New Smash Bros for WiiU

[ChronoBound]

You would have to mature to not care so much about who people want based on your subjective criteria.

No. Putting Krystal in before Falco or Wolf is a fanatical fanboy move.

And if you are going to squawk about uniqueness keep in mind Wolf is only four moves away from being a completely unique character.

 

[yani]

I love Balloon Fight but I'd rather see Tingle as a character because there's more to him imo. Plus Tingle in a Balloon Fighter costume would be pretty neat to see

 

[Big-Cat]

No. Putting Krystal in before Falco or Wolf is a fanatical fanboy move.

And if you are going to squawk about uniqueness keep in mind Wolf is only four moves away from being a completely unique character.

Again, you're using your subjective criteria.

I know Wolf is only four moves from being unique, but that doesn't justify Krystal's exclusion.

 

[ChronoBound]

Again, you're using your subjective criteria.

I know Wolf is only four moves from being unique, but that doesn't justify Krystal's exclusion.

Krystal's exclusion is justified on the grounds she is a far less popular and less important character to the Star Fox series than Falco and Wolf.

 

[Big-Cat]

Is that your only argument?

 

[Luco]

I quite agree with you when you get into competitive terms the characters are all quite different but we all know smash bros tends to give way to casual players first and competitive second and people coming from the outside might question why all the characters from starfox play the similar especially since it is all the starfox characters and there are three too.

Personally I have no problem with all three but I think if any cuts to characters are to be made having three characters that can be considered (*note* Not saying they are clones but they can be considered) clones all from the same series is something that would likely come as a relevant fact towards the decision of cutting anyone.

That is true, but at the same time, Melee was a huge competitive game. I guess Brawl was a party game, but I can't help getting the feeling that it was meant to be like that... Hmm...

 

[ChronoBound]

Is that your only argument?

Uniqueness and moveset potential is also subjective.

 

[aba1]

That is true, but at the same time, Melee was a huge competitive game. I guess Brawl was a party game, but I can't help getting the feeling that it was meant to be like that... Hmm...

Don't get me wrong I do feel the series is made to be competitive I just feel the casual crowd is put ahead of the competitive priority wise in development.

 

[Arcadenik]

Don't think of it too much in relevance, but just in gameplay diversity. I'm gonna try this out for a 40 character roster, disregarding the current rosters.

[COLLAPSE="Roster"]

1. Mario
2. Luigi
3. Peach
4. Bowser
5. Toad
6. Wario
7. Capt. Syrup
8. Yoshi
9. Donkey Kong
10. Diddy Kong/Dixie Kong
11. K. Rool
12. Link
13. Zelda
14. Impa (Sheik 2.0 moveset).
15. Ganondorf
16. Fox
17. Wolf
18. Krystal
19. Samus
20. Zero Suit Samus
21. Ridley
22. Pikachu
23. Jigglypuff
24. Mewtwo
25. Pokemon Trainer
26. Capt. Falcon
27. Ness
28. Marth
29. Ike
30. Pit
31. Palutena
32. Kirby
33. Meta Knight
34. Ice Climbers
35. Olimar
36. Tom Nook
37. Isaac (Manly version)
38. Saki
39. Lip
40. Little Mac
41. Shulk

[/COLLAPSE]
Only 27 characters made it from the Brawl roster while 14 are newcomers.
EDIT: Forgot Zamus so it's 41 now.

Looks good. I am all for rebooting Smash... this is my rebooted Smash 4 roster... only 44 characters on the roster (48 if you include transformations).

[COLLAPSE="My rebooted Smash 4 roster"]
Mario series
1. Mario
2. Luigi
3. Peach
4. Bowser
5. Toad
6. Yoshi
7. Wario

Donkey Kong series
8. Donkey Kong
9. Diddy Kong
10. Dixie Kong / Kiddy Kong (team)
11. King K. Rool

Zelda series
12. Link
13. Zelda
14. Ganondorf
15. Impa
16. Tingle

Metroid series
17. Samus / Zero Suit Samus
18. Ridley

Kirby series
19. Kirby
20. Meta Knight
21. King Dedede

Star Fox series
22. Fox
23. Wolf

Pokemon series
24. Pikachu
25. Mewtwo
26. Squirtle / Ivysaur / Charizard (Pokemon Trainer)
27. Meowth
28. Zoroark

