New Game and Watch Matchup Thread!! Currently: Ice Climbers

[Vinnie]

^What ICs have you beaten?

 

[kackamee]

1. Stand backwards
2. Pivot Grab
3. ???
4. Profit!

 

[Alphicans]

^What ICs have you beaten?

Honestly, none offline. However stages speak for themselves. We have a very high chance of winning on game 2 if we lose game 1, already putting the match-up above 70-30 or even 65-35. Game 1 can be played on a stage where IC's beat us 60:40, and their CP will probably be 60:40 as well.

 

[Vinnie]

Honestly, none offline.

k lol

However stages speak for themselves.

Stages are the only reason why I don't think ICs = our hardest matchup.

We have a very high chance of winning on game 2 if we lose game 1

true

Game 1 can be played on a stage where IC's beat us 60:40

nah, I think it's 7:3 on FD, and 65:35 on BF, SV, and YI. Unless you're talking about a 9 stage neutral thing.

and their CP will probably be 60:40 as well.

huh?

 

[Exdeath]

Stages are the only reason why I don't think ICs = our hardest matchup.

I was going to ask why you thought Marth was harder before I saw this haha.

 

[PantyRaider08]

Just my own opinion.

G&W's hardest matchups are Marth, Snake, ICs, and MK

Each character just completely shuts down G&W. Also if anyone is willing to share any new info. on these match ups it would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Alphicans]

I'd venture to swap out snake and replace him with T.link in that list.

 

[PantyRaider08]

Yeah Snake is manageable, but uptilt is a pain. I agree with you on TL, it's very hard to get in.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Honestly nothing Snake does individually is really a concern for G&W, even his gay U-tilt really is pretty easy for G&W to work around. Your biggest enemy in the Snake matchup is your own concentration limit. Pretty much everything Snake does to you will happen when you inevitably make the slightest slip up. I do mean it that inevitably Snake is going to punish you at some point, but it's pretty much always for something that you can adjust midmatch to prevent from happening easily a second time .

As long as you pay attention to Snake's grenades, approaching him is really, really easy. Pick wisely between fullhop F-airs, B-airs, and grabs when approaching Snake. Those options are all you need to successfully contend with Snake. Yes his range is gay, but your spacing game is still by far better than his. You should generally be hitting Snake a lot more than he should be hitting you.

I'd venture to put Falco in place of Snake. Then again it's true that nobody here besides Valdens (and I think Vinnie) knows the TL matchup, so idunno.

 

[Vinnie]

Only Marth and ICs **** g&w I think. Diddy is probably between 65:35 and 6:4, our 3rd worst matchup.

 

[Triforce Of Chozo]

Does anyone else hate fighting Wolf? Like, not that it's a bad MU or anything, but just a really stupid one.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Wolf is an okay matchup. I don't find it particularly unfun or anything, but your reactions have to be spot on in that matchup. Eating lasers for going on autopilot is kinda gay, and his F-smash/D-smash are also pretty gay if you let them catch you offguard. He's not exactly hard to edgeguard, but again, you have to know what you're doing in order to truly take advantage of it.

Vs Ike is technically a better matchup, but I'd call vs Ike a really stupid matchup just since you can really only play it one way. There's other characters that beat him that are more fun/less tedious to use for that particular matchup at any rate.

 

[Rizen]

Once they are separated, ALWAYS GO FOR NANA (well... unless you can down-tilt gimp popo for the stock or something, but otherwise, always go for Nana). Popo sucks at saving Nana against GaW, so we can just rack up the damage on her, and eventually get the kill.

1. Camp on the sides waiting for a mistake or opening.

4. Go all-out for Nana. Don't worry about attacking Popo much, as long as you don't stop the pressure on Nana.

Does Nana take damage? I thought only Popo did?

By camping does that mean projectiles like Chef or mainly safely spacing attacks and avoiding the opponent?

