New Smash Bros for WiiU

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Yeah... I guess seeing Miis in SSB4 is inevitable... still, I'd rather that NOT be the case.

I didn't say it as inevitable. I said what other choices would work for the customization if we're having a customized character?

Something like the Polygon/Wire Frames/Alloys?(that's pretty much what the Mii's are anyway, heh)

 

[Spydr Enzo]

I didn't say it as inevitable. I said what other choices would work for the customization if we're having a customized character?

Something like the Polygon/Wire Frames/Alloys?(that's pretty much what the Mii's are anyway, heh)

I'd actually like customizing random original Smash Bros. characters like that than customizing fighting Miis.

 

[---]

It's funny how I brought up a quote concerning Mii's and why Sakurai doesn't want them in Smash and everyone ignors it.

Oh well, I'm heading off to bed then to go play me some UMvC3 and to finish killing Ridley (I'm not a speed runner).

Later.

 

[Johnknight1]

Sure, if you can give me a statement from Nintendo declaring which games are Canon of his. We're going bey a definition we made up. Bowser Jr also has barely been in any games as is, making Waluigi just a bit more notable in the overall series. Not just "Canon", which isn't defined officially. The only game that is not officially part of any Mario Canon is Hotel Mario. No other game has been shown that they're not. Same thing with the Zelda CDi games. Which means Canon isn't even a relevant argument anymore.

Canon refers to something viewed as "official" in a fictional universe and it's story. Mario Party, Mario Kart, and Mario sports games have no relation to the Mario canon story (as simple as it is), so therefore they are not canon to the Mario platformers. The various Mario sports games, Mario Party, and Mario Kart are a different canon universe.

I refer to Donkey Kong, DK Jr., Mario Bros., SMB 1-3 and Lost Levels, World 1 and 2, Yoshi's Island DS, 64, Sunshine, Galaxy 1 and 2, Mario Land 10-3, both NEW Super Mario Bros. games, and all remakes and re-releases of all said game as canon. I can't find any relations from other Mario games to the central Mario canon. And yes, canon is a legitimate argument in smash bros, regardless of what you say. The Chewbacca argument may have gotten O.J. Simpson away with murder, but it won't make Waluigi a playable character in Smash Bros!

There's too many Toads, and no way to know if the MAIN Toad is in which game or not.

The "there are too many Toads" argument can be beaten in two word: Yoshi. Link. There are dozens of both of them. Still, there are specific Toads, like Toadsworth, and the Toad Brigade... and Toadette I guess.

Whether Toad is important enough in the Mario universe to warrant a spot is still (I think) the big question mark for Toad on his possibility of being playable in smash. Either way, by the time we see Peach we'll probably have an answer.

There's a lot of people who want Waluigi in Smash as is, including me. You're only speaking for yourself, which is fine if you don't like him. Nobody said you had to. But don't say that other people hate him, when some may, some may not.

I want a character who plays unique, above all. That is what I think most people want. I think there tons upon tons of characters that are could have a more unique move set and play style that Waluigi.

As a playable character? None. As a CHARACTER as is? Waluigi is already there. It's just a matter of bumping up his status. If he was really not cared about by Sakurai, he wouldn't have gotten AT Status. He clearly is something that Sakurai is interested in by that alone.

Well there are all kinds of assist trophies. Sure, some like Starfy, Saki, and Little Mac seemed destined to be playable, but most are there just because they are random, funny, useful, or popular but not "fit" for being playable. I think Waluigi fits in that last category.

If they're not popular, why would they get chosen? Outside of R.O.B. or being first in Smash, every character has/had a following. Pretending they don't is silly.

ROB had a pre-Brawl following, for sure. It was small. It had like 12 people on Smash Boards. The same goes with the Pokémon Trainer. Every character under the sun imaginable had at least 12 people supporting them, including nearly every Pokémon, Darth Vader, Vegeta, and Mickey Mouse (I'm not joking).

Lucario was popular, the only reason he got in. In fact, that's pretty much all he had: Popularity power.

Lucario also got in because he had a unique ability and he was the "icon" of the 4th Generation of Pokémon. Besides, the popularity of any Pokémon that is seen as a front-runner for a new roster spot is usually more popular than just about any character. The same thing happened with Mewtwo in Melee. Expect that huge hype to happen again with a new(er) Pokémon. Waluigi's popularity will never be as big as that Pokémon popularity.

Fun fact: There was a "Darth Vader for Brawl" and "Mickey Mouse for Brawl" threads. Just sayin'!

How many new players played them? Not many. ROB's only well known to new players thanks to Mario Kart DS.

ROB was a free attachment to the NES, and one of the NES' main selling points. He could dance, interact for a game or two, and was something you certainly didn't see on a game console before. ROB's game Gyromite was also a key NES launch title. The ROB attachment definitely helped end the North American video game crash of the early 1980's. You gotta love him just for that!

