*New* Official Rob Stage Discussion (Phase 4: Lylat Cruise)

[GwJ]

So..I refuse to let this one die down. Period We are going to go stage to stage until we finish all of the CP's (We all know the neutrals so we can save them for last :*) Each week will be a new discussion.

Our job is to discuss the:
Advantages for R.O.B
Disadvantages for R.O.B
Who do we bring here
Who do we ban this against
Any other special details that are stage specific


Stages:
Neutral Counter

Lylat Cruise
Halberd
Pokémon Stadium 1
Castle Siege (Week 2)


Counter

Delfino Plaza
Brinstar (Week 1)
Frigate Orpheon
Rainbow Cruise
Jungle Japes
Pirate Ship
PictoChat
Pokémon Stadium 2


Lets do this :O



----
Week 1 (Brinstar):
Advantages for R.O.B: Laser goes through platforms, and gyro drops into the breakable stage leads to more camping
Disadvantages for R.O.B: Lava eats gyros for breakfast. No gyro = no fun.
Who do we bring here: Falco, IC's, or Diddy
Who do we ban this against: Mk, Kirby, DK, Jiggs, Peach, Zelda,
Any other special details that are stage specific

losing your Gyro for prolonged periods of time generally isn't a good thing.

Dropping a gyro on the middle section is awesome as the gyro will hit the section until it splits allowing us to camp. This is also one of the few spots that the gyro bouncing in the middle is good for us.

Well, in Brinstar we can have kills earlier than usual with Fsmash, Nair, Bair(Side KOs) and Usmash(Up KOs). The last one is pretty good when used under one of the two side plattforms. However, here we can't camp the way ROB likes, which means that we need to play closer to the opponent and this is a problem when u r facing a MK, for example.

Besides killing options, Brinstar's plattforms also give us an extra way to get aerials, especially when the opponent lags, but they can put us in a bad position as ROB sucks above most of the characters.
Oh ****, no gimps =0

 

[TheMike]

Ignore this.

 

[Deadweight]

*New* Official Rob Stage Discussion (WEEK 3: Delphino)

So..I refuse to let this one die down. Period We are going to go stage to stage until we finish all of the CP's (We all know the neutrals so we can save them for last :*) Each week will be a new discussion.

Our job is to discuss the:
Advantages for R.O.B
Disadvantages for R.O.B
Who do we bring here
Who do we ban this against
Any other special details that are stage specific


Stages:
Neutral Counter

Lylat Cruise
Halberd
Pokémon Stadium 1
Castle Siege (Week 2)


Counter

Delfino Plaza
Brinstar (Week 1)
Frigate Orpheon
Rainbow Cruise
Jungle Japes
Pirate Ship
PictoChat
Pokémon Stadium 2


Lets do this :O



----
Week 1 (Brinstar):
Advantages for R.O.B: Laser goes through platforms, and gyro drops into the breakable stage leads to more camping
Disadvantages for R.O.B: Lava eats gyros for breakfast. No gyro = no fun.
Who do we bring here: Falco, IC's, or Diddy
Who do we ban this against: Mk, Kirby, DK, Jiggs, Peach, Zelda,
Any other special details that are stage specific

losing your Gyro for prolonged periods of time generally isn't a good thing.

Dropping a gyro on the middle section is awesome as the gyro will hit the section until it splits allowing us to camp. This is also one of the few spots that the gyro bouncing in the middle is good for us.

Well, in Brinstar we can have kills earlier than usual with Fsmash, Nair, Bair(Side KOs) and Usmash(Up KOs). The last one is pretty good when used under one of the two side plattforms. However, here we can't camp the way ROB likes, which means that we need to play closer to the opponent and this is a problem when u r facing a MK, for example.

Besides killing options, Brinstar's plattforms also give us an extra way to get aerials, especially when the opponent lags, but they can put us in a bad position as ROB sucks above most of the characters.
Oh ****, no gimps =0

 

[Deadweight]

We are starting off on one I hear mixed opinions about and I get cped to all the **** time

BRINSTAR

Discuss!

 

[-LzR-]

I am not a very experienced player, but I personally don't like this stage for ROB, the slopes can mess our dtil and bounce our lazer to unwanted places.
Well a good thing is that gyro bounces in the acid like crazy making a good stage controller.

In short:

+Laser goes through breakable pillars.
+Gyro bounces in acid forever.
+Short vertical deathzones allow us to kill easily with Fsmash

-Our recovery loses it's potential.
-Acid can save others recoveries.
-The slope messes up laser and tilts.

