New Smash Bros for WiiU

[OmegaXXII]

I think L-Cancelling is nice, the option for being there or to turn it on/off wouldn't necessarly be a bad thing since it really wouldn't change the core dynamics of the game, just a technique that requires maneuvaring.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I think L-Cancelling is nice, the option for being there or to turn it on/off wouldn't necessarly be a bad thing since it really wouldn't change the core dynamics of the game, just a technique that requires maneuvaring.

I find it fun. I admit being optionable is fine, but there wasnever anything wrong with it. Having a few things that require timing and skill isn't bad whatsoever. Look at the original Dancing Blade.

 

[Shorts]

Since Crankey is the original Donkey Kong (supposedly) AND is the current one's grandfather. DKJR is likely the current DK's father.

It's weird to see DK older than his daddu in Mario Tennis.

Star, what do you think about his symbol? Would he be his own franchise, or a DK character? I MEAN, aren't his games based around him?... Sort of like Diddy Kong racing?

I don't want him to represent the DK series so much as the ARCADE generation of Nintendo. (Unless G&W does that?)

Those do not look like potatoes, Shorts.

lol. I made that joke already. He didn't like it. I did. We're good friends, I know.

 

[OmegaXXII]

I find it fun. I admit being optionable is fine, but there wasnever anything wrong with it. Having a few things that require timing and skill isn't bad whatsoever. Look at the original Dancing Blade.

Yeah, I guess it should be in game already, I really don't find it a problem whatsover, it's actually pretty useful, and no, I'm not trying to turn Smash 4 into Melee lol..

Dancing Blade?

 

[Metal Overlord]

DK Jr. would probably be a retro character if he got in. He has more ties with Nintendo history in general than he does now with DK.

Either way would make people go "WTF?"

 

[Starphoenix]

Star, what do you think about his symbol? Would he be his own franchise, or a DK character? I MEAN, aren't his games based around him?... Sort of like Diddy Kong racing?

I don't want him to represent the DK series so much as the ARCADE generation of Nintendo. (Unless G&W does that?)

He would probably retain the Donkey Kong symbol despite his past. After all, he is the only Donkey Kong side character that was not a by product of RARE. Granted, he would be an extraordinarily retro Donkey Kong character, but a Donkey Kong character none the less.

 

[Shorts]

He would probably retain the Donkey Kong symbol despite his past. After all, he is the only Donkey Kong side character that was not a by product of RARE.

Looks like I'm going to have to fight Sakurai.

 

[Big-Cat]

I thought of something interesting for Dixie Kong. How about a mix of Peach's float and the glide? You could use this when doing pressure on someone, and to freak them out, do a short hop into her twirling her hair to delay the landing and attacking.

 

[Conviction]

Okay, time for a serious post from Iblis.

Damn, it's been a while since I've done this.

Fix to L-Canceling/Auto Canceling:

Have a strict timing (7-4 frames) of a duration of the executed aerial that allows landing to cancel or significantly drop landing lag frames. Depending on how long the aerial last those opening of timings can come in intervals.

@Omega: Dancing Blade is Marth's and Roy's Side B.

@Sonic Discussion (that seems strange I haven't really put any info in on):

New Sonic Specials:

Neutral B: Homing Attack
Side B: Light Dash
Grounded Down B: Spin Dash
Aerial Down B: Bounce Attack
Up B: Spring Bounce

Back to technicals: There is nothing wrong with a skill barrier. I actually think that it makes a game more enjoyable, a challenge. Useless techs are stupid though. L Canceling sadly was one that wasn't really needed and didn't make sense. They made that slight fix in Brawl.

 

[Kantrip]

Alright, Dixie's ponytail spin needs to be neutral B.

 

[Metal Overlord]

Light Dash? Don't you need rings for that?

I'm probably just overthinking this, anyway

 

[Starphoenix]

I always imagined Dixie Kong having a modified version of a glide. It would keep her true to character while giving her a unique dynamic.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Yeah, I guess it should be in game already, I really don't find it a problem whatsover, it's actually pretty useful, and no, I'm not trying to turn Smash 4 into Melee lol..

