New Smash Bros for WiiU

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Paper Mario I think is a near shoe-in. Something about him reminds me of King Dedede. He just... seems perfect and destined for the next Smash Bros. game. I dunno why. If I had to bet my life on whether Toad would make it or not in Smash 4 as a playable character, I would have to say no. Having said that, I think Toad still has a nice shot.

Going to disagree that he's "destined". No one is. Honestly, I don't hold hope for another Mario.

Simon would be a sweet second Konami character. That or Psycho Mantis. "I will now make your controller... VIBRATE!!!"

I'll go for the guy with less fourth wall breaking.

A Boshi Yoshi skin would be awesome, although a Croco skin would be super awesome!

That too.

That's Waluigi's problem. A lot of people want him, but nobody would not buy the game if he didn't make it, or would flip out like some of us did when Mewtwo, Ridley, or Mega Man didn't make it in Brawl, or Wario, King Dedede, or Diddy Kong didn't make it in Melee. If Waluigi didn't make it, most Waluigi fans would be upset, but not seriously ticked off.

Fans didn't exactly avoid the game because Toad wasn't playable either. Pretty much very few characters will get the "If they're not in, the game's avoided." That'd be more like Mario, Link, Pikachu, Kirby, Donkey Kong... and probably some others. The ultimate big guns sell the most.

The only time I was ever as mad as I was when Mewtwo, Ridley, and Mega Man didn't make it in Brawl was when I took Vikadine painkillers that made me go crazy, nearly assault my family, cuss out my family, throw paper plates at my family, and bang my head against a wall. And then I woke up... in pain unaware of what happened. My family hadn't even seen me mad before, and all of a sudden I was raging because of... well... (legal) drugs... (my dumb wisdom teeth had to suck!)

Didn't make me mad at all. I would've liked 'em, but I thought the roster was near perfection.(3rd Gen missing, besides that, no actual complaints, mostly "would've liked")

Okay well if you want "real answers," you got to ask would they consider not buying any future smash bros. installments in Waluigi was not a playable character (hacks aside). I'm not doubting Waluigi would make them happy or they would love to play as him, but that really determines a characters' merit. Sonic definitely sold hundreds of thousands of copies of Brawl alone.

Because Sonic is a big gun. If it was someone like Bonk, it would've made no difference. Toad's not exactly anymore of a big gun either.

I can usually tell when something, like say a certain sports team is destined to win a championship, a person is about to get a good grade on a test, a candidate is destined to win a race for a political position, or a character get into smash bros. Of course, that may also be due to my deep understanding of human body language, and interpreting what a individual's body language means. That's actually how I formed most of my idea on Sakurai and his thought process, actually.

Ah. I tend to rather avoid trying to be perfect in my predictions myself.

@Berserker: And that ultimately doesn't matter. So he's important. That speaks nothing unless people want to play as him. Yes, people want to play as Toad. People want to play as Waluigi too. You've named a few more games where the main Toad is definitely in. ...That's not really proving much whatsoever.

@Luco: Ash was never in the games, expect possibly Pokemon Yellow and I know he was in Puzzle League. Ash was always based upon Red's design, not the other way around. Pokemon Trainer was based upon Red in the first place. His design is the same as the FireRed/LeafGreen design.

 

[Starphoenix]

If people are going to claim that somebody (Sakurai) has said something they need to back it up with a link and the quotes proper context, otherwise don't start spouting garbage. I don;t care how many people online say something is true the quantity of people believing something does not validate the information. You can have a massive group of ignorant people. How many times was I told over the years that Meowth was close to being a playable fighter in Super Smash Bros for the 64, and guess what? It is not true, but only a well spread myth. It is because of stuff like that that I want something more than "well a lot of guys brought so and so up." Surprisingly this misinformation is quite common when it comes to Sakurai. This poor man is the subject of countless sentence twisting and improper contextual extrapolations.

Sorry guys, not biting on this sudden revelation pertaining to Toad. I do not remember it back then and I certainly do not now.

I find it funny that after like, thirty years Toad's popularity is "suddenley growing". It's never been small... and still hasn't gotten him in so far~

Just like Ridley and King K. Rool, correct?

 

[Arcadenik]

You know... out of the potential four Mario newcomers: Toad, Bowser Jr., Waluigi, and Paper Mario... Toad is the biggest gun compared to them.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Paper Mario sells games because he's Paper Mario. There is no "Toad" game. He's really not a "big gun" until people buy games because of him.