-------------------
I don't know the G&W/ICs MU but I can say:
Brinstar is always good.
Popo and Nana have 8 frames difference when they shield.
People can start CGs very fast. I've played Fino, don't be grabbed period; desynced or not has little relevance.
You've probably seen these, it's good to know:
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost....postcount=6810
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4pHZ...eature=recentf
(Those links don't work?) Set the (game cube) control pad to anything that can break grabs (jump). If you're grabbed or shield breaks, hold the control stick in any direction+mash the control pad+tap 'C' rapidly and hit any other buttons you can, you'll break free of grabs at least 3 times faster.

Even if you're CGed don't give up, players occasionally mess up. For G&W I'd quarter stick up and mash jump and 'B' to upB away.

Edit:
now the links work

 

[overgamer]

Yes, Nana has a hidden damage % bar, afaik.

 

[Dnyce]

Nana lags 6 frames behind popo, not 8. Also, k's mash break is fairly useless.

//namesearch

 

[SupaSairentoZ7℠]

Only Meta Knight and Marth give me the most trouble as Mr. Game & Watch. I never had trouble with the Ice Climbers though I will admit they can be tough. Not counting their infinite chain grabs.

 

[PantyRaider08]

I want to help revive the mu thread. I'm pretty sure we all have trouble with some mus and need outside help. I think we should start by discussing meta knight and working are way down the tier list. Everyone should contribute and help out. This will greatly benefit every GW main and help revive the boards.

 

[A2ZOMG]

I don't know how to play against the ICs...just in general, my spacing is awful against them.

I do think I am solid at the Marth matchup though. I got to friendly a few Marth players including Bardull at WGF, and it's a matchup that doesn't really bother me too much.

 

[Alphicans]

Play marth's that know it well. For the longest time I'd do well vs KillL0ck as gaw, but just recently he's figured out how to shut down every thing I do. Marth can put you into situations where you honestly have 0 options. And it happens pretty often. It sucks.

 

[A2ZOMG]

I'm not really seeing it, and even though it can be said that Bardull is moving on to Metaknight, he has had a lot of experience in the G&W Marth matchup. The worst part of the matchup is getting up from the ledge, but onstage it isn't unworkable. You do have to legitimately outplay Marth (extra points for finding opportunities for clutch powershields and SDIing DB) and it is CRUCIAL you know how to make the most out of your grab game against Marth, but I feel that on a move to move basis, it isn't impossible to beat Marth on stage given that he generally does not want to challenge your aerials directly. When Marth gets you on the ledge though it does get kinda ugly.

 

[Alphicans]

On the ledge and in the air is hellish.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Marth's air game on G&W I feel is extremely overrated. Its his ground game that gives G&W a lot more trouble. Marth players that bait and wall intelligently with D-tilt, DB, and Jab and get in your head with Up-B are the most dangerous. I feel that Marth users that are accustomed to spacing aerials generally do poorly against G&W, given that G&W's F-air trades very easily with Marth's for a favorable exchange.

I feel G&W is one of the better characters in the game at not getting outright dominated by Marth's juggles given you know how to mix up slowfall autocancel D-airs into your other options.

 

[Alphicans]

Mixing up dair fallspeeds won't matter. It's really easy to read on reaction, and counter covers air options really well.

 

[A2ZOMG]

I dunno, I don't think it's nearly as simple as that. The timing and spacing Marth or anyone needs to punish your landing for autocanceling a D-air as opposed to landing normally with D-air can be completely different.

Also, there is one trick I've been using a lot that I feel G&W users HIGHLY underestimate. B reversal Chef. It's not the fastest B reversal option, but regardless it's an option for escaping juggles, and given G&W's high aerial mobility, it's an option that should be used more.

 

[Alphicans]

He can punish you before you land.

 

[Triforce Of Chozo]

When Marth gets you in a juggle situation or on the ledge, the MU is just stupid. When he gets ahead, it's still pretty silly.
It's true that by simply outplaying Marth you should be able to easily beat him as long as you don't **** up. It's just that, like Alphicans said, once they figure out how to shut down G&W, the MU is the most ******** thing in the game (outside of a Snake that knows how to shut down G&W).
For the life of me, I still can't figure out how we're supposed to gimp Marth. Getting him offstage with dtilt isn't all that hard, but once he's out there it's hard to stop him from getting back.

