New Smash Bros for WiiU

[Berserker.]

Hey Oasis, you might wanna use this picture some day for teh lulz:

Spoiler

 

[Shorts]

You should have said the pink recolor was a reference to Kat Monroe. Good call on Panther though. I hadn't thought of her changing fur colors. She should have a green color that resembles Moldy Kong.

KAT MONROE IS NO LONGER PINK! She's grey and white. Pigma is pale, dying pink.

 

[Oasis_S]

KAT MONROE IS NO LONGER PINK! She's grey and white. Pigma is pale, dying pink.

Tell that to Star Fox 64 3DS.

@Broserker: I'm surprised you remembered.

 

[Shorts]

Tell that to Star Fox 64 3DS.

You know what happens to SF purists. They burn at the Staff. WELL SHE GOT A FUR DYE LATER IN LIFE. It's a painful procedure. Way to bring it up Oasis. JERK.

 

[Berserker.]

@Brosis: Remembered that you like Ridleypoo-- I mean Deadpool?

Or is it about America?

 

[SmashChu]

@SmashChu: There is no "standard" for playing Smash. You can have anywhere between 2-4 players onscreen at once. In fact, many people who first got the game might've only had a single person. So 1 on 1 with items and any stages would be another possible standard. Because of the design of the game, the only people that makes the standards are the customers. And guess what? Everybody has their own way. Thus, there can only be standards by how a person does it. My standard is 1 vs 1 with no items and non-cheap stages. Yours is with 4-way with all items and all stages. Neither of us are wrong. That's life.

There is a standard. It's pretty much not tournament play.

The biggest complaint to competitive Smash has been that they play a totally different game. Remember "NO ITEMS, FOX ONLY FINAL DESTINATION." That pretty much is the everyone else saying "Look at these silly guys. They aren't playing Smash Brothers at all."

Smash was always made with 4 players in mind as well as some combination of items and stages. Changing modes does change balance, but the problem with competitive Smash is they go WAY in one direction. It ignores a lot, which is why the balance is wrong. Of course, it always comes back to them saying "Baw, Sakurai can't balance the game. He is so stupid," even though they mess it up by turning everything off, even a lot of the stages and final smashes.

Back to Ganondorf. The reason I say he's fine is because he plays like most power characters, just that he;s slower and kills at 60. If you play safe and smart, you can go in for a good hit and get a nice KO or two. Items help as they support every character and helps to mitigate their individual weaknesses.

P.S. Oasis's Goroh color needs to be in the game. Brilliant.

 

[Berserker.]

My only option with Ganondorf: Hope for an opportunity to meteor smash with d-air.

 

[---]

Hmm, what could be done to Ganondorf to improve him overall? I'm curious as I don't main him or use him at all (he's my least used character next to Link).

 

[JavaCroc]

And here is my latest stage concept after a hiatus. This time I'll be attempting to create a stage based on a game that hasn't been released yet.

It's the Wild West as seen in Dillon's Rolling Western. A graphic-intensive sunset shines upon the stage, cloaking everything in a slight orange hue. Wind hauntingly blows across this desert, and tumbleweeds roll in the wind's direction. In the distance one can see a large mission perch upon a small hill outcropping, as well as numerous natural rock formations and several armed towers presumably built by Dillon himself. Although the area in which players fight consists of your generic barren desert of cacti and dry ground, in the distance one can see short clumps of grass dotting the landscape.

The stage itself is located on a dirt path that can be seen trailing off from the stage area into the horizon. On both sides of the stage formations of limestone and granite rock poke into the stage - these outcroppings act as solid platforms.

The main gimmick of this stage are the rock creatures that occasionally roam about individually. If a player comes into contact with one of these creatures, a battle with them occurs! An "fence" of orange electric current surrounds the stage in a square formation, and the exclamation "Fight!" quickly pops on and off the screen. Then the rock creatures herd into the stage. Although they don't come in too large of numbers and don't directly attack players, any player who comes in contact with them takes minor-to-moderate damage from contact with them.

The rock creatures come in three varieties:

• Minion - The smallest of the creatures, they remain docile unless provoked by a player. If a players contacts them, they attack back with a headbutt that inflicts minor damage. 3-4 Minions can be present on the stage at once.
• Giant - These titans of rock are large enough that when they walk through the stage, they destroy any platforms they walk into! Much like the Minions, they only attack on contact, and even then they don't have to do much but shake a bit to deal a moderate amount of damage on players. 0-1 Giants can be present on the stage at once.
• Cannon - These two-legged rock beasts crouch down on their legs on the edges of the stage and fire cannons across the stage. These cannons explode on contact with players. 0-1 Cannon enemy can be present on the stage at once.