What to do in this stage:
Clear your move decay in those mushrooms to allow us get a fresh Fsmash to kill early in this stage.

Who to bring here:
NO idea...

Who NOT to bring here:
Jigglypuff and DK, not sure about others on this stage.

 

[Sudai]

+Gyro bounces in acid forever.

Uh.. losing your Gyro for prolonged periods of time generally isn't a good thing.

Dropping a gyro on the middle section is awesome as the gyro will hit the section until it splits allowing us to camp. This is also one of the few spots that the gyro bouncing in the middle is good for us.

Who to bring here:
Falco? He gets FSmash KOs easier, but his camping game drops signifigantly. ****. I wish I had though to try this while I was in Dallas..Sethlon would be the perfect person to test this on.. :/

Who NOT to bring here:
-Jigglypuff: He'll just camp underneath the stage and get silly FAir KOs on you at like, 80% near the sides.
-DK: Never take a gorillia with you into a small cage.
-MK: If he gets the lead, he can live under the stage forever.
-Kirby: Same as MK and JP.


As an aside, you might want to link to the starting post for each stage. Linking to the starting page means people have to search and then you're screwing over people who use non-standard PPP.

 

[Deadweight]

As an aside, you might want to link to the starting post for each stage. Linking to the starting page means people have to search and then you're screwing over people who use non-standard PPP.

Obviously However seeing as Brinstar is the first week and on the first page I felt that a Link was not needed <#

 

[Sudai]

I guess I'm just a fan of completeness. :x

 

[TheMike]

What about changing the name of the topic to The *NEW* ROB Stage Discussion Official Thread? I think it would be better as the current title gives me an idea that here i can find ur personal opinions about the stages. Just a suggestion. Oh, and another suggestion, what about creating a social group for the Stage Discussers(Dead, buenob, stringers and me) so as to decide who will be the assitant and which stage will be discussed in the next week?

- - -


Advantages and Disadvantages for R.O.B.:

Well, in Brinstar we can have kills earlier than usual with Fsmash, Nair, Bair(Side KOs) and Usmash(Up KOs). The last one is pretty good when used under one of the two side plattforms. However, here we can't camp the way ROB likes, which means that we need to play closer to the opponent and this is a problem when u r facing a MK, for example.

Besides killing options, Brinstar's plattforms also give us an extra way to get aerials, especially when the opponent lags, but they can put us in a bad position as ROB sucks above most of the characters.

Oh ****, no gimps =0


All is all, we need to play closer to the opponent and avoid staying at the plattforms, but take advantage of them for punishes.

 

[Tin Man]

Advantages for R.O.B
Disadvantages for R.O.B: Camping

-The stage is small so camping is severely less effective.
-The main platform of this stage is not flat, that makes gyro less effective even when fully charged.

Who do we bring here: Anyone with a great ground game

-Snake
-Falco
-Diddy Kong
-DDD??? (chain grab is less effective)
-Pikachu???(Some1 tell me)
-Olimar
-Ice Climbers
-Kirby???(camping him is hard enough already, and his low percent combos wont work so well cause of lack of getting a grab.)
Donkey Kong
Fox
Wolf
Sonic
Sheik
Bowser
Zelda
Pokemon Trainer (Ivysaur, Charizard, not Squirtle)
Mario
Falcon
Link
Ganondorf
Who do we ban this against: No one (if I'm wrong please let me know nicely)

I believe Rainbow cruise is worse then this against characters that do better then R.O.B. here (MK, Jigglypuff, Wario, Game & Watch)

Any other special details that are stage specific: please discuss these

-The gyro bouncing in the lava (already discussed but more discussion is ok .
-Separating the level.
-Using the pillars to your advantage for stale move negation.

 

[TheMike]

I believe Rainbow cruise is worse then this against characters that do better then R.O.B. here (MK, Jigglypuff, Wario, Game & Watch)

If u r using RC as an excuse for not avoiding Brinstar against some characters, i can say that i would take most of the characters that u would take in Brinstar to Frigate.

We are discussing Brinstar, i find no problems in listing good characters against ROB there

^.-

 

[GwJ]

Advantages for R.O.B
Disadvantages for R.O.B: Camping

-The stage is small so camping is severely less effective.
-The main platform of this stage is not flat, that makes gyro less effective even when fully charged.

