New Smash Bros for WiiU

[Arcadenik]

This is my rebooted Smash 4 roster I mentioned earlier... now in one handy image!

 

[Big-Cat]

Points for Baraman.

I"ll be surprised if he's widely demanded for Smash 4.

 

[aba1]

Points for Baraman.

I"ll be surprised if he's widely demanded for Smash 4.

Which series is he from (I don't recognize all the characters)

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

That's the original Boxart for the American MegaMan. As for this roster...

Bowser Jr. > Toad.

Pokemon: Yeah, no. Cutting Jigglypuff is not only unacceptable, but it WON'T happen anyway. Switch with Mewtwo or PT. Then it's good.

Falco is NOT getting cut either. That's bull. Nor is Sheik. You do not need 3 Kid Icarus reps either. One new one is good enough. Toon Link/Young Link will be in no matter what, and if one had to be chosen, it'll be him, not Adult Link. Leave Impa out for Child Link and keep Sheik in. Punch-Out!! getting two reps? Nah. There's other guys like Mach Rider or, you know, CAPTAIN FALCON, who also won't get cut.

Decent ideas, but the cuts are completely unrealistic and will never happen. The original 12 and two-time veterans have an extremely tiny chance of ever getting hit.

I would definitely ignore this roster. It's just bad, Arcadenik. If it's the Wii U roster, and you have a 3DS one that fixes the issues I talked about and INCLUDES the veterans that won't be cut, then fine. Otherwise, it's completely unrealistic and won't happen. Also, where the hell is Isaac and/or Saki? They're more important than Chocobo/Slime.

 

[Luco]

Don't get me wrong I do feel the series is made to be competitive I just feel the casual crowd is put ahead of the competitive priority wise in development.

Well, in melee I don't believe that was the case. In brawl, I suppose you're right, but that probably comes from the fact that most gamers are casual gamers these days, now that other mainstream Nintendo games are being aimed at whole families, Brawl probably just got sucked into that whirlpool. At the same time, I do like my competitive brawl, it can still be played competitively, it's just not the same as melee. Some people don't like it, some people do. I don't mind, personally, though.

Haha, seems we got completely off topic to our original discussion. Ahh well. ^^

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Actually, interestingly enough, Sakurai did not plan for Melee to be competitive. He did not think it was completely bad, but really preferred the casual crowd(well, let's be honest, I can see why with how rude and elitist competitive players act, especially top players sometimes. Not that they're all, but it does happen, and I've seen quite a few pathetic examples of this. How they're in the Brawl Back Room is funny. They're a very poor representation of the community, really)

Anyway, any game can be made competitive, just some are more inheirantly competitive than others. Brawl is quite obviously catered to casual players. Doesn't mean it's an unplayable mess. There are practically two problems with it, Meta Knight(which is debatable, I agree) and Tripping(yeah, it's a bad concept, and I don't mind using moves/items/character items to trip, though. It's not random and skillful by that alone)

 

[Metal Overlord]

That roster up there, is, to say the least, not a very good one

 

[RaqTasmeneth]

Ive seen alot of ideas fly up so far and this is my take on SSB4.

I'm expecting a cast between 45 and 50, having losing a good handful from the Brawl cast. I dont believe any of the original 12 will be cut with the exception of possibly Jigglypuff though I dont think they can cut her without replacing with a character of similar dynamics...And I just dont see it.
-Starfy -Nook -Krystal -Vaati -Krool -BanjoKazooie -Mii all seemed like really popular and good options. Sorry, I did not recognize some of the others. Some of the others such as Palutena-- Im not sure how they would incorperate. (In this case when we already have Zelda and Pit.) Please dont flame me about Krystal, we have already seen enuff of that.
In my opinion the following characters should be replaced with the suggested as I compiled in this thread...

Ike-- Ephraim or Hector
Reasoning: If they DO replace a FE char, it shouldnt be for a fast one...they should keep a slow one. I will admit I really wanted Lyn in Brawl but I knew it was too much to ask.

Lucario-- Zoroark
Reasoning: They replaced Mewtwo for Luc since he had his own movie. Surprise Surprise...Zoro has his movie now. Time for change. I dont think they will bring Mewtwo back either.

PkMn Trainer-- The following...
I liked the theme of PkMn Trainer but I think they could swap out the classic starters with a list of updated ones. Maybe Shaymin(sky) Victini and ...Genosect? Just putting out options...

And I expect (as a peach main) a rosalina skin at the very least.