You have yet to give any factual reason on why Waluigi can't be upgraded.

That's because I heard the "arguments" you give before Brawl came out, and I expect the same result as Brawl.

And? What does this have to do with anything? Maybe that Tingle's not a recent character? That isn't a good reason to disclude him.

The characters who appeared in smash that don't have a recent title are the sole main character of a game in a game or series.

You have no idea what a character's likelihood is here. Also, Waluigi fits every single one of Sakurai's reasons. Which means his likelihood is no different from Toad's or Bowser Jr/Shadow Mario's.

I do have some clues. I got the entire Brawl roster right, minus the Pokémon Trainer and ROB. I was pretty close then, and I assume I will be pretty close again.

 

[Spydr Enzo]

It's funny how I brought up a quote concerning Mii's and why Sakurai doesn't want them in Smash and everyone ignors it.

Oh well, I'm heading off to bed then to go play me some UMvC3 and to finish killing Ridley (I'm not a speed runner).

Later.

Oh I definitely read it, I've heard it before though. Do you think Sakurai still feels that way though? Especially with Miis beign on the 3DS now too?

 

[Shorts]

@Shortie:

The point of making movesets for characters is to prove that they actually have something to work with. Yes, you can do that for a lot of characters, but when it is a character that is iconic, popular, and easily recognizable by anyone familar with Super Mario, than it means a lot more.

I think "No, I don't see what I can do with him" from Sakurai (Someone who doesn't take his word lightly), and virtually UNCHANGED scenario ten years later, says a lot more.

I think you forget the Wii series is the THIRD(If not third, fourt/fifth STILL BEAT LOZ) best selling series in History. Behind Pokes and Mario. They have no representation.

 

[---]

Oh I definitely read it, I've heard it before though. Do you think Sakurai still feels that way though? Especially with Miis beign on the 3DS now too?

A little bit.

Overall in addition to that I don't think custom Mii's would work out without some sort of base which doesn't seem to fit the Mii's at all IMO. Not to mention it may be hard to balance.

I don't hate them, but I do think there are many problems with them that could keep them from being playable.

 

[Zap tackle]

@Shortie

Again, I'm fairly certain that Sakurai is not the only developer who is creating the movesets. There are tons of people going to be working on SSB4, and who's to say that Sakurai will be the one to be making all the movesets and characters? If Sakurai has trouble with a character, I am sure that there are others who are developing the character ideas who can think of something.

 

[Shorts]

@Shortie

Again, I'm fairly certain that Sakurai is not the only developer who is creating the movesets. There are tons of people going to be working on SSB4, and who's to say that Sakurai will be the one to be making all the movesets and characters? If Sakurai has trouble with a character, I am sure that there are others who are developing the character ideas who can think of something.

Shhhh. No more. Sakurai says "It won't work". That means, we aren't working on it. When boss says no, he means no. This isn't up for debate. What's more up for debate is if Toad as done anything to change Sakurai's mind. Which, I am betting no. Because the scenario IMO is the exact same. Toad's still as playable as ever, still copying Mario and Luigi, and still as iconic as ever. STILL, no dice.

Did I read Johnknight's post wrong, or has someone been using the dumb "Toad is a generic character" argument again? If I see anyone in hear say something like that, I am fully prepared to rip them apart.

Not worth it.

He writes walls of text. Disgusting.

 

[Spydr Enzo]

Did I read Johnknight's post wrong, or has someone been using the dumb "Toad is a generic character" argument again? If I see anyone in here say something like that, I am fully prepared to rip them apart.

 

[Kantrip]

Toad is generic and not unique and therefore rosalina should get in.

 

[Shorts]

Toad is generic and not unique and therefore rosalina should get in.

Or Junior? Or no Mario cats?

 

[Johnknight1]

Really?

Well then I guess I'll need more popcorn.

It is serious. People get so offended. The way people go at it you would think it was the Roe vs. Wade debate.

Spoiler

If you guys start that debate I will abort you

@john
Cheap cheap chase and snowball summit(?) were my games. I wish my 64 still worked man. Oh wEll i'm oUt of Luck Aren'T I? E
=]

Cheap Cheap Chase was fun. Snowball Summit and that power-up chase attack game were my 2nd favorite mini-game.

I don't think custom Mii's would work out without some sort of base which doesn't seem to fit the Mii's at all IMO. Not to mention it may be hard to balance.

I don't hate them, but I do think there are many problems with them that could keep them from being playable.

I love Miis, and I really want them to be playable. I want the Miis to just be another character, but make them unique, and allow you to choose what your Miis' face and head looks like, what they are wearing, and choose whether they are male or female.

