New Smash Bros for WiiU

[Shorts]

Well even if "Toon Sheik" where infact a Toon Sheik, she was not even put into the game probably BECAUSE THERE IS NO TOON SHEIK. And if it got planned, we would've seen a thropy. Also, there is no Wind Waker nor Toon Sheik model. Hyrule Hystorica again.

Explain what her trophy data would be like again then please?

How does that even matter? She was planned. Also, we know that Roy was planned as well, but we see no Roy trophy? Not having a trophy doesn't change anything.

And Kuma, I know. Such a terrible choice.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Wait, i don't understand. If the code says 'toon sheik', why are you saying it wasn't planned? I'm kinda confused?

Maybe planned, but a stupid idea thus scrapped. Much like a Waluigi Assist Thropy. You know the like ; bad, bad, hung over, mixing strong booze with mushrooms decisions.

If Toon Sheik where to be, she was probably scrapped just because of BEING a Toon Sheik. There IS NO TOON SHEIK. There would've been infact, no Toon Sheik. If they where to continue with this, and actually consider "Toon Sheik", she'd be Tetra. There is no design from Sheik that isn't OOT, or the unused TP one, and that's what Sheik HERSELF got lucky with the first place.

The closest thing to an actualy Toon Sheik is the actual Skyward Sword Impa. So, wanna consider having a Toon Sheik again for Smash 4? Be my guest.

How does that even matter? She was planned. Also, we know that Roy was planned as well, but we see no Roy trophy? Not having a trophy doesn't change anything.

And Kuma, I know. Such a terrible choice.

No, I meant: what would her trophy be like if she has no appearances. Wanna just have a trophy with no text?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

There is no Giga Bowser outside of Smash. He's playable in Brawl. That makes your point completely invalid.

Don't compare Toon Sheik to Impa. Not even one in the same. You're gasping at more straws.

And Waluigi is one of the better AT's as is.

 

[Deleted member]

And how does that justify a Toon Sheik over the actual Tetra? Wouldn't they make a Toon Temple of Time for her then?

Because Toon Link represents the Toon games and it's just as likely that Tetra's ship was added for the purpose of representing the Toon games.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Because Toon Link represents the Toon games and it's just as likely that Tetra's ship was added for the purpose of representing the Toon games.

If we had Toon Link with Tetra it;d be proper representation. Sure, it's Toon Link's stage, no doubt. Fact remains, it's Tetra's ship.

There is no Giga Bowser outside of Smash. He's playable in Brawl. That makes your point completely invalid.

Don't compare Toon Sheik to Impa. Not even one in the same. You're gasping at more straws.

And Waluigi is one of the better AT's as is.

Block me again please.

 

[Oasis_S]

No, I meant: what would her trophy be like if she has no appearances. Wanna just have a trophy with no text?

The opening line of her trophy probably would have been: "Toon Sheik did not appear in The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker, but she appears in Smash nonetheless." Followed by pointing out the subtle differences between the two Sheiks.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

No, I'm not going to block you. There is no reference Sakurai has made to Impa, besides a sticker at best. SS might get him more interested, but then I could see an AT or regular Trophy. If she continues to be more notable, maybe we could see her in 5. But I just can't see how she's likely according to his criteria.

 

[Big-Cat]

What do you guys think of counter attacks? I'm not talking like Marth's. I'm talking about an extra bonus of damage on counter attacks and some additional properties for certain moves for stuffing the opponent's attack.

 

[SmashChu]

I'm not gonna budge on Toon Sheik. Someone ask Sakurai please? :/

If there was a Toon Sheik, why would they choose Tetra's Pirate Ship over all choices? What would her trophy data be like? Appeared in which games..? NONE? Trophy description: Zelda used to be a pirate, but we prefer unexcisting ninjas?

Two things
1)It's Toon Link's stage. It's just a stage from Wind Waker. Nothing more to get out of it.
2)If Toon Sheik was going to be a character without a game, it should tell you how important the identity between the two is.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Maybe planned, but a stupid idea thus scrapped. Much like a Waluigi Assist Thropy. You know the like ; bad, bad, hung over, mixing strong booze with mushrooms decisions.

If Toon Sheik where to be, she was probably scrapped just because of BEING a Toon Sheik. There IS NO TOON SHEIK. There would've been infact, no Toon Sheik. If they where to continue with this, and actually consider "Toon Sheik", she'd be Tetra. There is no design from Sheik that isn't OOT, or the unused TP one, and that's what Sheik HERSELF got lucky with the first place.

