New Smash Bros for WiiU

[Ussi]

If wii U has no wired controllers i'm probably not getting smash4 or a wii u at all

 

[Thino]

If wii U has no wired controllers i'm probably not getting smash4 or a wii u at all

oh come on! netplay yo!

 

[Metal Overlord]

"Instead of King K. Rool, you can have some of the worst stages ever."

What a jerk.

Pretty much what I was thinking.

Could Mach Rider hype blow up for Smash 4 in subsequent years? It should.

 

[Deleted member]

I know many people are saying Little Mac or Takamaru for the most likely retro choice, but I have a strange feeling its going to be Mach Rider too. The redesign Sakurai had for him in Melee was definitely aesthetically appealing. My only concern is that there does not appear to be much for which to base a moveset for him off of, however, I am certain that if Sakurai wants him in, he will have something truly original for that character.

I think Lip is another possible choice for a retro that is often overlooked too.

I really do not think that Mach Rider will make the cut despite being Sakurai's favorite character in Melee. Didn't he give a reason to shoot down the character when being considered? With the Mach Rider 3DS rumor debunked, I don't see him going for a character he turned down. I still sincerely think that the non-WTF? character will be either Takamaru or Lip.

I'm not sure if I would call Lip overlooked since she did score somewhat decent in Rate Their Chances, although Takamaru is generally agreed upon as the the most likely.

There is also the surprise retro character that we may get again. Three examples of this are Duck Hunt Dog, Diskun, and Sheriff, although I am doubting this after the hate R.O.B. got.

Also, can we please stop calling Little Mac retro? He isn't. Heck, Takamaru and Lip may not even be retro if you look at it a different way.

 

[Pachinkosam]

Mach Rider

mach rider

 

[Thino]

time for a new taken out of context Sakurai tweet : http://twitter.com/#!/Sora_Sakurai/status/119687892430888960

>slime on the bottom of Dragon Quest 10 invite

pleaaaaase Square Enix show a LITTLE interest to the Smash franchise , thats all it would take , you're already taking of Sakurai's money !

 

[Pachinkosam]

If wii U has no wired controllers i'm probably not getting smash4 or a wii u at all

the wii u console is all wireless no wireds

 

[MechaWave]

For the next Smash, DO NOT bring back the "Cruel" mode.

No one ever played it anyways.

 

[Deleted member]

No one ever played it anyways.

I did and its definitely cruel.

 

[Berserker.]

I did.

It's not so cruel

 

[Thino]

there is a cruel mode?

never heard of it.

 

[Big-Cat]

The old game proves my point. Look at Fox. You say he is a rushdown character, but really they just took stuff from Starfox for his specials and made him fast (as he is a nimble frame and flys a high speed jet). Donkey Kong also threw things in the Country games, so throwing is a trait. It comes down more to the character than the move potential.

You seem like you get it, but your post history kind goes the opposite direction, or so it seems to someone on the outside like me.

I know you're probably exagerrating this, but they didn't just throw stuff in on these characters (even though it may seem like that at times). Anyway, you are right to a degree with it coming down to the character. You can't have anything out of character, but don't be afraid to think outside the box.

Take how many Toad movesets you can find online. There's a lot of stuff he can use from the games, but there are so many different ways you can turn those moves into a unified playstyle. I've seen camping Toads, rushdown Toads, and then there's berserker and mine's (bad grammar lol) mixup Toad moveset.

I'm starting to wonder if this has been a giant misunderstanding. It sounds like you're looking at the surface level than anything else. Like Dixie using Millia as inspiration because of her hair use is fine and all, but don't limit yourself to just that. Not only that, but unless someone can tell me of Dixie being able to form explosive rings, Millia as the only base would be a bad idea (as it's a good part of her playstyle).

 

[Berserker.]

(bad grammar lol)

*Inhale* *Exhale* *Inhale* *Exhale* *Inhale* *Exhale* *Inhale* *Exhale*

To add to that statement, don't just use the move to bring justice to Toad. Try expounding on it and morphing it in to something unique and new...

 

[Ussi]

the wii u console is all wireless no wireds

I'm trying to hope they see the error in that...


Or i can hope some hackers make a usb controller work for it. Until then i'm not buying one then :/ i'll just have to move on to a new fighting game

 

[Starphoenix]

I really do not think that Mach Rider will make the cut despite being Sakurai's favorite character in Melee. Didn't he give a reason to shoot down the character when being considered? With the Mach Rider 3DS rumor debunked, I don't see him going for a character he turned down. I still sincerely think that the non-WTF? character will be either Takamaru or Lip.

I'm not sure if I would call Lip overlooked since she did score somewhat decent in Rate Their Chances, although Takamaru is generally agreed upon as the the most likely.

There is also the surprise retro character that we may get again. Three examples of this are Duck Hunt Dog, Diskun, and Sheriff, although I am doubting this after the hate R.O.B. got.

Also, can we please stop calling Little Mac retro? He isn't. Heck, Takamaru and Lip may not even be retro if you look at it a different way.

It is a common misconception I see around the net, but Sakurai never turned down Mach Rider. The only thing he has mentioned about Mach Rider is that he is a character he is partial too because of the NES title. Another common misconception is that Sukapon was removed due to developmental issues. After reading what Sakurai really said it had more to do with the fact that his game was, and still is, very obscure and not going to see a future title or re-release. There really is nothing to point to specifically keep Mach Rider from being in if Sakurai chose too. Since he is a man who does love to throw out surprises.

Reading through the old Melee blogs it Sukapon was cut due to obscurity. Not technical limitations. Also, people take Sakurai's comment about limbless fighters out of context as well.

EDIT: It is official. Mario and gang have become the new "Morrigan". Hopefully some people get what I mean by that.

 

[Berserker.]

Is this some sort of edited cover of the game?

Wait never mind... it's real... It's just that Toad, Luigi and Yoshi's looks look quite similar with....

Yoshi - Umm.. Mario 64 DS?

Luigi - Other mario games

Toad - Mario Galaxy

 

[Starphoenix]

Exactly my point. Hence my Morrigan comparison.

 

[Thino]

EDIT: It is official. Mario and gang have become the new "Morrigan". Hopefully some people get what I mean by that.

I don't get it

NVM , Morrigan has been recycled on Capcom/DS/VSAV covers?

Is this some sort of edited cover of the game?

Wait never mind... it's real... It's just that Toad, Luigi and Yoshi's looks look quite similar with....

Yoshi - Umm.. Mario 64 DS?

Luigi - Other mario games

Toad - Mario Galaxy

nice eyes I didn't notice that until I payed attention , I guess they're getting lazy even on the covers

watch them recycle even for SSB4 now

 

[Starphoenix]

For those not into the inside joke. What I am describing is Morrigan from the Darkstalkers series. For about a little under a decade, when Capcom had Morrigan crossing over into the various Vs. title, Capcom reused the EXACT same sprite for her from her Darkstalker 2(?) appearance. Did not matter if every other character had higher detailed sprites, hers would remain the same.

 

[SmashChu]

I know you're probably exagerrating this, but they didn't just throw stuff in on these characters (even though it may seem like that at times). Anyway, you are right to a degree with it coming down to the character. You can't have anything out of character, but don't be afraid to think outside the box.

Take how many Toad movesets you can find online. There's a lot of stuff he can use from the games, but there are so many different ways you can turn those moves into a unified playstyle. I've seen camping Toads, rushdown Toads, and then there's berserker and mine's (bad grammar lol) mixup Toad moveset.

I'm starting to wonder if this has been a giant misunderstanding. It sounds like you're looking at the surface level than anything else. Like Dixie using Millia as inspiration because of her hair use is fine and all, but don't limit yourself to just that. Not only that, but unless someone can tell me of Dixie being able to form explosive rings, Millia as the only base would be a bad idea (as it's a good part of her playstyle).

One of the big difference between what I'm saying and what your saying is this line. "You can't have anything out of character, but don't be afraid to think outside the box. "Or, in other words, "I can do whatever I want so long as it doesn't violate the character. " I'm saying something like "You can only look at the character. The rest is fine." It's a negative way which yours is more positive. It's not wrong per say, But I disagree with it because it focuses less on the character. In some ways, working under limits makes it better.