However, custom Miis sound broken. Just look at how broken custom characters frequently are in other fighting game series.

Not worth it.

He writes walls of text. Disgusting.

I space (I use to not do that). Also, I wrote only about 2 dozen lines of text on my last long post. The quotes are the long part of my posts.

 

[Zap tackle]

We cannot trust Sakurai's logic all the time as he can easily be pressured by others. Remember the devleopment for Brawl and the his announcement of SSB4? Sakurai never wanted to make both games; however, he still is making them. He said that at the end of each Smash installment, that it was his last one each time. Brawl was especially designed to be the last, but it seems that Nintendo got the better of him recently (SSB4) and right during the Wii U's announcement.

Who's to say that someone won't pressure him like how GameFreak did which Sakurai mentioned during one of his interviews (who know what reasons, but possible roster related). Also Nintendo pretty much seemed to have forced the guy to make SSB4.

Besides, who's to say Miyamoto won't come up to Sakurai and ask him to add Toad (one of Miyamoto's earliest creations) as a playable character in SSB4 while they are searching for Mario candidates.

 

[Big-Cat]

I think John has outdone me in quote jenga.

 

[Drclaw411]

@drclaw: That's a lot of items, to note. Many of those items are already in the game(or has been in some way). Pow Block, Lightning, Ghost(via the Cloaking Device), Red Shell, Green Shell, Fake Items(Exploding Containers).

Okay, not many. Personally, I think just the Blue Shell might be enough. Red Shell alone could do it well too.

I'm kind of thinking that even if they just keep the same mario kart items, it could be a nice touch to have them in the box before hand. Or even something as little as making the crates look like the mario kart box if the new game has a mario kart stage.

Hyperfalcon, you need to quote. You sounded like you just said "The only difference between Bowser and Bowser Jr. is their age and items" Totally disregaurding the fact that they are totally different individuals who are simply father and son of the same race. Pretty much, I'm my dad. You're your dad. That's what it sounded like you said.

Remember LINK AND TOON LINK ARE THE SAME PERSON. DIFFERENT AGES. Unlike Junior and Bowser.


Discofunctioning, I don't think the difference between Link and Toon Link is nearly as extreme as Bowser and Junior COULD be.

I still feel that Bowser Jr would be a Toon Link'd Bowser. Not that he should be.

Mario Kart 7's confirmed (and perhaps final) roster:

1. Mario
2. Luigi
3. Toad
4. Peach
5. Bowser
6. Yoshi
7. Koopa Troopa
8. Donkey Kong
9. Wario
10. Daisy
11. Shy Guy
12. Mii
13. Rosalina
14. Metal Mario
15. Lakitu
16. Queen Honey Bee
17. Wiggler

I want a deer character now

Rosalina in =



I also have a few ideas I wanted to share with you:

• How do you guys feel about the Green Hill Zone stage? It's one of my favorites even though I normally don't like infinite walk off stages, and I'd like to see it return.
• Anybody have ideas on how a Mario Galaxy stage could work?
• I brought this up a while ago, but I have an idea for SSE 2. Let's say SSB4's campaign takes place in the same universe SSE did, but this time it's not about Subspace Army and Tabuu attacking. This time, let's say the majority of the levels are based on Nintendo worlds. There could be levels based on Mario, Pokemon, Donkey Kong, etc. But not every character get's their world repped in campaign levels. In my idea, non-playable villians have unified to try to overthrow the heroes of the franchises that get levels. The playable characters from franchises that don't get levels come in to assist the other characters protect their home worlds (keeping the team-up aspect of the SSE). In all these levels feature the franchises non-playable villians as bosses, they would also feature the world's normal enemies (goomba's, waddle dees, wild pokemon, etc) instead of featuring the enemies created for SSE. At the end of the campaign you'll face the playable villains in sequence. As you beat each one, they join your party. Then, they help you defeat the final boss...or so you think. After that, you see a cutscene with the characters looking relieved and celebrating. Until a familiar purple glow starts taking over the land they were standing on. Tabuu and his subspace army had regrouped and come back to try again. You enter a newly designed subspace themed level, featuring the minor SSE enemies and very watered down SSE bosses. At the end of the level, you reach a cutscene. Tabuu has returned, and he touches the trophy stand of the head boss (i havnt really thought of who this would be) from the pre-subspace part of the game. You have to fight that boss one more time, then you finally get to square off against Tabuu. Defeat him and you beat the game.

 

[Oasis_S]

Ah, so you're the Oasis guy I've been hearing about. I'll be keeping my eye on you, as well as Iblis.

I actually find it quite likely that we will see a Mario newcomer. The question is, will it be Toad or Bowser Jr.?