While the rock creatures are entering the battlefield, Dillon's towers in the background will be firing at them. Players won't have to (and won't be able to) attack the creatures as the towers will shatter them into shards of rock.

Some other minor gimmicks are present. On some areas of the ground, Manju Grass plants from the game will sprout up and grow. If these plants are hit, they explode in a gathering of leaves while out of the explosion and then pop back out of the ground at normal shrunken size. In addition, one can occasionally hear the mission's bell strike out a melody.



--- Stage Example ---
.............................___
........_____
_l_______o____o____o__l_


___ = indicates ground floor
l = indicates where the "electric fence" appears during fights with the rock creatures
___ = indicate rock outcroppings that poke into the stage (a.k.a. usable platforms)
o = indicates Manju Grass


Stage Name: The Rolling West
Stage Icon: Dillon's cowboy hat

--- Music ---

Since Rolling Western hasn't released and thus there isn't music for it outside the trailers, I got creative and chose music from miscellaneous Nintendo games.

Italics = Indicate unlockable song

Steel Diver - Title Screen
Pokemon Black / White - Desert Resort
Fossil Fighters - King Dynal Battle
Doshin the Giant - The Barthes Island
Golden Sun - Desert Heat
Battle Clash - Lorca's Theme
Chibi-Robo - Funkmaster Flower Training
Tin Star - Tin Star
For the Frog the Bell Tolls - The Prince's Adventure
Super Smash Bros. Brawl - Gritzy Desert

And also the unlikely or impossible but still awesome choices of musics:

Mega Man 6 - Tomahawk Man's Stage
Red Dead Redemption - El Club de los Cuerpos
Red Dead Redemption - Far Away

I'll be needing help with the music, obviously.

 

[SmashChu]

My only option with Ganondorf: Hope for an opportunity to meteor smash with d-air.

He has more moves than that. heck, a lot of his moves KO from 50-80. No need to rely on that one move.

The only thing I think he needs to some nice reversal type moves. His Kick move could be flinch resistant for instance. Maybe have his choke move move through projectiles?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Good luck with winning with Ganondorf outside of a 4-player Brawl. Which is the problem. He rarely will unless you're playing a really bad player.

And they aren't playing a different game. All those options are to do whatever you want. The game was designed to choose whether you want items on or not, not to only have them on. If they were the actual STANDARD, you couldn't have them off.

Sakurai's entire intention is that everybody should be able to enjoy the game however they want. He never said there was only one way to play the game. Don't put words into his mouth. Casual is just the opposite of competitive. They don't follow a set standard. That's pretty much what casual is. Even casual players hates aspects of Brawl. They also take off stages and items they don't want. So stop saying there's only way to play the game, which is incorrect by its design.

Also, competitive players are playing the game exactly how it should be played, with specific settings that were allowed within the game. The only people playing it wrong are the hackers, nobody else. Your thinly veiled view of the game is clouding actual facts: The game was designed for anyone to enjoy it any way they wish.

 

[---]

@Java: Good work, you should show it to Star where ever he is.

As for music, I can't really help you other then suggesting to look at Pokemon (R/S, D/P and B/W had desert themed areas) and to use Tomahawk Man's Theme.

 

[Berserker.]

He has more moves than that. heck, a lot of his moves KO from 50-80. No need to rely on that one move.

Just saying that cause I suck with Ganondorf.
[collapse=Ganondorf's moves]
Neutral A - All around imo.
F-tilt - Too short ranged and it's punishable at the ending but it is quick
D-tilt - Awesome move with Ganondorf. Long range and fair power
U-tilt - Sucks
F-smash - Okay I guess BUT it's too punishable. Luckily, the disjointed hitbox is something to be happy about
D-smash - Sucks
U-smash - Not a great move against grounded opponents but good against air borne opponents.
N-air - Meh
F-air - I enjoy using this move for some reason despite the lag. It's actually useful.
D-air - Best
U-air - Best
B-air - Too short ranged BUT it is incredibly powerful and quick

All Specials (Except for Murder choke)- Sucks
Muder choke - Best
[/collapse]
Among those moves, I only use like um... 5 of them only since the rest are unsafe

 

[Drclaw411]

In the SSE, everybody had a chance to be partners. Link and Zelda teamed up with Ganondorf, after all. So I believe they could team up outside of trickery.