Who do we bring here: Anyone with a great ground game

-Snake
-Falco
-Diddy Kong
-DDD??? (chain grab is less effective)
-Pikachu???(Some1 tell me)
-Olimar
-Ice Climbers
-Kirby???(camping him is hard enough already, and his low percent combos wont work so well cause of lack of getting a grab.)
Donkey Kong
Fox
Wolf
Sonic
Sheik
Bowser
Zelda
Pokemon Trainer (Ivysaur, Charizard, not Squirtle)
Mario
Falcon
Link
Ganondorf
Who do we ban this against: No one (if I'm wrong please let me know nicely)

I believe Rainbow cruise is worse then this against characters that do better then R.O.B. here (MK, Jigglypuff, Wario, Game & Watch)

Any other special details that are stage specific: please discuss these

-The gyro bouncing in the lava (already discussed but more discussion is ok .
-Separating the level.
-Using the pillars to your advantage for stale move negation.

Is DK really on that list? Did you really say to not ban this against anyone?

 

[Sudai]

That character list is bad I'll point out why..


-Snake: KO's us at ridiculous percents. No gimping.
-Falco
-Diddy Kong
-DDD??? (chain grab is less effective): He can actually chain grab us worse here. There's a mini wall by the jellies that's big enough to psuedo wall infinite us. Been there done that. Also, BAir KO's super low.
-Pikachu???(Some1 tell me)
-Olimar: No gimp. Boundaries help him more than they help us.
-Ice Climbers
-Kirby???(camping him is hard enough already, and his low percent combos wont work so well cause of lack of getting a grab.)
-Donkey Kong: KO's us at like, -4%
-Fox: He'll break the middle and laser camp us.
-Wolf: He recovers much easier and the slants make his smashes crazy.
-Sonic
-Sheik
-Bowser: Die at like, 10%
-Zelda: Die at like. 10%
-Pokemon Trainer (Ivysaur, Charizard, not Squirtle): No gimps, die ******** low except against squirtle
-Mario
-Falcon: Knee kills us at ******** percents and it's not hard to land on ROB. Again, no gimps.
-Link: No gimps.
-Ganondorf: No gimps, low percent KO's. Can murder choke chase us like a beast.

Anyone I didn't mention, it's probably better to take to 3-4 different stages before this one. Just because taking a character here gives us a slight advantage doesn't mean we should take them here. Try to only put people in that list who you'd take here in an actual tournament. As in, "XXX if they don't ban it, YYY if they do ban it," where XXX and YYY are stages you should list that character under in this stage. ;]

 

[CJTHeroofTime]

I would never take Wario here. All his moves get extended hitboxes if he hits one of the random things on the stage. I don't like extended Superarmor frames, and the fart is annoying as hell as it is.

 

[TheMike]

Who do we bring here:
If the problems is the mini wall by the jellies, we can destroy it and even if DDD could CG here safely, it would be shorter. I don't see getting killed with Bair as a problem because DDD has Utilt that is better and Bair could be unrefreshed(possibility)

Hmm... i thinking about this and i changed my opinion. The platforms can help DDD with aerials, too. However, i can't see it giving advantage for DDD at all, but ROB doesn't take a really good advantage here, either.

So, IMO, it isn't a CP for anyone =0

Probably Falco can be a good idea.....


Who do we ban this against:
Mk, Purin, DK, Snake and Lucas for ridiculous reasons.

 

[CT Chia]

This is an awesome stage but I don't typically CP ppl here unless I really need to. This is a GREAT stage to CP diddy and ICs on, except its normally SO bad for those 2 in this matchup they almost always pull out a pocket GaW or MK. I wouldn't take a MK or GaW here generally, especially GaW. Even though I think the GaW matchup is quite easily, I rely on ground spacing with ftilts and proper shielding and aerial followups which is near impossible to drop properly with the uneven terain.

 

[Tin Man]

There seem to be way to many characters not to bring to this stage. I would say its a bad stage except against ICs and Diddy and Falco.

 

[Deadweight]

What about changing the name of the topic to The *NEW* ROB Stage Discussion Official Thread? I think it would be better as the current title gives me an idea that here i can find ur personal opinions about the stages. Just a suggestion. Oh, and another suggestion, what about creating a social group for the Stage Discussers(Dead, buenob, stringers and me) so as to decide who will be the assitant and which stage will be discussed in the next week?

I named it after me because I am running it cause no one else did O_o I really don't need any help I have the order of the stages already.

 

[TheMike]

I named it after me because I am running it cause no one else did O_o I really don't need any help I have the order of the stages already.