Spoiler

Or both? :o

I'm the strongest in the whole world, y'know. BD

Junior excites me much more than Toad, but I do think Toad comes out on top out of the three prominent candidates. There's just the difference in moveset potential, which I~ would say Junior wins. But that's probably not enough. BUUUT, I'm not seeing five Mario characters as too likely. I remember pre-Brawl, everyone thought a fifth one was assured with Dr. Mario likely leaving, AND OF COURSE that didn't happen. I don't think Toad really compares with the ones we have already. I kind of see him as a bit unnecessary, really. BUT, times are different, there's not a lot of characters left, and Toad is very recognizable ESPECIALLY after NSMBWii. ...I'm not very good at debating if I can't even come to a conclusion on what I think.


Nooo, don't say Sukapooon. It's too heartbreakiiing.

 

[Spydr Enzo]

Shhhh. No more. Sakurai says "It won't work". That means, we aren't working on it. When boss says no, he means no. This isn't up for debate. What's more up for debate is if Toad as done anything to change Sakurai's mind. Which, I am betting no. Because the scenario IMO is the exact same. Toad's still as playable as ever, still copying Mario and Luigi, and still as iconic as ever. STILL, no dice.
.

You're just a bit too quick to write off Toad... really, what was Sakurai's exact comment? Do we even have a real source yet?

Whatever Sakurai said, you seem to be taking it a bit too far. When was this, the Melee blog? Around a decade ago? Seeing as how few viable candidates we have left for Sakurai to consider, and seeing how Toad has pretty much everything going for him besides this alleged comment made by Sakurai tips the odds in his favor, I think. Do you honestly think that Sakurai making a trivial comment over a decade ago will totally destroy said characters chances of becoming playable, even if they are iconic, popular, and easily recognizable to anyone who is familiar wirh Mario? I really, truly doubt that.

There are characters like Sukapon that Sakurai has written off completely, telling us striahgt up to not ever expect to see them playbale in the future. If you were making this case for characters like that, I'd understand. But this is TOAD we're talking about... not Sukapon. And again, no one seems to be able to locate this alleged comment.

 

[Shorts]

We cannot trust Sakurai's logic all the time as he can easily be pressured by others. Remember the devleopment for Brawl and the his announcement of SSB4? Sakurai never wanted to make both games; however, he still is making them. He said that at the end of each Smash installment, that it was his last one each time. Brawl was especially designed to be the last, but it seems that Nintendo got the better of him.

Not that the decision to "Hey, nuture your baby or we're giving it away" has ANYTHING to do with Sakurai's stern views and Toad's chances, I would like to point out Sakurai actually talked about interest in SSB4 after Brawl's release.

Who's to say that someone won't pressure him like how GameFreak did which Sakurai mentioned during one of his interviews (who know what reasons, but possible roster related). Also Nintendo pretty much seemed to have forced the guy to make SSB4.

Thing is, as far as we know, no one is forcing him to do anything, besides maybe game freak. If it hasn't been forced in the past like, 13 years, why now would someone force him to add Toad?

Silly Zappy. You didn't even do anything to strengthen Toad's argument, like I asked you. I even gave you the "Hey, answer me this"

Me making cookies~

 

[ChronoBound]

I asked for a source too in regards to Sakurai's Toad comment. Unless there is a source the claim shall remain dubious. Its much like how Sigurd fans claimed that he was Sakurai's favorite Fire Emblem character, but when someone actually bothered to translate Sakurai's Melee journal and post a link to it, it turned out his favorite character was Nabarl (a mercenary/swordmaster from FE1/FE3).

 

[Deleted member]

Hey, Spydr_Enzo is back! Looking forward to seeing him again.

@ChronoBound: Honestly, I can't really say I'm surprised at the lack of Bowser Jr./Diddy Kong since the roster is unlikely to be as large as MK7, although Waluigi's (possible) exclusion is bizarre. But he'll be back for Mario Kart Wii-U.

@SmashChu: Interesting stage concept, looking forward to you expanding it. Hopefully, you can tell us how important of a role he makes in the game so that we can decide on whenever or not he can get in.

I'm probably gonna be hitting the sack sometime soon... but I'll play along.

(WOW, this place moves faster than what I'm used too... not sure if I'm going to be able to handle it here for long.)

It has it's slow times and it's fast times. The fastest days are behind it until we get close to E3 2012.

Who's to say that someone won't pressure him like how GameFreak did which Sakurai mentioned during one of his interviews (who know what reasons, but possible roster related). Also Nintendo pretty much seemed to have forced the guy to make SSB4.

I think Sakurai is in a much better mood then he was in Brawl, so I doubt he was "forced".

