New Smash Bros for WiiU

[Deleted member]

Toon Sheik and Tetra had separate name files, so no.

I don't recall seeing Tetra anywhere on the file.

 

[nLiM8d]

Any reason ROB should be cut?

Yutsi, for clarity you're looking at a different version of those codes. From what I recall the Japanese equivalent codenames are still present in the NTSC. Proven by my actual toying around with the code.

I got my copy first day, so perhaps there's a difference in releases.

 

[Deleted member]

Nope.
No reason for ANYONE to be cut.

 

[Big-Cat]

What characters might those be?

I can't say exactly, but I just have this feeling. And just for fun, here's a little roster if they were to "start over" by not considering veteran status.

[COLLAPSE="Hypothetical Reboot"]
Mario
Luigi
Peach
Bowser
Bowser Jr.
Toad

Link
Zelda
Impa (Has Sheik as alternate character.)
Ganondorf (Two-sword based, has Demise alt.)
Toon Link
Ghirahim

Samus
Zero Suit Samus (Separated)
Ridley

Donkey Kong
Diddy Kong
Dixie Kong
K. Rool

Kirby
Dedede-Daioh
Meta Knight

Fox
Falco
Krystal

Pikachu
Mewtwo
Meowth
Jigglypuff (Only because of her unique playstyle)
Pokemon Trainer (MvC styled)

Capt. Falcon
Samurai Goroh

Ness (Lucas alt. model)
Kumatora

Marth
Caeda/Sheeda
Ike

Ice Climbers
Mr. Game and Watch
Sukapon
Little Mac
Olimar
Lip
Muddy Mole
Saki
Isaac (MANLY VERSION)
Tom Nook
Shulk or Kanan (Not sure which)

Pit
Palutena
Medusa

Sonic
Snake
Megaman
[/COLLAPSE]
53 slots, 55 characters.

 

[Shorts]

Any reason ROB should be cut?

Only reason I brought him up is because in the SSB4DG when Toise was cruising a Japanese board, all the characters I mentioned were thought to have a chance at getting cut. No one here, save Asage, suggests him getting cut. But Asage also wants Jiggs and Olimar to be cut, soo... yeah.

ef_pra_mai.pac (Either Random Box or Random Box)

Fixed.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I don't recall seeing Tetra anywhere on the file.

ef_dixie.pac (Dixie Kong)
ef_dr_mario.pac (Dr. Mario)
ef_mewtwo.pac (Mewtwo)
ef_pra_mai.pac (Either Random Box or Plusle and Minun)
ef_roy.pac (Roy from Fire Emblem)
ef_toon_zelda.pac (Toon Zelda from Wind Waker)
ef_toon_sheik.pax (Tetra or Toon Sheik)

The name is Sheik there, not Tetra. It's a slight guess they mean Tetra, but the file does say Toon_SHeik.

 

[Starphoenix]

It is more like the Japanese fans are paranoid because Mewtwo and Roy were removed.

 

[nLiM8d]

Paranoia is a good word to describe the situation.

Btw Kuma, that's a solid chart. I dig that you still Champion Muddy Mole after all this time.

Fixed.

That one was actually pretty good.

 

[Deleted member]

ef_dixie.pac (Dixie Kong)
ef_dr_mario.pac (Dr. Mario)
ef_mewtwo.pac (Mewtwo)
ef_pra_mai.pac (Either Random Box or Plusle and Minun)
ef_roy.pac (Roy from Fire Emblem)
ef_toon_zelda.pac (Toon Zelda from Wind Waker)
ef_toon_sheik.pax (Tetra or Toon Sheik)

The name is Sheik there, not Tetra. It's a slight guess they mean Tetra, but the file does say Toon_SHeik.

I believe it was Tetra, given the fact that there is no such thing as a "Toon Sheik". While yes, there was no TP Sheik either, she's just labeled as "Sheik", so it was all fine.

And Tetra is, at least in my eyes, the Wind Waker version of Sheik.

