New Smash Bros for WiiU

[Deleted member]

@Diddy Kong: Well within the realm of possibility considering that Thracia 766 and Path of Radiance were the two worst selling Fire Emblem games in Japan and sold under 200K.

 

[ChronoBound]

Mii always seems to have a lot of animosity from Smash fans online. The Miis are a popular feature among casual fans though. Hmmm, if I cut the Mii, perhaps I would put in Little Mac.

Also, any other thoughts in regards to whether Shulk should be dropped for Lip?

Little Mac's spot would go where Mii is, and Lip would go where Shulk is.

 

[nLiM8d]

Shulk hasn't any content available to smash as Lip does.

Lip already has a foot in the door.

 

[Deleted member]

Shulk hasn't any content available to smash as Lip does.

Lip already has a foot in the door.

That's because he didn't EXIST in Melee and Brawl.

@SSBF: God dammit, your avatar is making me want to watch the First Movie again.

 

[nLiM8d]

Ergo you agree

 

[Bowserlick]

I suspect Sakurai will want to add one or his Kid Icarus characters. He complained about Nintendo having a lack of characters. However, I doubt Palutena will make the cut. Pit represents the light and, i think, eve uses weapons given to him by the goddess. Sounds like too much overlap.

Medusa would be awesome. I hope there is not a size issue that would keep Sakurai from adding in a different character than the current cast.

Magus and Lord Gaol might be possibilities depending on their role in the game. I do not know enough information.

 

[ChronoBound]

I thought of something called the Fighting Mii team. Basically you fight Miis of the entire Smash 4 development team.

Also, perhaps people's Miis could be incorporated into the background for a Wuhu Island stage. However, it does not change the fact that casuals may like to use their Miis in this game, though they really are unpopular among Western Smash fans as a possible character choice.

Also, even if Chrome's game ends up selling more than even Monsho no Nazo, I hate the idea of cuts, and would strive to protect Brawl's roster if I was directing. If Chrome desperately needed to be in, I would simply make him a costume of Ike.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Chrome's game looks promising cause it has the graphical thing going for it. FE has been looking ****ty for a long time after all. Also, duo battles and more emphasisys on skills (and personal ones) do look to me the series is getting an increase in popularity (even outside of the usual fans) after this game. Don't see how that wouldn't make Chrome wanted. Just looking in a crystal ball here now, but it's been suprisingly accurate before.

Also it adding a lot of things like monsters and skills, stuff that made the other games good. Makes me thing this game was carefully planned as the series' second revival. It already looking better than a Wii game certainly will help with this.

 

[Deleted member]

Ergo you agree

Agree on what?

 

[Deleted member]

Mii always seems to have a lot of animosity from Smash fans online. The Miis are a popular feature among casual fans though. Hmmm, if I cut the Mii, perhaps I would put in Little Mac.

Also, any other thoughts in regards to whether Shulk should be dropped for Lip?

Little Mac's spot would go where Mii is, and Lip would go where Shulk is.

Keep the Mii's. They are an iconic part of Nintendo and will stay with them. They're not the most interesting, but they are highly deserving. Rather, cut Paper Mario for Little Mac.

I would also cut Shulk for Lip. We will probably get a new retroish franchise and I think it's either Lip or Takamaru.

 

[Shorts]

I was going to make a "48" slot roster, but I thought making a "COMPLETE" roster would be more fun, which is going to take a while. In the meantime, I'll post my old roster. I still stand by all the decisions, although I would be willing to make a few minor changes.

 

[nLiM8d]

Think about it for a moment: what did he say that I could agree to?

 

[Starphoenix]

I thought of something called the Fighting Mii team. Basically you fight Miis of the entire Smash 4 development team.

In some very bizarre way all of those jokes about Miyamoto and Sakurai being playable will have come true. Sort of.

 

[---]

@Chrono: Good roster overall, my only problem is with Miis because of what Sakurai said about them in Brawl.

Fighting Mii team sounds interesting though.

 

[Deleted member]

Chrome's game looks promising cause it has the graphical thing going for it. FE has been looking ****ty for a long time after all. Also, duo battles and more emphasisys on skills (and personal ones) do look to me the series is getting an increase in popularity (even outside of the usual fans) after this game. Don't see how that wouldn't make Chrome wanted. Just looking in a crystal ball here now, but it's been suprisingly accurate before.