Paper Mario's the biggest gun of those four overall. He has his own games, he's also still Mario, which is part of what makes it sell. I'm pretty sure a "big gun" means they gotta be atleast one of the main characters consistently throughout a series. Only Paper Mario can say that overall. He's the big gun. Toad's a secondary character. Bowser Jr. is closer to a near main villain, basically on the status Peach almost. I don't need to explain Waluigi at all.

 

[Metal Overlord]

So as much as I hate to say this, if K. Rool/Dixie Kong do not appeared in Smash 4, they're likely done for and could very well be retired completely. I feel as many other potential candidates will not get in if they are not playable in SSB4.

This is only assuming another Smash game actually happens, which I personally doubt...

 

[Starphoenix]

Paper Mario sells games because he's Paper Mario. There is no "Toad" game. He's really not a "big gun" until people buy games because of him.

Paper Mario's the biggest gun of those four overall. He has his own games, he's also still Mario, which is part of what makes it sell. I'm pretty sure a "big gun" means they gotta be atleast one of the main characters consistently throughout a series. Only Paper Mario can say that overall. He's the big gun. Toad's a secondary character. Bowser Jr. is closer to a near main villain, basically on the status Peach almost. I don't need to explain Waluigi at all.

Instead of delving into a bloated, nitpicking essay I am simply going to state my point.

Not true.

Also, why is it all of a sudden people give a flying flip about Waluigi? Seriously, no one cared about him before why all of a sudden now? It's like that ugly family dog that everyone kicks around until it dies and then people wish they could have him back as they discover newfound feelings of affection for him. How sad.

 

[---]

Well I haven't found anything yet on that quote. lol

But I do agree Star, I pretty much stated the same thing last night. It's funny how often things get repeated on this thread. lol

Right now it's only a rumor we've created among ourselves, and like any rumor, it should not be taken seriously until proven.

Also lets not let it spread until we get some proof or we can disprove it, we don't need this spreading on to sites like Gamefaqs.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Instead of delving into a bloated, nitpicking essay I am simply going to state my point.

Not true.

Too bad it is. Toad was never on the same scale as Mario, or Donkey Kong, or Link. He's not the ultimate game seller and never has been. He's always been a secondary game character, and really doesn't play a huge role besides being Peach's guard.(which he does in Melee and Brawl anyway) Beyond that? He either annoys or helps Mario with various items.

The only notable ones is the main Toad... who is rarely pointed out in-game which is which. Toadsworth is notable, Toadette is notable only because of her name and being in more than one game. That's really it. The ones in New Super Mario Bros. Wii are clearly not the main Toad, and only count as the race being playable. Believing they're the main Toad in the game is completely illogical.

Toad has always been a secondary character. It's part of his status. I mean, it's not like he's in every game... oh, wait, just most of them.

Also, why is it all of a sudden people give a flying flip about Waluigi? Seriously, no one cared about him before why all of a sudden now?

They've always cared about him. They're just voicing their opinions more openly again due to having character speculation. Ever since Baby Daisy appeared in Mario Kart Wii, it made HIM look good. He's went from the Scrappy status, to Ensemble Darkhorse ever since.

 

[Starphoenix]

Ahh there is that Falcon linear thinking I've come to observe. Problem is you have to think outside of the box and stop looking at one side of the coin while forgetting the other mi amigo.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

None of what I said wasn't true, though.

If you can't prove me wrong, then I'm right until you do. That's how debates work.

 

[Deleted member]

Instead of delving into a bloated, nitpicking essay I am simply going to state my point.

Not true.

Also, why is it all of a sudden people give a flying flip about Waluigi? Seriously, no one cared about him before why all of a sudden now? It's like that ugly family dog that everyone kicks around until it dies and then people wish they could have him back as they discover newfound feelings of affection for him. How sad.

It's really just HyperFalcon and a few outsiders defending him. Most still agree here that he is unworthy. Now if you want to see real support of him, go to That Place That Shall Not Be Named.

 

[Metal Overlord]

Most still agree here that he is unworthy.

Ugh...

There is absolutely nothing to suggest that Waluigi is "unworthy". Nothing.

 

[Starphoenix]

None of what I said wasn't true, though.

If you can't prove me wrong, then I'm right until you do. That's how debates work.

That is the first error, I'm not debating. I have learned that debates here are pointless and only serve to agitate the environment in this thread. Instead I have taken the "Twitter" approach and try to summarize my points into short little quips. I simply take interest in how you take such ahh... Strict view on things. It really fascinates me, and considering I am a little bored at the moment I just wanted to try and add to the debate. Besides, somebody will more then likely touch most of the points I want to anyways. Just be patient.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

That is the first error, I'm not debating. I have learned that debates here are pointless and only serve to agitate the environment in this thread. Instead I have taken the "Twitter" approach and try to summarize my points into short little quips. I simply take interest in how you take such ahh... Strict view on things. It really fascinates me, and considering I am a little bored at the moment I just wanted to try and add to the debate. Besides, somebody will more then likely touch most of the points I want to anyways. Just be patient.

