New Smash Bros for WiiU

[---]

I actually suggested the idea of cards all the way back in 2004.

And here I thought I had the idea of the day.

Still I would like to get Toise's thoughts on this possibility and also hear Omega's opinion (too bad he's banned).


@SSBF: Those rules seem to be o.k., although if you are encouraging debating a bit, maybe it'd be better if you also posted why a cetain character is likely at the beginning of each day so this doesn't turn into another Rate Their Chances.

Ex. Reasons for "x" getting in.
Reasons against "x" getting in.

 

[Shorts]

how do we exactly debate a popularity contest?

Exactly. Not only does it go against the concept, but you Ridley lovers aren't changing my mind. You aren't. No matter how much you "debate" who's the better choice, I'm going to pick who I want....that's what popular vote is about. Another problem is, I called the final match. It's going to be between Megaman/Roy and Ridley/Mewtwo.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

You mean how long the voting days are? Twenty-four hours (so the first round will take sixteen days as we will have sixteen matches).

Ah. Sounds good.

Also, I think it was back around after Melee was released that I thought up an SSB TCG.

 

[Aurane]

Not gunna be here for long, so hoping for quick answers:

@SSBF How was my Moveset?

@Shortie How was my roster?

@All I hate Wi-Fi Wii, and it hates me.

 

[SmashChu]

Lolwat.

How did you draw this conclusion? I'd love to hear it---especially if you're speaking from a casual standpoint. About the only thing you could argue about balance is that one game (Brawl) is a little bit easier to piay while the other (Melee) is a bit tougher due to mechanics/physics. Beyond that, it's pretty evenly balanced at that level between both games.

Smooth Criminal

How is it not obvious? In fact, it is one of the major complaints lobbied against competitive Smash since the Melee days.

Competitive Smash is played in a way it was never designed to be. Things like the number of players, the stages and the items. In Brawl, the final smashes also play a role. When everything to changed around and outside game rules put into place (like not using sudden death). Instead, all of the items and final smashes are taken out, the stage pool is shrunk and you only play with 2 players. No matter what, some characters are going to do better than others because their abilities are what works best in that set up. Speed is one of the biggest factors which is why we always find most of the fast characters in the top tiers. The few that aren't still have fast start-up (like Snake, who still has long delays in his moves).

No matter what, competitive Brawl is always gonna be broken because the designers are not making that game and never will. In the same vein, everyone else is playing an all brawl approach where competitive Smash is still using a lot less.

Let me finish by pointing out what I mean with Meta-Knight. Meta-Knight is a very fast characters with a lot of useful special moves. But where he really falters is removed from competitive play. He lacks a lot of KO power without using the few moves he does have (which are still kind of weak) and gimping. In 4vs, it's much harder to land KO so those indirect KO moves are not as strong and it's hard to bait characters into them. Gimping is also hard as there are still 2 other players who will either have better access to items or try to get you (though spikes and item throws). Meta-Knight also has a very weak final smash. Compare it to the other characters who target someone with them. Captain Falcon, Ike, Marth, Link and Toon Link all have much stronger attacks that do more damage. Meta-Knight's only advantage here is his range, but even Ike is about the same and has a better attack.

There are a lot of things, but the big thing is that you all are not playing the same game.

 

[Shorts]

You and Luco will have to wait until my week ends again. I only do them thursday nights, through Monday days. Monday nights/wednesday is homework time, and I have school tuesday/thursdays.

 

[Aurane]

You and Luco will have to wait until my week ends again. I only do them thursday nights, through Monday days. Monday nights/wednesday is homework time, and I have school tuesday/thursdays.

Busy as usual, I see! But, yeah, I can w8, but wanted to make sure I didn't miss nething. I didn't miss nething, did I?

ObjecTING AS usual, I see...
^
| The New Catchphrase of
this thread.

 

[Sunnysunny]

I mean, I certainly don't see this happening:

Pikachu
Jigglypuff
Pokemon Trainer
Lucario
Mewtwo
3rd Gen


Eight Pokes?.... I do not like.

I know right? Not nearly enough pokemon.

 

[Deleted member]

Realizing how much I've been neglecting real life for Smash speculation has me really stressed out recently. With this, I'm definitely am going to have to take a break from it until I get it back in order. Sorry.