The closest thing to an actualy Toon Sheik is the actual Skyward Sword Impa. So, wanna consider having a Toon Sheik again for Smash 4? Be my guest.



No, I meant: what would her trophy be like if she has no appearances. Wanna just have a trophy with no text?

Giga Bowser, Master Hand, Crazy Hand, all of the origial bosses, the Subspace enemies, the Wire Frames, the Alloys, the Beam Sword, Stopwatch, Bumper, Trophy Stand, Assist Trophy, Stickers, Smoke Ball, Smash Ball, and all of the Final Smash trophies disagree. Your points have no merit.

 

[Deleted member]

If we had Toon Link with Tetra it;d be proper representation. Sure, it's Toon Link's stage, no doubt. Fact remains, it's Tetra's ship.

Tetra's ship represent the Celda games well enough by Toon Link. It does not need Tetra for it to be proper representation.

Oh and just because a franchise gets a stage that a character has doesn't mean said character gets in. We got Tetra's ship yet only Toon Link showed up and there's no evidence Tetra was planned. Likewise, Animal Crossing got a stage and we all know that it was never planned.

 

[---]

I'd think it would be better just to ignor that data.

IMO the only Forbidden 7 members that matter would be Mewtwo, Roy, and Dixie, as they have the most data and Sakurai has admitted that he originally planned the latter.

@Kuma: I guess, I'm trying to do something like that with my Little Mac moveset. Cross Counter!

 

[Deleted member]

New topic since I'm tired of arguing against Impa replacing Sheik.[COLLAPSE=Kid Icarus and Kirby from ToiseofChoice]Toise's Super Money Pick:
Pit


That's right.

----

Kid Icarus in general:

First thing to mention is the lack of MK or Dedede in Melee and the inclusion of both in Brawl. Sakurai said he didn't want to play favorites in 2001 while he was still in charge of Kirby. Chances are he wanted to get both in Brawl because A) theoretically, it might've been the last chance to include them in Smash (pretty sure he said exactly that, but I can't find the quote) and B) why not? Kirby's a great series.

Now, you could use the "last chance" argument technically for any character ever, or even just any Sakurai character ever. I'm gonna disagree based on the assumption that that kind of feeling would be reserved for characters/series he has a huge sentimental attachment to. And I'm also assuming he doesn't have nearly as much attachment to something he adopted in his 40's compared to his first creation as a teenager, the very thing that got his career started.

The last point I'd like to make is how hesitant Sakurai has been with including young, unproven series.* The youngest new series included in Smash was Pokemon (2-3 years old in 1998-99). Second youngest? Pikmin at 4-6 years (2005-07). Then Star Fox at 5-6, Kirby at 6-7, and so on (hey, here's a handy list). If we count Uprising as effectively starting the series, then we're talking about a newborn. Doesn't get more unproven than that, and I don't exactly have the highest hopes for this game either, but whatever.

* Yes, I'd label KI as young and unproven given how long ago the last game was released and how drastically different Uprising looks compared to the first two. One's personal take on this bit and the sentimentality thing will define their estimate on this series, so I kinda expect this thread to be about where everyone thinks the distinction lies.


**** The actual characters ****

Seems kinda arbitrary to pick any particular individual, so I'll just talk about what I likes and don't likes.

Palutena: Reminds me a little too much of Zelda, what with the robes and probably magicness. Wonder if she even does anything in Uprising?

Medusa: Sure, I guess. The only thing I'd really like and totally don't expect would be for her to shoot out little Castlevania Medusa heads. Probably not, huh?

Magnus: I like the idea of Man Icarus, but that's not what he is, right? Oh well.

The rest: Oh who cares. Maybe if the Grim Reaper was more like Death in Castlevania, but... you know, I really should just end it here instead of talking about Castlevania for a while.



----- B O N U S ! -----

While we're on the topic of Sakurai, and because I don't expect any real disagreements here:

Toise's Super Money Pick:
Kirby
Meta Knight
King Dedede


No effort going into an explanation, but feel free to query if you'd like.


----------------------------------------

This'll probably come up later, so here's Sakurai's response to a poll regarding favorite new characters from the E3 2006 trailer:

“Thank you all very much for your responses! It looks like people are split pretty evenly over which of the four new characters is their favorite. That’s good.