And that's the problem. If you cannot prove your point whatsoever, then it doesn't work. If you actually want me to see YOUR point, then YOU have to do it.

Toad's always been a secondary character, not among the ultimate main ones. We both know that. He's fairly close to main character status, but that only really applies in the TV Shows, and like... 1 games? SMB2. The MAIN Toad isn't playable in NSMBWii. He can't be, as there's two Toads. Both generic Toads we all have seen plenty of times. They don't even have official names, just NICKNAMES. Huh, imagine that.

 

[---]

Well it seems that all of this is opinion based with nothing really backing either side up.

So might I ask why we're arguing this? Or is everyone just that ignorant?


Waluigi is in the character pool to get in, deal with it people.

Whether or not he's deserving or not is all up you, not that it matters to begin with, or do I need to get out Sakurai's character criteria again?

I gotta say, I'm sick of all these "deserving, not deserving" wars. IMO you're all acting no better than the alliances that are sure to start up soon.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Note how I never said Toad was undeserving, though.

I personally think other characters should get in first, but I even said before that outside of Third Party's and super obscure games, any character has a reasonable chance.

 

[---]

^^So why is everyone arguing over nothing? That's my question.


It's funny how Chrono's prediction is already coming true.

 

[Metal Overlord]

Well it seems that all of this is opinion based with nothing really backing either side up.

So might I ask why we're arguing this? Or is everyone just that ignorant?


Waluigi is in the character pool to get in, deal with it people.

Whether or not he's deserving or not is all up you, not that it matters to begin with, or do I need to get out Sakurai's character criteria again?

I gotta say, I'm sick of all these "deserving, not deserving" wars. IMO you're all acting no better than the alliances that are sure to start up soon.

Took the words right out of my mouth.

The only time I'd say the "deserving" argument could be brought up without serious problems are for tertiary characters (like Goombas or random NPCs). But Waluigi isn't one of those so he can get in just as easily as any other character (and yes, that includes characters like Little Mac, Mewtwo, Ridley, Takamaru, or any other the Smash community generally agrees upon).

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I dunno. They're just being silly.

I don't think Toad's any more deserving than most of the other Mario characters as is. Which means, nothing is undeserving or deserving either, since they're on equal ground. Thus, I have no idea why they're trying to say otherwise(since really, we can't decide that anyway, only Sakurai can)

And Metal Overlord brings it home perfectly.

 

[Starphoenix]

Now now now Falcon, turn off the caps and say please and just maybe I'd be able to oblige your request. :*

Why so angry TriHyphen? This thread isn't serious, so you shouldn't take it as so. It isn't healthy. You'll age prematurely and weaken your heart. No reason to do that now. As far as Chrono's prediction I am not surprised. This thread has more cycles than Dissidia Final Fantasy. Only without the swords and magic.

Too bad, I'm working real hard to make it to Kefka status...

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

^^ And that's why I'mma change topics. I was thinking earlier(and I now realize this is a bad idea because of the SHEER NUMBER of options you'd have), "What about team names, like in Mario Party?" Like, Princess and Dragon for a Peach-Bowser team or Treasure Hunters for a Starfy-Wario team.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I'm hoping for more Team stuff as well due to that. That was one of the best features that Mario Party 4 started. Team Names! And teams in general.

Also, I'd love for Terra to be playable and Kefka to be a boss.

 

[---]

@Star: Sorry if I came off that way. I'm just tired and a bit cranky at the fact that we've been on this discussion for the past few days and nothing is being accomplished.

I just want everyone to agree to disagree so we can move onto another topic.

I must say though, angry? I find that funny coming from someone as serious as you.

 

[Metal Overlord]

^^ And that's why I'mma change topics. I was thinking earlier(and I now realize this is a bad idea because of the SHEER NUMBER of options you'd have), "What about team names, like in Mario Party?" Like, Princess and Dragon for a Peach-Bowser team or Treasure Hunters for a Starfy-Wario team.

I actually like this idea, but why not just give every obvious matchup (like Mario and Luigi) a default team name, and if the players want to change it or make their own up for their two characters, they can just do one of those instead of choosing from a bunch of premade suggestions...

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

I'm hoping for more Team stuff as well due to that. That was one of the best features that Mario Party 4 started. Team Names! And teams in general.