Yes, because graphics ALWAYS make a game good. [/sarcasm]

A game can have **** gameplay, but as long as it LOOKS good, it doesn't matter. [/sarcasm]

It's easy to infer how well a game will do based on what looks good and interesting, as games have never done poorly when they look good and interesting. [/sarcasm]

In summation, to infer that Chrome's game will do good at this point in time is implying you can see the future. Which you can't.
And no, I'm not saying it's going to do bad. I'm saying it's too early to tell anything.

 

[ChronoBound]

In some very bizarre way all of those jokes about Miyamoto and Sakurai being playable will have come true. Sort of.

The final boss is a giant Mii of Sakurai with a crown on his head that constantly *laughs whenever you get clobbered by his Mii minions. He summons his cat as his ultimate attack, who carries you off like a toy mouse.

 

[Deleted member]

Think about it for a moment: what did he say that I could agree to?

What, that Lip already has some stuff in Smash? That's a no-brainer.

If it's to "Lip will get in before Shulk" I'm afraid I'm going to have to disagree.

 

[ChronoBound]

I want to see here a poll in regards two changes on my roster:

1. Mii or Little Mac?
2. Shulk or Lip?

 

[Deleted member]

With the two decisions, I would say Little Mac and Lip.

 

[nLiM8d]

What, that Lip already has some stuff in Smash? That's a no-brainer.

If it's to "Lip will get in before Shulk" I'm afraid I'm going to have to disagree.

Such discussions (the latter) don't matter much to me. I'd prefer that any assumptions or inferences over such don't confuse what I'm actually mentioning.

That sort of thing caused Chrono over here to ignore my statements, which is sad in itself.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Re-occuring is pretty important. Why else would Marth and Ike make it over other characters from the same franchise? And why else are the first generation of Pokémon so present in Brawl? Re-occurance gives a character more oppertunities to grow into the fans. Sheik is nostaliga at best. And so many characters (retro ones) can do that better than her.

Yeah, funny, because it's not on that criteria list, now is it? You're wrong there.

And I'll talk to you when Sheik is gone from Smash, and people will simply forget about her. They would think: Oh Zelda has other abilities now, it's not so bad.

Cutting Sheik is much easier than any other character cause she's an EXTENTION or -meant to be one- of another character. Zelda herself as a character has moved from her role in Ocarina of Time. It should be repersented in Smash.

She's the worst cut, since you're cutting what makes Zelda unique. That's like taking away Nana in the Ice Climbers. It doesn't work. Zelda and Sheik have unique abilities, and how they work together is what makes them different.

The B moves in general make the characters unique from others most of the time. So I say it's a bigger influence than you think. Ike and Roy's B move are 80% the same, and Ike could NEVER create flames out of his sword. He had lots of abilities to use instead of a Roy rip off, but I guess they wanted Roy's style in there somewhere.

More like 50% at BEST. Counter is the same. Their B is kind of similar, but has different properties outside of Fire. They don't even send anybody in the same direction. One sends them to the side, the other sends them up. Aether is actually a lot like Final Cutter, and that's it. Both Forward B's are completely different. The best you can argue is that he's what Roy could've been. But he's not a Roy ripoff. At all.

Lucario is a humanoid Pokemon similar how Mewtwo is. He also covers weaknesses Mewtwo obviously had as in, light frame tall height, and very bad hitboxes and range. Adding 1 + 1 here, it doesn't make sence to me having 2 characters so similar to the 2 ones from the exact same series who are removed.

And they were both prepared to be playable, which means he didn't replace him. None of that matters as long as Mewtwo was going to be in. You could argue they have similarities. But that's it.

Subsititues are a good work for this perhaps yeah. But it makes it sounds so good. It's not good at all.

Substitutes are also nothing like the original person as well. At best, they have some similarities. But that's it.

What about the part you left out that they didn't use the models for anything else? Why did Rayquaza had a role as a boss, while Mewtwo could've done it? Why do we have a Lyn AT, while it could be Roy? Why is there no Roy throphy at all? Why is Mewtwo's throphy so ****ty?