Look at what you said about Toad for instance. That there are rushdown movesets and defensive movesets. But how much of that is Toad. People will make a whole ton of movesets, and many of them will be bad and unfaithful. Even still, you have to ask "Who is Toad," before getting to the nuts and bolts. In otherwords, he's less this kind of character but a character all on his own.

HextupleyooDOT still has the best description of how to make a moveset. Seen Here. Basically, he says that characters have moves from their games and other moves that are made up, but they still try to encompass the character. So the focus is very much on the character first, above all things. This is why, sometimes, characters can't always have the most unique moves.

The Millia thing was just that she had hair she attacked with, so Dixie can take from that. More the hair attacks I meant. I really didn't know what the character did beyond that to be honest. But it all goes back to fitting moves. I look at Dixie Kong and say "She has long hair. She attacks with it in the games. Let's have her use it now." Which will bring me to Millia as inspiration on some attacks.

It is a common misconception I see around the net, but Sakurai never turned down Mach Rider. The only thing he has mentioned about Mach Rider is that he is a character he is partial too because of the NES title. Another common misconception is that Sukapon was removed due to developmental issues. After reading what Sakurai really said it had more to do with the fact that his game was, and still is, very obscure and not going to see a future title or re-release. There really is nothing to point to specifically keep Mach Rider from being in if Sakurai chose too. Since he is a man who does love to throw out surprises.

Reading through the old Melee blogs it Sukapon was cut due to obscurity. Not technical limitations. Also, people take Sakurai's comment about limbless fighters out of context as well.

EDIT: It is official. Mario and gang have become the new "Morrigan". Hopefully some people get what I mean by that.

From what I heard, it was different. Mach Rider came up because someone asked him his favorite character for Smash. He said Mach Rider for 2. He mentioned Sakupon in that they tried to make him work, but to never expect him again.

If you have more information, I'd love to hear it.

EDIT:Wow, almost all the Mario artwork is taken from other games. Lazy.

 

[Starphoenix]

From what I heard, it was different. Mach Rider came up because someone asked him his favorite character for Smash. He said Mach Rider for 2. He mentioned Sakupon in that they tried to make him work, but to never expect him again.

If you have more information, I'd love to hear it.

Actually I have been rummaging through old quotes to try and find quotes from Melee and have stumbled upon Sukapon. I went to Sir Ilpallazo's old Starmen.net post and started looking through the links he posted and some of the translations that were done during that time. Even between the broken Japanese I was still able to extrapolate enough that pointed towards Sukapon's issue being more around his obscurity.

 

[Big-Cat]

@SmashChu
Berserker said it best as to what I was getting at. I didn't mean to do something slightly out of character. Rather, I meant to think outside of the box in regards how to implement it. The Toad Rush we came up with was born from the Golden Mushroom in the Mario Kart games. This was also mixed with how Toad is a small, but fast lifter (see SMB 2) so that's where the inspiration from El Fuerte came from.

If we didn't think out of the box, we probably would've had something similar to Sonic's Side B and that wouldn't really stick out.

 

[Berserker.]

Exactly my point. Hence my Morrigan comparison.

Ohhh....

nice eyes I didn't notice that until I payed attention , I guess they're getting lazy even on the covers

Seriously?

But I got low in my eye test (I'm required to get glasses lol)

Hmm.... Recycled things...

Reminds me of MvC 2

 

[OmegaXXII]

Yup, pretty much what I agree with that, it's cool.

 

[Berserker.]

You gotta be kidding me...

You have 18,000 posts already?

 

[OmegaXXII]

Dang, so the argument is about Toad's moveset not being emcompassed in any way? Huh?

Stupid last edit by. -_-

 

[Berserker.]

There's no argument regarding Toad's moveset.

It's mainly about movesets. Toad is just an example

 

[OmegaXXII]

Oh, okay, I meant the Toad Rush Kuma was talking about? Strange that Chu thinks it can't be that way since it isn't "true" to the character as he said, I don't believe it to be the case, Sakurai does think outside the box when it comes to it.

 

[Berserker.]

Oh, okay, I meant the Toad Rush Kuma was talking about? Strange that Chu thinks it can't be that way since it isn't "true" to the character as he said, I don't believe it to be the case, Sakurai does think outside the box when it comes to it.

It was actually the combination of...

Toad kart + Golden mushroom boost + Hanabero Dash

Just thinking deeper. That's all

 

[OmegaXXII]

And, what exactly would that do? Like, the kart thing at least, I think Sakurai would give Toad something a little more appropriate, but then again Wario has his bike, hmm...

 

[Diddy Kong]

Toad should have Peach's Down B move, just because he was part of HER moveset so long. Also, it's basically one of the only things he can Peach could really do in their 'main' game (besides Peach floating). Toad's B could be Peach's B now to (enduring a hit, and reflecting back spores) with Peach getting a new move. Side B could be the kart from Mario Kart, which would work similar to Wario's bike in Brawl. As for the other moves, I'd always imagine Toad to be a good character to have Jigglypuff's moveset if she where to get cut. Just a little bit more power in the tilts, and different jumps and it'd work perfectly.

 

[OmegaXXII]

Meh..I don't think Toad should have any of Peach moves himself, otherwise he would be called a semi clone to an extent, instead you have him have a different, totally unique style, here is a moveset to bet a better idea.

Spoiler

Toad's moveset:
By berserker 01. Animations made by AEM and sprites by medvock

Spoiler

Toad

"I'm the best!"​

Toad is one of the main protagonists in the Mario series. Just like Yoshi, he is a singular character from the other toads. He's appeared in various mario games such as the spin-offs, super mario bros 2, new super mario bros wii and mario galaxy. He also had his own game, Wario Woods, where in he was the main character.

Stats:

Toad is known for his quick speed and superhuman strength that surpasses even Mario and Luigi's! Unfortunately, his size and weight make him easy to KO however which also shortens his range. Good thing he has powerful and quick attacks! He's a combo character plus a quick character with the tools to camp which shows his superior item using skills plus he uses his power over the mushrooms by emitting spores and summoning mushrooms. He's also a demonic mix up monster. Those who want to use Toad will be challenged to learn one of the most deep characters in the game.

STR:

(As powerful as Kirby)
WEIGHT:

(As light as Olimar)
SPEED:

(As fast as Meta Knight)
ATK SPD:

(As fast Toon Link)
SHIELD:

(As small as Olimar)
SIZE:

(Slightly bigger than Kirby)
JUMP:

(As low as Link's)
RANGE:

(Almost as worst as Jigglypuff's range overall)
AIR MOBILITY:

(As fast as Lucas)
FALLING SPEED:

(As fast as Meta Knight)

Wall jump: Yes

Crawl: No

Pros and cons:

Pros:
+ Excellent projectiles (Bob-omb buddy)
+ Incredible mix up game
+ Quite strong and fast attacks for his size
+ Small size makes him hard to hit
+ Great grab game
+ Mushroom summon has multiple uses
+ Overall great normals
+ Fast speed

Cons:
- Small shield
- Easy to KO
- Requires a lot of skill and mastery
- Horrible crouch/duck
- Short/horrible range
- Unfortuantely, his grab range is short
- Recovery is to edgeguard
- Low jump

MOVESET

Specials

Neutral special : Mushroom summon

Toad gets surrounded by some sort of green aura. In this state, Toad has access to another sub-moveset.

Toad's mushrooms have a lot of uses. You can use it in all sorts of situations and it has a lot of uses. It will be explained in this part. Yes, you can interact with it even with out Toad's "green aura". It will still remain there for a few seconds. Here are the controls while you're surrounded by the aura

B: Change back - Toad's green aura disappears. He's back with his normal specials such as the Toad rush and the other special moves.