 

[Johnknight1]

Sakurai said a short while after Melee came out he couldn't imagine Toad being playable in smash. Granted, it's been nearly a decade since that statement and Toad has been in some big games and had some good roles. Yet, that quote remains, and questions remain as to whether Sakurai still feels that way about Toad. The source has been posted here, and I could look for it... but that would require too much work! I am pretty sure it was a legitimate source, though.

Sakurai sounded pretty pumped for a new smash bros games (as in he was not forced into it). It seems like some of the ideas he had left that weren't implemented in Brawl will probably be in Smash Bros. Wii U and 3DS. Can we start the Ridley parade already=???

He probably views this smash bros. game (concept) as a new game, just like he did with the previous 3 smash bros. games. If Sakurai's hyped, we ought to be, too!

Also, watch this video to become totally super awesome bro!

 

[Shorts]

I'm not saying Toad has no chance, just.. Sakurai said what he said. If it's not true, then that's that. I'm thinking it's true though. I've heard it from a few people I trust.

If it's true, because Toad's role hasn't changed, at all. I say, not happening.

If it's not true, then yes, that's that. Toad is a good choice no matter what Sakurai says. It's just that what he says matters. And from what Johnknight just said, Sakurai sounded pretty serious. It's not that I'm taking Sakurai too serious, if anything, I'm taking a unsupported uote too serious.

If anything, you're taking Sakurai's word much too lightly.

@Zap, you aren't listening to me, so yeah, don't bother writing anything. You're just repeatng things I've already said stuff about or is completely irrelevent.

I'm talking about Sakurai's view on Toad, not if Toad is a good choice people.

 

[Zap tackle]

@Shortie

I'm not up to the mood of making another big Toad essay or "power-up" statement for him at the moment (I feel much too tired right now and might be getting to bed soon).

Also why Toad now? Because Toad actually has a solid chance now of being playable. All of his main competitors for the Mario series have now been added in as of Brawl (Wario got in for Wario series, Diddy for DK series). Now he is pretty much on equal with Jr., Paper Mario, and to some with Waluigi. Sakurai's mind is bound to change by this point of time. We cannot just predict his choices and statements all the time. Sakurai seemed uninterested in another Smash Bros. before, but now he appears to be "pumped" (as you guys say). Who's to say that his decision with characters will remain the same as what he thought of a decade ago.

He's probably forgotten all about that by now (it appears to be a small remark that Sakurai possibly gave about Toad and nothing else -easy to overcome). If it was serious like what he said about the AC, and Nintendogs I'm sure that it would have been known eariler and much more public. Most of us never heard about this possible "remark" until a month ago (nearly over a decade since Melee was released)! Sakurai seems to be interested in Toad as he did put him on the consideration list on his journal still.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Canon refers to something viewed as "official" in a fictional universe and it's story. Mario Party, Mario Kart, and Mario sports games have no relation to the Mario canon story (as simple as it is), so therefore they are not canon to the Mario platformers. The various Mario sports games, Mario Party, and Mario Kart are a different canon universe.

There is no proof of this. You're making up your own storyline here. What you're talking about is perhaps the main story, at most. They're all connected until Nintendo says otherwise. Enough with the infactual argument. It already failed.

By canon I am referring to Donkey Kong, DK Jr., Mario Bros., SMB 1-3 and Lost Levels, World 1 and 2, Yoshi's Island DS, 64, Sunshine, Galaxy 1 and 2, Mario Land 10-3, both NEW Super Mario Bros. games, and all remakes and re-releases of all said game. I cannot find any relations from other Mario games to the central Mario canon.

Nintendo has not stated this officially. Your argument holds no water.

And yes, canon is a legitimate argument in smash bros, regardless of what you say. The Chewbacca argument may have gotten O.J. Simpson away with murder, but it won't make Waluigi a playable character in Smash Bros!

Only if it's actually legitimate, which it is NOT in this case. There's is no officially stated Canon in the Mario Universe. The argument is flawed from the start. It fails.

The "there are too many Toads" argument can be beaten in two word: Yoshi. Link. There are dozens of both of them.

There is only one Link per series, and he's the reincarnation of them all. Which means it's overall the same soul. Same person. Also, that doesn't matter, since Yoshi actually stars as a main character in his own game. He also is shown as the main Yoshi is various media too. Same as Toad. However, you cannot say which exact Toad is the main one. Nor have I said which exact Yoshi is the main one, now have I? Your argument holds no water in this case.

Still, there are specific Toads, like Toadsworth, and the Toad Brigade... and Toadette I guess.

Exactly. Toadsworth could bring a lot to the table. Just as unique moves as Toad, and a cane. Plus, being an old man, he'd have great fighting experience possibly.

Whether Toad is important enough in the Mario universe to warrant a spot is still (I think) the big question mark for Toad on his possibility of being playable in smash. Either way, by the time we see Peach we'll probably have an answer.

All that matters is that he Sakurai thinks Toad can be usable for Smash.