Remind me why Mewtwo should've been a boss instead of playable? Or that Rayquaza ever had a ghost of a chance being playable. Only boss that might've been was Ridley, since he was originally an AT. Lyn herself is not Roy, she's different FE Rep. They're not even comparable. Likewise, Roy or Lyn could get into SSB4 anyway.

If they where considered, at least they would've had a model. And if they had a model, they would've used it.

Those were all files of characters that were going to be played as. Those are CHARACTER files. Everybody else is playable. Of course they were considered. All of them. Some got farther than others. Time Constraints are the ONLY reason they didn't all get in. Only two were replaced anyway, although Toon Link is pretty much a spiritual successor to Young Link. Pichu didn't even get that. :/

You emphasise to much on the character data. Has there ever been enough effidence HOW MUCH this data was exactly? Just being there doesn't count. Especially if you yourself consider Toad far more likely and important than Dixie, who had data in it as well. You accuse me of being biased, yet overlook what you do yourself?

Toad is more important in the MARIO series. Not in Smash. Dixie is clearly more important in there. Did you even read what the hell I said?

Different overall Up Smash, and Down Smash for Pichu. Falco had the exact same moves as Fox, they just emphasises on making Falco more aerial based and play according the style of Fox in 64 Smash. But it's silly, as Falco is of coarse a better character than Pichu. They have a lot to choose from in Pichu's stead, not so much for Falco.

And yet they played completely differently. Falco was more unique because he wasn't just a remake of Fox like Pichu was in general. He even looks almost like Pikachu. Fox and Falco are not the same in their own games.

I'm surprised she didn't play the harp in it. >_>
It's a silly arguement to discuss her relevance on, and something about this is telling me your out of arguements positive for Sheik.

Nobody cares about relevance. Especially since it is... shocker, not relevance to this discussion. Irony, isn't it? Maybe she is to Smash, but even then, that doesn't matter. Her popularity far outdwarfs Impa still.

Doubt they'd give Impa as much of a role if they where not planning to revive her from this point on. But yeah, time will tell. As of now, I say Impa definitely has the upper hand in getting the spot for Smash.

Baseless theory. She has no chance of getting in as of right now. You have nothing to even base this on. Since it's based upon a new game, which Sakurai clearly doesn't CARE about, you're just hating on Sheik instead for not being relevant. Nothing more. We don't even have to defend her. Do you know why? Because you have given no proof that she should leave.

Mewtwo had 2 movies, and everyone and his dog knew how to get him eventually in the original games. Mewtwo has much more of a fan base than Sheik, most of it coming from WITHOUT the Smash-fans. And that's not saying he's not immensively popular amongst Smashers. Cause he is.

Why do you think he got in Melee? He's in the character data for Brawl, so he does exist in the game. Remind where Impa is?

And as you say yourself, it makes sence to have the new character playable before the old. Sheik is not only old, she's almost ancient. Dusty even. Ocarina of Time hasn't even aged that well. :/ What is the damn point of keeping Sheik?

You're taking it out of context. That only applies for TRULY NEW characters. Like Zoroark. Not a person who doesn't even have a realistic chance of replacing a major veteran. Which I'll keep specifying till you realize how illogical you sound.

She can create barriers (amongst things) that alone is unique to everything that has been done in Smash before.

Not that it mathers, cause Sheik's moveset is completely made up as well. They even made up the transforming part; Sheik doesn't just turn into Zelda mid battles in OoT. She would've had a much easier time escaping the colapsing castle if she did.

So was Falcon's, R.O.B.'s, and Olimar's. Your point holds no water here. It doesn't matter if it's made up or not. As long as it works.

Because a character gets into the game at first because of what again? Please tell me why Zelda / Sheik was included?

Sheik was first included because she was very easy to make a moveset for. Zelda got put in as well since she's kind of the main character. You know, because she's the damn princess. Sheik is her true fighting form.

So priority was given to other characters. Which is exactly why Sheik shouldn't make it.