Fire Emblem series
29. Marth
30. Chrome

Kid Icarus series
31. Pit
32. Palutena
33. Medusa

Punch-Out series
34. Little Mac
35. King Hippo

Retro series
36. R.O.B.
37. Hunting Dog
38. Takamaru

New series
39. Olimar
40. Starfy
41. Mii

Third Party series
42. Sonic (Classic Sonic redesign)
43. Mega MAN
44. Chocobo & Slime

45. Random

The surprises of the roster would be:
- getting both Dixie Kong and King K. Rool
- the unexpected addition of Kiddy Kong as Dixie Kong's tag team partner
- the separation of Zelda and Sheik
- Sheik being replaced with Impa
- Tingle!
- Falco getting the cut
- Krystal didn't get in
- NO Jigglypuff!
- Meowth finally getting in!
- Chrome getting in over Roy and Ike
- getting both Palutena and Medusa
- getting two Punch-Out characters!
- the second Punch-Out character is King Hippo
- Ice Climbers and Mr. Game & Watch getting the axe
- the inclusion of the Duck Hunt Dog actually happened!
- NO Mother characters
- Captain Falcon getting the cut!
- third party characters are back!
- Bad Box Art Mega Man trolls the Mega Man fans again, courtesy of Capcom
- Square Enix getting two characters in one!
- NO Golden Sun or Sin & Punishment characters!
- OMG Smash still lacks female characters because Dixie Kong, Impa, Palutena, and Medusa don't count
- OMG Smash only has 44 characters! Sakurai added only 9 new characters! FAIL!

See? This is what I want... for us to be surprised and shocked at the decisions Sakurai makes for Smash 4... I don't want to just expect the same old characters from Brawl to come back plus a handful of "safe and conservative" new characters.

Spoiler

The cut characters can be DLC... most fans want the same old characters more than they want the new ones therefore they would be more likely to fork over money to Nintendo for them.

[/COLLAPSE]

 

[aba1]

Uniqueness and moveset potential is also subjective.

Well if we look at all the things they both have done in the games Krystal has done everything Wolf has done plus she has the staff which already had it's own moveset in its own game which can be translated over as well.

It is ok if you don't want Krystal and like wolf fox falco but calling everyone who disagrees with you stupid fanboys and discounting any points or ideas they bring to light about there opinions is just foolish.

 

[ChronoBound]

It is ok if you don't want Krystal and like wolf fox falco but calling everyone who disagrees with you stupid fanboys and discounting any points or ideas they bring to light about there opinions is just foolish.

Its not foolish. Putting in Krystal before Falco or Wolf is the equivalent of putting in Toad before Peach or Bowser or Waddle Dee before King Dedede or Meta Knight. You are a big Krystal fan yourself which is why you disagree with that assessment.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Krystal's exclusion is justified on the grounds she is a far less popular and less important character to the Star Fox series than Falco and Wolf.

And Sakurai didn't know about her existence, perhaps due to less popularity and importance?

She's not unpopular, but nowhere SUPER popular.

 

[ChronoBound]

And Sakurai didn't know about her existence, perhaps due to less popularity and importance?

She's not unpopular, but nowhere SUPER popular.

She is unpopular in Japan. They don't like the post-64 Star Fox game in general though.

 

[Shorts]

No. Putting Krystal in before Falco or Wolf is a fanatical fanboy move.

Not if your goal is to go for uniqueness. Which was kind of Kuma's point.

Krystal's exclusion is justified on the grounds she is a far less popular and less important character to the Star Fox series than Falco and Wolf.

lol. Krystal, a main character in two of the three newest StarFox games, who's storyline is tied THE CLOSEST to Fox, is definitely less important than Falco, that guy who does the same amount as Slippy.

If you're going to play on the side of Falco, use the only thing he has going for him, Melee and Brawl, and then get over your anti-Krystal nonsense. It's kind of old, and tired.

No one here is mentioning how Roy has consistantly fallen at 15/16 on my poll in the past two months. And how Krystal is always in the top ten. Ya know, because no one is quite as biased as you. You talk about fanboyism, you're just as big of a Krystal fanboy as us, only you HATE her. So silly. Soooo, silly.

 

[aba1]

Its not foolish. Putting in Krystal before Falco or Wolf is the equivalent of putting in Toad before Peach or Bowser or Waddle Dee before King Dedede or Meta Knight. You are a big Krystal fan yourself which is why you disagree with that assessment.

I really am not I care about her as a character no more than anyone else in the starfox series. The reason I think she would make a good addition is purely for game play and diversity reasons. If falco and fox were completely 100% different I likely would have never even suggested her because there would be no need to try and split the three up wolf is different enough to only be a half clone but fox and falco are just full on clones and having 2 and a half clones in one series with only three characters to begin with just looks sloppy.