 

[---]

Out of curiousity when was the last time we've even checked some of the Japanese boards? Forgive me if I sound like I'm nagging, I'm just curious to see what they think now.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I believe it was Tetra, given the fact that there is no such thing as a "Toon Sheik". While yes, there was no TP Sheik either, she's just labeled as "Sheik", so it was all fine.

And Tetra is, at least in my eyes, the Wind Waker version of Sheik.

Tetra is not Sheik regardless. The name does not say Tetra either. Likewise, since there's no TP Sheik, but she was probably planned for it, hence the official concept art, Toon Sheik(and not Tetra) was planned for Brawl, due to the exact name. You can't really interpret data as completely different name here...

The only thing that we can take is fact is it was a Toon Sheik.

 

[Shorts]

KUMA OSO.

What Pokemon are held by that trainer? It BETTER be a fifth gen selection, young man.



Seriously though, why must we cut out the other generations? They're good too. Not as recognizable, SURE, but that doesn't mean they don't have a large fanbase. I mean, you cut Lucario out and everything.

The only problem I have with making a "Rebooted" roster for SSB, is you can't take away too much, unlike say, SF.

Ryu, Chun Li, Ken, Akuma, Newcomers. That was SFIII's list of characters right?

Out of curiousity when was the last time we've even checked some of the Japanese boards? Forgive me if I sound like I'm nagging, I'm just curious to see what they think now.

Iunno. Last I recall was Toise and....Chronnnooo?... I think.

I know, who's played the Wind waker game(s?)

Watched them. Well, watched WW, my brother TOLD ME what happened in PH, played a little ways through ST, and gave up. Not much of a non-fighting game player.

 

[nLiM8d]

So would this happen to be going anywhere?

I know, who's played the Wind waker game(s?)

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

There's only one Wind Waker game. He asked if Tetra was on the file. She wasn't. That's all.

 

[nLiM8d]

Ah the internet.

Not all, what would tetra be capable of if she were to be positioned as an AT?

Yo Kuma, or anyone knowledgeable on the subject.

Talk some

Yo.

 

[Deleted member]

If that Mach Rider: Unchained rumor ended up being true, would you guys have supported Mach Rider for Smash?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Tetra is a pirate swordsman. She uses either a cutlass or dagger, and could just fight similar to one. Weaker but more hits. Kind of like Goroh does.

 

[Starphoenix]

If that Mach Rider: Unchained rumor ended up being true, would you guys have supported Mach Rider for Smash?

If he were like this.

 

[Deleted member]

@ChronoBound:I would as well and I would think Sakurai would agree. Brawl's roster was made from the ground up with no obvious clones introduced and no characters given a negative reputation.

I would be very sadden to see Lucario or Ike go. Ike was a great addition in Brawl and I really enjoyed playing as Lucario in Brawl (not to mentioned I liked his movie). I also see more justification for them to return then the ones that were cut (with the exception of Mewtwo, who should have never been cut). I think they do their part well and for this reason, they should be a permanent part of the roster. I would also argue that Mewtwo and Roy should return.

But I don't get that same feeling towards Sonic and Snake. They were great additions, but they're the least important part of the roster since they are guests and are not needed. I obviously want both back, but I can't really say I would be sad to see them cut, especially if all Nintendo Brawl vets stayed.

And now that I've thought about it, I don't understand why guests from Brawl will be prioritized over any Nintendo Brawl vet. Because honestly, if we lose Lucario and/or Ike, I do not see Sakurai putting forth the effort to bring back the guests from Brawl.

 

[Deleted member]

If he were like this.

I'm glad to see I'm not the only one that would envsion Mach Rider wielding a chain like Ghost Rider.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Nobody cares about re-ocurring except... you. Sheik is still an amazing character in Brawl, likewise, she's still heavily popular, and that has never changed. Meta Knight is popular in other series, and nobody cares about hos important they are in their own series. You seem to be under the impression it has any effect whatsoever on this. It doesn't. Importance is NOT a factor, which is the whole crux of your argument. Popularity has also been towards Sheik after all. Talk to me when Sheik is no longer as popular as Impa. This could take a while.

Re-occuring is pretty important. Why else would Marth and Ike make it over other characters from the same franchise? And why else are the first generation of Pokémon so present in Brawl? Re-occurance gives a character more oppertunities to grow into the fans. Sheik is nostaliga at best. And so many characters (retro ones) can do that better than her.