I would create the discussion, but i wanted to discuss first with the others Stage Discusses.

 

[Kid Nino]

Firstly seeing as I'm not all to great of a R.O.B. player you pro's may conisder this in-complete or wrong. Feel free to correct me where I'm wrong.

Advantages for R.O.B: We can use the gyro to break the middle portion allowing for easier camping. Or I'm pretty sure we can "unstale" our moves by attacking the middle and/or vertical stage connections. Also, the lava and gyros are beautiful, for me at least.
Disadvantages for R.O.B: The platforms and odd angles can make our lazers go out of control. The stage is a bit too small for me to feel comfortable bringing ROB to.
Who do we bring here: Wario, Zelda, IC, Diddy, Falco?, D3?
Who do we ban this against: MK, DK, Ike?

I apologize if this isn't up to par with the others ahead of time.

 

[Deadweight]

Who do we bring here: Wario, Zelda, IC, Diddy, Falco?, D3?

This is wario and zelda's best stage
If not best top 2.
So yea.
IMO
The only Three people id bring here are ICs Diddy and Falco. IC's are the only one I'd say Brinstar is the best choice for out of the CP list.
I ban this vs peach, mk, dk, jigglypuff and zelda
Gyro on this level is wierd due to the lava eating it

 

[TheMike]

We can use the gyro to break the middle portion allowing for easier camping.

Some characters can approach u by going under the stage and then up. Besides, the stage is too small(as u said in ur post) for a good camper game.

 

[stingers]

Can we do Castle Siege next? That is ROBs best CP imo...better than Frigate in a "standard" matchup (ie. not someone who will be utterly screwed by the lack of a ledge on the right side of Frigate)

 

[Deadweight]

Actually Castle Siege was next on my list :O

 

[TheMike]

Castle Siege is a good one to discuss. Dead, can u show ur list to us?

 

[Deadweight]

Brinstar
Castle Siege
Delfino Plaza
Frigate Orpheon
Halberd
Jungle Japes
Lylat Cruise
PictoChat
Pirate Ship
Pokémon Stadium 1
Pokémon Stadium 2
Rainbow Cruise

 

[Deadweight]

Ok so now that we are done with brinstar, we can move on to

CASTLE SEIGE !!!!

Discuss!

 

[TheMike]

Dead, wouldn't u update the OP or the second post with the discussion's information?

- - -

Advantages:

First transformation: I see gimps as the solution, especially because the edges can mess up with some recoveries, like Lucas'. The platforms allow us to get Usmash easier than usual.

All in all, at this transformation we need to play aggressively, trying to get gimps.

Second transformation: Let's try to take advantage of the walk-off. Bthrows works well the same way as Fsmashes and Bairs.

Also, camping here is nice because the stage format allows us to do so.

Third transformation: It's a normal stage. It isn't to big, but we can camp, not much, but we can. However, i'll try to play off-stage because if we get a character with poor recovery under the stage, it's a kill for us and we can do that because we have Fair and Bair has a great knock back.


Disadvantages:

At the first transformation is the none camper game possibilities. At the other ones, i don't see much problems.


That's a very nice stage for ROB.


Counterpick:

- Bowser
- Falcon
- Falco
- Ganondorf
- Ike
- Link
- Lucas
- Luigi
- Mario
- Ness
- Olimar
- Ivy
- Wolf
- Zamus

Those are the ones that i thought now. I don't even need to say why, right? Gimps... Against Falco the second transformation is really nice because he has less kill possibilities with Usmash. Also, at the first one, he can't camp.

As i said, Castle Siege is a really nice stage for us, but would prefer taking some characters that i listed to Frigate.


Ban:

- King Dedede

Because he can CG us to death at the second transformation(and also during the transformations if the opponent is fast to get a grab) and it's almost impossible to gimp him. He is the only one that i thought now.


Any other special details that are stage specific:

During the transformations...

Well, it's a nice idea to take advantage at this moment. It's almost the second transformation(which means that we can get kills from the both sides), and we can put some characters(the poor recoveries ones) in a bad position, with a grab, for example.

Imagine... we'r fighting at the third transformation, and then the stage is returning to the first one. We grab the opponent and stay at this position. It'll be like an "Air Grab"(obviously, if u grab him at the right position so as to be off-stage when the transformation completes). Then, we can kill the opponent humiliated and continuing off-stage(edgeguarding) if he tries to escape.