@SmashChu: There is no "standard" for playing Smash. You can have anywhere between 2-4 players onscreen at once. In fact, many people who first got the game might've only had a single person. So 1 on 1 with items and any stages would be another possible standard. Because of the design of the game, the only people that makes the standards are the customers. And guess what? Everybody has their own way. Thus, there can only be standards by how a person does it. My standard is 1 vs 1 with no items and non-cheap stages. Yours is with 4-way with all items and all stages. Neither of us are wrong. That's life.

 

[---]

@Java: I found another good desert song, this time from Golden Sun - Desert Heat

Also that Partners in Time song from the Mushroomy Kingdom stage.

 

[Berserker.]

@Lateedittobrosis: Is it about that American Goroh you drew?

 

[JavaCroc]

@Java: I found another good desert song, this time from Golden Sun - Desert Heat

Also that Partners in Time song from the Mushroomy Kingdom stage.

Alright, thanks man. I should have enough music now. I also added as additional but unlikely music choices the Tomahawk Man theme and some great tunes from Red Dead Redemption.

 

[Shorts]

This song is much too epic for a Rolling Western stage, but I could fit in at a Golden Sun, Legend Of Zelda, Final Destination, OR Fire Emblem stage, for sure.

The Last Story - Order and Chaos (Normal Battle Theme)

Jiro's cool thing in my eyes was his name. It made him sly. Now that he's Dillon....ugh. How uncool?

Another cool song that reminds me of a Zora level/Kingdom hearts peaceful area.

The Last Story - Ruli Castle

 

[JavaCroc]

Jiro's cool thing in my eyes was his name. It made him sly. Now that he's Dillon....ugh. How uncool?

Another cool song that reminds me of a Zora level/Kingdom hearts peaceful area.

The Last Story - Ruli Castle

Yah, the name was one of the factors going towards his popularity. Now he's named Dillon. What a boring change of name.

Last Story has some great music. It's even got it's own unintentional rip-off of 101 Dalmations musics. If only it releases in America.

 

[Shorts]

Yah, the name was one of the factors going towards his popularity. Now he's named Dillon. What a boring change of name.

Last Story has some great music. It's even got it's own unintentional rip-off of 101 Dalmations musics. If only it releases in America.

lol I know! And yeah. The game NEEDS to hit America. IT MUST~

 

[Deleted member]

lol I know! And yeah. The game NEEDS to hit America. IT MUST~

If the game reaches American shore (if it can get to Australia, why not America?), I will buy it.

 

[soviet prince]

has this been posted

http://www.tgdaily.com/games-and-en...3-wii-u-game-super-smash-bros-universe-leaked

 

[---]

This song is much too epic for a Rolling Western stage, but I could fit in at a Golden Sun, Legend Of Zelda, Final Destination, OR Fire Emblem stage, for sure.

The Last Story - Order and Chaos (Normal Battle Theme)

I like that song, I may want to add it to my Dragon's Altar stage concept.

 

[Shorts]

If the game reaches American shore (if it can get to Australia, why not America?), I will buy it.

I'm betting it will. Definitely.

Anyways, WHAT? a NON Pokemon song that fits in a Pokemon stage!?!

Hell yes~

Drill Dozer - 3rd Gear

I also think this song could fit in a lot of places, depending on how it's done.

Drill Dozer - Skullker Factory and Clink Prison

Good god we need this song.

Legend Of Zelda: Twilight Princess - Sacred Grove

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

has this been posted

http://www.tgdaily.com/games-and-en...3-wii-u-game-super-smash-bros-universe-leaked

Not sure if on here, but it was found on many other sites. Also, Sakurai said that no development was started.

This could be real, as basic outlines don't really count as "development" so much as an idea of floor plans.

Also, there's a lot of stuff on here that is bad. No plans for F-Zero and Earthbound to grow bigger is the biggest problem.

Anyway, I don't ultimately trust this one.

 

[Oasis_S]

Shorts, neither of those two TLS songs were Meowmeowmeowmeowmeow~.

@Broserker: IT WAS DEADPOOL.

 

[SmashChu]

Good luck with winning with Ganondorf outside of a 4-player Brawl. Which is the problem. He rarely will unless you're playing a really bad player.

And they aren't playing a different game. All those options are to do whatever you want. The game was designed to choose whether you want items on or not, not to only have them on. If they were the actual STANDARD, you couldn't have them off.

Sakurai's entire intention is that everybody should be able to enjoy the game however they want. He never said there was only one way to play the game. Don't put words into his mouth. Casual is just the opposite of competitive. They don't follow a set standard. That's pretty much what casual is. Even casual players hates aspects of Brawl. They also take off stages and items they don't want. So stop saying there's only way to play the game, which is incorrect by its design.