I want a character who plays unique, above all. That is what I think most people want. I think there tons upon tons of characters that are could have a more unique move set and play style that Waluigi.

You still have no proof of this statement. Toad isn't any more unique than him in a playstyle. You're making up your own world here.

Well there are all kinds of assist trophies. Sure, some like Starfy, Saki, and Little Mac seemed destined to be playable, but most are there just because they are random, funny, useful, or popular but not "fit" for being playable. I think Waluigi fits in that last category.

He doesn't fit the last one at all. His body shape is perfect for Smash, his style is easily translateable into Smash. Once again, you're making up things to prove your point.

ROB had a pre-Brawl following, for sure. It was small. It had like 12 people on Smash Boards. The same goes with the Pokémon Trainer. Every character under the sun imaginable had at least 12 people supporting them, including nearly every Pokémon, Darth Vader, Vegeta, and Mickey Mouse (I'm not joking).

So Waluigi has more than R.O.B. Imagine that, right?

Lucario also got in because he had a unique ability and he was the "icon" of the 4th Generation of Pokémon. Besides, the popularity of any Pokémon that is seen as a front-runner for a new roster spot is usually more popular than just about any character. The same thing happened with Mewtwo in Melee. Expect that huge hype to happen again with a new(er) Pokémon. Waluigi's popularity will never be as big as that Pokémon popularity.

He wasn't the icon of 4th Gen. Only the Legendaries are the true icons. There's quite a difference. He's only an icon in the Anime via a movie. In fact, every single random character(Pichu and Lucario) happen to also have movie stuff too.

And Waluigi was popular before Lucario was. Once again, your statement isn't even provable. You think he might not be as popular.

Fun fact: There was a "Darth Vader for Brawl" and "Mickey Mouse for Brawl" threads. Just sayin'!

Ignoring threads for characters that aren't eligible, you have no point here. Waluigi is eligible. Try again.

ROB was a free attachment to the NES, and one of the NES' main selling points. He could dance, interact for a game or two, and was something you certainly didn't see on a game console before. ROB's game Gyromite was also a key NES launch title. The ROB attachment definitely helped end the North American video game crash of the early 1980's. You gotta love him just for that!

And everybody knew this? Nope. Too many players have started off with the Wii or GameCube alone. They'll remember him more likely from MKDS, UNLESS they actually researched Nintendo stuff, OR are very old, like in their 30's atleast. I didn't say he wasn't important at all. But you're acting like everybody knew this. How could they? I mean, some starting playing Brawl when they were 10 years old! The problem is, once again, you're acting like everybody is knowledgeable about everything in Nintendo history. This is not the case whatsoever. Not everybody is a researcher.

That's because I heard the "arguments" you give before Brawl came out, and I expect the same result as Brawl.

I'm still waiting for a good argument for keeping him out, which yours have all been disproven. There is no official Mario Canon, so that's out. He's memorable, more popular than you think(really, the first people I've asked about Waluigi? They'd gladly play as him), and he isn't a "bad" character by any means. Your arguments really no longer hold any water.

The only other characters who appeared in smash bros that appeared in series without a recent title or as one off characters were the sole main character in their respective game/series. I also doubt we will get a new Zelda character.

Peach got in well before Super Princess Peach. Luigi is just a supporting player in the Mario games, and the entire thing is based upon Mario doing it, not Luigi. The only game where Luigi is actually the main character is Mario is Missing, and who counts that game? Also, Ganondorf isn't the "sole main character" in Zelda. So your statement is actually quite incorrect as is. Try again. If you mean the set of main characters, I could agree with THAT, but what you're saying isn't true whatsoever. Sheik is only in one-game, so she's pretty much a one-off, ain't she? Wolf isn't actually playable till Assault, right? He's not a main playable character either. In fact, not everyone is by default. Also, no Pokemon besides Pikachu and Pokemon Trainer apply for that statement, same with Ganondorf and Sheik. Zelda's only playable in two officially non-canon games.(the rest are canon as of this time)

I do have some clues. I guessed nearly the entire Brawl roster right, minus the "WTF?" character (The Pokémon Trainer) and the retro character (R.O.B.). Plus I tend to guess things right. I was pretty close then, and I assume I will be pretty close again to the actual roster.

So you made one good guess. What about Melee and 64's roster? Were you also almost completely right on that? One time makes a great guesser, not an actual master of it. I could've guessed most of the roster too. In fact, none of it surprised me whatsoever save R.O.B. I found the rest rather obvious myself.

 

[Drclaw411]

Sakurai said a short while after Melee came out he couldn't imagine Toad being playable in smash. Granted, it's been nearly a decade since that statement and Toad has been in some big games and had some good roles. Yet, that quote remains, and questions remain as to whether Sakurai still feels that way about Toad. The source has been posted here, and I could look for it... but that would require too much work! I am pretty sure it was a legitimate source, though.