Forward B: Mushroom lunge - Toad summons a mushroom behind him which makes him boost towards the enemy. The mushroom disappears right away. It damages 8%

Down B: Mushroom bumper - Toad summons a mushroom bumper in front of him. At close range, it pushes the opponent way like a bumper, minus the hitstun (but there is some if you do it as a counter). It has some invincibility start up but it has enough recovery so that it's unsafe if baited, meaning someone could do a quick jump over and punish Toad. It damages 6%

Up B: Mushroom trampoline - Toad summons a mushroom that serves as a trampoline. It can stay on ground and in the air unlike the other mushroom techniques. It works like Sonic's spring jump except it does not appear below his feet. It is limited to five to ten seconds (300-600 frames), with two or three jumps per mushroom. It damages 9%

Forward Special : Toad rush

When in the running state, Toad has Golden Mushroom aftershadows behind him (as a reference to the MK games and the SF supers by coincidence). In this state, he has something never before seen in a Smash game: Followup attacks. By putting these inputs in, you have access to a sub-moveset for Toad.

Toad's bread and butter in his play style. This move has a huge role in Toad's playstyle. This is a great move to use in both offensive and defensive situations. Most importantly, it adds a lot more variety in Toad's mix up game. You'll find yourself using this move a lot since it has a lot of benefits to Toad.

B: Stop - Stop in place.

Side B: Nothing in the direction you're facing, but the other way around lets you turn around.

Down B: Slides in and then tosses them on the ground, ground bouncing them. All throws damage 10%. Once you grab them, there is a brief period where you must input the direction of the throw which can be 4 directions:

Spoiler

Up - This is where you sacrifice chain grab damage potential and mixups for damage.
Down - No DI and fixed knockback to ensure a tech chase exists at all damage levels.
Left and Right - The high knockback moves. You get little to no damage mixup potential, but these are good K.O. moves.

Up B: Super Jump - Does a high jump forward, backward, or neutral depending on the input.

Origin: Was used by Toad in SMB 2.

Downward B : Friendly Bob-Omb

Toad throws 1, 2 or 3 friendly bob ombs. The Bob-ombs follow it's closest enemy and when touches the enemy, it explodes. It can also be detonated by Toad if Toad commands them to. Press B to leave it on the ground. You can have only one out at a time. If you do B again, the last bomb disappears in a harmless explosion. Side, Down, and Up B allow you to toss them in those directions. You can use the Side up inputs to toss them like a catapult. Time for the bomb to explode is around 3-5 seconds. Each bob omb deals 8% damage

These guys are your allies and your main tool for camping. You can hold down the B button to summon more bob-ombs until 3. To control the direction, hold the analog to whatever direction you want to throw it. These guys pack a punch but they explode when they even touch the enemy's shield. Use them properly and avoid HITTING them.

Origin and defense: Was used by Toad in Super Mario Bros. 2. No seriously.

Upward B : Propeller Cap

Toad pulls out his propeller cap and flies into the air dealing 2% per hit (Total of 6%). He can drill downwards by holding the analog down dealing damage until the ground impact.

Toad's main recovery and a good one! He can use his ice flower while recovering but he can't use his bob-omb pals! The recovery goes as high as ROB's recovery. Unfortunately, he's pretty vulnerable to attacks. It has an extremely quick start up by the way.

Origin and defense: Was used by Toad in New Super Mario Bros Wii. Then again, Mario uses a fire flower and a CAPE. Why can't Toad use an ice flower and a propeller cap?

Attacks

Neutral combo : The usual punch - punch - kick combo

Toad does 2 punches then kicks! Simple but it packs a punch however, it lacks range. It damages 12% (3% - 4% - 5%).

All around great move. The punches can be cancelled and followed up to another attack while the kick does impressive but subpar knockback on the enemy. This is usually one of Toad's main combo starters so use it if your rushing down the opponent.

Dash attack : Mushroom charge

Toad slowly gets ready and bashes his head dealing high damage. It deals 13% damage

Very strong attack but one of Toad's slow attacks. It's best used to punish enemies. It poses high priority that can clank with Mach tornado so this counts as an approach.

Forward tilt : The Toad Kick!

Toad tries to stretch his kick! It may be short but it hits hard.... Damages 10%

Great attack for spacing and finishing combos on the ground. It's actually one of Toad's longer ranged moves but it's still short either way.

Upward tilt : The Toad upper

Toad bashes his head upwards and does an uppercut dealing 8 damage!

Quick, short ranged and weak but what makes up for all of this is that you can chain this attack depending on the weight of the character:

Super heavy - 6 times
Bowser
Donkey Kong
Snake
King Dedede
Charizard
Ganondorf


Heavy - 5 times
Samus
Yoshi
Wario
ROB
Ike
Captain Falcon
Link

Medium - 4 times
Wolf
Lucario
Ivysaur
Mario
Luigi
Sonic
Ness
Lucas

Light - 3 times
Pit
Diddy Kong
Ice Climbers
Toon Link
Peach
Marth
Shiek
Zelda

Super Light - 2 times
Falco
Olimar
Zero Suit Samus
Fox
Meta Knight
Pikachu
Kirby
Mr. Game and Watch
Squirtle
Jigglypuff

You can also combo this with another move instead of repeating it. This makes it more helpful for Toad to deal with close combat situations.


Downward Tilt : The "Clap"

Toad ducks and claps causing unusually strong knockback if the enemy is hit by Toad's hands but weak knockback if the enemy is hit by the small waves of the attack. It deals 11% damage sweetspotted and 6% if sourspotted

One of Toad's better combo finishers. It's not a great move for spacing since it's short ranged even compared to Toad's attacks. The knockback of this is somewhat huge showing the superhuman strength beneath Toad.

Smashes

Forward smash : Spores

Toad gets ready and spits his spores onto the enemy dealing extremely high damage, high range and high knockback however, it's really, really slow... It deals 22 - 30% damage

A move that should be used in caution. Luckily, this move poses high priority, range, power and damage but the sluggish start up is what makes this move really hard to use in combat. It's a good move to use to punish enemies or to outprioritize their rush attacks.

Origin: Was used by Toad in Super smash bros.

Upward smash : Rising mushrooms!

Toad summons his mushroom in front of him and sends the enemy upwards! Deals 11 - 19% damage...

Toad's surprise attack. It has normal knockback, damage and range so it's an average smash. You can use this to surprise your enemy especially if they're close to you since the mushroom comes out of no where. This makes the enemies fear going close to you since they don't know when Toad uses the U-smash.....

Origin: Was used by Toad in Mario Sports mix.

Downward smash : Double Mushroom

Toad summons 2 mushrooms around him and spins it around him dealing 10 - 18% damage

Toad's quickest smash attack and arguably the best way for him to space. The long range and normal knockback helps Toad really well in camping or in finishing combos. The priority isn't much but it's still pretty high but it doesn't deal that much damage. It's still one of Toad's greatest assets.

Origin: Was used by Toad in Mario Sports mix.

Aerials

Neutral aerial : Toad star!

Toad stretches his hands and legs around damaging 10% sweetspotted or 6% sourspotted.

Toad's main combo finisher in the air. This is one of the moves that can be followed up from his upward attack. The range is what makes this attack risky as an individual attack so this attack must be accompanied with a quick attack or a combo starter.

Forward aerial : Toad smash

Toad smashes his head on the enemy sending him/her downwards. Deals 14% damage

Another of Toad's combo finishers but it's ending lag is sluggish. It's one of the stronger meteor smashes in the game but be precise with it because if you miss with Toad's forward aerial, you will be harshly punished.

Backward aerial : Back kick

Toad kicks backwards dealing 8% damage

Great combo attack from start to end in ground or air. You can short hop it to start a combo or spam it in the air. It doesn't deal much knockback but that's what the combo advantage is for anyway.

Upward aerial : Flip kick

Toad flips his feet and deals 10% damage with low knockback

Another of Toad's combo attacks and a great tool for juggling. The low knockback can make you chain it repeatedly. It's also a great asset to Toad's neutral aerial (The Toad star) and to Toad's backward aerial (Back kick).

Downward aerial : Toad meteor

Toad sends himself downwards to the ground. It deals 12% damage

One of Toad's staple and best combo finishers in his moveset. He can short hop this after a jab cancel or use it during a chain of back kicks or flip kicks. The strong knockback is what really supports this move. The landing lag though is quite punishable so this is a bit risky against heavy characters.

Grabs

Toad can grab in mid-air and ground
​

Pummel : Headbutt

Toad slowly gets ready headbutts the enemy dealing 3% damage

Forward Grab : Heavy Headbutt

Toad delivers a strong headbutt that stuns the enemy. It deals 10% damage.