I was well aware that Pit was a popular character in both America and Japan. I tried as best I could to design this version of him in a way that reflected current tastes, so I’m happy to see him so well received.

The creator of Kid Icarus has even jokingly asked if he could make a spin-off using this Pit model.

As for Meta Knight, when I left my previous company I never thought I’d be laying a hand on this character again, let alone on Smash Bros.

Kirby is a character I designed when I was 19 years old, but I created Meta Knight when I was 22. I knew the character was popular in Japan, but last time around I held off and didn’t include him in the game. I wanted to put other people’s titles ahead of my own.

I put Zero Suit Samus in thinking I wanted to include more characters from the popular Metroid series. Also, since Smash Bros. has few female characters, I was quite happy to include her.

I bet you were all surprised by the appearance of Snake!

Finally we’ve gotten over the wall that separates different game makers, but of course this was due to the cooperation of many different people. Now, Smash Snake is fighting furiously and sneaking before my very eyes.

Wario seems to be the only character who isn’t very popular. Is it bad I included him? No, I don’t think that’s the case. You can all look forward to his unprecedented “contributions.”

Thank you all very much for voting. I’m sure there are a lot of different expectations out there, but I’ll work to create something that everyone will enjoy.”[/COLLAPSE]Maybe I'll make a more fleshed-out response, but I will point out this; if Zelda, who had next to no fighting experience pre-Melee can get in, so can Palutena. Both are extremely important to their respective series and in Japan, Kid Icarus is called "Palutena's Mirror" and Kid Icarus: Uprising is called "Palutena's Mirror: Uprising".

 

[Big-Cat]

2)If Toon Sheik was going to be a character without a game, it should tell you how important the identity between the two is.

To Sakurai.

@Kuma: I guess, I'm trying to do something like that with my Little Mac moveset. Cross Counter!

Imagine him having the swerving move like Steve and using that to setup counters. Really makes him an in-your-face character.

 

[yani]

To Sakurai.

Yeah.. not like he's making the game or anything

 

[Deleted member]

Anyone has something to say about Kid Icarus/Kirby?

 

[Diddy Kong]

I'd think it would be better just to ignor that data.

IMO the only Forbidden 7 members that matter would be Mewtwo, Roy, and Dixie, as they have the most data and Sakurai has admitted that he originally planned the latter.

@Kuma: I guess, I'm trying to add something similar to my Little Mac moveset.

Yes please, it seems it gone to the heads of these people that there would actually be a Toon Sheik. It wasn't scrapped for no reason in the first place. And if they where to revive the idea, they'd look at recent Toon, and / or cel shaded Zelda games wouldn't they? Are we gonna have a

Spoiler

goddess

_sheik next?

Impa is the choice for anything inspired for Zelda as a transformation when based on Skyward Sword. As she is a legitimate choice to have a new character, yet remain an old playstyle, which could also have possibilities to scrap the idea and add both in separate.

Toon Sheik is infact the thing gasping at straws, as is Sheik's "Smash importance". There just wasn't a good replacement for Brawl for her, now there is. Accepting that it's a possibility is the least that could do. You don't have to agree with it, or think it's likely at all. It's just a possibility, and I personally think it's extremely likely, and I want it to happen.

Why?

Cause Sheik infact is the only character that has no mayor role from ALL Smash characters in Brawl. Want me to explain why each individual Brawl character is more worthy than her? I'd gladly do so... Counting all the Pokémon as separate characters to, as well as discussing cut Melee characters. Gimme the word, and paragraphs will be typed out.

 

[Oasis_S]

Anyone has something to say about Kid Icarus/Kirby?

A little BIRDY told me Palutena is a MIGHTY bad choice.

 

[---]

Imagine him having the swerving move like Steve and using that to setup counters. Really makes him an in-your-face character.

Steve? Is he from Tekken or something? (forgive my lack of fighting game knowledge )

 

[Deleted member]

A little BIRDY told me Palutena is a MIGHTY bad choice.

...not sure why. Zelda didn't fight pre-Melee and she got in, plus Kid Icarus over Japan is called "Palutena's Mirror".

 

[Big-Cat]

Steve? Is he from Tekken or something? (forgive my lack of fighting game knowledge )

Yes. He'll swerve his upper body to dodge attacks and then attack from there.

 

[Shorts]

Anyone has something to say about my topic?

I would definitely agree with him that most people expect TOO much from this series.

I can't say that we WON'T, but I think some people are betting too hard on a game I don't even think is going to be that great.