And I'll talk to you when Sheik is gone from Smash, and people will simply forget about her. They would think: Oh Zelda has other abilities now, it's not so bad.

Cutting Sheik is much easier than any other character cause she's an EXTENTION or -meant to be one- of another character. Zelda herself as a character has moved from her role in Ocarina of Time. It should be repersented in Smash.

You mean the only moves that are in common are their B moves and literally NOTHING else? Yeah, sorry, it doesn't hold up. Likewise, Flare Blade isn't even similar to Ike's B move. They're slightly alike, just like Shadow Ball and Aura Sphere is. Likewise, Aura Sphere, like Shadow Ball, were based upon the Charge Shot in he first place. As is, one similar move does not make sense to what you're saying. You're just flat out wrong here.

The B moves in general make the characters unique from others most of the time. So I say it's a bigger influence than you think. Ike and Roy's B move are 80% the same, and Ike could NEVER create flames out of his sword. He had lots of abilities to use instead of a Roy rip off, but I guess they wanted Roy's style in there somewhere.

Lucario is a humanoid Pokemon similar how Mewtwo is. He also covers weaknesses Mewtwo obviously had as in, light frame tall height, and very bad hitboxes and range. Adding 1 + 1 here, it doesn't make sence to me having 2 characters so similar to the 2 ones from the exact same series who are removed.

Subsititues are a good work for this perhaps yeah. But it makes it sounds so good. It's not good at all.

They have data for playable characters. They were considered. Dur. I don't even have to much respond to this because you're ignoring facts for some fantasy-based interpretation.

What about the part you left out that they didn't use the models for anything else? Why did Rayquaza had a role as a boss, while Mewtwo could've done it? Why do we have a Lyn AT, while it could be Roy? Why is there no Roy throphy at all? Why is Mewtwo's throphy so ****ty?

If they where considered, at least they would've had a model. And if they had a model, they would've used it.

In order for them to be replaced, they wouldn't have character data. Since they do, they weren't. You're just plain wrong. I can let GY take over on this, as he explained why I was wrong too. There is nothing to suggest they were outright replaced. Only character replaced was Pichu, not counting the Wire Frames, of course. You're using the definition wrong. I might believe you if Lucario had exactly the same moves as Mewtwo, and Ike has the same as Roy. But they don't. One move is a very bad definition of a replacement. If anything, they're substitutes at best.

You emphasise to much on the character data. Has there ever been enough effidence HOW MUCH this data was exactly? Just being there doesn't count. Especially if you yourself consider Toad far more likely and important than Dixie, who had data in it as well. You accuse me of being biased, yet overlook what you do yourself?

Doesn't matter, because he was outright replaced. And Falco actually was more unique anyway. His play style wasn't even similar to Fox. Pichu... was barely different. Smaller, hurt himself, oh, sooooo different.

Different overall Up Smash, and Down Smash for Pichu. Falco had the exact same moves as Fox, they just emphasises on making Falco more aerial based and play according the style of Fox in 64 Smash. But it's silly, as Falco is of coarse a better character than Pichu. They have a lot to choose from in Pichu's stead, not so much for Falco.

It's still a Smash Storyline. Sheik played a role in it. It doesn't matter if it's re-skinned, which it clearly was. It's still part of Smash's canon, which Sheik played a role in. She's important to Smash, where it matters. Hell, she's more important than the FE characters who had little relevance other than existing.

I'm surprised she didn't play the harp in it. >_>
It's a silly arguement to discuss her relevance on, and something about this is telling me your out of arguements positive for Sheik.

Too bad there's fans from more than just Zelda, which outweigh what you say. Once again, re-ocurring has no effect on who can get in. She could exceed her, but she has yet to. Don't be surprise if she doesn't. Next Zelda game, Impa and Ghirahim could become a fad. Kind of like Wind Waker did as soon as Twilight Princess was released. Sheik is so far the only one-off to still be popular to this day. All the rest were fads so far.