 

[ChronoBound]

Not if your goal is to go for uniqueness. Which was kind of Kuma's point.





lol. Krystal, a main character in two of the three newest StarFox games, who's storyline is tied THE CLOSEST to Fox, is definitely less important than Falco, that guy who does the same amount as Slippy.

If you're going to play on the side of Falco, use the only thing he has going for him, Melee and Brawl, and then get over your anti-Krystal nonsense. It's kind of old, and tired.
.

As Toise said, no one gives a damn about the Star Fox's series's plot, and moreover many people don't give a damn about Star Fox after Star Fox after 64. There is a reason why people are crying out for a reboot.

 

[Metal Overlord]

How about we just stop arguing over Krystal and talk about something NOT so divisive

 

[aba1]

Looks good. I am all for rebooting Smash... this is my rebooted Smash 4 roster... only 44 characters on the roster (48 if you include transformations).

[COLLAPSE="My rebooted Smash 4 roster"]
Mario series
1. Mario
2. Luigi
3. Peach
4. Bowser
5. Toad
6. Yoshi
7. Wario

Donkey Kong series
8. Donkey Kong
9. Diddy Kong
10. Dixie Kong / Kiddy Kong (team)
11. King K. Rool

Zelda series
12. Link
13. Zelda
14. Ganondorf
15. Impa
16. Tingle

Metroid series
17. Samus / Zero Suit Samus
18. Ridley

Kirby series
19. Kirby
20. Meta Knight
21. King Dedede

Star Fox series
22. Fox
23. Wolf

Pokemon series
24. Pikachu
25. Mewtwo
26. Squirtle / Ivysaur / Charizard (Pokemon Trainer)
27. Meowth
28. Zoroark

Fire Emblem series
29. Marth
30. Chrome

Kid Icarus series
31. Pit
32. Palutena
33. Medusa

Punch-Out series
34. Little Mac
35. King Hippo

Retro series
36. R.O.B.
37. Hunting Dog
38. Takamaru

New series
39. Olimar
40. Starfy
41. Mii

Third Party series
42. Sonic (Classic Sonic redesign)
43. Mega MAN
44. Chocobo & Slime

45. Random

The surprises of the roster would be:
- getting both Dixie Kong and King K. Rool
- the unexpected addition of Kiddy Kong as Dixie Kong's tag team partner
- the separation of Zelda and Sheik
- Sheik being replaced with Impa
- Tingle!
- Falco getting the cut
- Krystal didn't get in
- NO Jigglypuff!
- Meowth finally getting in!
- Chrome getting in over Roy and Ike
- getting both Palutena and Medusa
- getting two Punch-Out characters!
- the second Punch-Out character is King Hippo
- Ice Climbers and Mr. Game & Watch getting the axe
- the inclusion of the Duck Hunt Dog actually happened!
- NO Mother characters
- Captain Falcon getting the cut!
- third party characters are back!
- Bad Box Art Mega Man trolls the Mega Man fans again, courtesy of Capcom
- Square Enix getting two characters in one!
- NO Golden Sun or Sin & Punishment characters!
- OMG Smash still lacks female characters because Dixie Kong, Impa, Palutena, and Medusa don't count
- OMG Smash only has 44 characters! Sakurai added only 9 new characters! FAIL!

See? This is what I want... for us to be surprised and shocked at the decisions Sakurai makes for Smash 4... I don't want to just expect the same old characters from Brawl to come back plus a handful of "safe and conservative" new characters.

Spoiler

The cut characters can be DLC... most fans want the same old characters more than they want the new ones therefore they would be more likely to fork over money to Nintendo for them.

[/COLLAPSE]

Good list I was disappointed with the lack of Ike but mostly cause Ike is the only heavy swordsman in the game I think it be really cool if they added in a character with a axe of halberd more than just another light sword character (Sorry if he isn't a sword user I only found one pic of him and he had a light sword like Marths so I assume hes sorta like marth)

 

[Arcadenik]

And Sakurai didn't know about her existence, perhaps due to less popularity and importance?

She's not unpopular, but nowhere SUPER popular.

And when is her last game? Command? That was when? 2006? 2007? It is 2012... nearly 5-6 years passed already. Does she even have the same level of popularity today as she did back then?

The only reason Krystal is so damn high on Shortie's poll is because the fans want a Star Fox character who is not a clone of Fox and they believe that Sakurai is just going to give her a staff she hasn't used since 2002 in Smash. Falco and Wolf had different weapons to use but Sakurai chose to keep them clones of Fox. Toon Link had different weapons but Sakurai decided that it is a rule that all characters who are similar must be clones of the original ones.

