. Thank you.

edit: MGS started on the NES? Didn't know that.

Well there's Metal Gear, Metal Gear 2, Metal Gear Ghost Babel, Twin Snakes, and recently, Snake Eater 3DS. So, yeah, Snake has Ninty background repertoire.

Nobody probably cares, but sega just announced sonic and sega all star racing 2 a few minutes ago. They didn't say what platform, but they hinted towards wii u and Ps vita.

Giving a source would be nice.

Also, I wish Mario could get in on Sega All Star Racing 2 since he was supposed to be in the first one...

 

[Arcadenik]

Sonic & Sega All-Star Racing 2? Sounds cool... hope they add the following new racers:

- Gilius Thunderhead (Golden Axe)
- NiGHTS
- Ristar
- ToeJam & Earl
- Vyse (Skies of Arcadia)
- Welkin & Alicia (Valkyria Chronicles)

Off topic, Nintendo should make a Nintendo All-Stars racing game.

As far as I know, Fei-Long was the first. If not, he's the one that popularized it.

As for what Meowth could do from that stance. Just watch that portion of the Tekken video to get an idea. He could do an anti-air pounce, wavedash from left to right, a special sidestep that moves behind the opponent, a tripping move, etc. There are a lot of possibilities.

I can see there are a lot of possibilities Meowth could do... you are right, Meowth could end up annoying with a move that trips characters.

 

[Deleted member]

I hope Metal Sonic is not system exclusive DLC this time.

Oh, and that Vectorman is a racer, he's pretty neat.

OH, and that Team Chaotix were racers as well.

EDIT: OH! And effing SEGATA SANSHIRO!

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Puyo Puyo reps!!! God, Please!

I so wanna drive as Arle or even AMITIE, just to pwn those racers with Bayoen! Gauh.

It's like Smash Bros treats puzzle series: they get little to no tribute.

 

[Big-Cat]

I can see there are a lot of possibilities Meowth could do... you are right, Meowth could end up annoying with a move that trips characters.

I'd like to see everyone get a tripping move, but make it certain each time. Just make it Down-Foward Smash.

 

[Arcadenik]

I'd like to see everyone get a tripping move, but make it certain each time. Just make it Down-Foward Smash.

Down Forward Smash? Can it be a simple Down+A move? I think a lot of people hardly use the Down+A move because they prefer to use the Smash Down+A move. It could encourage people to start using Down+A more and not just rely on Smash Down+A. Hmm?

 

[Metal Overlord]

We need a Streets of Rage character in the game, too

 

[Big-Cat]

Down Forward Smash? Can it be a simple Down+A move? I think a lot of people hardly use the Down+A move because they prefer to use the Smash Down+A move. It could encourage people to start using Down+A more and not just rely on Smash Down+A. Hmm?

No, because the risk:reward ratio would be off. It can also take away some options as a result. Characters like Fox would lose a launcher.

You know me, though, I'm looking for anything to make the ground game stronger, one reason why I suggested SFA-type chains.

 

[LC-DDM]

Sonic & Sega All-Star Racing 2? Sounds cool... hope they add the following new racers:

- Gilius Thunderhead (Golden Axe)
- NiGHTS
- Ristar
- ToeJam & Earl
- Vyse (Skies of Arcadia)
- Welkin & Alicia (Valkyria Chronicles)

Off topic, Nintendo should make a Nintendo All-Stars racing game.

It's like Smash Bros... ON WHEELS!

We need a Streets of Rage character in the game, too

Oh yes, so much so. In Smash 4, right? 'cause Axel Stone could totally do it.

 

[LC-DDM]

disregard this post, it was a mistake

 

[ETWIST51294]

Marth's Sword Dance is a rekka, but more like Karin's in that there are options for followups where as Fei-Long only has either stop or follow up with another one.

Still, more thoughts on the pouncing stance? It may not be a canon move, but it's most definitely not out of character. At least it'd be more interesting than a counter move.

I'm confused on how a 3D fighter stance would work in smash. I know a lot about them (I play a lot of soul calibur) I just don't know how'd it work.

 

[Big-Cat]

I'm confused on how a 3D fighter stance would work in smash. I know a lot about them (I play a lot of soul calibur) I just don't know how'd it work.

Xiao, Hwo, and possibly Lei in SFxTK should give us a pretty good idea how a Smash version could work. Of course, we'd lose most if not all the sidestepping moves.

Then there's MvC3 Jill.

Either way, it's something I wouldn't mind testing out myself if I had the time and resources.