Also, competitive players are playing the game exactly how it should be played, with specific settings that were allowed within the game. The only people playing it wrong are the hackers, nobody else. Your thinly veiled view of the game is clouding actual facts: The game was designed for anyone to enjoy it any way they wish.

I think your backing up because you can't argue the point. Rather than argue competitive play, you can back out of it by trying to say there is no set way to play.

This is true to an extent, but it is pretty clear this was the intention from the start. Note that the game is advertised as a 4 player game, started out as on (look at the original idea from the Iwata Ask). Sakurai also mentioned it on the Dojo.

Yes, the game has a lot of options, but that doesn't mean he takes great care in doing balance across the board because it is almost impossible (also not including the single player modes). The reason I say that it is balanced for 4vs (or Standard) is that that is the default and the main purpose of the game. Everything else is just gravy. At the very least, they tried to make it with a good amount of factors so that if some things change (stages, number of players, items) the game would pretty much stay balanced, or close to some for of it. Turning everything off skews it. And it obviously does. How so? Sakurai has said that from online data, every character preforms about the same. So something isn't right in this picture and I'm saying that competitive players have managed to change the balance.

The whole standard thing is not that important when we really get to it. I'm saying it's standard because that is how most people play it, how you'll probably play it online, how it's advertised and is the default settings. Thus, standard.

Your language prove to me your going down this train of thought because you can't argue the one we were on. You can't say that competitive play isn't different and their way is normal or would work the same changing the scenario. So make everything be null and say there is no norm. Your comments aren't even staying in line with mine.

 

[Shorts]

I've know about Meowx5(People who know about that song, call it that) since, like, forever! I actully got a copy a week before release because I'm friends with the guy who made the game because I made this song.

Pokemon Platinum - Vs. Giratina The New age Lavender Town.

 

[---]

Not sure if on here, but it was found on many other sites. Also, Sakurai said that no development was started.

This could be real, as basic outlines don't really count as "development" so much as an idea of floor plans.

Also, there's a lot of stuff on here that is bad. No plans for F-Zero and Earthbound to grow bigger is the biggest problem.

Anyway, I don't ultimately trust this one.

Agreed. Although what did Sakurai state exactly?

Was it that development at hasn't started at all or that he's not helping with development just yet.

@Broserker: IT WAS DEADPOOL.

How could someone (let alone someone with major MvC3 fandom) not know who that was?

 

[Berserker.]

@Broserker: IT WAS DEADPOOL.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CmSv-HvDjAY

TAUNT BUTTON

On topic: I'm lucky I can still play the Last Story and Xenoblade

 

[Starphoenix]

I have this thing about waiting for a game to be released before I begin making stage concepts. Over all the stage sounds ok.

As far as The Last Story music is concerned Battle Banquet would be the most appropriate choice.

 

[---]

On topic: I'm lucky I can still play the Last Story and Xenoblade

You can play it?

So I guess the Mushroom Kingdom is located somewhere in Europe? Although that does explain why there is a Princess and why Mario and Luigi are Italian.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I think your backing up because you can't argue the point. Rather than argue competitive play, you can back out of it by trying to say there is no set way to play.

Because there isn't. There never was. If there was, why would they make so many options?

This is true to an extent, but it is pretty clear this was the intention from the start. Note that the game is advertised as a 4 player game, started out as on (look at the original idea from the Iwata Ask). Sakurai also mentioned it on the Dojo.

And he knows that not everybody can get up to 4 players at all times. Otherwise, we'd be forced to have 4 players in every match. The rest would be computer. Why can we have 1 on 1 if it's not available? Up to 4 players =/= Can only be played as 4 players. Also, checking the website, it says "Player 1-4". Not "4 Players". You're misquoting his intention. The game is meant for tons of possible scenarios. And all of them are fun options. I'm not speaking for the competitive side here, actually.

Yes, the game has a lot of options, but that doesn't mean he takes great care in doing balance across the board because it is almost impossible (also not including the single player modes). The reason I say that it is balanced for 4vs (or Standard) is that that is the default and the main purpose of the game. Everything else is just gravy. At the very least, they tried to make it with a good amount of factors so that if some things change (stages, number of players, items) the game would pretty much stay balanced, or close to some for of it. Turning everything off skews it. And it obviously does. How so? Sakurai has said that from online data, every character preforms about the same. So something isn't right in this picture and I'm saying that competitive players have managed to change the balance.

That's completely your opinion. Sakurai never said the balance was meant for four players and all items and all stages. This is not a fact, and you're making an assumption here. Likewise, we're talking about gameplay from ALL parts of multiplayer. If Online is all you have, then offline isn't balanced. Also, what Kuma said below my post.