Dancing Blade?

L-Cancelling originated from the first game, actually. It what allowed us to speed up our game, but it didn't make it less enjoyable by any means. If you wanted to get better, you need some challenges to overcome. One of the most important parts in Smash is your timing. It allowed us to practice that. I've never seen this(unlike Tripping) have a negative impact on Smash. I like the Skill Barrier. I think it's good for the game. One of the problems with Brawl is that is was lessened for no reason besides to make it less competitive. We know that already.

I disagree with the idea that a fighting game shouldn't be competitive at all. That's one of their most compelling features. I do not have a problem with both competition and casual play either. It's fine to have a gap between them, really.

 

[Conviction]

Light Dash? Don't you need rings for that?

I'm probably just overthinking this, anyway

You do. Think of Sonic Battle. Sonic can throw out a ring and then dash out for it.

 

[OmegaXXII]

I would like Donkey Kong Jr.

 

[Shorts]

I thought of something interesting for Dixie Kong. How about a mix of Peach's float and the glide? You could use this when doing pressure on someone, and to freak them out, do a short hop into her twirling her hair to delay the landing and attacking.

I had an interesting idea for Charizard. What if one of his taunts was Sword Dance?

Flame thrower becomes Fire blast (A single shot of a fireball, temorarily stains the ground with fire. Two fires allowed on the feild at the same time)
Rock Smash becomes "Boulder Smash" (Bigger Rock, longer to break. Lots of Knockback)
Fire Up thing, becomes fly (No spinning, just a straight dive upwards that leads into glide)

-----------If he wasn't a caught Pokemon------------

Fire Spin becomes "Ultra fire spin" (The usually small fire tornado is bigger and lasts longer. One on the feild at a time)

Sword dance powers up his B moves (Nothing else), but only lasts a limited amount of time. So you must push the button over and over again in order to play like this.

 

[Metal Overlord]

You do. Think of Sonic Battle. Sonic can throw out a ring and then dash out for it.

I could imagine there being a decent amount of start-up lag for that.

 

[OmegaXXII]

@Omega: Dancing Blade is Marth's and Roy's Side B

Thanks for the clarification, yeah.

 

[Conviction]

I could imagine there being a decent amount of start-up lag for it.

It doesn't need to be, anyways Sonic is quick, so I would expect Sakurai making the ring throw relatively quick (10 frames) and most specials aren't fast in execution, something that crossed my mind when you brought up start-up lag.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Thanks for the clarification, yeah.

Basically, it allows you to use different directions with the B Button after pressing Forward B, to create a set of combos. It's pretty much a "Technical Fighter"-based combo. It's about timing.

Sadly, this was made nearly automatic in Brawl. (like L-Cancelling was)

 

[y.toonlink]

I was dissapointed that Sonic Wind wasn't used. His Forward B and Down B are rather similar. Why not use Sonic Wave and Sonic Storm(from Sonic Battle) instead? It'd give him a nice projectile. Plus, spacing. That alone would bump him up a bit in the tier, but it wouldn't give him any more kill moves. Which is good. Also... anybody dissapointed in his Forward Smash being a wind-up punch instead of some type of kick?(once again, Sonic Battle, his Arc Kick. He does kick at the opponent, sending them a bit away, but then moves a bit farther back himself due to how it works. I can't remember the name, and it's hard to explain)

I have a ROM for Sonic Battle, but Sonic Wave would've been cool. Sonic looks like he wasn't taken too seriously in Brawl which is probably why he has basically the same 2 Specials. Since the Light Dash is more iconic than Sonic Wind or Wave, it looks like a good Forward B. A ring could work as a projectile and then he can chase after it. Maybe after a charge he can throw out a row and it can cause a multi attack and more distance from the dash?

Yup, although more activity would be nice, but you've earned it.