 

[Metal Overlord]

Mewtwo was never really replaced by Lucario, they were both planned to be in the game and Mewtwo was almost finished

And the Pokemon Trainer's Pokemon don't really need to change

 

[Arcadenik]

The goal of my rebooted roster is to make Smash 4 NOT Brawl 2.0. You want Jigglypuff, Ness, Captain Falcon, Falco, Sheik, Toon Link? Go play Brawl or ask for Smash 5. This isn't Brawl 2.0, this is Smash 4. This is a sequel, not an expansion. New characters take priority over old characters. I'm not very conservative when it comes to cutting. Remember what ChronoBound asked us last night? What if Sakurai decided to keep the roster size around Brawl's size? Well, that's the result.

Toad > Bowser Jr. because Toad aesthetically looks different from Mario, Luigi, Peach, or Bowser... and Toad isn't likely to end up a clone of Mario, Luigi, Peach, or Bowser. Toad is far more marketable and popular compared to Bowser Jr. anyway.

As for Punch-Out getting two reps, I don't see why not. Fire Emblem got two reps in Melee when there were none in Smash 64. Marth and Little Mac should have been in Smash 64 and Melee respectively. Melee fixed that for Fire Emblem and Smash 4 should fix that for Punch-Out. Punch-Out is also popular... always has been popular since the NES years. I specifically picked out King Hippo because he's the most popular/memorable/iconic villain of the series. There's a reason Nintendo chose to use his image to promote Punch-Out Wii. He's practically the Ridley of Punch-Out. What I meant by this statement is that like Metroid, Punch-Out have no true main villain but King Hippo stands out just like Ridley does.

As for Kid Icarus getting three reps, why not? Mother didn't need two characters in Brawl but it did get two. Star Fox didn't need two characters in Melee but it did get two. I notice Nintendo have been giving Kid Icarus more love than they did for Mother and Star Fox anyway. Nintendo hasn't done anything with Mother and most fans generally don't like Star Fox games except for Star Fox 64. Many fans want more female characters... there you go! At least they aren't fillers because they are the Peach/Zelda and Bowser/Ganondorf of the Kid Icarus series. Notice how we got both Peach/Bowser and Zelda/Ganondorf in Melee? Can't have one without the other... Palutena/Medusa are the same in that respect.

If Child Link was that important, why is it that he's always a last minute addition in Melee and Brawl? He doesn't have priority over Adult Link... he's only added in whenever Sakurai feels the roster isn't big enough. He wasn't even in Smash 64, we got Adult Link instead. He's one of my mains in Brawl and I still think he should be cut, especially when he is never going to be decloned anyway. It's the rule that similar characters should be clones of original characters.

The original 12 aren't that safe. Jigglypuff almost got the cut in Brawl and she was added back in very late when Sakurai decided to make the roster bigger. I think Ness was cut originally but added back in to make the roster bigger... and we know that Sakurai had always planned to replace Ness with Lucas since Melee. Well, consider this... if 35 slots were big enough for Sakurai, how big was it before we ultimately got 35 slots?

Falco getting the cut. Oh yeah. We don't need three Star Fox characters with the same special moves. I picked Wolf over Falco because he's a villain and to balance the series, we got Star Fox vs. Star Wolf. Falco shouldn't have been in Smash in the first place. He was a last minute addition in Melee... and Wolf was originally planned to be in Brawl in the beginning but got cut later and then got added back in the last minute.

Sheik? Point of cutting Sheik and replacing with Impa is to separate Zelda and Sheik and keep both movesets but without transformation."Impa" is basically Sheik with an Impa model. You get to play as Sheik who looks like Impa.

Pokemon. My choices go like this. Since Pokemon gets two reps in each Smash game and one is from 1st gen and the other is from the latest gen at that time. I keep one rep from each Smash game and add two reps. Pikachu > Jigglypuff. Mewtwo > Pichu. Pokemon Trainer > Lucario. Add Meowth and Zoroark.

No Isaac nor Saki because the roster only has 44 slots. Melee had 3 rows and 9 columns. Brawl had 4 rows and 9 columns. So I'm guessing Smash 4 might have 5 rows and 9 columns. Sakurai isn't going to put in 50+ characters. So I had to be very selective when it comes to adding new characters and keeping old characters.

I picked Starfy and Mii over Isaac and Saki because 1) there's a good possibility that Starfy was planned to be playable in Brawl at one point because Starly's trophy is grouped with the Fighter Related trophies and 2) Starfy have more games than Golden Sun and Sin & Punishment which tells me Starfy is more popular than those two series and 3) it is Mii, the most popular new character of the Wii years.