Doubt they'd give Impa as much of a role if they where not planning to revive her from this point on. But yeah, time will tell. As of now, I say Impa definitely has the upper hand in getting the spot for Smash.

Lucario had an extremely popular movie, was the first revealed of 4th Gen, was super easy to get in Gen IV(something Mewtwo was not), and indeed was heavily popular. It would make sense to make the new character playable before the old. But it doesn't change that both were planned to be in.

Mewtwo had 2 movies, and everyone and his dog knew how to get him eventually in the original games. Mewtwo has much more of a fan base than Sheik, most of it coming from WITHOUT the Smash-fans. And that's not saying he's not immensively popular amongst Smashers. Cause he is.

And as you say yourself, it makes sence to have the new character playable before the old. Sheik is not only old, she's almost ancient. Dusty even. Ocarina of Time hasn't even aged that well. :/ What is the damn point of keeping Sheik?

None of this matters. Impa cannot do anything more than Sheik does in Smash. There is no reason to replace her that fits into Sakurai's Criteria. Try-Hyphen, could you quote that again, please?

She can create barriers (amongst things) that alone is unique to everything that has been done in Smash before.

Not that it mathers, cause Sheik's moveset is completely made up as well. They even made up the transforming part; Sheik doesn't just turn into Zelda mid battles in OoT. She would've had a much easier time escaping the colapsing castle if she did.

Influence in Smash, not the Zelda series, which has no relevance to Smash. Try again.

Because a character gets into the game at first because of what again? Please tell me why Zelda / Sheik was included?

Considering nobody who was added was a clone of anyone, I don't see the point of this statement whatsoever. Mewtwo didn't make the cut due to time constraints. THAT'S IT.

So priority was given to other characters. Which is exactly why Sheik shouldn't make it.

You pretty much are now. You keep bringing up points that has zero effect on the criteria, which means that whatever you say does not matter in the slightest for Impa's chances. We've told you why it has little to no chance of happening, which we're using the criteria as our basis, which makes out more correct than you have been.

And you hold unto that "proof" that I'm wrong for so much you overlook yourself, and come up with the same old 'veterans shouldn't be cut' and 'Sheik is popular' all over again.

Ness was almost cut for Lucas in Melee. How about that?
Many said if Brawl would've been pushed to earlier release date, Jigglypuff wouldn't probably make it (perhaps along with Toon Link and Wolf) so that's a REAL old time veteran being cut. How would you explain this?

But we both know it won't happen.

If Meowth happens to be extremely much requested why not? Why wouldn't they give priority to develop the more popular character first to make sure it's in? Not saying Meowth is likely... But still.

Of which none prove us wrong either. All of them are bad.

Still doesn't mean Sheik isn't still the most irrelevant, unimportant, undeserving character in Brawl. Not even subjective. I'd argue R.O.B and the Ice Climbers are better candidates than her any time of the day.

That small difference only proves Sheik is more wanted. It makes all the difference in the world.

Doubt it.

You're not sprouting logic. She's an unique fighter. The harp is not important whatsoever. She's a ninja, first and foremost. You're just nitpicking and something pointless. Yes, it should've been her final smash, but it doesn't actually make a hoot of a difference. She could always fight by her own style.

Point is, she wasn't even much of a ninja in OoT. That part was made up. My part about playing the harp was sacrasm btw, it's the only thing she actually does in Ocarina of Time. Which makes me come to the point: have you been playing Zelda games actually?

Also, people wanted Zelda separate since the beginning basically. Sheik ALWAYS overshadowed Zelda, which is not what the developers wanted anyway. I doubt that Sheik will get her own spot in Smash 4, but I doubt her style would be forgotten either. Here, Impa makes perfect sence to have. Even if they in the end decide to couple her with Zelda after all. All makes sence once Skyward Sword hits the credit rolls.

Funny, because that's exactly who you're playing as.

In apperance yes. But her moves are all made up. Could be anyone doing the same. Just look at Fox / Falco / Wolf and Captain Falcon / Ganondorf. Most of these 'made up' fighters with made up moves have clones in the game. They could easily do the same thing again with Sheik, except cutting Sheik and leaving the "clone".