Watch Sakurai make Krystal a Fox clone. She may use her telepathy to do Fox's specials.

B - shoot telepathic beams out of her hands
Side B - make herself fly quickly with her telepathy
Up B - make herself fly in one direction with her telepathy
Down B - reflects projectiles with her telepathy
Final Smash - a pink Landmaster

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

She is unpopular in Japan. They don't like the post-64 Star Fox game in general though.

If a character isn't popular worldwide, they aren't going to be as easily recognized. So my statement is correct in that context anyway.

@Aba1: I agree on her being in. Since the other two most important got in first. Now she has a fair chance, and brings everything needed to the table. As for her popularity, I'd say Tingle has more, but one has easier gameplay potential than the other.

Of course, Toad would be nice to have in too, but I don't see him as likely due to Sakurai's statement of him not being seeable as a Fighter. Now that I think he won't be in, truthfully, but I would put him as an okay chance, but nowhere on the likely scale.

 

[aba1]

And when is her last game? Command? That was when? 2006? 2007? It is 2012... nearly 5-6 years passed already. Does she even have the same level of popularity today as she did back then?

The only reason Krystal is so damn high on Shortie's poll is because the fans want a Star Fox character who is not a clone of Fox and they believe that Sakurai is just going to give her a staff she hasn't used since 2002 in Smash. Falco and Wolf had different weapons to use but Sakurai chose to keep them clones of Fox. Toon Link had different weapons but Sakurai decided that it is a rule that all characters who are similar must be clones of the original ones.

Watch Sakurai make Krystal a Fox clone. She may use her telepathy to do Fox's specials.

B - shoot telepathic beams out of her hands
Side B - make herself fly quickly with her telepathy
Up B - make herself fly in one direction with her telepathy
Down B - reflects projectiles with her telepathy
Final Smash - a pink Landmaster

That would suckkkkkkkkkkk.......

Also to be fair the last game she appeared in was the last starfox game so it was the last game any of the characters appeared in.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

That would suckkkkkkkkkkk.......

Also to be fair the last game she appeared in was the last starfox game so it was the last game any of the characters appeared in.

It's not just that, but Command was possibly the least popular StarFox game so far.

 

[ChronoBound]

The last Star Fox game was Star Fox 64 3D, not Command. Heck, it was even developed by Q-Games, the developer of Command.

 

[Starphoenix]

Why not just complete the foursomes and be done with it?

 

[Arcadenik]

That would suckkkkkkkkkkk.......

Also to be fair the last game she appeared in was the last starfox game so it was the last game any of the characters appeared in.

Star Fox 64 3D? It's got Fox, Falco, and Wolf... where's Krystal again? I wouldn't be surprised if this remake was indeed to reboot the series without Krystal.

 

[Shorts]

As Toise said, no one gives a damn about the Star Fox's series's plot, and moreover many people don't give a damn about Star Fox after Star Fox after 64. There is a reason why people are crying out for a reboot.

Its not foolish. Putting in Krystal before Falco or Wolf is the equivalent of putting in Toad before Peach or Bowser or Waddle Dee before King Dedede or Meta Knight. You are a big Krystal fan yourself which is why you disagree with that assessment.

lol. Take your own advice Chrono.

"Everyone hates Krystal!"

*sees everyone defending her*

"StarFox plotpoints don't matter"

*already tried to warp it for your own gain*

"Well, that's all subjective!"

*everything you've said is just as subjective*

Why not just complete the foursomes and be done with it?

Good man. This is why I like you.

 

[ChronoBound]

Why not just complete the foursomes and be done with it?

Limited roster space.

 

[aba1]

The last Star Fox game was Star Fox 64 3D, not Command. Heck, it was even developed by Q-Games, the developer of Command.

I suppose your right it was the last game I just don't count it since it was a remake and not really a new game.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Star Fox 64 3D? It's got Fox, Falco, and Wolf... where's Krystal again? I wouldn't be surprised if this remake was indeed to reboot the series without Krystal.

The problem with that is that it barely had anything new. It was far from a Reboot as is.

It's just a cool remake and nothing more.

Also, Star Fox Command is the last game in the current storyline. Remakes that do not rewrite the story does not count.

Mortal Kombat 9 is a legitimate reboot. Super Mario 64 DS, Ocarina of Time 3D, and Star Fox 64 3DS are not ones. We have a term for that; Non-Canon/Fun games.