The fact some people don't like this roster tells me I'm doing it right. I know it sounds twisted but it will only make the fans demand Smash 5 with the cut characters coming back plus new characters who didn't get in Smash 4. If I had kept everyone from Brawl plus Roy, Mewtwo, Ridley, King K. Rool, Little Mac, Toad, Palutena or Medusa, Isaac, Saki, and Mega Man... fans would be too satisfied that they wouldn't be demanding Smash 5 as much as we did for Brawl and are currently doing for Smash 4.

 

[Oasis_S]

Hmmm... Yeah.

'Cadenik is insane.

 

[Diddy Kong]

At the very least I would want Ness (over Lucas, mix their styles maybe) and Captain Falcon in it. Jiggz and Falco are cool to, but wouldn't mind as much seeing them leave.

If you'd toss away Mii, either Palutena or Medusa and King Hippo for the classic 3 unlockables it'd be much better. Still, do agree with your sentiments that cuts shouldn't be as conservatively resisted.

 

[yani]

That roster made my eyes bleed

 

[Metal Overlord]

Want 4 to be a reboot in the series, Arcade?

Make the GAMEPLAY different then. The roster could be completely rebooted but as a video game, it's still not really a reboot if the gameplay mostly remains the same

Lol, it isn't really that hard to figure out

 

[yani]

Want 4 to be a reboot of Brawl, Arcade?

Make the GAMEPLAY different then. The roster could be completely rebooted but as a video game, it's still not really a reboot if the gameplay mostly remains the same

Lol, it isn't really that hard to figure out

This. Smash doesn't even need to be "rebooted" it's Nintendo All-Stars (inb4), not Nintendo's Most Relevant

 

[Aurane]

Happy Super Bowl Sunday, everyone. (Though I'll be watching Puppy Bowl XD)

So, what's the discussion on hand, mentlegen?

 

[Metal Overlord]

Arcadenik is cut happy, asage

That's about it discussion-wise lol

BTW, good point yani

 

[Aurane]

Arcadenik is cut happy, asage

That's about it discussion-wise lol

BTW, good point yani

Cut happy? He must of just got the 2nd badge in the Sinnoh region

Speaking of Badges, I'm stuck on the 2nd to last gym leaders in Emerald... I hate that so badly, those two.

 

[SmashChu]

This is my concern with Smash 4 as well. Even Sakurai has said that you can't just keep adding to the old content. It's just not a good thing to do. So combine this with my controversial mechanics ideas, this game is the perfect time for a reboot, or rather, rebirth of sorts..

My answer

First, you're idea is not controversial, it was just awful. It misses the point of Smash and I can say no one wants that. Second, there have only been 3 games released over 13 years. I really don't think the series warrants a reboot.

Also, on this Krystal argument, yes, Chrono sometimes gets antsy when Krystal comes up, but his argument is still stronger. Yes, Krystal is a controversial character. Yes, putting her before Falco and Wolf is ******** (they have always been bigger players in the games). And no, Sakurai is not going to add a character just because he/she is unique. Remember his first criteria is the character has to make people want to play the game.

sometimes you guys.

 

[Aurane]

And no, Sakurai is not going to add a character just because he/she is unique. Remember his first criteria is the character has to make people want to play the game.

No freakin' way! Never would of known...

That's the symbolism for ANY game made. You want it to be popular? You put the right equipment, the right quests, storyline, whatever. The goal of any Video game designer is to get people to play it, using whatever resource or addition to the game you can get your hands on. See Pokewalker and Guitar Hero.

 

[Opossum]

Cut happy? He must of just got the 2nd badge in the Sinnoh region

Speaking of Badges, I'm stuck on the 2nd to last gym leaders in Emerald... I hate that so badly, those two.

Funny. I just restarted Emerald and defeated Wattson. God, that game is full of nostalgia. I'd love to see it somehow as a physical stage in SSB4. Perhaps Mt. Chimney or Meteor Falls?

It also made me love Breloom again. He'd make a fantastic Poke Ball.


@SmashChu: Didn't he decide on the Ice Climbers over other retros due to the whole "unique tag team" thing?

 

[Aurane]

Funny. I just restarted Emerald and defeated Wattson. God, that game is full of nostalgia. I'd love to see it somehow as a physical stage in SSB4. Perhaps Mt. Chimney or Meteor Falls?