Maybe I can hear a relevant point? Because I have not seen anything yet that has a single effect on her chances at all. Relevance is not important, after all. Which is still the entire crux of your argument.

You just refuse to add up all these arguements togheter. And I'm too lazy to list them all, cause I'm using them to defend Impa in the first place. They get lost during the process and frankly, I have other things on my mind. Might list all of my arguements later if I bother to care.

Moveset is still coming tomorrow though.

 

[ChronoBound]

It is more like the Japanese fans are paranoid because Mewtwo and Roy were removed.

Yep. Both of those characters were actually pretty popular among the Japanese fanbase.

Anyway here is my roster if it was limited to 52 characters (48 slots with a random bar on the side). There are no cuts from Brawl, as well as Mewtwo and Roy being brought back. There are 11 true newcomers.

 

[yani_]

It is more like the Japanese fans are paranoid because Mewtwo and Roy were removed.

My guess as well.

I'd be more sad to see Sonic/Snake go than any other characters (aside from original 12)

 

[Starphoenix]

Yep. Both of those characters were actually pretty popular among the Japanese fanbase.

Anyway here is my roster if it was limited to 52 characters (48 slots with a random bar on the side). There are no cuts from Brawl, as well as Mewtwo and Roy being brought back. There are 11 true newcomers.
[COLLAPSE="Smash 4 roster"]
Mario column:
1. Mario
2. Luigi
3. Peach
4. Bowser
5. Toad
6. Paper Mario

Mario spinoff column:
7. Donkey Kong
8. Diddy Kong
9. K. Rool
10. Dixie Kong
11. Yoshi
12. Wario

Other series developed by EAD column:
13. Link
14. Zelda & Sheik
15. Ganondorf
16. "Child" Link (either Toon or Young Link)
17. Olimar
18. Mii

Nintendo's space series column:
19. Samus & Zero Suit Samus
20. Ridley
21. Fox
22. Falco
23. Wolf
24. Captain Falcon

Sakurai's "babies" column:
25. Kirby
26. Meta Knight
27. King Dedede
28. Pit
29. Palutena
30. Medusa

Pokemon column:
31. Pikachu
32. Jigglypuff
33. Mewtwo
34. Pokemon Trainer (Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Charizard)
35. Lucario
36. Victini

Nintendo RPG series column:
37. Marth
38. Roy
39. Ike
40. Ness
41. Lucas
42. Shulk (I originally had Isaac, but I wanted to have another "new" character on the roster besides Victini)

Retro and Third-Party column:
43. Mr. Game & Watch
44. Ice Climbers
45. ROB
46. Snake
47. Sonic
48. Mega Man

Characters in Smash 4 that are not in Brawl:
Toad
Paper Mario
K. Rool
Dixie Kong
Ridley
Mewtwo
Victini
Roy
Palutena
Medusa
Mii
Shulk
Mega Man[/COLLAPSE]

You know, I think I am at a point now where I would rather sacrifice the guest characters for three other Nintendo series. Still, I think in some ways there will be exclusive characters for each game. Not sure how many, but there will be a couple.

 

[nLiM8d]

Guest characters for DLC, WOOT!

 

[Diddy Kong]

Read Mario Spin Off collum, then saw Donkey Kong under it. So I didn't read. And won't.

 

[Starphoenix]

Guest characters for DLC, WOOT!

More like exclusive guest characters for each game.

3DS:
Snake
Professor Layton

Wii U:
Sonic the Hedgehog
Megaman

 

[Deleted member]

How do you guys envision Magnus in terms of how likely he is?

While I wouldn't want him over Medusa, being Sakurai's creation, I think he stands a big chance, sadly...

 

[ChronoBound]

Read Mario Spin Off collum, then saw Donkey Kong under it. So I didn't read. And won't.

That is being feisty. Yoshi, Wario, and characters from the Donkey Kong series have all appeared in the Mario spinoffs, Sakurai grouped them that way in Brawl, so I am doing the same here. I am sorry you did not like the term that I used to describe it. Donkey Kong is certainly the biggest Nintendo series (in sales) after Zelda though.