All my posts are from this thread alone. I don't have a Wii anymore and don't have any transportation for tournaments so I can't really say too much on those threads since they'd be the only ones I'd look at, productive-wise at least. Looks like I'm a pretty late addition, but thanks

 

[Kantrip]

I always imagined Dixie Kong having a modified version of a glide. It would keep her true to character while giving her a unique dynamic.

This is fine also. The ponytail spin will not feel right if you need any directional input. I don't think the glide would fly too well (pun intended) with how the input works, considering she'd only have one mid-air jump. Neutral B may be the easiest way to implement it, for that reason.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I have a ROM for Sonic Battle, but Sonic Wave would've been cool. Sonic looks like he wasn't taken too seriously in Brawl which is probably why he has basically the same 2 Specials. Since the Light Dash is more iconic than Sonic Wind or Wave, it looks like a good Forward B. A ring could work as a projectile and then he can chase after it. Maybe after a charge he can throw out a row and it can cause a multi attack and more distance from the dash?

True. But then his Forward B feels like a watered down Falco Phantom(etc.) When using a strong move, it shouldn't be too weak. I get that you can potentially aim it like Sonic Drive. But it shouldn't be that slow. It'd be too punishable and wouldn't be very good to use at all. I generally like the idea of neat moves, but they need to not too many glaring weaknesses to be added. If it's too weak or strong, then it wasn't made right. Sonic Drive is actually not a very good move to use in Sonic Battle, speaking from experience.

 

[OmegaXXII]

L-Cancelling originated from the first game, actually. It what allowed us to speed up our game, but it didn't make it less enjoyable by any means. If you wanted to get better, you need some challenges to overcome. One of the most important parts in Smash is your timing. It allowed us to practice that. I've never seen this(unlike Tripping) have a negative impact on Smash. I like the Skill Barrier. I think it's good for the game. One of the problems with Brawl is that is was lessened for no reason besides to make it less competitive. We know that already.

I disagree with the idea that a fighting game shouldn't be competitive at all. That's one of their most compelling features. I do not have a problem with both competition and casual play either. It's fine to have a gap between them, really.

Interesting, so it was in SSB64 as well? Hmm.. one of the reasons that I do fond it appealing is because it doesn't screw up the mechanics like tripping sid, sure it could definetly use some improvement, I'm not sure about auto though, was it in Brawl?? Also, Skill Barrier definetly seems like something useful to use, although I am kinda of lost on how it exactly works, but the fundamental seems like a good idea.

Yeah, Smash will always have competative aspects no matter how dubbed down it may be, Brawl was a good indication of this, I for one would like it to appeal more competative wise but having that casual stance on it is what also makes Smash...well....Smash which in turn balances the game out.

 

[Starphoenix]

This is fine also. The ponytail spin will not feel right if you need any directional input. I don't think the glide would fly too well (pun intended) with how the input works, considering she'd only have one mid-air jump. Neutral B may be the easiest way to implement it, for that reason.

Actually all I was thinking is the player had to hold the jump button to initiate her hair spin. Holding the button would allow her to continue spinning while you move the control stick.

 

[Big-Cat]

That's what I was thinking, except unlike Peach's float, you're more committed to it as you couldn't perform aerials with it.

 

[OmegaXXII]

Basically, it allows you to use different directions with the B Button after pressing Forward B, to create a set of combos. It's pretty much a "Technical Fighter"-based combo. It's about timing.

Sadly, this was made nearly automatic in Brawl. (like L-Cancelling was)

Yes, which I actually found appealing, even if it was timed base, something like this would really be useful if any combos were to be implemented in someway.

 

[Oasis_S]

Durn it, Shortie. You made me want some chocolate.

SO, with this Dixie Kong thing, is the current idea that she should have a sort of Peach flating ability, but it is activated as though it were a glide? I figure she wouldn't exactly float like peach, just her descent would be greatly slowed?

 

[Metal Overlord]

I just had an idea for Sonic:

Anyone remember the Flame Ring upgrade you got in Crazy Gadget? For those who don't know or remember, it powered up your Somersault into a Fire Somersault.