Sakurai sounded pretty pumped for a new smash bros games (as in he was not forced into it). It seems like some of the ideas he had left that weren't implemented in Brawl will probably be in Smash Bros. Wii U and 3DS. Can we start the Ridley parade already=???

He probably views this smash bros. game (concept) as a new game, just like he did with the previous 3 smash bros. games. If Sakurai's hyped, we ought to be, too!

Also, watch this video to become totally super awesome bro!

This is a good point. With Brawl, Sakurai found out he was making it while sitting in the E3 audience and watching it get announced. These new games were Sakurai's idea. He poured his heart and soul into Brawl. This time, he actually WANTS to make them. There's going to be a ton put into these games.

 

[Spydr Enzo]

Here's the thing about Toad and Sakurai's comment:

1) WHERE IS THE COMMENT? If the Almighty-Toad-Hater uttered these allegedly brutal and unredeemable words around a decade ago, why haven't they surfaced until now? Why are they STILL not around?

2) Whatever Sakurai said about Toad... it sounds rather trivial to me. Something that could definitely be forgotten within the span of a decade. Let's not forget his comments about Ridley and he he supposedly might not work either. That's another commentof Sakurai's that I don't take too seriously.

3) Again, the fact that this was said over a decade ago is key. Things have changed. All of the popular, familiar, and iconic Mario characters have been represented in the game, besides Toad. While looking at the few possibilities for viable candidates in any series, one may point out or Sakurai may take notice of Toad, since most of the characters that outshined him are already in the game.

4) A sentence uttered against Toad over a decade ago doesn't weigh up to everything else Toad has goign for him.


Finally, I will leave you all with THIS LINK. It links to a post I made several months ago where I typed up a massive essay in the collapsable text box. It concerns Toad. 'Nuff said.

I'm ouuta here. I'm tired and I gotta wake up in a couple hours... OH BOY.

 

[Zap tackle]

@ Shortie

If it is Sakurai's view you want, I am afraid that we may never really know about his point of view. Perhaps one day he might have his mind set on one thing and then another he might have a completely opposite idea. We will never know whether Sakurai really said that about Toad or what his view on him is like at the moment. I know this is an obvious answer; however, how much else can we do? We barely have any information concerning the developer's thoughts towards various characters, so we are just left to assume...

Like what Spydr just said, this piece of information is just a sentence long and barely known. We never saw it till 10 years later and this shows how insignificant it is. I barely remember things from over 10 years ago, so how would Sakurai remember something as obscure as this? He had a good reason in dismissing Toad in Melee as there were many characters still left to add (if he considered making Brawl). Now we have very few Nintendo all-stars to add in SSB4, and arguably Toad is one of them. Aside from this, I really don't know much else I can say to what you are expecting.

 

[Deleted member]

For those hoping for Genesect/Meleotta, I just found something that could make them possible for a 2012 movie.

--- brought up a pattern of event Pokemons in which the one with the smallest number goes first. Yet 5th gen already broke this. Zoroark movie came first, yet Victini is the first Pokemon in the Unova Pokedex. Meaning that they do not follow a pattern for event Pokemons by number and gives hope for Genesect and Meloetta to get in.

As for the Toad comment, promise this never leaves this forum. The last thing we need is for detractors on other forums to run around saying that Toad will never get in because of said sentence.

 

[---]

It's funny how we've already disproved Sakurai's Toad quote/made it not matter anymore, and the fact that there is no link to prove it, but we're still arguing about it.

@Spydr: Well it's nice to meet you for the first time, you look like you're going to be fun to have around for discussion.

@SSBF: lol That was at least 500 pages ago, and I didn't even count Zoroark a part of it like Lucario, Latias and Latios, and Lugia. But I do see your point though.

 

[Shorts]

Blahblahblah. I believe it's real. I've heard multiple people bring it up. Saying "I couldn't see Toad fighting" doesn't sound trivial. It sounds serious.

I'm still betting no on any Mario newcomers. If it's anyone, it will be Junior or Toad.

I don't care anymore. I have cookie dough. Me is happy.

We never saw it till 10 years later and this shows how insignificant it is. I barely remember things from over 10 years ago, so how would Sakurai remember something as obscure as this?

Like this: Toad? How would he fight? Ends Toad.

4) A sentence uttered against Toad over a decade ago doesn't weigh up to everything else Toad has goign for him

If it's Sakurai, it matters more than ANYTHING Toad has ever done? Sakurai is stronger than Toad supporters.

Enough about the loser.

 

[---]

Well when I go back through the info thread, I'll take a look into this little "myth" of ours and see if I can be the next one to find it, and also be smart enough to save a link to it.

