New Game and Watch Matchup Thread!! Currently: Ice Climbers

[Hylian]

And last time I checked, SH N-air does go over his grab. So yeah he should be blocking it.

It's called pivot grab my friend.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Right, and I'm certain that he can't exactly grab you consistently out of your SH N-air since it goes over it.

 

[Blue Yoshi]

Am I the only GaW main that actually likes fighting against Ice Climbers? I love the match-up. I do GaW vs IC's against Grimice all the time. Probably my favourite match-up in the game. I guess I'll wait until we start discussing IC's before I go into specifics and such, but I personally think the match-up is 60-40 GaW. If you play a perfect game, there's not much IC's can do to you. They only capitalize if you mess up... so don't mess up

And no, I'm not joking. I actually do love the match-up. Probably my favourite in the game

Also, hi again, GaW boards, it's been quite a long time since I last posted here, but I'm going to start up again

 

[Novabound]

Oh yeah and DDD matchup.

Chances are NOBODY plays it correctly, and I am including UTD Zac and myself as well when I say NOBODY.

At the very least, a lot of us could definitely be doing a LOT better on BF and neutrals in general. I played Junk's D3, and I think he will agree with me when I say that D-tilt platform shenanigans are GODLY against D3. It walls the hell out of virtually everything he does. His best attacks for beating it are easy to see coming, which are <100% ledge attack, and idk F-air basically lol. It outprioritizes his B-air like 90% of the time as well.

Yeah and as I recall, we all forget to use Chef in the matchup. Otherwise really the only reason you'll ever lose this matchup is if you get impatient with kills, since he pretty much has to punish a mistake to actually KO you.

This. Chef awkward angle basically puts you outside the tip of DDD's forward tilt. I find throwing two at a time gives me enough cover to punish his action. If he shields, it's a free grab (when you go in the moment bacon hits his shield), and if he forward tilts, he gets hit by both bacon, giving you the perfect opportunity to Fair. When you're dealing with his ftilt, if you just shield it (not even power shield it) right after it hits your shield, you have enough time to drop your shield and fair before his ftilt is finished. GaW's dtilt is superior to most of his approaches IF DDD IS BELOW AND IN FRONT OF HIM. Otherwise, I always eat a ftilt or bair when I try to dtilt him. Also, go for oil :D

 

[Today]

Am I the only GaW main that actually likes fighting against Ice Climbers? I love the match-up. I do GaW vs IC's against Grimice all the time. Probably my favourite match-up in the game. I guess I'll wait until we start discussing IC's before I go into specifics and such, but I personally think the match-up is 60-40 GaW. If you play a perfect game, there's not much IC's can do to you. They only capitalize if you mess up... so don't mess up

And no, I'm not joking. I actually do love the match-up. Probably my favourite in the game

Also, hi again, GaW boards, it's been quite a long time since I last posted here, but I'm going to start up again

I enjoy Icies, too. I think it's really fun. I didn't even really think it was that bad. I don't play the matchup much but I never really hated it.

@Guys, There's a D3 main that doesn't live far from me. And he actually needs GnW help so we fight often. I also get to fight D3's on WiFi, too. I agree with dtilting the edge when they're off stage. Up B a lot because he's going to go for a grab. I like fighting him on BF. Keep him in the air and nair him a lot. Upb if you land next to him. I may be able to get videos today so I'm going to shoot for that. Actually, I'll get loads of videos today so be prepared!

 

[Noraa]

I have videos of me vs Pyronic Star (Logic) but i dont know if they are legit for discussion since they are 6months old. Also my di was horrible a couple stocks T_T, i dont think its worth the embaresment. Il post them anyways.

Friendly Set

Game1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgtyQ35Ms3w

Game2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFSkiLIXBNg&feature=related


T_T i have improve i think since then though, at least i hope so lol

 

[UTDZac]

Does anyone else think that ZSS is harder than 50:50?
Because I do.

*raises hand* I hate the ZSS matchup. I dont have any experience in it. I don't know what to do half the time, much less why i keep getting hit by so many fast attacks.

Oh yeah and DDD matchup.

Chances are NOBODY plays it correctly, and I am including UTD Zac and myself as well when I say NOBODY.

Nah son, I'm really good at the DDD matchup. When I got back into this game I got to play with a DDD main A LOT. He taught me so much about how to space, how to mind-game smashes, etc. I know this matchup inside out... all the little tricks (like getup attack on yoshis loses to G&W's fsmash). I really like this matchup.

Pikachu beats G&W 60:40. Sorry guys.

No comment =/



@Olimar Discussion: I hate fighting against Olimars. I think the advantage is given to whoever knows the matchup more (I dont know it very well atm). Olimar has so many weird disjointed hitboxes and quick attacks, it gets annoying at times.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Nah son, I'm really good at the DDD matchup. When I got back into this game I got to play with a DDD main A LOT. He taught me so much about how to space, how to mind-game smashes, etc. I know this matchup inside out... all the little tricks (like getup attack on yoshis loses to G&W's fsmash). I really like this matchup.