 

[Drclaw411]

You and Luco will have to wait until my week ends again. I only do them thursday nights, through Monday days. Monday nights/wednesday is homework time, and I have school tuesday/thursdays.

would you mind doing mine too, when you can?

 

[Shorts]

Suresure, just PM me the list~

 

[Oasis_S]

If I'm not too late to CHIME IN, I still think Medusa would be the better choice of the goddesses if we could only have one. But I guess if we get both then that doesn't really matter.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Why would anyone want Palutena? she's basically the peach of the series...

Damsel in distress

 

[Thino]

Why would anyone want Palutena? she's basically the peach of the series...

Damsel in distress

which is exactly the good reason why she could get in

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

which is exactly the good reason why she could get in

How is that a good reason? She's a background character

 

[Thino]

How is that a good reason? She's a background character

Just like Peach and Zelda in most of their games

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Just like Peach and Zelda in most of their games

Peach has been playable numerous times, and Zelda HAS been playable before. Palutena has only been in 1 scene in the released games so far

I would say Bowser is more important as a character than peach anyway

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Just like Peach and Zelda in most of their games

Yes, but they're fought in various media. Cartoons, comics. Peach actually does something in Super Mario Bros. 2. Zelda fights in some of the Cartoons, and she also has 2 Unofficial games(CDi) that she's playable in. They both have the history of doing something as is.

Has Palutena ever fought? Comics? Video Games? Cartoon? I mean, besides Fanfiction? Medusa you fight against, so she actually has more fighting experience.

And Captain Falcon fought a bit in the comics, so he has something to to bring to the table.

Ninja'd by PI.

 

[Thino]

Peach has been playable numerous times, and Zelda HAS been playable before. Palutena has only been in 1 scene in the released games so far

I would say Bowser is more important as a character than peach anyway

Yes, but they're fought in various media. Cartoons, comics. Peach actually does something in Super Mario Bros. 2. Zelda fights in some of the Cartoons, and she also has 2 Unofficial games(CDi) that she's playable in. They both have the history of doing something as is.

Has Palutena ever fought? Comics? Video Games? Cartoon? I mean, besides Fanfiction? Medusa you fight against, so she actually has more fighting experience.

And Captain Falcon fought a bit in the comics, so he has something to to bring to the table.

Ninja'd by PI.

Still , Just like Peach and Zelda in most of their games, they fit the stereotype of the damsel in distress.

I don't know what part of "most" you guys don't understand but feel free to think that its the fact they FIGHT in some games like SMB2 or CDi that raised her chances to get in, I have some counter examples for that if you guys want to hear them

and I'm actually surprised to see people using the "other media" as argument when I tought most of you agreed on that supposedly "characters have to come from videogames" rule

Does this mean character have to come from videogames but their moves can be from the other media they're represented in?

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Still , Just like Peach and Zelda in most of their games, they fit the stereotype of the damsel in distress.

I don't know what part of "most" you guys don't understand but feel free to think that its the fact they FIGHT in some games like SMB2 or CDi that raised her chances to get in, I have some counter examples for that if you guys want to hear them

and I'm actually surprised to see people using the "other media" as argument when I tought most of you agreed on that supposedly "characters have to come from videogames" rule

Does this mean character have to come from videogames but their moves can be from the other media they're represented in?

Of course

Pokemon uses the anime and card games

 

[y.toonlink]

I dunno much about Kid Icarus, and although I do think an antagonist is more likely I just like that Palutena might be using her staff, something different from all the swords that just keep coming

Wait, other media besides games? Peach I'm sure is based off the RPG. Zelda and Captain were given original movesets because they're representative to their franchise Sakurai wanted them While other media might have been partially influential, I don't think they really have any relevance to SSB, esp the CD-i games.

 

[Shorts]

You Queens argue like Lady Gaga and Britney Spears fans, and I'm gonna give you the exact same answer I give them.

THEY'RE BOTH GREAT. Seriously, they're both good choices. Adding both would complete the series, which is always a good thing. Although if you ask me, I think the DK StarFox, and Metroid should be completed first. Metroid and SF have a sinlge character left (Ridley and Krystal) and then Donkey Kong just DESERVES Dixie and K. Rool. Palutena and Medusa are both good choices, but if I PERSONALLY had to pick one, it would be Medusa.

Who knows? We could see them BOTH, or neither of them. That series is so up in the air, it isn't even funny.