Once again, why would Impa be even considered? Someone who's pretty much the same as Sheik? And name a single two-time veteran to be taken out. You can't. Sheik's there to stay. Only way Sheik's leave is if Zelda'll leave two. They're part of the same person. Zero Suit Samus ain't leaving either. Atleast PT can be changed around, since all of his Pokemon are different people in general.

And you hold unto that "proof" that I'm wrong for so much you overlook yourself, and come up with the same old 'veterans shouldn't be cut' and 'Sheik is popular' all over again.

You are wrong because both are correct points that you can't disprove whatsoever. Two-Time veterans have no chance of being cut anymore. If that were the case, Jigglypuff would have been. Once you've been in two, you're going to be in them all.

Ness was almost cut for Lucas in Melee. How about that?
Many said if Brawl would've been pushed to earlier release date, Jigglypuff wouldn't probably make it (perhaps along with Toon Link and Wolf) so that's a REAL old time veteran being cut. How would you explain this?

First, nobody knows if Jigglypuff was going to be cut. Second, Ness DIDN'T get cut, actually proving my point right. None of the original 12 will ever leave. Nor are two-time veterans. You're fighting a losing battle here. The only option that would not piss off fans is to have Impa in as well. Since you're clear that she can be unique, there's no reason to replace Sheik in the first place.

If Meowth happens to be extremely much requested why not? Why wouldn't they give priority to develop the more popular character first to make sure it's in? Not saying Meowth is likely... But still.

Sure, he could replace PT or take priority over him. Like they took priority over the Forbidden 7. Only legit replaced characters were still one-timers called Young Link and Pichu. Both the young versions, oddly enough.

Still doesn't mean Sheik isn't still the most irrelevant, unimportant, undeserving character in Brawl. Not even subjective. I'd argue R.O.B and the Ice Climbers are better candidates than her any time of the day.

Funny, since you can only argue that for the Forbidden 7 since they ididn't made it in. Only ones who you could even call that, since hey... they didn't get in. All of them are relevant to Smash as of right now. Until cuts are announced, you have no proof of this, and you purposely just annoying people here.

Doubt it.

Yeah, they're going to totally cut the more popular character for a less popular one. Makes total sense. Do you even hear yourself here? Seriously. Your logic is of a pure Troll.

Point is, she wasn't even much of a ninja in OoT. That part was made up. My part about playing the harp was sacrasm btw, it's the only thing she actually does in Ocarina of Time. Which makes me come to the point: have you been playing Zelda games actually?

So she totally didn't use a ninja-vanishing technique? Ninjas play instruments too. I've played them all, btw. But what does this have to do with Smash, where she is a Ninja, a very popular class, btw. I'd like to see if you had a point, but it seems you're just mad because she's more important to Smash than someone who's never been above a Trophy or Sticker at best.

Also, people wanted Zelda separate since the beginning basically. Sheik ALWAYS overshadowed Zelda, which is not what the developers wanted anyway. I doubt that Sheik will get her own spot in Smash 4, but I doubt her style would be forgotten either. Here, Impa makes perfect sence to have. Even if they in the end decide to couple her with Zelda after all. All makes sence once Skyward Sword hits the credit rolls.

Sounds like people want Sheik to stay in here. They can have their slots, although you can choose which one to start at anyway. Hell, they could rotate the box. They're both separate playable characters anyway. Sheik is more popular because she's better. And it doesn't much matter in this case. They wanted a character that capitalizes on two-in-one via transformations. They expanded that with PT. Impa and Zelda aren't even the same person. It would be actually pretty dumb to transformer into eachother. Sheik won't leave for a clone.

In apperance yes. But her moves are all made up. Could be anyone doing the same. Just look at Fox / Falco / Wolf and Captain Falcon / Ganondorf. Most of these 'made up' fighters with made up moves have clones in the game. They could easily do the same thing again with Sheik, except cutting Sheik and leaving the "clone".

Who cares if they're made up. And why cut an original character for a new clone of them. It hasn't even been done in Smash ever, so why would they now? Just have them both.

You just refuse to add up all these arguements togheter. And I'm too lazy to list them all, cause I'm using them to defend Impa in the first place. They get lost during the process and frankly, I have other things on my mind. Might list all of my arguements later if I bother to care.

Moveset is still coming tomorrow though.