 

[Tin Man]

Brinstar
Castle Siege
Delfino Plaza
Frigate Orpheon
Halberd
Jungle Japes
Lylat Cruise
PictoChat
Pirate Ship
Pokémon Stadium 1
Pokémon Stadium 2
Rainbow Cruise

going in alpha betical order are we, ok ok

 

[buenob]

i find the 2nd transformation the most annoying for rob... the first one is very "offensive" in the sense that whatever character has stage advantage, it's really _really_ hard for the other character to get back to a good position... rob can abuse the ledges to shield himself from potential aerial approaches, and all of his upwards moves hit someone on the platforms (angled up fsmash ftw)...

the third transofrmation is pretty solid for rob too... just like FD but randomly gimps char's with poor recovery... so... awesome for rob

the 2nd, even though it should technically be ok, I find that the statues help other characters way more than rob... sure our laser goes through, but without the top it really doesn't do much, and then other char's can abuse the lingering hitboxes, and if you're away from that then you're near the blastzones due to the walk-offs...

 

[TheMike]

I find that the statues help other characters way more than rob

Obviously, it depends on the match-up, but in general, i don't find the statues too bad for us because as u said, the laser can go through.

It's almost forcing ur opponent to approach because if he doesn't, he can get hit by the laser. But well, it's the worst transformation because one u can get gimps and the other we don't have many problems.

 

[Deadweight]

Pikachu cant cg us the mike and Ill update the op with a synopsis asap, I had one writen but i guess it didnt save

 

[TheMike]

Pikachu cant cg us the mike and Ill update the op with a synopsis asap, I had one writen but i guess it didnt save

Fthrow CG doesn't work? =0

 

[Deadweight]

Fthrow CG doesn't work? =0

Nope. I know that mu better than anyone else trust me <3

 

[TheMike]

Nope. I know that mu better than anyone else trust me <3

Good to know. So, i don't ban Castle Siege against Pika anymore. I'll think in some others besides D3.

 

[Deadweight]

D3 is the only one I ban this against.
I really don't take anyone here. Possibly falco if he banned Frigate and I dont want to take him to brinstar in fear of MK. It doesn't offer that much of an advantage imo.

First Transformation:

RoB's best transformation, allows for easy camping and neat gyro tricks on the slope. Small left side = easy fsmash/bair kills at lower percents. and large right side = easy gimping opportunities at low percents. The two platforms offer great coverage to stand under against characters who like to drop in above you (Fox) Overall nice stage.

Second Transformation

This stage is interesting and take a little getting used too. The platforms here hinder R.O.B verrrrry much. We get stuck on one of those and we are completly vulnerable under neath us. We need to stay on the ground and bait approaches in the air through projectiles. However we cannot stay to close to the sides as many chars can KO on the sides at stupid low %s

And finally third Transformation

Ok so thats not exactly the picture...but you get the gist. It's the size of smashville except it tilts back and forth... Nothing tooo special.

Overall I might take Anyone but DDD/MK/G@W/Kirby/ Puff/Mario/Luigi/Pikachu...etc(Anyone who can juggle us easily w/ U-air OR is DDD) here if Frigate wasn't banned...

 

[TheMike]

Ill update the op with a synopsis asap

Also, put quotes from other people, if possible.

allows for easy camping and neat gyro tricks on the slope.

I can't even imagine an easy camping here. The stage is too short for so. However, gyro tricks might happen, which is a very nice point and can allow ROB to shoot a laser, and that's very situational IMO

 

[Deadweight]

Are you kidding. You sit underneath one of the platforms. Laser -> Gyro -> Laser Until they get close. Either ftilt if they are approaching from ground or at an angle, and u-air/u-tilt if they are approaching from above. Easily one of the better camping spots AND there is a ledge you can plank close to both platforms.

 

[TheMike]

You sit underneath one of the platforms. Laser -> Gyro -> Laser Until they get close. Either ftilt if they are approaching from ground or at an angle, and u-air/u-tilt if they are approaching from above.

Look at DDD, only 1 Dash>Shield>Ftilt OoS he can punish ROB's epecial attacks ending lag. Characters with reflector, too(Fox, Pit, ...). There isn't enough time for a Ftilt, Utilt or Uair, if the opponent thinks quickly.

there is a ledge you can plank close to both platforms.

Plank =/= Camp IMO

 

[kingcobra9]

i take fox, mario, luigi, link, toon link, ect. anyone with a progectile that doesn't go through the statues here alot of the same reason i bring them to luigi's mansion