UTD Zac, I will love you forever if you show me a match of G&W's BF D-tilt shenanigans being used CORRECTLY. =)

 

[UTDZac]

G&W's BF D-tilt shenanigans?

Might not be dtilt happy, but this might work: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEzF9wfvWe4

 

[Noraa]

So is like fogo not airdodging the fair after upb or does upb and fair actually connect.....?

 

[Today]

I'm currently working on the Matchup Chart. It's looking pretty spiffy at the moment. You guys will surely love it. (': It's going to take some time, though!


Edit: Sadly, I didn't get any videos because I left my SD card at home from the smashfest. I'll see what I can do.

 

[Fogo]

So is like fogo not airdodging the fair after upb or does upb and fair actually connect.....?

I could have airdodged

 

[A2ZOMG]

G&W's BF D-tilt shenanigans?

Might not be dtilt happy, but this might work: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEzF9wfvWe4

On Battlefield, G&W can sit on a platform and D-tilt tall characters from above when they are standing below and in front of you.

DDD is one of those characters you can do this to. It walls the hell out of a lot of his stuff, and if he's over 100% and on the edge, he has to edgeroll to get past platform D-tilt edgetrapping (if he's under 100%, his getup attack reaches the platform).

I did this to Junk's D3, so he can testify for me that this is a good strategy.

 

[TheHebrewHammer]

55/45 olimars favor =/ Play super aggro against them.

 

[A2ZOMG]

I was about to call you crazy, until I remembered that you can spotdodge his shieldgrab after doing various aerials on his shield...so yeeeeah I guess. I prefer poking him with SH N-airs though.

 

[Noraa]

^^i use bair way more then nair in this mu for spacing

 

[Today]

Against Olimar?

 

[Noraa]

yeah, i dunno why they are talking about d3 when its not even the topic -_-

 

[Today]

Here are the vids in one of my posts here for Olimar for those whom are interested.
Post

 

[Today]

Okay! I finally have our matchup chart done. It's on the OP! It took me days but I finally got it!! I'll fill them in with color once we're done discussing each one! I hope it looks well.

 

[PantyRaider08]

Anyone have any advice against Meta Knight or a G&W beating a good meta as of lately. I know the matchups is bad and all they have to do is ftilt, shuttle out turtles/pans and not nado. I know how to punish; nados, shield the loop and up air, pan glides ,drop down off the side and neutral, and key off the side. IS there anything else I am missing? I still play G&W in singles and this is the hardest matchup if they know the matchup.

 

[A2ZOMG]

If you're close enough, you can aerial out of shield or D-smash out of shield against 1st hit D-smash. Timing for the last is VERY tight.

Play footsies with Jabs and D-tilts, and know your zoning options with F-airs and B-airs. Otherwise I dunno what else to say about this matchup.

 

[Today]

Patience. Don't always try and go for kills, bairs, nairs, etc because he can punish that. I learnt that just being calm and being patient works out well in this matchup. I play a top patient MK and he knows the matchup. So I'm just patient back. He's waiting for me to attack to punish. Mix it up a bit. Bait a little. Then go in when you think it's right. He/she may even get frustrated and stop being patient and a lot easier to deal with.

 

[PantyRaider08]

Thanks this helped. xD

 

[Alphicans]

Olimar! First off I'd like to say that olimar is ****ing annoying as ****. Misspaced bair? Pivot grab. Bad dair? pivot grab. Whiffed fair? pivot grab.... You get the point. Being precise is essential, there is no ****ing up here, because olimar gets a lot of stage control from a grab, which is realllllllllllly hard to deal with.

I have found that there is a distance away from olimar that you can be at where neither character can really do anything without getting punished. If any of you watch the games Today posted, there is a point in one of the matches (near the end) where they are both kinda of just standing there because they have reached that distance. That's the zone you want to be in when you're winning, and not when you're losing. Simple. This isn't an exclusive distance for this match-up, but it's probably the most notable because both characters will actually get ***** if they do something. Olimar will most likely take 50%+ from GaW if he gets in on him, and the same goes for GaW if olimar gets in on him.

Ok, now for how I play the match-up. I play a very tight game. You take what you get and you stand back for a bit. Don't always wait for him to make the first move, because at times that puts you at a risk of being under his godly stage control. Make him scared! Do it smartly too. Ideally you will want to provoke a roll, since olimar's roll is terrible. Punish it! Dash attack (my favorite form of punishment vs olimar), dthrow, or even uthrow (functions similarly as vs snake, except olimar can whistle through your follow ups), or any other aerial that will get there fast enough, but dash attack and a grab put olimar in the worst of positions. Personally, I think GaW deals a lot more damage when he gets in on olimar than when olimar gets in on GaW. Plus, olimar's stage control disappears, and if you manage to kill him it's even better, not just because he's now down a stock, but because you can set up exactly where you want to be vs him (this obviously applies to every character vs olimar), but olimar must pluck pikmin, and cannot really abuse his invincibility frames.