This is like She-Hulk's command grab where she grabs the opponent, punching them into stun to set up a combo or KO move. This would be a high risk : high reward move thanks to shield dodging, but getting the opponent to endure pressure, make him afraid to leave, or waiting for him to shield dodge and catching him on the recovery make it easier.

Backward throw : Drop kick

Toad throws the enemy backwards and kicks him away! Deals 10% damage.

Upward throw : Headbutt upward

Toad uses the back of his head and hits the enemy upwards. Deals 9% damage.

Downward throw : Carry

Toad carries the enemy around. He can throw the enemy which deals 8% damage.

Origin: Was used by Toad in Super Mario Bros. 2, Wario woods and NSMB Wii.

Other attacks

Get up attack (Below 100%) : Double blow

Toad gets up and emits spore around him. It deals 11%

Get up attack (100% up) : Head bash

Toad struggles to get up and waves his head upwards. It damages 8%

Edge attack (Below 100%) : Breakdance

Toad climbs up the edge and does a break dance. It does 12%

Edge attack (100% up) : Head strike

Toad climbs up the edge and forcefully charges his head to the enemy. It does 11% damage.

FINAL SMASH

STARSHROOM!​

Toad calls his starshroom and boards it! Now he's ready to crush enemies and shoot them down! Here are the controls of the starshroom:

Reticule:

A - Boost forward

B - Star shot

X/Y - Boost up (The starshroom boosts upwards)
C stick/R analog - Move target reticle
Control stick/L analog - Move ship

Playstyle

By Berserker (Me) and Kuma​

Toad has everything he needs in the battle field. He has quick attacks, a great mix up game, a terrifying grapple game plus the tools to camp. Toad's attacks support this playstyle in a very nice way that is bound to get a number of players hating you for your mixups (this means you're doing it right).

Be warned that Toad has short range. The range however is compensated by his bob-omb buddies. These allies of yours follow the nearest enemy and explodes. Be warned though that it cannot jump. Bob-omb buddies aren't solely for camping, it can also be used as a distraction. There's a difference between camping and distracting. Distracting is a type of "mind game". So while the enemies are being frightened by the bob omb buddies (That deals only 7% damage), you can rush them down. If you want to be on the safe side, just keep away from them.

Toad's mushroom summoning abilities can both help Toad in zoning and rushing situations. Mushroom bumper can be used as a barrier that will force opponents to jump over it. The good part is that it lasts long. The bad thing is that it can hit you so be careful. Toad's mushroom charge is a quick low damaging attack that automatically makes Toad lunge towards an enemy. When I meant towards, he attacks/lunges the nearest enemy in front of him. This attack is cancellable once you hit the enemy so follow it up to an attack. Toad's mushroom trampoline is Toad's "other recovery". It's not only a recovery but it is one of the biggest edge guarding mind games out there.

Toad Rush. This move will without a doubt be the most used move in Toad's arsenal as this starts his mixup game. When using this move, Toad has access to four followup attacks exclusive to the Toad Rush. The first attack is a simple stop which is useful for feints and comboing into normals. The second one is to have Toad run in the opposite direction. Aside from feinting, this keeps Toad in the Rush state and you can even dash dance with it with enough practice. The third move is Super Jump which is like Power Squat Jump, but not as high. This is best used for evasive purposes and to get in on zoning characters so you jump over their projectiles. The last move is probably the most important. The last attack is a sliding grab. Best used as a punishment move, this attack has Toad slide in and then toss the opponent in one of four directions of your choice. This is especially important as when the opponent lands from the attack, both of you must guess what happens next. Will he tech on the spot, to the left, to the right, or not at all. There is a brief moment when both of you must guess on each other. You guess right, you get to continue the chain grab. The only one of the four directions that doesn't do this is the Upward grab which has DI in place, but Toad's attacks like the FAir are deadly in this position if Toad reads correctly.

The propeller cap is Toad's main recovery. There's nothing much to say though. It's easy to edgeguard but at the starting frames as Toad rises up, the propeller damages the enemy and if you want to drill downwards, just hold the control stick downwards.

Toad's Headbutt is a grappling move, but at the same time, not. The purpose of this move is to get the opponent in a stunned state and unleash some deadly damage. With this move, you can your shield pressure, but you must be unpredictable with when you do this. This move's counter are the shield dodge and rolls so you must learn to wait for it come out before doing a headbutt. It's another risky move, but it's a highly rewarding move with the right combo.

Toad's normals come into play with his specials. Like said earlier, FAir is perfect for the followup on the sliding up grab as at high percents, this is Toad's big killing move. Another notable normal is his DAir. Combing this with the stop or Super Jump from Toad Rush, you have range for landing this attack. Toad also has a short hop so combine that his aerials and jump cancel from his normals for some nice pressure.

Alternate costumes​

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Taunts​

Upward Taunt - I'm the best!

Toad says "I'm the best"

Downward Taunt - Shout

Toad shouts "Yahooo!!!"

Side Taunt - Spin!

Toad spins with glee!

Extras​

Victory:

Lose:

Entrance:

Kirby hat:

Codec conversation:
Snake: Otacon, there's a talking mushroom here! Is it edible?
Otacon: It's not edible. That's Toad Snake. Toad serves as the Royal guard of Peach.
Snake: Well, he's not doing a good job at it. Bowser still kidnaps Peach all the time. This guy looks easy.
Otacon: Hold it right there. Toad isn't what you think he is. He has superhuman strength that enables him to carry anything no matter how heavy it is. He can also emit spores and summon mushrooms to come to his aid
Snake: Can't I just eat the mushrooms?
Otacon: I don't think that's the type of mushroom you'd eat. They're used for combat, not meals.
Snake: I see where those super mushrooms come from...
Otacon: Don't get the wrong idea Snake....

Want to see the animations?

http://ssf2expansions.motionforum.net/t915-toad-the-civillian-of-the-mushroom-kingdom-update-6-17-11

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Credits:
Berserker 01 - Moveset and pictures
Medvock - Toad sprites
AEM - Toad animations
Boo - Mushrooms
Tebited15 - Starshroom
Chaofanatic - Boost FX
The Toad Brigade - For voting and suggesting

Reviews:






Old move suggestions:
[collapse=things]
Neutral B: Ice Flower

Toad brings out the ice flower and shoots an ice ball. The ice ball travels slower but longer than a fireball. When in contact or when it doesn't make contact with the enemy for a few seconds, it will burst and damage 9-12%

A great projectile that can be used for camping and mindgames. The slow speed but long travel distance can be used to Toad's advantage. This can't be clanked. If the opponent tries to clash with it, it explodes on the enemy.

Origin and defense: Was used by Toad in NSMB Wii. Why can't Toad use it if Mario can use a fire flower. I doubt that's his signature. That goes for Luigi.

2nd option Neutral B: Bomb

Toad pulls out a bomb from Wario’s Woods. Press B to leave it on the ground. You can have only one out at a time. If you do B again, the last bomb disappears in a harmless explosion. Side, Down, and Up B allow you to toss them in those directions. You can use the Side up inputs to toss them like a catapult. Time for the bomb to explode is around 3-5 seconds. It deals 15% damage

One of Toad's most useful moves. It's main purpose is for camping. It has a huge effect on shield and it kills at a moderately low percent. Just like the ice flower, you can't clank with the projectile.

Origin: Was used in Wario's Woods

3rd option neutral special : Friendly Bob-Omb

Toad throws 1, 2 or 3 friendly bob ombs. The Bob-ombs follow it's closest enemy and when touches the enemy, it explodes. It can also be detonated by Toad if Toad commands them to. Press B to leave it on the ground. You can have only one out at a time. If you do B again, the last bomb disappears in a harmless explosion. Side, Down, and Up B allow you to toss them in those directions. You can use the Side up inputs to toss them like a catapult. Time for the bomb to explode is around 3-5 seconds. Each bob omb deals 8% damage

These guys are your allies and your main tool for camping. You can hold down the B button to summon more bob-ombs until 3. To control the direction, hold the analog to whatever direction you want to throw it. These guys pack a punch but they explode when they even touch the enemy's shield.