Also, I'd love for Terra to be playable and Kefka to be a boss.

Wow. Shocking. Someone actually thinks this is a good idea. Well then, what are some of your ideas?

I have a really good one for G&W and ROB team. They are Blast from the Past.


@Metal: Like, an option to make your own team names? Choose one character, then choose another, and then your own team name? GENIUS. PURE GENIUS.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Wow. Shocking. Someone actually thinks this is a good idea. Well then, what are some of your ideas?

I have a really good one for G&W and ROB team. They are Blast from the Past.

Well... besides obvious ones from the first game like "Mario Bros!"

Kirby + Jigglypuff = Puffballs
R.O.B. + Samus = Robo Buddies
Sonic + Mario = Power Rivalry
Link + Toon/Young Link = A Link to the Mast
Bowser + Mario = Dark Heroics
Link + Ganondorf = Destiny Bond
Link + Zelda = Excuse me! Princess!
Sonic + Snake = KoSega Warriors

All I can think of off the top of my head.

 

[Metal Overlord]

@Poppy- Yep. Lol you really think so?

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

@Poppy- Yep. Lol you really think so?

Yep. It'll also pop up on the victory screen, but to save space, the narrator will still only say Blue, Red, and Green Team.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I think that's why I like programmed versions. We can then hear the announcer yell it out.

Also, imagine what'll happen in Classic mode. Two characters? You get to hear them actually say those words. Having predetermined ones gives more of a feel to it. Making 'em up is sweet too.

 

[Oasis_S]

Waluigi and the Duck Hunt dog's team name: Assist Trophies.

 

[Opossum]

Marth and Little Mac: The One-Attack Wonders

Olimar and Captain Falcon: The Two Captains

Ice Climbers and Muddy Mole: Retro Rumblers

Samus and Ridley: Death.

 

[Arcadenik]

Waluigi and the Duck Hunt dog's team name: Assist Trophies.

Ridley and Krystal's team name: Stickers

 

[Oasis_S]

...Awh man. *kicks dust*

 

[yani_]

Ridley and Krystal's team name: Stickers

Mewtwo and Roy's team name.. oh wait

 

[---]

Captain Falcon and Falco: Falcon Punch

 

[yani_]

Mewtwo and Pichu: HM01

 

[Propeller Toad]

Toad and Victini = Newcomers :D

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Yoshi + Kirby: Big Eaters
Wario + Mario: Big Man Walking
Marth + Ike: By the Power of Grayskull!

 

[Opossum]

Mewtwo and Pichu: HM01

I really hope I wasn't the only one to get this joke...pretty funny xD

On another note, I'm thinking of making a Muddy Mole alliance. Anyone interested in joining?

 

[Conviction]

Iblis Summer Time.

All of you are being derps. This post needs music, listen to this while reading

Took the words right out of my mouth.

The only time I'd say the "deserving" argument could be brought up without serious problems are for tertiary characters (like Goombas or random NPCs). But Waluigi isn't one of those so he can get in just as easily as any other character (and yes, that includes characters like Little Mac, Mewtwo, Ridley, Takamaru, or any other the Smash community generally agrees upon).

I disagree with the italicized.

Want to know why I disagree? It's because most of how someone feels on who should get in is based opinion and bias. There is no true objective way to choose a roster. Until you numbskulls can actually understand that pointless debates such as these will continue.

No, there isn't an objective way what-so-ever to complete a roster.

I'll elaborate further if need be.

As of now, that's just wrong.

Note how I never said Toad was undeserving, though.

I personally think other characters should get in first, but I even said before that outside of Third Party's and super obscure games, any character has a reasonable chance.

What not only you, but others in this damn thread need understand is. There is a point where you *****s just have to agree to disagree. There is a point where you can tell well "X" is so adamant about "Character 31" getting in over "Character U291O". That's where you've reached a mental impass, a stalemate, and should just drop the whole thing.

Your trains of thoughts are never going cross to a point where someone will be converted. It's more than obvious this is the case right now.

Continuing this further makes any you look like idiots.

But I do agree Star, I pretty much stated the same thing last night. It's funny how often things get repeated on this thread. lol


Also lets not let it spread until we get some proof or we can disprove it, we don't need this spreading on to sites like Gamefaqs.

@Bolded: It's not funny anymore it's damn annoying. I've stated this full circle theory plenty of times. I thought it was actually over but after reading this recent garbage it seems it just decided to take a backseat for while and now it's coming back.

@Italics: This is true. People stop clamoring about your bias being truth or written down law.