The whole standard thing is not that important when we really get to it. I'm saying it's standard because that is how most people play it, how you'll probably play it online, how it's advertised and is the default settings. Thus, standard.

Care to back this up with statistics? And Sakurai did say that the online was iffy. He knows that it didn't work out very well this time. You cannot based it upon an online system that didn't work out well. Likewise, the players had little time to choose options. That part appears to be rushed. But we don't know either, so neither of us can prove it right. No need to bring up online again, then, as it's not factual.

Your language prove to me your going down this train of thought because you can't argue the one we were on. You can't say that competitive play isn't different and their way is normal or would work the same changing the scenario. So make everything be null and say there is no norm. Your comments aren't even staying in line with mine.

Yes, I actually can. Normal is subjective. You have your way, and we have our way. Once again, if the game was meant to be played only one way, we wouldn't HAVE those options. And if Sakurai really believed that, why would he play 1 on 1 VS somebody? Or maybe he did. We don't know. You're acting like you know exactly how he thinks, but you don't. You haven't proven whatsoever what the set standard is. It's up to the customer overall.

Your view is not objective, only subjective. I respect your opinion, but why can you not respect ours in how we prefer to play the game?

@Try-Hyphen: He said there was no development on either Smash Bros. game.

 

[Big-Cat]

How so? Sakurai has said that from online data, every character preforms about the same.

I facepalmed when I read that months ago. As I've explained to you before, putting faith into online statistics is very much logically flawed. Let's go over some factors, shall we?

1. Online connection quality is never consistent. It will always vary between players and will never be lagless.
2. Not everyone plays online. Therefore, not all the tools that are available are fully exploited.
3. There are many players of many skill types that play online. A more accurate statistic would come from a group of players that all played at a high level.

 

[Oasis_S]

Whoever said that they could see Goroh and Wario pairing up, I totally agree. I mean, they're almost even wearing the same outfit...

And I want to see Takamaru confused by this loud katana flailing madman calling himself a samurai.

 

[---]

Whoever said that they could see Goroh and Wario pairing up, I totally agree. I mean, they're almost even wearing the same outfit...

Funny pic, but I disagree...

One's a mercenary, one's a bandit. Sounds like a good buddy cop story if you ask me.

 

[Oasis_S]

A friend of Ike is a friend of mine.

I just remembered someone once argued that Ridley was comparable to some Fire Emblem dragon, and to think Ridley would be playable is to think that dragon would be playable. It was really weird. Maybe it was a troll trying to trip us up since we were all pretty dumb.

By the way I came to this memory while trying to think of what kind of kart Marth would ride in a supposed Smash kart racer.

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

Can't believe you guys were actually talking about Goroh and I didn't hate it. Shakes for dinner.

Only the manliest of men can use pink goroh. So hey, F-zero fans. Mind filling me in on what Goroh and black shadow do? Just curious. All I know is gorohs a stumpy man with a sword, and black shadows the villian of the series. Also he got punched really hard in that one vid. :3

Even though he's fat and stupid looking, Goroh's really agile and accurate with his sword. That goes for both the games and the anime, he'll do backflips and cut the clothes off of people and whatnot. Anime Goroh also does that typical anime "cut through stuff you shouldn't be able to cut" move, like missiles or tanks or whatever with one stroke. In the games, he's a bumbling jerk. In the show, he's more serious and dignified.

Black Shadow is basically Ganondorf without weapons. Super magic powers (though it's less blowing stuff up and more mind control and whatnot), super physical strength, mostly invincible, etc. I really doubt Zelda nerds know that about him, but it's pretty convenient. Game version's a little goofier since, you know, he attends races legally and goes on TV. Anime version tends to scare the crap out of the other characters.



Always forget the source of the balance arguments, but I'm betting it was something fairly mundane.

 

[Drclaw411]

here's an idea: Super Team (from Super Mario Strikers) for Assist Trophy! "Super Team" was a team of robots in the first Strikers game. The Super Team was the final unlockable playable character.

 

[ChronoBound]

Okay, I just found something that proves Toise correct with one of his claims for inclusion (that the character must be appealing). On Sakurai's update for Roy on the Japanese Melee site, Sakurai mentions that he does not worry about Smash fans not having played Roy's game yet (the update was in January whereas FE6 was released in late March) because "Roy's charm helps him stand out on the roster, and many of you will fall in love with him immediately."

So appeal is definitely one of Sakurai's parameters for inclusion it seems.