Origin and defense: Was used by Toad in Super Mario Bros. 2 except it was black so I mixed it with the bob-omb buddies from Super Mario 64 and Super Mario Galaxy 2. There's nothing wrong with this move

2nd option Downward Special : Pluck

Toad plucks out an item from the ground. It's either a vegetable, a mushroom block or a shy guy.

It works like Peach's down special except with different items. The vegetable damages 9% and has an 60% chance of being plucked, a mushroom block deals 30% damage and has a 10% chance of being plucked and a Shy Guy works like a Waddle Dee except it's heavier and harder to kill. It deals 20% damage. It's one of Toad's main tools for camping.

Origin and defense: Was used by Toad in Super Mario Bros. 2. It works like Peach's Down B so there's no problem here

3rd option Downward Special : Heavy Headbutt

Toad delivers a strong headbutt that stuns the enemy. It deals 10% damage.

This is like She-Hulk's command grab where she grabs the opponent, punching them into stun to set up a combo or KO move. This would be a high risk : high reward move thanks to shield dodging, but getting the opponent to endure pressure, make him afraid to leave, or waiting for him to shield dodge and catching him on the recovery make it easier.

[collapse=Description that goes with the zoning/grapple playstyle]
Toad rushes to the enemy and grabs the enemy. He can throws the enemy up, down, left or right which deals 9% damage. He can spin the enemy around which deals 3% damage per second. If Toad misses the enemy, he'll fall into a helpless state.

Toad's most important move. He can combine this attack with his grabs such as Toad rush to down throw --> F-throw (Carry). Toad rush travels at a long distance. Toad can even chaingrab with this attack. You can do Toad rush's down throw repeatedly on the air so the enemy can bounce on the ground which leaves him open for another grab. There are a lot of things you can do with Toad rush.

- Spin

- Forward throw

- Upward throw

- Downward throw

- Backward throw

2nd option Forward B : Kart

Toad rides on a kart and smashes through his opponent dealing 6% damage. He can ride it as long as he doesn't get hit a lot or if he jumps out of it. Using this special air born will cause him to pull out a glider from his kart.

One of Toad's unique attacks. You can use your ice flower or friendly bob-ombs while riding. This can be also used to run from your opponent OR rush to your opponent. Be warned though, if you are hit by an attack that damages over 6%, you will be kicked off your kart. The glider can be used to help Toad's horizontal recovery.

Origin and defense: Was used by Toad in the Mario Kart series. I made it different from Wario's bike. It does not act as a recovery.

2nd option Upward Special : Super Jump

Toad charges then jumps in mid air!

The recovery is as high as Sonic's recovery. While rising up, it deals 10% damage. He's not helpless after but he can't jump or recover.

Origin: Was used by Toad in Super Mario Bros. 2.

Forward throw : Carry

Toad carries the enemy around. He can throw the enemy which deals 8% damage.

Origin: Was used by Toad in Super Mario Bros. 2, Wario woods and NSMB Wii.

Downward throw : Breakdance

Toad break dances and makes the enemy slide on the ground causing a trip/prat fall effect on him/her. It deals 8% damage.

FINAL SMASH(2nd option)

RAINBOW STAR!!!​

Toad pulls out a rainbow star and abosorbs it's power turning more powerful and grants him the ability not to flinch no matter how powerful the enemy's attack is! It also enhances Toad's moveset! The form lasts for 10 seconds so make the most out of it!​

Changes in this form:

Speed change

Toad is capable of running as fast as Captain Falcon.

Neutral B : Triple Ice

Toad can now shoot 3 ice balls at the same time

Forward B : Cheep charger

Toad uses the cheep charger instead of a kart. Now, Toad can't be beaten off his ride plus he's faster and it damages 10%.

Upward B : Unlimited recovery

Toad can keep flying upwards as long as you hold the analog up.

Downward B: Giant Bob-omb

Toad can throw giant bob-omb! He can only throw one but it's HUGE. It can grab enemies and throw them and it can cause massive explosion!

Dash attack : Toad charge (Chargeable)

Toad's dash attack is now chargeable. Just hold the A button during the dash attack

All of Toad's attacks

Toad's attacks are faster, stronger and better!

The zoning/grapple style​

Toad may have potential for combos but he lacks the range to show off his combo skills. Fortunately, his array of projectiles, a kart and some long ranged attacks with mushrooms make him a great character for camping. His ice flower can be used for camping while his bob-omb buddies are used for mindgames. You can use his kart to retreat from enemies (It's better used that way) while using your bob-ombs and ice flower. His primary melee attacks are his downward smash, forward tilt and his backward aerial since all of them support Toad's defensive and campy playstyle. Toad can also be a rushdown character but it's not recommended to use it against long range characters. Toad's primary moves for approach are all his grabs, neutral combo, upward attack, backward aerial and upward aerial because they all support as combo attacks. To finish combos, toad can use Neutral aerial, Forward aerial, Downward aerial, Upward smash or Forward tilt due to their quick start and good knockback. Unfortunately, all these opportunities are hindered by his small range. That doesn't make it impossible for him to rush though but it's a major flaw. Toad's defensive play is safer and it is a better way to slowly rack up damage with out trying to use Toad's bear range. Toad's throws are extremely useful but it's hindered by the small/tiny grab range. His forward throw is carry which means he can carry the enemy around. His down throw makes enemies slip while his back throw does the huge knockback. What makes his grabs better are the fact that he can grab enemies in 2 ways both on ground and mid-air. This also gives Toad the ability to chain grab in the air if he uses Toad rush. Toad rush is Toad's special grab (Forward B). He can spin the enemy to rack up damage and hit opponents and he can throw enemies in any directions. If you're air born, you can Toad rush the enemy, thrown him down then Toad rush him again. His grabs are dangerous and that's what makes him hard to approach to.

Onto the competitive part, we know Toad's main play is grabbing and defense. He has potential for offense but lacks the range and safety to do it. Toad's ice flower can be used for camping. It's slow but that makes it a threat in the air. Not the ground. You can shoot out multiple ice flowers in the air while using your bob-omb buddies on the ground. That way, the opponent must be aware of the ice flowers that travel slowly in the air and the bob-ombs the follow him/her on the ground. Toad's grab can grapple both on ground and mid air. You can use grab followed after or before Toad rush. Toad rush is capable of chain grabbing enemies in mid air. You can throw the enemy downwards to make him bounce on the ground then grab him or do Toad rush then throw him down again. Toad's grab range is poor but Toad rush has long range since Toad charges to the enemy. You can grab the enemy then throw him forward then do Toad rush to regrab him again. You can incorporate his grab games with your defensive/zoning play. You can Toad rush the enemy and throw him to your bob ombs or ice shots. You can Toad rush the enemy, throw him down to the bob-ombs then he gets hit by the bob-ombs then you regrab him or Toad rush him again.

Rushdown and Mix-Up Style​

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Thanks to Kuma for the write-up​

Toad is a small, speedy character. His damage isn't very high and his attack range is poor due to his short limbs, but his number of mobility options and insane mixup potential can make up for these weaknesses. Because of his insane mixup potential, Toad has quite possibly one of, if not the, highest learning curve when it comes to strategic play as playing Toad requires you to be adaptive and appear random to be good with him.

Toad's attacks support this playstyle in a very nice way that is bound to get a number of players hating you for your mixups (this means you're doing it right).

Toad's Bomb attack allows Toad to zone a little bit, but he's no Dhalsim or Lambda-11. In fact, it's highly recommended to exploit the fact that only one bomb can appear at a time. So, you can choose to either let it explode or do a bait and switch and trap the opponent in an unfavorable position of the stage. Another thing about Toad's bombs is that they compensate for Toad's lacking range in his attacks. With his ability to throw the bomb in different directions, including a catapult direction, you have yourself a couple of defensive options. Be warned though, your opponent can dodge these bombs and the recovery from throwing isn't pretty. It's somewhat of a high risk move, but keeping them off is worth it. It's best to use this move in a combo or as a counterattack.

Toad's Headbutt is a grappling move, but at the same time, not. The purpose of this move is to get the opponent in a stunned state and unleash some deadly damage. With this move, you can your shield pressure, but you must be unpredictable with when you do this. This move's counter are the shield dodge and rolls so you must learn to wait for it come out before doing a headbutt. It's another risky move, but it's a highly rewarding move with the right combo.