 

[A2ZOMG]

I try to stagespike Marth with D-air. That's pretty easy if you ask me. And just in general (not necessarily vs Marth), people don't edgeguard with B-air enough. Ledgedrop B-air (and D-air!) for instance is incredibly underused.

Also "Snake" and "shutting down G&W" to me are contradictory statements. Snake doesn't shut down anyone except a few extremely bad characters. The only thing about decent to high level Snake players is you absolutely have to be playing in top performance to consistently beat them. It's a tiring and execution heavy matchup, but I'd say it's one of G&W's best matchups personally, and even in G&W's favor on a stage that's easy to aircamp on.

Vs Snake is one of those matchups where I either love the matchup given that it's so easy to actually control Snake, or I'm salty when I have to deal with the fact Snake punishes mistakes stupidly hard. Practically every time I get hit by Snake, let alone killed annoys me, given that basically all the time, every hit that Snake ever landed on me was completely avoidable.

 

[PantyRaider08]

Against Marth I try not to use too much bair. It's a lot more of using nair and keeping him in the air. I also think that pressuring him with Dtilt is really essential. If you ever read the up B out of shield and he free falls at a low percentage, judgment. If not then punish accordingly. Be careful about miss spacing your attacks and getting punished or tippered. Also learn how to SDI out of Marth's dancing blade. The mu is very tough if they actually know the mu, if not it won't be too bad.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Against Marth, I feel the three most important moves against him onstage are F-air, D-tilt, and grab. Offstage, D-air is extremely important.

 

[Triforce Of Chozo]

Like, how effective is dair offstage and when should I use it? Should I just go down and challenge DS with it?

 

[A2ZOMG]

D-air should cleanly beat Marth's Up-B, or in the extreme worst case scenario, it's a trade that's very significantly in G&W's favor both in terms of damage and knockback. So basically once Marth approaches the range where he can Up-B to the ledge, you should be trying to D-air him.

 

[Vinnie]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=297614

 

[Alphicans]

MK at -1? Whoa. That post is extremely late Vinnie. We needed that like 2 months ago. I think you'll be satisfied with the list we have though.

 

[A2ZOMG]

I can't help but feel in theory that MK is in fact the worst matchup along with the Ice Climbers, but then again smart implementation of D-throw is amazing against MK, as well as edgeguarding him.

 

[Mr. game and watch]

remember me? doubt it. anyway i maind GW then jiggz now IC. which is ironic cause i came in here to say im playin GW a little again and saw you guys discussing IC! perfect timing! i dont know what i would scale it as. but i think for you guys verse IC of course oil spill our down B and dont get to crazy with your dair because our uair prioritizes over it and all the ones like it (link TL yoshi etc) and grabs arent that important unless you kill nana because she can hit you out of your grabs or popo can if you grab nana. havent read through it all so this is a shot in the dark, want me to get mor IC mains in here?

 

[A2ZOMG]

This thread is mostly dead. Just saying.

 

[Mr. game and watch]

oh......mmk!

 

[PantyRaider08]

What do y'all think of the Fox mu? I need some help with this mu.

 

[Triforce Of Chozo]

What do y'all think of the Fox mu? I need some help with this mu.

Bair to dtilt
He gets gimped hard by sourspot fair.
If they laser camp, fill your bucket and get in on them. It doesn't kill until around 60, but it does do a hefty chunk of damage. Fox can't safely approach G&W, but G&W can safely approach Fox in addition to camping. Of course you can't outcamp Fox in this MU, but he doesn't really have anything to deal with our planking, so if he tries to ledge pressure you you can just laugh in his face with nair planking.
When juggling Fox, it's usually a general rule to aim above where you think he's going to be because he'll most likely try to shine stall. If he tries to approach/come down on you with dair, just shieldgrab that ****, then either throw him offstage or **** him with dthrow.
Fox's upsmash setups are even more predictable than ours, but regardless you will lose at least one stock at under 100%. Just look out for dsmash near the edges, you'll feel silly if you get semi-spiked and gimped by that ****.

 

[TheSaintKai]

Matchup is 80-20 ics, back air to back air inf is too easy to pull off.