Because none of them are relevant to what we care about. Everything is towards Sheik instead.

1. The character's inclusion must make people want to play the game.
-Sheik does that already. People want to play it because she's awesome. It also helps she's more popular than Impa.
2. The character must be unique.
-Impa, with the way you keep sprouting on, would be a clone. Thus, it doesn't apply.
3. The character must fit into the style of Super Smash Bros.
-Impa could, but Sheik already does.
4. They must contribute to the game balance.
-The fact that you have to switch between the two girls is their balancing factor. Albeit, they're kind of weak, but that's how they were meant to be.

Impa fits none of the criteria. 1, maybe at BEST. 2, not really. She's no different from Sheik in the first place. 3, anybody could. Including Snake. 4, who knows, maybe. But you haven't shown anything related to that. Everything still points towards Sheik.

 

[Deleted member]

I want to see here a poll in regards two changes on my roster:

1. Mii or Little Mac?
2. Shulk or Lip?

I say Mac and Shulk.

 

[---]

Little Mac.

Shulk or Lip, either one is fine by me.

 

[Shorts]

Mii > Little Mac

Reasoning: They're the freaking Mii's. Get over it. The third best selling series Nintendo has.

Shulk > Lip

No reasoning here, just like him more... I mean you could argue Shulk has worldwide appeal, and FOR NOW, has some hype behind him (Still will for a while). Besides, I usually pick Lip as a "Retro" choice, although having multiple retros i aok. Meh, still would rather see Shulk playable.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Yes, because graphics ALWAYS make a game good. [/sarcasm]

A game can have **** gameplay, but as long as it LOOKS good, it doesn't matter. [/sarcasm]

It's easy to infer how well a game will do based on what looks good and interesting, as games have never done poorly when they look good and interesting. [/sarcasm]

In summation, to infer that Chrome's game will do good at this point in time is implying you can see the future. Which you can't.
And no, I'm not saying it's going to do bad. I'm saying it's too early to tell anything.

It's been a complaint which was said by fans for a long time that FE is looking ****ty. This game is already looking better than Radiant Dawn, a Wii game. They easily could've gone with the Shadow Dragon style, but they didn't.

How did Sakurai know Roy's game was even gonna bomb when he added Roy in Melee? He didn't. Chrome is basically the new Roy, yet we wouldn't have to wait for his game to come out cause by the time you know Chrome is playable, there's a good chance many have played his game already.

That's why I jump the bandwagon early. I have nothing else I like about Chrome other than looking forward to play his game and that I kinda dig his design as of now.

I say Little Mac > Mii though. They Mii will have boxing style attacks anyway, as it's the only Wii game related to really fighting. I don't want that, I want the realer deal. Which would be Little Mac. Hopefully more Punch Out games will follow, cause I missed the Wii one.

 

[ChronoBound]

Roy's game did not bomb. It was the third highest selling game of the Fire Emblem series.

 

[Deleted member]

I started Day Three of Top 20 Roster Candidates.

It's been a complaint which was said by fans for a long time that FE is looking ****ty. This game is already looking better than Radiant Dawn, a Wii game. They easily could've gone with the Shadow Dragon style, but they didn't.

Graphics are the least important part of the game (next to getting good voice actors).

How did Sakurai know Roy's game was even gonna bomb when he added Roy in Melee? He didn't. Chrome is basically the new Roy, yet we wouldn't have to wait for his game to come out cause by the time you know Chrome is playable, there's a good chance many have played his game already.

Not only did Roy's game not bombed, Chrome can't be compared to as the next Roy. Chrome cannot get in as promotional material since his game would have since been out. Plus he's more similar to Ike and there are many similarities he shares with Ike.

That's why I jump the bandwagon early. I have nothing else I like about Chrome other than looking forward to play his game and that I kinda dig his design as of now.

Thank you for confirming my suspicion that the Chrome support is a bandwagon. Unless Krom can prove himself to be more then Ike 2.0 (which so far, he has not), it will be the most blatant form of "expected, but not wanted" character we have.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Which is still relatively good, as there are as of now 12 Fire Emblem games. Soon to be 13.