Toad's Power Squat Jump is probably the most standard looking move out of Toad's specials. This move has Toad do a high jump in any of the three aerial directions (up, up-forward, up-backwards) with the hitbox of the attack being Toad's heads. Anyone familiar with Balrog's headbutt will have an idea for what I'm talking about.

Now for the defining move of Toad's playstyle: Toad Rush. This move will without a doubt be the most used move in Toad's arsenal as this starts his mixup game. When using this move, Toad has access to four followup attacks exclusive to the Toad Rush. The first attack is a simple stop which is useful for feints and comboing into normals. The second one is to have Toad run in the opposite direction. Aside from feinting, this keeps Toad in the Rush state and you can even dash dance with it with enough practice. The third move is Super Jump which is like Power Squat Jump, but not as high. This is best used for evasive purposes and to get in on zoning characters so you jump over their projectiles. The last move is probably the most important. The last attack is a sliding grab. Best used as a punishment move, this attack has Toad slide in and then toss the opponent in one of four directions of your choice. This is especially important as when the opponent lands from the attack, both of you must guess what happens next. Will he tech on the spot, to the left, to the right, or not at all. There is a brief moment when both of you must guess on each other. You guess right, you get to continue the chain grab. The only one of the four directions that doesn't do this is the Upward grab which has DI in place, but Toad's attacks like the FAir are deadly in this position if Toad reads correctly.

Toad's normals come into play with his specials. Like said earlier, FAir is perfect for the followup on the sliding up grab as at high percents, this is Toad's big killing move. Another notable normal is his DAir. Combing this with the stop or Super Jump from Toad Rush, you have range for landing this attack. Toad also has a short hop so combine that his aerials and jump cancel from his normals for some nice pressure.

If you choose to play Toad, you will have one of the deepest, most challenging characters to learn in the game. If you like annoying your opponent into submission, enjoy fast characters, and enjoy a good thinking challenge, Toad is the character for you.

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TOAD ESSAY v2
Credit to Spydr Enzo. Some parts were added by me (Berserker01)

Spoiler

Toad… one of the most iconic characters of the Mario series and a popular group that has been with the series since it’s beginning. Does Toad deserve a playable spot on the roster of a future Super Smash Bros. game? Of course!

First of all, I want to make this clear. I am not a Toad fanboy… I am simply defending Toad, a character that has been shot down by many throughout the years for many dumb, ignorant reasons. It bugs to to see that there are many people who believe that he literally has no chance of appearing at all, or that it is very unlikely compared to other Mario characters. I just want to clear up this misunderstanding.

NOW... why is Toad a perfectly viable (and likely) candidate for a future Super Smash Bros.?

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First, let us discuss the history of the little Mushroom Retainer, and where he got his fame, popularity, and significance to the series.

Toad first appeared in the first ever Super Mario game Super Mario Bros. on the NES, the game that really kicked off the series toward the fame it claims today. Since this game, Toad has appeared in some way in pretty much every single one of the series' major titles since the very beginning of it's entire existence. That already is a lot more than many other characters from the series can say.

Throughout these games, Toad has taken on the role of the advice-giver, the distressed character in need of saving, and in at least two major Mario titles, Super Mario Bros. 2 for the NES and New Super Mario Bros. Wii for the Wii, he has been playable. Not to mention that he was the star of the NES/SNES puzzle game Wario's Woods. Toad's appears frequently in most of Mario's platformers, and has been especially frequent within the Super Mario Galaxy games, where the Toad Brigade joins Mario on many occasions throughout his adventures.

This doesn't even include the Mario Spin-off titles. Toad has appeared as a playable character in a big chunk of Mario spin-offs, and in a few others, he has taken the role of the game's host in one way or another. Toad is one of the "Mario Big Eight," (Mario, Luigi, Peach, Yoshi, Donkey Kong, Wario, Bowser, and Toad), the eight characters that have appeared in the majority of Mario spin-off titles since their beginning, and still appear quite frequently. Notice that Toad is the only character in the "Mario Big Eight" to not be represented in Smash.

Despite Toad's vast popularity, fame, and involvement with the series, many continue to argue that his "small roles" are what is bringing him down. They fail to even consider the idea that having "small roles" won't always hurt a characters chances. Toad may not have some of the biggest, most important roles in the games, but you definitely cannot say he is not important to the series. If you say this, you are ignoring the fact that he has appeared in pretty much every major Mario title and spin-off since the beginning of the series' entire existence. You are ignoring the fact that he has become an iconic character of the series and possibly even of Nintendo in general throughout his history.

It really baffles me how people can say that Fawful is more deserving because he is "more important." I also find find it funny that people who argue in favor of Fawful over Toad use the argument that he is newer and therefore more recognizable among younger fans. They seem to be neglecting the fact that Toad is well-known not only among younger fans, but of anyone who has ever played any major Mario game no matter how old they are. Sure, being newer doesn't hurt, and being the villain of three Mario games is an important role, but is that really important to the series as a whole? Is he iconic? Is he as well-known, familiar, recognizable or popular as Toad? Ask anyone even remotely familiar with Mario who Toad is, they will more than likely know. You can't do the same with Fawful. Imagine the reaction of Toad's removal from the series compared to the reaction of Fawful never returning again...

Another thing that I find strange is when people who support Bowser Jr. shoot down Toad because of his "diminishing, small roles" within the games. What about Bowser Jr.? The only major role he has ever had in any game was in Super Mario Sunshine for the GCN. Since then, he has been nothing but a mini-boss, and a character who occasionally shows up a taunts the player in games like New Super Mario Bros. Wii. Toad's role has actually grown quite a lot recently... he has had his first playable appearance in any mainstream Mario game since Super Mario Bros. 2 in New Super Mario Bros. Wii, and has appeared more (plus with a more interesting role) in the Super Mario Galaxy games then in any previous 3D Mario Platformer. Honestly, how can anyone that supports Bowser Jr. bash Toad's "diminishing role?" without blatantly ignoring these facts? Toad has everything he needs. Popularity, fame and importance to the Mario series. Toad was awarded with the "Character who needs his own spin-offs" award both in ign and game daily. His popularity is significantly bigger than Bowser Jr. In the Oricon Poll, Toad was voted to be the 8th most popular character in Japan. He's even more important than Jr. to the series. He was one of the most celebrated characters in the 25th anniversary of Mario. About comparing roles between Jr. and Toad. Why is it that people think Jr. has a bigger role than Toad? You guys know that being important in the series is better than having a big role in the series. Since when was Jr. popular? No one has shown a source about it. Sure I can see it in the discussion but is he more popular than Toad? Toad had the 4th highest number of votes among the Mario reps. Overall in the melee poll, he was 6th highest (Behind Bowser, Peach, Wario, Ganon and Dedede). That's probably the reason why he didn't appear. Wario took the newcomer slot first to him. Well... That's one of the reasons (Sort of). The reason why Diddy got first to Toad is because he has his own series. Since he got a pretty good number of votes, he was in SSBB. He is part of the Mario series but the truth is that he's part of the Donkey Kong series. According to Shortie's poll, Toad was the most requested asides from the 4 mario reps. I don't know if it's important but then again, Toad got the highest amount of votes. One more thing is that Toad had 2 spin-offs where he is the main character "Wario Woods NES and SNES". What does Bowser Jr. have? Nothing. What makes the Oricon poll a huge plus is that it came from Japan.


So, what have we learned so far? Being iconic and significant to a series in general is more important than being important to a small fraction of the series' games. We've also learned that having a small role in any specific game(s) of the series really doesn't matter when compared to the character's overall significance to the series, as well as their popularity and familiarity among all gamers and many non-gamers alike.

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That last section was the big one. I think I made my point quite clear. Now, on to different subject. One argument in particular that still bugs me is the "generic species" argument.

The argument that Toad is a "generic species" is incredibly ignorant. First of all, we all know this. Toad is a part of a generic species, no one is trying to hide it. The fact is that in this case, it doesn't really matter. Take Yoshi for example. Besides in the Mario Spin-off titles, was there ever just a single Yoshi? No, the player has always controlled a Yoshi. Never THE Yoshi. Yoshi always appears as a generic species, and yet he has his place on the Smash Bros. roster. Why does the idea seem so ridiculous in Toad's case? Honestly, I'd like to know. It really baffles me.