How many people hear even want this game?

Uhm, I would like to note that I DO, have Palutena on my personal bet, just because I want SOME say in the series.

 

[Metal Overlord]

**** a new Star Fox, we need a new F-Zero before anything

 

[ChronoBound]

Anyone has something to say about Kid Icarus/Kirby?

My thoughts are the same as your's. I am personally going to wait until Uprising is released before I put a final stamp in regards to what characters Kid Icarus Uprising will get, but right now I definitely expecting one.

As to Kirby, I don't think it will get a newcomer, but if there was one, it would definitely be Waddle Dee (Bandanna Dee). Assuming he continues to have major roles in Kirby games, he will probably be in Smash 5.

 

[yani]

Cause Sheik infact is the only character that has no mayor role from ALL Smash characters in Brawl. Want me to explain why each individual Brawl character is more worthy than her? I'd gladly do so... Counting all the Pokémon as separate characters to, as well as discussing cut Melee characters. Gimme the word, and paragraphs will be typed out.

Just for lulz. Do Dr. Mario, and no "he reps the puzzle series" nonsense.

 

[Pachinkosam]

**** a new Star Fox, we need a new F-Zero before anything

i know right :D

 

[Luco]

Anyone has something to say about Kid Icarus/Kirby?

Hehehe, looks like we can't interrupt this one, SSBF. We should probably just sit back and wait till it's over before we start said topic. As for that, well, there are the retro games, and you can't really say uprising is the start, mainly because Pit was in brawl, which proves that the old retro game was enough to make impact. I can see it, but... I dunno, it seems recent Kid Icarus games (well, game) have/has been successful, so it's possible that the next Kid Icarus game will be successful enough to induce more Kid Icarus characters.

But on the other hand, there are series which have gained no new characters from previous games, so it's entirely possible that he stays by himself.

Hrmmm....

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I'd rather talk about F-Zero.

So, we've got Black Shadow, Pico, Jody Summers, Samurai Goroh, who else is fairly notable?

 

[ChronoBound]

**** a new Star Fox, we need a new F-Zero before anything

I want a new F-Zero so much. The last one we got was released in 2004. The series is definitely overdue for a new installment, and has an excellent track record in terms of quality.

 

[yani]

We're most likely getting at least one KI rep. No new Kirby rep wouldn't surprise me though.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I'd rather talk about F-Zero.

So, we've got Black Shadow, Pico, Jody Summers, Samurai Goroh, who else is fairly notable?

Blood Falcon? As it was C.Falcon's red costume.

I'm not knowlegdable on F-Zero anyway so.

 

[Oasis_S]

Since Sakurai is the KIRBY MAN, and HE never really gave much attention to Waddle Dee HIMSELF, wouldn't he continue NOT seeing Waddle Dee as MUCH OF A PICK? Being his series and all, he'll probably be biased with it? I don't think he would care much for Waddle Dee unless he just suddenly became OVERWHELMINGLY POPULAR, which is a ridiculous thought.


Tryphen, I said BIRDY and MIGHTY in the same sentence and you didn't notice. Some fan YOU are.

 

[---]

Yes. He'll swerve his upper body to dodge attacks and then attack from there.

Alright I'll take a look at some Tekken or STxT vids.

Still I would like to see how you would tackle a Little Mac moveset yourself, it's just seems to be a perfect fit for you to do. lol

@Oasis: I don't think I really need to respond to that.

 

[ChronoBound]

I'd rather talk about F-Zero.

So, we've got Black Shadow, Pico, Jody Summers, Samurai Goroh, who else is fairly notable?

There is Dr. Stewart (another one of the four original pilots), however, he does not have a fighting background

Pretty much the important characters for F-Zero are:
Captain Falcon
Black Shadow
Samurai Goroh
Pico
Jody Summer
Dr. Stewart

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Blood Falcon? As it was C.Falcon's red costume.

I'm not knowlegdable on F-Zero anyway so.

He's already a costume, minus the spikes and face. Likewise, we don't need him as a clone. Ganondorf is generally better since he has a different metagame. Not that he shouldn't be the same.

Also, bw, for people suggesting to change Link's B Moves. Sakurai even stated that his plan is for Toon Link/Young Link to share the same B Moves. So... know that they won't be different outside of A moves and maybe the Final Smash.

^ And John Tanaka. Also, there's James McCloud.

 

[GiantBreadbug]

This Sheimpa nonsense is driving me ****ing insane.