 

[ChronoBound]

lol. Take your own advice Chrono.

"Everyone hates Krystal!"

*sees everyone defending her*

"StarFox plotpoints don't matter"

*already tried to warp it for your own gain*

"Well, that's all subjective!"

*everything you've said is just as subjective*
.

Man, do you warp reality. Pitiful.

 

[Big-Cat]

As Toise said, no one gives a damn about the Star Fox's series's plot, and moreover many people don't give a damn about Star Fox after Star Fox after 64. There is a reason why people are crying out for a reboot.

Funny considering these characters have their fans. They have to like them for something about their character.

How about we just stop arguing over Krystal and talk about something NOT so divisive

No, diverse opinions is good. It's the only really fun discussion.

Star Fox 64 3D? It's got Fox, Falco, and Wolf... where's Krystal again? I wouldn't be surprised if this remake was indeed to reboot the series without Krystal.

If this was indeed the case, they could create a new story to reintroduce Krystal. Remember the alternate continuities in comics? It'd be the same thing.

 

[ChronoBound]

If this was indeed the case, they could create a new story to reintroduce Krystal. Remember the alternate continuities in comics? It'd be the same thing.

What if she is never re-introduced, and the reboot continuity is back to the same level as success as Star Fox 1 and 64? Would she still be needed considering her only legacy was a set of games that symbolized the series's fall from grace?

 

[Arcadenik]

Limited roster space.

Limited roster space means character cuts need to happen in order to make room for brand-new characters. Gotta allocate the number of slots each series may get within the decided roster size.

My rebooted Smash 4 roster.
Mario - 7 (5 Mario, 1 Yoshi, 1 Wario)
Donkey Kong - 4
Zelda - 5 (4 Zelda, 1 Tingle)
Metroid - 2
Kirby - 3
Star Fox - 2
Pokemon - 5
Fire Emblem - 2
Kid Icarus - 3
Punch-Out - 2
Retro - 3
New - 3
Third Party - 3
Random - 1

45 slots max.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Limited roster space.

On what official criteria? It's as limited as Sakurai chooses it to be. There was no limited space on Brawl, or atleast it had room for 6/7 more. All we knew was that there was a time limit overall.

I am not saying this isn't possible, but it isn't actually true by any means, just a very plausible theory.

I don't disagree with it being possible, just that it's ironclad, that's all.

 

[Arcadenik]

The problem with that is that it barely had anything new. It was far from a Reboot as is.

It's just a cool remake and nothing more.

Also, Star Fox Command is the last game in the current storyline. Remakes that do not rewrite the story does not count.

Mortal Kombat 9 is a legitimate reboot. Super Mario 64 DS, Ocarina of Time 3D, and Star Fox 64 3DS are not ones. We have a term for that; Non-Canon/Fun games.

So... Ocarina of Time 3D doesn't count now. Sheik out, Impa in!

 

[Starphoenix]

Limited roster space.

I do not think it is that big of a deal actually. It is not as though Sakurai will be adding that many new series into the next game that this will be an issue. Even though I am no fan of Krystal's there is no real reason that she should or could not be including alongside the other three. In some ways it makes sense.

 

[Shorts]

Man, do you warp reality. Pitiful.

The only people who are on your side right now is Arcade, Kuma, myself, and the rest of the people are disagreeing with you. Who's warping reality now?

And even originally, Arcade was cool with Kuma's roster.

 

[ChronoBound]

The only people who are on your side right now is Arcade, Kuma, myself, and the rest of the people are disagreeing with you. Who's warping reality now?

You said "everyone". Try again.

 

[Shorts]

You said "everyone". Try again.

"Japan hates Krystal"

I do not think it is that big of a deal actually. It is not as though Sakurai will be adding that many new series into the next game that this will be an issue. Even though I am no fan of Krystal's there is no real reason that she should or could not be including alongside the other three. In some ways it makes sense.

See? It's not just warped Shorts and Craycray Kuma.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

So... Ocarina of Time 3D doesn't count now. Sheik out, Impa in!

Funny. But you know what I meant. We're talking about new characters, not replacements.

Likewise, since when was relevancy an official factor?

Don't get me wrong, I can deal with cuts/priority/replacements, although there's only a select few I could care less about, and even though I would've rather had Plusle & Minun over Lucario, I sure as hell think Brawl's roster was topnotch overall. No change was needed, just adding the last 7 would've been fine. Hell, we even got a costume similar to Dixie's within Diddy's stuff. So she clearly wasn't forgotten.