Now just for a second, let's take a look at the Mario Spin-off titles. Obviously, being a part of the "Mario Big Eight," both Yoshi and Toad have appeared in the majority of these titles. When you see Yoshi in Mario Kart, you don't think "Hey, there's a Yoshi," do you? It's always "Hey, there's Yoshi." The same goes for Toad. In the spin-offs, and in games like Super Mario Bros. 2 and Wario's Woods it always seems as if you are playing as THE Toad rather than just any random Toad. This illusion of playing as THE Yoshi or THE Toad rather than a Yoshi or a Toad is what allows them to break free of their "generic species" status when it is appropriate. Having "broken free," Toad is able to appear alone in a game like Smash without being a Toad, but rather THE Toad.

Now, I know someone will argue that, by this logic, Goomba and Koopa are appropriate choices for a future Smash. This is not true... they have appeared in the spin-off titles, but not enough to have "broken free" of generic species status yet. The fact that they appear as generic baddies in large numbers in the majority of Mario games also keeps them within that "generic species" group, unlike Toad and Yoshi.


What have we learned from this? The "generic species" argument is a worthless, ignorant argument against Toad. Don't try it.

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One final point that I'd like to address is the argument that Toad is an unoriginal, un-unique (is that a word???) character that lacks moveset potential. I find this laughably false.

First of all, Toad is probably one of the most unique Mario characters not represented in Smash. I can't even fathom how Bowser Jr. supporters can use this argument against Toad when Bowser Jr. is basically a mini Bowser. What other major character in the Mario universe resembles Toad? Toad looks like the other Toads? What about Yoshi? You can call the one and only green Yoshi "Yoshi". The same for Toad. You can call the one and only Toad "Toad". Plus, like Yoshi, he's one among the other species.

Toad is NOT generic. He's from a generic race but THE TOAD (Toad) is not generic. He's the one that started the whole concept of how a Toad should look like. You know, it's like some guy in the city looked unique and cool so you copied his style. That's what Shigeru did. He made multiple toads (and yoshis) and there! It became a species.

Toad is unique. More unique than Paper Mario and Jr. Paper Mario is simply a paper form of mario. Bowser Jr. is obviously a mini bowser or baby bowser clone. Toad does not resemble to anyone other than his fellow species of course. Paper Mario and Jr. is unique. Their abilities are extremely unique-- I don't know about Jr. though. He does exactly what Bowser does except he has that paint brush but that's the only thing that does not make him a full clone. He rides a clown car, he shoots fire balls and he does that spinny shell attack. Paper Mario is extremely unique. The character is not unique since it's just Mario but what he does is unique. Toad on the other hand is unique in both ways. Like I said, he does not resemble to any main or major mario character. He also has unique abilities such as running up walls, super human strength for a small guy, super speed and using spores and mushrooms as a weapon and defense. All of the 3 are unique in their own way. There's nothing wrong with adding Paper Mario or Bowser Jr. I wouldn't even mind if there were 6 characters in the Mario series. After all, the more, the merrier.

Second, let's talk about Toad's playstyle and moveset potential. Being a small character, Toad is known for being very quick, but he is also known for seeming to have superhuman strength as seen in Super Mario Bros. 2. Being a small and quick yet strong character is something not seen often, and could present a unique play-style. Now what about his moveset?

Many moves from the games he has been playable in can be looked at in determining this. Notice that in the three games where he appears as a playable protagonist (Super Mario Bros. 2, Wario's Woods, and New Super Mario Bros. Wii), the gameplay involves lifting things and throwing/dropping them. This is one obvious ability that Toad could acquire; lifting and throwing characters. The charged high-jump from Super Mario Bros. 2 is another possibility for a move, a move that would probably be utilized as an Up-B recovery move. In Wario's Woods, Toad is given bombs to throw, another possible move. He could also use the new power-ups found in New Super Mario Bros. Wii as an assortment of abilities, not to mention abilities found in Mario spin-off titles. And don't forget that there are many moves that could be designed specially for Toad without making him seem out of character. With this in mind, plus the fact that there are many different elements throughout the Mario series from which he could borrow his moves, you can't deny that Toad does indeed have moveset potential.

Toad's moveset could be comprised of items and mushrooms with melee attacks. Why is it that people do not allow Toad to use items when Mario, Luigi and Diddy use items? Fire Flower? Banana? Why can't Toad use an Ice flower or the propeller cap? Some people think Toad has nothing new to bring but mushrooms. That is a useless statement. Just like Kirby and Pikachu, he's fast and strong but he has low jumps. He channels his power through mushrooms. There are hardly any characters that use a mushroom as a power. So you're saying Ridley will offer nothing but Tail whipping action?

In fact, we have a comprehensive moveset for him already: (See the top hidden message)

Some people think that Toad has no personality. No personality!? He's extremely expressive. He laughs a lot, cries a lot, and gets angry. He's a strong but cowardly and he can get mad at times. He's also courageous at times (Proven in Mario Galaxy). Some people think Toad wasn't the Toad in Mario sunshine and in Mario Galaxy. If you check the manuals, the Red Toad is the Toad. The reason for the color of the vest is unknown. It's probably to make it not out of place.

What have we learned here? We know that Toad is an original, unique character that could have a different sort of play-style as well as having good potential for a moveset.

Another thing that annoys me is the fact that people think he won't get in simply because he's a moveset. Haven't I explained this before? This problem is SO EASY to solve. Paletuna is way harder because she can't be confused with another Paletuna or someone else. Toad can be replaced with another Toad. So for all you people who use this excuse, don't try it. It's futile and useless.

Why not just leave him as is. For all you know, that Toad may be another Toad. Sakurai could use the model of that or the Toad then there. Easy as heck. Sakurai does know Toad. In fact, he knew that Toad had super human strength and super speed. I don't know how he knew...... It's pretty weird....

Isn't this actually something that can help Toad? Not detract him. You can say that for the other characters since they had a model too (The trophy stands) but Toad was one of them. Also, he would have been possible in melee since he had running animations but then again, Peach and Bowser overtook him. The reason why he did not enter brawl was mainly because of Wario.

Toad's moveset status is a positive thing. It's not meant to detract Toad. This is what proves as my evidence and second proof that Sakurai is interested with Toad:

The fact that Jr. did not make any appearance at all along with Paper Mario made it a bit weird...... I'm not against them. They gave a great chance

Remember the melee poll? Ridley had no sign of appearance in melee even with high votes. Toad appeared as a moveset. I found it reasonable why he did not get in... It was cause of Wario. One more note, he was requested since the melee speculation days you know.... Why is it that Sakurai would got through the trouble of making Toad the neutral b when he's not peach's FAITHFUL signature attack. There's no negative reason.... In fact..... It boosts his chances.

Why is it that people say that "Sakurai wouldn't break his back to make Toad". In fact, Toad is the easiest to make since there is a model for him already.

Remember, Paper Mario and Jr. were one of the most expected new comers but what happened? They did not appear. Not an assist trophy or even a cameo or moveset. Not even a boss. At least Toad and Ridley appeared in the game. This proves a lot of things. It proves that Sakurai did not care about Jr. and Paper Mario. They said it themselves that they can develop Ridley. The problem is they didn't. They had to make him a boss. Toad was a moveset for a reason. Not because Sakurai had no interest in him. I explained about this before but I'll say it again. If he really didn't care about Toad, he wouldn't have made him the neutral b. It would have been something else. It goes to show that he still is interested in Toad. Not saying Jr and Paper Mario are unlikely though.

What have we learned here? The moveset excuse is useless. Don't try it.

-

How about a quick recap. What have we learned?
-Being iconic and significant to a series in general is more important than being important to a small fraction of the series' games. We've also learned that having a small role in any specific game(s) of the series really doesn't matter when compared to the character's overall significance to the series, as well as their popularity and familiarity among all gamers and many non-gamers alike
-The "generic species" argument is a worthless, ignorant argument against Toad. Don't try it.
-We know that Toad is an original, unique character that could have a different sort of play-style as well as having good potential for a moveset.
-The moveset excuse is useless. Don't try it.