Here's something: I was playing on Pokemon Stadium 2 today, and I was trying to decipher what characters were in the audience (and I was just looking around at the background). My best guess is that they just generated some generic, blurry people.

It got me thinking about a couple things:

1) In SSB4 (the Wii U version, at least), we'll finally have a machine with enough processing power to generate actual audiences in the backgrounds of stages, not just two-dimensional blurs. (Yay!)

2) What cities are these stadiums in? Personally, I like to think that Pokemon Staduim 1 is in Goldenrod City, and Pokemon Stadium 2 is in a super metropolitan version of Mauville City, or perhaps Lilycove.. Goldenrod is really the only city big enough to host a stadium in 2nd gen (the most recent gen as of Melee), and those Mauville/Lilycove are the biggish cities of 3rd gen (Mauville had the casino, Lilycove had the department store). I dunno, I like to think that whenever I star KO someone on Stadium 1, they are impaled on the Radio Tower.

EDIT: And by the time I got this posted, you gentlemen already started talking about F-Zero. Carry on, then.

 

[Deleted member]

And Ryo Sazuki/Rick Wheeler. Unless him debuting in the anime makes him somehow inelligible (despite that last two F-Zero titles being of the anime continuity).

 

[Deleted member]

@ChronoBound: Bandanna Dee is an interesting choice I will admit, but like you, I'd rather wait for a fifth game until more worthy characters join the fray before I throw in my support for Bandanna Dee (and that depends on if we get him to be static). Which also explains why I don't actively support characters like Geno. I like him and wouldn't mind him getting in, but this is not his time yet (I'd rather wait until Toad, Paper Mario, and maybe Bowser Jr. gets in before I consider seriously supporting him).

I would definitely agree with him that most people expect TOO much from this series.

I can't say that we WON'T, but I think some people are betting too hard on a game I don't even think is going to be that great.

How many people hear even want this game?

Uhm, I would like to note that I DO, have Palutena on my personal bet, just because I want SOME say in the series.

I would love to have the game. Sadly, I don't have the money for Kid Icarus: Uprising, due to having to save money for a Wii-U and this game. Not to mention, other RL stuffs.

But I do, however, still fully expect a second Kid Icarus rep and given Palutena's importance to the series, she is the best choice (thought Medusa is also decent).

**** a new Star Fox, we need a new F-Zero before anything

I still really want a new Star Fox, but it's slightly below an F-zero for a series I want to revive. If a F-zero game is announced, I will make sure to get it at all cost.

I'd rather talk about F-Zero.

So, we've got Black Shadow, Pico, Jody Summers, Samurai Goroh, who else is fairly notable?

If you want to stretch it, Deathborn and Dr. Steward.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Just for lulz. Do Dr. Mario, and no "he reps the puzzle series" nonsense.

For Doctor Mario, and the reasons why I consider him to be at least a bit more acceptable to have than Sheik at this point (note: not at the time of Melee, but as a Smash 4 inclusion) is that Dr.Mario is an own game series which to this date, and still features him as a main character. He might not be unique to Mario in anyway really, but he could add in as a 6th inclusion to the roster to make Mario have more representatives.

Note that I do not want him in however.

 

[yani]

This Sheimpa nonsense is driving me ****ing insane.

Here's something: I was playing on Pokemon Stadium 2 today, and I was trying to decipher what characters were in the audience (and I was just looking around at the background). My best guess is that they just generated some generic, blurry people.

It got me thinking about a couple things:

1) In SSB4 (the Wii U version, at least), we'll finally have a machine with enough processing power to generate actual audiences in the backgrounds of stages, not just two-dimensional blurs. (Yay!)

2) What cities are these stadiums in? Personally, I like to think that Pokemon Staduim 1 is in Goldenrod City, and Pokemon Stadium 2 is in a super metropolitan version of Mauville City, or perhaps Lilycove.. Goldenrod is really the only city big enough to host a stadium in 2nd gen (the most recent gen as of Melee), and those Mauville/Lilycove are the biggish cities of 3rd gen (Mauville had the casino, Lilycove had the department store). I dunno, I like to think that whenever I star KO someone on Stadium 1, they are impaled on the Radio Tower.

EDIT: And by the time I got this posted, you gentlemen already started talking about F-Zero. Carry on, then.

I don't believe Gen 2 was out when Pokemon Stadium 1 was released, and I don't believe Gen 3 was out when Pokemon Stadium 2 was released