Could there be a way to incorporate that into Sonic's moveset? Like maybe a hidden side effect of his Dash Attack?

 

[OmegaXXII]

I like that Dixie idea, although K.Rool comes first for me so yeah...

 

[Aurane]

Sup, guys? Whats the news of today's tiny community ^^

 

[JavaCroc]

Well, I've read some of the posts while I was gone. What stuck out most to me was ChronoBound's remark that Sakurai doesn't think much of Wario Land.

CURSE YOU, SAKURAI!!!!!! PLAY WARIO LAND AND YOU WILL BE ASHAMED OF YOURSELF! Apologies will be gladly accepted.

He likes Castlevania and has something to say for Mona and Captain Syrup. Although I don't know what. He also thinks Roy is a good choice. UMMMMMM he likes F-Zero, for sure. I think he even likes Jody Summers. He thinks for Pokemon, or only real choices are 5th Gen OR Mewtwo.

THAT'S ALL I CAN REMEMBER. He also likes Hockey...(:

I'm interested.

Hmmm... A Tetris stage should take place in Red Square at twilight... Y'know, St. Basil's Cathedral in the background. Sunset... Stars twinkling... Blocks slowly falling in the background.

IT COULD BE VERY ATMOSPHERIC~

Spoiler

It would never happen though. U3U

Maybe if it appears in 8-bit form and is one of many background sequences the stage cycles through. See, I want a Tetris stage resembling the design of Tetris DS.

You'll get not only the awesome and wanted Tetris stage everyone wants, but you'll get a sort of catch-all retro stage as well.

 

[OmegaXXII]

Wow, a sonic moveset like that with rings would be boss!!

Whelp, good night y'all!!

 

[y.toonlink]

True. But then his Forward B feels like a watered down Falco Phantom(etc.) When using a strong move, it shouldn't be too weak. I get that you can potentially aim it like Sonic Drive. But it shouldn't be that slow. It'd be too punishable and wouldn't be very good to use at all. I generally like the idea of neat moves, but they need to not too many glaring weaknesses to be added. If it's too weak or strong, then it wasn't made right. Sonic Drive is actually not a very good move to use in Sonic Battle, speaking from experience.

If you notice, everyone's moves are pretty much similar because Smash is all about direction...
Forward B is supposed to propel forward, so Light Dash does that. I don't imagine too much start up lag, I see it as fast as Mario's Fireball (don't know frames too much).

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Interesting, so it was in SSB64 as well? Hmm.. one of the reasons that I do fond it appealing is because it doesn't screw up the mechanics like tripping sid, sure it could definetly use some improvement, I'm not sure about auto though, was it in Brawl?? Also, Skill Barrier definetly seems like something useful to use, although I am kinda of lost on how it exactly works, but the fundamental seems like a good idea.

Yeah, Smash will always have competative aspects no matter how dubbed down it may be, Brawl was a good indication of this, I for one would like it to appeal more competative wise but having that casual stance on it is what also makes Smash...well....Smash which in turn balances the game out.

L-Cancelling is automatic in Brawl. You don't press the L/R button to do it. You might not recognize it in 64 because it was called Z-Cancel, due to use the Z-Button(which is the shield button).

The idea of Skill Barrier is generally that some things are harder to do than others, and only those with the greatest training and skill can pull them off. It's not easy, and it rewards hard work by making you better. The gap's size doesn't have to be big, but it's not fun going to a very competitive tournament where a bottom tier character can easily win against a top tier character. That's why the gap needs to be high enough.

Right, that's why I love Smash a lot. It appeals to both fans very easily. I'd say SSB64 did a better job than Brawl. It had very technical things, no really horrible courses for competition(maybe Mushroom Kingdom and possibly Zebes, but it has atleast a few very easily neutral stages in Yoshi's Story, Congo Jungle(the barrels are too random to really be considered useful enough to be worth worrying about), and perhaps Dreamland.), but I haven't checked the stage list in a while. Overall, the game was a bit more casual than Melee, but still had its technical moments.