It also made me love Breloom again. He'd make a fantastic Poke Ball.

My team as of now is:
Grovyle, Manactric, Gardevoir, Gyrados, Tropius, and Camerupt.

Tropius is an HM Slave.

 

[Berserker.]

My answer

First, you're idea is not controversial, it was just awful. It misses the point of Smash and I can say no one wants that. Second, there have only been 3 games released over 13 years. I really don't think the series warrants a reboot.

It's true that the series should NOT be rebooted.

I don't think Sakurai meant it THAT way Kuma. You can't just dump out the whole core gameplay of smash because that's how it began and people liked the game for being unique and special (Compared to other traditional fighting games). It may not act like a traditional fighting game but since ahem... It walks like a duck, acts like a duck, then it is a duck. Maybe add new content or change current character elements but not replace it with something new.

 

[Aurane]

Holy crap... Grovyle VS Lunatone and Solrock... Hyper Potions/Revives ftw... I hope.

EDIT: Nvm, I lost

 

[Pieman0920]

*clicks into most recent page*
*Sees that aweful roster suggestion*

Oh man, it gets worse the more I look at it. Reading the explanations makes it worse too.

Anyways, I think I've said it before, but I don't think there will be any mass amount of cuts unless there is some type of large system update. Yeah there wasn't all that much changed from Melee to Brawl in terms of the fundamentals, but Melee doesn't really have the clone situation. The way I see it, there will probably be less this time around due to the backlash coming from the cuts (and those were clones/unpopular characters), so maybe like 3 max, instead of 11 or so like Arc's suggesting.

 

[Diddy Kong]

At least he dares to be different in his ideas. And in this way, it's the most realistic way to get the most actual new characters. I don't think it's bad at all, but still want C.Falcon and Ness on it, no mather what.

 

[Aurane]

I got done reading the Pokemon Manga with Spoon-Mewtwo all over again. God, it reminded me how dark the manga series is Lol

It also reminded me of my favorite quote in there.

Oh my God?!?

 

[Diddy Kong]

I read the first manga actually, the one with Red, then I read the one with Yellow. Both where surprisingly good, but liked the first one the best. It's.. so much different to the games, as the enemy Pokemon Trainers where actually evil, and the Pokemon would attack Red personally themselves.

 

[Pieman0920]

At least he dares to be different in his ideas. And in this way, it's the most realistic way to get the most actual new characters. I don't think it's bad at all, but still want C.Falcon and Ness on it, no mather what.

I can dare to make a bad roster too. Doesn't mean it will be good or likely to happen.

And what do you mean the most "realistic" way? How would it mean "actual" new characters? When this sort of thing is done (Why hello there Soul Calibur V) the roster is usually upgraded with new characters who basically take the spot and general moveset of the old ones. That's what "realistically" happens. And there's nothing that says that's how Sakurai works, though I guess its true if you cut out a third of the roster you've got to add in new stuff, so yeah, let's cut out a good chunk of characters that people liked to play with, replace 'em with more obscure characters, and just let that be. At least with SC and Tekken, there's a story purpose there, but that's not how it works for Smash.

 

[Metal Overlord]

I need to read the manga series sometime if it's darker

That's one of the main reasons why I loved Pokemon Colosseum, because of its more mature atmosphere

 

[Aurane]

I need to read the manga series sometime if it's darker

That's one of the main reasons why I loved Pokemon Colosseum, because of its more mature atmosphere

Dude, read it!

 

[victinivcreate1]

same here.

 

[Diddy Kong]

That was the part where Red catched Mewtwo right?

 

[Metal Overlord]

Lol, trust me asage, I will as soon as I get into Outlaw Star for the first time

BTW, does Misty make any appearances in the manga?

 

[Aurane]

same here.

Haven't seen you in awhile... Sup?

That was the part where Red catched Mewtwo right?

Yup. Red tricks Mewtwo, and Pikachu, with the Master ball in his mouth, bump-catches Mewtwo.

@Metal Yes...

 

[victinivcreate1]

u konw whay i feel like doing?playing Melee and beating event match 51 with Jiggs. Catch yall latyer and ill tell u when i beat it.

 

[Metal Overlord]

I think I'm gonna faint now

Anyway, somewhat on-topic, I wonder what the Wii U home menu will look like

 

[yani]

Red catches Mewtwo?! I wanna read that

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

OH MAH GAWSH...I LOVE this remix.

 

[Pichu Fan]

The pokemon manga is just AWSOME. (though it's not as good after the emerald saga)