A also have no idea why people think Medusa is more likely? Did Luigi, Jigglypuff, and Falco not teach you anything?

MORE IMPORTANTLY, has the Kirby franchise not taught you anything?


Also, WE KNOW Palutena has fighting exerience, I mean... didn't she lead armies?... not that i matters much anyhow.

 

[y.toonlink]

Isn't Star Fox already complete without Krystal? I'd like her in, but her addition is like Toon Link and other Pokemon not Pika: more gameplay/franchise rep

 

[Shorts]

Isn't Star Fox already complete without Krystal? I'd like her in, but her addition is like Toon Link and other Pokemon not Pika: more gameplay/franchise rep

To put it simply, no. That's what Arcade and Chrono would like you to think, but it isn't.

Once a series has it's core characters, it is finished. Krystal is a core character, despite what people say. It's not a matter of IF anymore, it's just a matter of when I suppose.

 

[Oasis_S]

Watch Orcos, the antagonist from the second Kid Icarus game, gain a following. They'll be duking it out with the Magnus supporters until Magnus is confirmed as an Assist Trophy, so then the half of the Magnus supporters who are just interested in having more Kid Icarus representation go on to support Orcos. And then in the end it all means nothing when it is confirmed that Orcos isn't even a normal trophy. OR STICKER since he doesn't have any official art.

Also, Shortie, your Nintendo Strong thing makes me want Palutena so I can beat her up with Ridley. :3

 

[300%]

I can't be the only one anticipating Phoenix Wright's Smash debut after his reveal in Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3.

 

[y.toonlink]

How important was she in Command and Assault? The series already has:
Fox - Main
Falco - Partner
Wolf - Antagonist
Krystal - if Love Interest, that's pretty much the same thing as a partner to me.

This is only about the series being complete, tho. She is easily the "extra" rep.

 

[Shorts]

How important was she in Command and Assault? The series already has:
Fox - Main
Falco - Partner
Wolf - Antagonist
Krystal - if Love Interest, that's pretty much the same thing as a partner to me.

This is only about the series being complete, tho. She is easily the "extra" rep.

The Hierarchy goes like this:
Fox: Hero
Andross: Villain
Krystal: Teamate/Love interest
Wolf: Antivillian
Falco: Teamate "Second in command"

Basically in Adventures, Krystal obviously is more important than Falco, and then in Assualt she does the same job as Falco, as well as having her whole love interest thing going on. LASTLY in Command, she pretty much dominates the storyline. Basically, she does what Falco does, and more. Wolf is only in because Andross can't be. He is pretty much this guy who shows up and annoys everyone sometimes, but not a major villian. Like Wario sorta.

Fox is the Mario
Krystal is a Peach/Luigi mix
Wolf is for all intensive purposes the bowser (Even though he isn't. He only is because Andross cannot be playable, otherwise he's a Wario)
and Falco is a Luigi

People don't realize that Falco doesn't DO MUCH. He just, doesn't.... When you're talking "completeing a series" you need all the characters that push the plotline further/show up a lot/ect. These five are them. Except Andross can't be playable. Falco, storyline wise, doesn't do crap. He's easily the least important in that aspect.

@Oasis, I wonder if that is going to end up just being you and me debating?... 0.0 Now with SSBF gone for a little bit..

 

[Oasis_S]

If Fox is the Mario, Falco the Luigi, and Wolf the Wario... does that make Krystal the Waluigi of Star Fox?

AAAND it will probably be us until we get to a point where we just don't know enough about either character.

 

[Shorts]

If Fox is the Mario, Falco the Luigi, and Wolf the Wario... does that make Krystal the Waluigi of Star Fox?

AAAND it will probably be us until we get to a point where we just don't know enough about either character.

Ugh. I don't want to get to that point...I think between the two of us we have every series covered.....minus....Earthbound? What about fire emblem? I know the rest of the series pretty well, other than them.

No she wears blue so she's the Toad of the series

 

[y.toonlink]

So yes, she is the love interest. Love interests, best friends, first mate etc are pretty much similar to me in regards to representation (series completion). Krystal, like Peach, has as much "right" to be in Smash as Falco and Luigi are. I personally believe that love interests don't necessarily complete a series, but as you said she had a huge role in Command.
Just pointing it out, Wolf is the antihero no?