Any other concerns?


I think I just about covered everything. Please note, that while I did attack Bowser Jr. several times, I do not deny the great possibility of him joining the playable roster in a future Smash. I'd actually put him on or near the same level as Toad, and I wouldn't even be surprised to see both appear.

But I'm here right now to defend Toad.

Just look at everything Toad has going for him. You can't say he is unlikely, or has no chance... in fact it is quite the opposite. This is a character that is popular, familiar, and recognizable among anyone remotely familiar with Mario, as well as unique, original, and iconic of it's series and possibly even iconic of Nintendo itself. This is a character that has been a part of the series since the beginning of it's existence and is still going strong. If a character like this doesn't deserve to be in Smash, the really, I don't know who does.

One last thing I would like to state is this elimination round about who Mario rep while most likely be added:
[collapse= elimination rounds]
Lets do a process of elimination to see who are the best choices to market the Marioverse games to the customers and, at the same time, make the fans happy.

The majority of Marioverse games are spin-off games (Kart, Tennis, Golf, Party, etc.) because they sell. Lets start with the playable characters in those games.

Bumper
Cranky Kong
Baby Daisy
Baby Donkey Kong
Baby Luigi
Baby Mario
Baby Peach
Birdo
Blooper
Boo
Bowser
Bowser Jr.
Daisy
Diddy Kong
Dixie Kong
Donkey Kong
Donkey Kong Jr.
Dr. Mario
Drumstick
Dry Bones
Dry Bowser
Fly Guy
Funky Kong
Goomba
Hammer Bro.
Kalypso
Kass
King Boo
King K. Rool
Kip
Kludge
Klump
Koopa Kid
Koopa Paratroopa
Koopa Troopa
Kopter
Kritter
Krunch
Lanky Kong
Luigi
Magikoopa
Mario
Metal Mario
Monty Mole
Noki
Paragoomba
Peach
Petey Piranha
Pianta
Pipsy
Rosalina
Shy Guy
Taj the Genie
Timber
Tiny Kong
Tiptup
Toad
Toadette
Toadsworth
T.T.
Waluigi
Wanda
Wario
Wiggler
Wizpig
Wrinkly Kong
Yoshi

We have many characters who appeared exclusively in spin-off games. Lets make another list with characters who have appeared in canon games (platformers and RPGs).

Cranky Kong
Baby Donkey Kong
Baby Luigi
Baby Mario
Baby Peach
Birdo
Blooper
Boo
Bowser
Bowser Jr.
Daisy
Diddy Kong
Dixie Kong
Donkey Kong
Donkey Kong Jr.
Dry Bones
Dry Bowser
Fly Guy
Funky Kong
Goomba
Hammer Bro.
King Boo
King K. Rool
Klump
Koopa Paratroopa
Koopa Troopa
Kopter
Kritter
Lanky Kong
Luigi
Magikoopa
Mario
Metal Mario
Monty Mole
Noki
Paragoomba
Peach
Petey Piranha
Pianta
Rosalina
Shy Guy
Tiny Kong
Toad
Toadsworth
Wario
Wiggler
Wrinkly Kong
Yoshi

There are still many generic species on the list. So lets remove all the generic species who were never playable in canon games and see who are left.

Cranky Kong
Baby Donkey Kong
Baby Luigi
Baby Mario
Baby Peach
Bowser
Bowser Jr.
Daisy
Diddy Kong
Dixie Kong
Donkey Kong
Donkey Kong Jr.
Dry Bowser
Funky Kong
King Boo
King K. Rool
Lanky Kong
Luigi
Mario
Metal Mario
Peach
Petey Piranha
Rosalina
Tiny Kong
Toad
Toadsworth
Wario
Wrinkly Kong
Yoshi

There are some characters who have been in one or two canon games. Lets make another list with recurring characters who have been in three or more canon games.

Cranky Kong
Baby Luigi
Baby Mario
Bowser
Bowser Jr.
Diddy Kong
Dixie Kong
Donkey Kong
Funky Kong
King Boo
King K. Rool
Luigi
Mario
Peach
Petey Piranha
Toad
Toadsworth
Wario
Wrinkly Kong
Yoshi

Finally, we make a list with recurring playable heroes and recurring unplayable villains in canon games.

Baby Mario
Bowser
Bowser Jr.
Diddy Kong
Dixie Kong
Donkey Kong
King Boo
King K. Rool
Luigi
Mario
Peach
Petey Piranha
Toad
Wario
Yoshi

The majority of the Marioverse games are spin-off games. It is best to have the original Mario Big Eight because they market games to the customers and make fans happy. The major recurring characters from the Donkey Kong Country trilogy are in spin-off games because they market the games and make the fans happy. It is best to have these familar characters who can really resonate with customers and fans.

Mario Series
Mario
Luigi
Peach
Toad
Bowser

Donkey Kong Series
Donkey Kong
Diddy Kong
Dixie Kong
King K. Rool

Yoshi Series
Yoshi

Wario Series
Wario

[/collapse]

Thank you and please support Toad for SSB 4!​

[/collapse]

 

[Berserker.]

And, what exactly would that do? Like, the kart thing at least, I think Sakurai would give Toad something a little more appropriate, but then again Wario has his bike, hmm...

I think it's "appropriate" enough.

It acts like a kart and a well.... a new move. It also is a reminiscence of Super Mario Bros 2. except with a twist.

So in other words, anything is appropriate as long as it has some sort of origin. You want an origin? Then here: This move was actually from SMB 2 but we gave a little tweak by combining it with the kart making it a rush attack plus thanks to his grapple abilities, it became the toad rush.

Killing 3 birds with one stone. Bam

 

[OmegaXXII]

Yes, I see you guys twisted to possible moveset options, incorporated them together and created some which comes from it, I like it.

Also, I completely forgot about Fawful, I don't even know who he/she? is.. was it being suggested during Brawl?

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

http://www.gonintendo.com/content/uploads/images/2011_09/51f-O9HwYwL.jpg

Just popping in to say that I love what DK's doing in this picture.

 

[OmegaXXII]

Well, in referance to the Mario artwork being recycled like Morrigan's, I think it's safe to say that the Wii-U will probably change all that since the graphical leap will now be in HD, meaning more polygon counts and better, fleshed out models, also, Mario and gang's appearance does seem to make a graphical transition in Smash regardless of the canon/spin-off titles it may have so....

 

[y.toonlink]

Yoshi looks too familiar, but that cover art isn't a fake right?

 

[SmashChu]

@SmashChu
Berserker said it best as to what I was getting at. I didn't mean to do something slightly out of character. Rather, I meant to think outside of the box in regards how to implement it. The Toad Rush we came up with was born from the Golden Mushroom in the Mario Kart games. This was also mixed with how Toad is a small, but fast lifter (see SMB 2) so that's where the inspiration from El Fuerte came from.

If we didn't think out of the box, we probably would've had something similar to Sonic's Side B and that wouldn't really stick out.

I said pretty much what I was going to say in the last post. But from what you've described, the move seems way more forced. Doesn't sound that fun to use, and could be attributed to any character who is fast. Pikachu could do it. Fox could do it. Which goes back to what I'm saying: that doesn't have much to do with Toad and has more with trying to put an El Fuerte character in the game. In other words, you looked at the moves first and try to place them in rather than look at the character and make moves for them.

I guess I'm tooting my own horn here, but the idea I had for Toad was that he could pull out items and use them. This stems back to where Toads are notorious for giving the player items to progress in the game.

I thought the idea by looking at what Toad does and who he is. Not so much thinking up moves he could do. Now I'm sure you can find plenty of moves to rip from other games and add into new characters. It can be done (Mario). But it's probably better to focus on the character rather than trying to cram moves in there.

 

[SubparSmashBrother]

Batman should be playable. I know he said that characters have to have originated in video games, but he could change his rules and criteria between games. And Batman has an even bigger fanbase than sonic.

 

[OmegaXXII]

Yoshi looks too familiar, but that cover art isn't a fake right?

Nope, sadly that's official artwork and it looks like it will be released like that.