Melee has a lot of techniques. Just going over the list would take ages. Overall, it had a lot of stuff that make it easy to be competitive. It took skill to really be good at these Advanced Techs.

Brawl... not so much. I mean, it still had some, but it was made to be casual. Take a look at the courses alone. They were not made for anything other than "casual". Mario Bros.? Nobody would ever select something like that course in competition. This was a problem, because it added things like tripping and took away a lot of techniques we used to use, all because Sakurai didn't want competition. Now, outside of tripping, it didn't work. The game still has techs, people could still be good at it. It wasn't pure casual, thankfully, but it definitely was more casual than the first game. Atleast, how I see it.

Yes, which I actually found appealing, even if it was timed base, something like this would really be useful if any combos were to be implemented in someway.

As in L-Cancel still being there with timing being important, or it being gone for more combo ideas?

y.toonlink: Not exactly. The start-up lag is due to hoping you're able to get the Ring to go in the right direction, and it takes times frames. Long story short, you need to be able to actually attack fast enough, otherwise, you'll get punished. This is why Warlock Punch isn't very good. It has too many start-up frames, and no matter how strong it is, it won't ever hit outside of perhaps Tripping.

 

[OmegaXXII]

^^Man I will comment on this when I get back!!

 

[Shorts]

I like that Dixie idea, although K.Rool comes first for me so yeah...

I don't see King K. Rool actually happening. I can see Dixie, but I've got serious doubts about K. Rool.

Just a gut feeling. Same goes with Waluigi, and Ridley. Of course with Waluigi I have a gut feeling he may pop up somewhere.....playable...

 

[Starphoenix]

That's what I was thinking, except unlike Peach's float, you're more committed to it as you couldn't perform aerials with it.

Pretty much this. While it grants her an increase in recovery the drawback is in the safety she loses. It balances out.

I agree with Shortie. There is this feeling inside of me that King K. Rool is not going to be playable. Despite the "likeliness" he is granted. I have this feeling with several others currently; and had that feeling with several other characters pre-Brawl. I ended up being right on every single one.

Oh yeah, here is my Tetris stage. Since Java is plagiarizing my concept.

[COLLAPSE="Tetris"]Alright guys, here is my next stage concept. It is one that get's quite a few mentions, but I'm going to go ahead and give the stage a try. This could be a really fun stage if they don't over do it too much. It tis a gimmicky stage, but probably the best one they can have.

Tetris! Those iconic blocks that have been entertaining us for years joins the fray! So to speak... Now this stage isn't as unlikely as one might think, in Brawl we had two Tetris tracks, so would a Tetris stage be too much next time?

Now the stage itself would be rather tricky. For starters, there aren't any walls. just a solid platform with no blocks on it. "Oh, not so bad" you say. Until, they come! One by one blocks will land on the stage, filling holes and changing the land scape (note, it is a set pattern so eventually people can get the hang of how the blocks rain down). Slowly they will come down, looking for that hole gap to fill. Be careful to not land the blocks land on you, or else they will deal damage!

The stage is always changing, and the blocks are large enough to be mini platforms themselves. So it'd be possible to fight on a solitary L-block as it falls to the main stage. Which could set up for some interesting hill-type battles.

Now the background will be as interesting as the stage itself. Taking a cue from Tetris DS the background will cycle between different designs and themes of retro, 8-bit Nintendo series!

The stage's background will have animated, 8-bit caricatures in the distant background reflective of the background at that time.

Stage Example:

............Z
.......L.|
....________
++..............++

Stage Name: Tetris
Stage Icon: L-block

-Tracks-
Tetris - Type: A (Brawl)
Tetris - Type: B (Brawl)
Tetris DS - Mario
Tetris Party - 8-bit World
Tetris Party - Kalinka
Tetris Party - Katiusha
Tetris Party - Henry's Knight
Yoshi's Cookie - Versus Song
Kirby's Avalanche - Forest Stage
Panel De Pon - Flare ~ Flare (Critical Theme)
Panel De Pon - Lip's Theme (Brawl)
Dr. Mario - Chill (Brawl)
Dr. Mario - Dr. Mario (Melee)
Art Style: Rotohex - Credits [/COLLAPSE]

 

[y.toonlink]

@HyperFalcon
What about choosing the direction Pika goes for QA or Mewtwo with Teleport? It just takes a fast thumb, and I don't imagine it as long as Yoshi's Egg Throw. A startup lag for the charge which I brought up for more rings is more punishable, but what charge isn't?