I used to get really frustrated with this match-up, because I felt like no matter what I did I'd just get grabbed out of my aerials, but it is really key to be precise. It's not like most other match-ups where you can wall with bairs or fairs, you have to be careful. Olimar has the luxury to spam moves at times, but I don't really think GaW ever does.

In essence, it's a battle of precision vs spam. Personally I think GaW beats olimar, like maybe 55-45, just because when olimar gets thrown off his horse he can't really get back on till his next stock, and even at that point it'll be hard. Then again, playing a near perfect game is really difficult, but with tools like dtilt and mash jab to prevent grabs, I think it's possible to keep olimar's stage control to a minimum.

 

[Today]

Okay, guys. I'm finalizing Olimar now.

Here is King Dedede: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=10353505 So join and discuss ideas and opinions!

 

[OpFor]

what happen to the old Game and Watch Match-Up Thread? o_O

 

[PK-ow!]

If you're close enough, you can aerial out of shield or D-smash out of shield against 1st hit D-smash. Timing for the last is VERY tight.

Any time you could do OoS Dsmash, you can do jump->Usmash for hitbox only two frames later.

I'm assuming by your remark that you mean he can shield the Dsmash if you're slow, but if so, he can't interrupt this Usmash, and Usmash is a lot better on shield, isn't it?

Something to keep in mind if you're close.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

Any time you could do OoS Dsmash, you can do jump->Usmash for hitbox only two frames later.

I'm assuming by your remark that you mean he can shield the Dsmash if you're slow, but if so, he can't interrupt this Usmash, and Usmash is a lot better on shield, isn't it?

Something to keep in mind if you're close.

U-smash doesn't have the range to punish it.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Is 4/6 the common opinion on the Diddy match-up? I think it's a lot worse than that.

 

[UTDZac]

It's really not that bad if you just learn how to control bananas. It takes a long time to get used to how to pick them up correctly, how to catch them in the air, and when to throw them/don't throw them.

The Diddy matchup isn't about Diddy as much as it's about bananas seriously.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

Learn to play with items and have fun with them.

Item techs are really fun IMO. :D

 

[derkapalooza]

It's really not that bad if you just learn how to control bananas. It takes a long time to get used to how to pick them up correctly, how to catch them in the air, and when to throw them/don't throw them.

The Diddy matchup isn't about Diddy as much as it's about bananas seriously.

dude no joke about how annoying those bananas are!

i had just about given up on using g&w vs diddy, until i started getting the hang of controlling the bananas better (and yes it does take a while to learn how to properly catch them). things are looking alot brighter now haha

 

[SFA Smiley]

Yeah I do pretty well against diddy, once you understand how to deal with nanas it's not too bad. Even at the highest level i think it's similar to snake where it's only hard when you mess up.

 

[Today]

Diddy is really easy. Upb is your best move. If you have a banana you can totally try and use it to your advantage, but tossing a banana back at a Diddy Kong is like handing it back to him some times. So just think carefully and handle the bananas correctly. KNOW when a Didddy is going to toss a banana and upb. Yeah, I think it's 60:40 at the most.

I'm going to start on new discussion. It seems like Diddy is at interest at the moment, but people were also curious on Ice Climbers as well. Icies also became a discussion at MLG. A lot of players find it hard whereas I find it kind of simple.

Intersts? Ideas?

 

[SFA Smiley]

Let's just do both 2 isn't far from one, we can still have focused discussion.

And I'm down with that. Day, gimme marth tips (hurr hurr pun)

 

[Mr.Jake and Skate]

G&Ws worst MUs are Marth,Snake,Metaknight,ICs,Falco for sure

 

[Today]

I think we should probably do one at a time since discussion gets kind of slow here, sadly.
I'm still out of town but once I get back I'll update the two current exports and the main thread.

@Jake, Icies and Falco isn't really that hard. I can see Icies because of chain grab. XP But it's really easily avoidable. Maybe it's just me, but for some odd reaosn every time I encounter an Ice Climber it's really simple and everything I do works. The key is to just not get grabbed. Lol. You can bair bait them and up b once you land. KNOW when they'll approach and dtilt. Dtilt is probably your best move in this matchup. It always works. I actually have a video I can upload when I get home.

But I'm thinking Ice Climbers next?

 

[kewl]

Do ICs. I got lots of IC exp. and I can help alot on that MU.

 

[Cinnanmonny]

I hate ICs
DO THEM