 

[Shorts]

So yes, she is the love interest. Love interests, best friends, first mate etc are pretty much similar to me in regards to representation (series completion). Krystal, like Peach, has as much "right" to be in Smash as Falco and Luigi are. I personally believe that love interests don't necessarily complete a series, but as you said she had a huge role in Command.
Just pointing it out, Wolf is the antihero no?

And Adventure, my point is, if a smallfry (storyline wise) like Falco is in, there is no reason a character with actual importance to the story shouldn't get in. Essentially yes, I view Wolf as the AntiHero. Also, to say the love interest don't complete a series is like taking Romeo or Juliet out of...well, Romeo and Juliet.

AS FAR AS SMASH GOES HOWEVER, she is undoubtedly the fourth character in the race. I mean, there is no arguing that. Falco and Wolf have Smash fans already, she does not. HOPEFULLY, she takes the forth spot, so everyone can be done with the futile debate on whether or not she is deserving.

Essentially, I think the best inclusion sequence for SF would have been:

64: Fox
Melee: Wolf
Brawl: Krystal
SSB4: Falco
DONE.

BUT OF COURSE THIS LIST IS IN HINDSIGHT

 

[OmegaXXII]

Ohhh!! So I hear both Palutena and Medusa's chances are now solified?

 

[y.toonlink]

Love interest as a separate category from partner because they have the same importance meaning Krystal is as important as Falco, much like Peach and Luigi.
Romeo and Juliet isn't a series, it's one play
I was just pointing out that you put Wolf as an anti-villain.

Interesting how Falco is so late it's like adding Lucario before Jiggs haha I see what you're getting at tho

@Omega
Where did you see that?

 

[Shorts]

Well, I just can't agree with that, because Falco plays the "Partner Role" which in SF is...coming up on the bottom of the screen to say "Yo Help me!!" and the love interest role has plotline to it. Like I said, storywise, he's got nothing. I just don't know if you're picking up exactly what I'm laying down. Falco is just less important....period. Comparing his role to Luigi's is a bad decision on my part as well. His role is like a crappy Luigi..I guess. I'm tired.

Also, that Wolf thing was a typo, seeing as it's late and I catch virtually none of them at this time of night.

I just in general think too much stock is and has been given to Falco in terms of what matters in the StarFox world, not the Smash world. Which is probably where I lost you.


Anyways, in short Krystal 4 Smash. I'm going to sleep now.

 

[Aurane]

Now, I've been thinking lately...
Sm4sh doesn't come out for another 3 o 4 years, or maybe more. Looking at the PKMN franchise, it's highly doubtful, but they might have a 6th gen b4 SSB comes out. That's one thing, but in the character side of things, I believe Keldeo may have an awesome chance too, along with Genesect for future releases. Ultimatly, the Pokedex was followed with PKMN legendaries' movies. Example: Darkrai, Dialga, Palkia, and Shaymin and Giratina, and Arceus. Now, we have at present moment...

Victini, Yin Yang. But what about the others..?

There is still Keldeo, who'll have a movie with the three musketeers Terrakion, Cobalion, and Verizion. That's obivous. Then we have Meloetta and Genesect, who could possibly be in the same movie. Note also Kyurem, who might tie with the original two. Note also Tornados, Thundrus, and Landorus. So many Pokemon legendaries, so how could they fit all of them in 3 movies? Or will all of them not be?
The bold means that it's not truely known, but is guessable.

I worry of Victini's appearence, but with hope, the only movie besides Victini's that'll probably come out is Keldeo. Genesect, after looking into this, is looking grim.

 

[OmegaXXII]

Nice thing asage, hey you mind uploading this and give me a link? Please!!

 

[Aurane]

@king ??? What?

 

[y.toonlink]

@Shortie if you see this next time you're on
Yea, within Star Fox Krystal is more important but I mean the love interest and friend roles in general. That's all I've been saying, just wording it weird 'cause it's late here too. Falco's been seen as Fox's buddy being pretty "important" until Krystal took the spotlight. You didn't lose me anywhere, all I've said was my opinion between their roles in general, not Star Fox.
And again, I know I was just pointing out the typo. What's the time difference from where you are and on SWF?

But yup, Krystal fo SSB4. Who cares about furries, in the end they're support. Weird perverted support but support

 

[OmegaXXII]

Please? I can't do it on my device, anyway, I like Palutena and support her, a plot with her as well?