@SSBF: Adding on to what I stated back then, if I can remember, Zoroark was a promotional Pokemon like Lucario, the Eon twins, and Lugia. So I didn't count them or Zoroark when I said that.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

The only one that I remember seeing a note for was that he didn't think Animal Crosser would work. And even then, I don't think that means anything for SSB4. Likewise, Toad has a fair chance of getting in anyway.

As do any other characters expect perhaps third party obscure characters(Brian). The rest? Why wouldn't they? As long as its fits Sakurai's criteria, which Toad INDEFINITELY does, probably more than Jr. anyway. (obviously, few know about Brian, although I won't lie that Quest 64 is getting a cult following as is.)

 

[Oasis_S]

The thing with the Villager was probably less that it couldn't work, but shouldn't be done. Fighting is just not what Animal Crossing's about. The hazardless Smashville reflects the CALM AND PEACEFUL nature of the series pretty well.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Captain Falcon really doesn't fight most of the time either. In fact, in the games, we never see it happen. Maybe vehicles bumping into eachother, but that's not the same thing.

R.O.B. never fought either. I just don't think that's really true. And you can easily fight in Animal Crossing via angering the characters.

Of course, if you mean dishing out damage... R.O.B., Mr. Game & Watch... have they ever done this whatsoever? Olimar barely fights too. It's mostly the Pikmin.

Trust me, AC isn't as peaceful as you think it is, Oasis. It wants to be peaceful, but all the time...? Hardly. Just like real life, people have problems.

 

[Oasis_S]

MY GOODNESS I wish you could hear yourself.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

So my point perfectly stands since you're unable to refute it. Good to know. *puts on sunglasses*

 

[Oasis_S]

I would hope everyone here understands why you're a silly goose so I didn't have to bother refuting junk.

 

[ChronoBound]

As for the Toad comment, promise this never leaves this forum. The last thing we need is for detractors on other forums to run around saying that Toad will never get in because of said sentence.

Yes, it would pretty much crush the Toad fanbase outside of SmashBoards considering how rabid his detractors are (especially on GameFAQs). However, Sakurai flat out saying that including Roy was his idea is still ignored by the Roy detractors on GameFAQs and they still say he was forced in by Intelligent Systems. So what Sakurai says can also be a situational thing. If I do see a link in regards to Sakurais supposed that Toad can't be playable due to not being able to fight (didn't Super Mario Bros. 2 and Wario's Woods already exist then?), then my expectations for Toad being playable will drop a ton. However, there is also the possibility that the massive success of New Super Mario Bros. Wii could have changed his mind on the character. With Bowser Jr. being absent from Super Mario 3D Land and possible Mario Kart 7, I think its possible that Sakurai may even decide that Mario is "complete" and does not need a newcomer. I think Paper Mario might become the best bet in regards to a Mario newcomer, however, that really depends whether Sakurai thinks that character is needed (he has no qualm with including a second Mario seeing as Dr. Mario was in Melee, and was considered to be brought back in Brawl).

It's funny how we've already disproved Sakurai's Toad quote/made it not matter anymore, and the fact that there is no link to prove it, but we're still arguing about it.

I would appreciate it if you found it. If that is the case that Sakurai does not think much of Toad as a fighter, then I will put little stock in supporting him, and he will simply be a "pleasant surprise" character for me.

On the topic of me possibly supporting Ghirahim, it seems SmashChu (who has played Skyward Sword) does not think the character was done well. At the very least I think he looks more interesting than any non-Ganon antagonist yet in the Zelda series, however, that is not saying much.

If Palutena and Medusa are well done in Uprising perhaps I can get behind those two. Still there are very few characters that I personally support for Smash 4 (at least those that which have a reasonable shot at getting in).

 

[Shorts]

Sakurai: "Meh, AC isn't supposed to be violent, I'll just quit now."

HyperFalcon: "I don't agree with Sakurai, the creator of Smash and the ultimate judge on who gets in, therefore they have as good of a chance as everyone else!"

Someone find the quote. If anyone has links but doesn't feel like looking, show them. I'm bored and ready. What's Toad's translated name? Kinopio is it.

Toad, Peach's longtime servant, first showed off his strength in Super Mario Bros. 2, then proved to be an agile driver in Super Mario Kart. There are many Toads in Peach's castle and across the Mushroom Kingdom, and although they look similar, they have varied natures. Not the best of guards, Toad must often be rescued.

One of the servants at Peach's Castle in the Mushroom Kingdom. Toads give off a strong sense of peace. Most feature white heads with red polka dots, but there are other colors as well. Toad's incredible uprooting speed in Super Mario Bros. 2 is unrivaled, adding to the rumor of his superhuman strength... however out of place it might seem.

Uh oh.