As for this L-Canceling thing, I think it's a nice technical barrier. It definitely separates players' tech skill than Wavedashing. The only real annoying thing I find from it is when I'm not playing and I hear my friends' controllers clicking all the time. It's just one of those things where I find Auto-Canceling like using the C-Stick for everything.

 

[JavaCroc]

Oh yeah, here is my Tetris stage. Since Java is plagiarizing my concept.

[COLLAPSE="Tetris"]Alright guys, here is my next stage concept. It is one that get's quite a few mentions, but I'm going to go ahead and give the stage a try. This could be a really fun stage if they don't over do it too much. It tis a gimmicky stage, but probably the best one they can have.

Tetris! Those iconic blocks that have been entertaining us for years joins the fray! So to speak... Now this stage isn't as unlikely as one might think, in Brawl we had two Tetris tracks, so would a Tetris stage be too much next time?

Now the stage itself would be rather tricky. For starters, there aren't any walls. just a solid platform with no blocks on it. "Oh, not so bad" you say. Until, they come! One by one blocks will land on the stage, filling holes and changing the land scape (note, it is a set pattern so eventually people can get the hang of how the blocks rain down). Slowly they will come down, looking for that hole gap to fill. Be careful to not land the blocks land on you, or else they will deal damage!

The stage is always changing, and the blocks are large enough to be mini platforms themselves. So it'd be possible to fight on a solitary L-block as it falls to the main stage. Which could set up for some interesting hill-type battles.

Now the background will be as interesting as the stage itself. Taking a cue from Tetris DS the background will cycle between different designs and themes of retro, 8-bit Nintendo series!

The stage's background will have animated, 8-bit caricatures in the distant background reflective of the background at that time.

Stage Example:

............Z
.......L.|
....________
++..............++

Stage Name: Tetris
Stage Icon: L-block

-Tracks-
Tetris - Type: A (Brawl)
Tetris - Type: B (Brawl)
Tetris DS - Mario
Tetris Party - 8-bit World
Tetris Party - Kalinka
Tetris Party - Katiusha
Tetris Party - Henry's Knight
Yoshi's Cookie - Versus Song
Kirby's Avalanche - Forest Stage
Panel De Pon - Flare ~ Flare (Critical Theme)
Panel De Pon - Lip's Theme (Brawl)
Dr. Mario - Chill (Brawl)
Dr. Mario - Dr. Mario (Melee)
Art Style: Rotohex - Credits [/COLLAPSE]

Sorry, man. I was just bringing the idea up. I wasn't trying to copy your stage.

Anyways, since no one paid attention to this old concept of mine, thought I'd bring it up:

Here's an idea I had recently.

In SSB64 and Melee, once a player has completed a match, the gameplay absolutely stops where it was, and the results screen shows up, zooming in on the player. In both these games, though, the results generally obscured the view of the player.

In Brawl, the results screen in normal modes was kept to the left side of the screen, and the zoom-in on the player was shown on the right side of the screen. In addition, when a match was finishing, instead of stopping the game altogether, characters would move in slow-motion until the results screen.

For SSB4, my idea for the results screen is that the player remains in control of their character even during the results. The basic idea is we get a results screen like Brawl's, but the player can still control their character and move around the stage as they please. If they kill themselves after finishing the match, it will not count against them.

In addition, I would like SSB64 and Melee's bonuses at the results screen to reappear. I thought it was cool how the game monitored your actions and told you whether you spam one move too much or know how to taunt your enemy.