 

[nLiM8d]

I don't necessarily agree to that.

Though I recognize the portrayal, its like I'll have to buy the 3DS if I want to play as Layton . I can see some similar predicament happening with Isaac or other handheld type characters.

 

[ChronoBound]

How do you guys envision Magnus in terms of how likely he is?

While I wouldn't want him over Medusa, being Sakurai's creation, I think he stands a big chance, sadly...

Magnus is likely Assist Trophy material. He has no OVAs dedicated to him, unlike Palutena and Medusa (Palutena will have two, Medusa will have one).

 

[Deleted member]

Sorry for more hypothetical questions, but if Medusa ended up being in a naga-like form (meaning, she has a snake tail instead of legs), would you want her playable like that?

I would find it more unique.

 

[Starphoenix]

I don't necessarily agree to that.

Though I recognize the portrayal, its like I'll have to buy the 3DS if I want to play as Layton . I can see some similar predicament happening with Isaac or other handheld type characters.

I was just throwing some names out there. Particularly I was trying to put the lesser ones in the 3DS category. Point is I could see that being a way to entice people to buy each version.

 

[nLiM8d]

Oh I can see pessimistic premonitions pouring out from your general direction!

Well, if something like this were to be implemented, I'd like for it to be promoted as DLC further down the line. I know for sure we'd have to pay.

Most fighting games have a similar agenda.

 

[ChronoBound]

My main critique for my roster is a lack of "unknown" characters. They are usually retro, but I have no place to put one. I was thinking about Lip (and simply making the FE/Mother column a sort of Japan-only column), but I am not to keen about her. Still, the lack of an "unknown" or "resurrection" is what I dislike most about my roster.

On a side note, I made a really good Lip moveset (perhaps the best of the new series character movesets I made aside from Mega Man's).

 

[Big-Cat]

KUMA OSO.

What Pokemon are held by that trainer? It BETTER be a fifth gen selection, young man.

Seriously though, why must we cut out the other generations? They're good too. Not as recognizable, SURE, but that doesn't mean they don't have a large fanbase. I mean, you cut Lucario out and everything.

The only problem I have with making a "Rebooted" roster for SSB, is you can't take away too much, unlike say, SF.

Ryu, Chun Li, Ken, Akuma, Newcomers. That was SFIII's list of characters right?

The Pokemon Trainer has the first gen. I just went with the first gen because of their iconic status (relative to the Pokemon franchise) AND they aren't subject to being treated as flavor of the month as they have endured the test of time.

And yeah, I'll admit that a rebooted roster is very hard for Smash. I noticed this while making the roster.

Not all, what would tetra be capable of if she were to be positioned as an AT?

Yo Kuma, or anyone knowledgeable on the subject.

Talk some

Yo.

I always liked her design. Her, Lightning, Poison, Jem, Luka.... I think I have a thing for pink haired girls, especially tough ones. Still need to finish MOTHER 3 though.

Sorry for more hypothetical questions, but if Medusa ended up being in a naga-like form (meaning, she has a snake tail instead of legs), would you want her playable like that?

I would find it more unique.

I would keep the Naga form for running. Of course, that's assuming she can do that.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Read it again cause I saw different collums under it. Don't really know, but it seems acceptable as a roster. Just disagree with Sheik (in general, and also of not being in favor of another Zelda character- be it Ghirahim, Tingle or Impa), and perhaps Shulk over Isaac. Having the Mii in general, no Little Mac, not having Chrome over either Roy or Ike (depening on who you think has priority, could go either way imo). So I'll give it a 7/10 I guess. Still very good, but I'm picky.

 

[Deleted member]

Chrome is as likely as Mario getting cut.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Chrome's game not becoming a great succes is as small as Dr.Mario getting into Smash 4. As a stand alone character I'll add.

 

[Deleted member]

Yes, because one must infer that it will be a complete success without knowing anything about it, because clearly, ALL Fire Emblem titles were complete successes. [/sarcasm]

Anyone who legitimately beleives Chrome/Krom has a chance at this point in time is blinded by the fact that he's a new character.

I mean, that's LITERALLY why people think he has a shot. Because he's "new and fresh".