Point is, Chrome is gonna be the most recent lord. Roy was the most recent lord, and Ike was the most recent lord by the time they where added as playable characters. It's not really as much of a look into a crystal ball-kind of prediction in anyway. It's just adding points togheter.

 

[---]

Just let it go, we know nothing about Chrome as of now, save this discussion for the alliances come April/E3.

On a side note though, I found this Japanese poll rather interesting, I'd recommend taking a look at it.

 

[Steam]

the word lucario was used.

so I came

 

[Diddy Kong]

36. Donkey Kong Country 2 SNES

Not satisfied with this placement at all. Not being above Super Mario Kart, Wind Waker and Kirby's Air Ride doesn't make sence. Neither does Country 1 being better than it.

 

[---]

Well both Xenoblade and SS are in the top 10, I found that surprising.

That and FE4 finally beat FE3 in a poll. Ice Climbers placed rather high.

 

[Shorts]

Not happy where Pokemon is. Not at all.

If this list is going to be "Hip and Cool" by adding newer games to the top ten, add B&W. Best Pokemon storyline so far.

 

[Diddy Kong]

So did Mario Sunshine, Kirby's Air Ride and Wind Waker. What is the point in them being so high on it?

 

[Propeller Toad]

@Diddy Kong

I'm not sure if I'm right, but I do remember recalling that the Japanese had some bias for the Donkey Kong Country series. This could be the reason if it was indeed true. I do agree that the game should have placed higher.

 

[Diddy Kong]

There is indeed bias towards DKC that is unsatisfying to the DK fan to say the least... =/

And wtf is Magical Vacation GBA? And why is it on 32?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

That's why you don't jump a bandwagon earlier. Now I know you're trolling. I cannot stand it anymore. You're on ignore till you can actually prove a single thing I've said wrong. Which we both know you can't anymore. You're using stuff that doesn't exist as a poor excuse to hate on someone. Nobody is expecting you to like Shiek, but her presence is Smash is much greater than Impa could ever hope to be.

Seriously, grow up, Diddy Kong. Not a single person is even defending Impa. The thing is, I do like her, but I cannot see a single legitimate reason to replace a major veteran with a meh clone. There's a reason Raichu didn't get in over Pichu. Maybe because they didn't want to make a clone of him? He wasn't popular enough compared to everyone else. Young Link had nothing under his belt anymore. Toon Link had atleast two games by now. He also was a fair replacement, as it's the same overall character. Replacing Link with Link isn't a big deal. Let's note that OOT Link was also replaced by TP Link anyway. If you can call that a replacement. None of this happened to any other playable character, and your insistence that they did when everyone tells you otherwise means you should just give up. You're not even right.

 

[nLiM8d]

Just be happy that DKC ranked in the top 25. That's fantastic.

 

[Shorts]

Oh HyperFalcon, ignoring the world~ Some my find this mean, but it's okay! He has me on ignore. And Oasis, if IIRC.

 

[Deleted member]

Jumping the bandwagon is never good. Especially if you get your information wrong as you do.

And Roy was NOT the latest Lord, as he technically didn't exist yet. He was also not added for being the latest Lord, nor was Ike. So Chrome being added for being the latest Lord while stating that that's how Roy and Ike made it is a load of bull.

Ike was added by Intelligent System's suggestion when Sakurai wanted to add a newer Fire Emblem character. (After Melee and Roy's game, there were 4 FE titles). If he wanted to add the NEWEST Lord/Main character, he would've gone with Micaiah.

Roy was added to boost up the Roster and promote the upcoming Fire Emblem title for Japan.

Since Brawl, there has only been remakes of Marth's games, and a new FE coming out for 3DS. Not comparable to the jump from Melee to Brawl, which had 4 games to choose from outside of Roy's. (And notice, Sakurai used the 3rd of the 4, as Ike is in Path of Radiance style).

I have suspicion that the next FE character after Roy's return is Nabarl. He's Sakurai's favorite character, and has been featured and relevant due to the latest remakes.

As for Chrome, the only basis is "he's the new Lord". That's not going to cut it. He won't be promotional like Roy, as his game will be released before Sm4sh. And Sakurai has his favorite character up in the wings now.

Sakurai's bias heavily outweighs your bias.