GimR
GimR, Co-Founder of VGBootCamp
Sadly, this seems to be the caseNever try this on Snake or D3. They can perfect shield DK's footstool to side b because they have less grounded footstool lag than other characters.
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Sadly, this seems to be the caseNever try this on Snake or D3. They can perfect shield DK's footstool to side b because they have less grounded footstool lag than other characters.
Any good DeDeDe would be too busy infinite grabbing DK to be GFSC'd, so really were only missing out on one character. Yes, he is top tier, but thats better than a lot of other character's ATs.dude theres a difference between two middle or low tier characters and two TOP TIERS...thats a blow im sorry to say it but cmon
Ths guy presents a good argumentAny good DeDeDe would be too busy infinite grabbing DK to be GFSC'd, so really were only missing out on one character. Yes, he is top tier, but thats better than a lot of other character's ATs.
Lets take DeDeDe's chain grab for example. DeDeDe can infinite grab 5 characters, one of which is DK. DeDeDe can also chain grab 22 other characters, 26 if you count 4/5 of the characters he can infinite (Luigi can only be infinited). Finally, there are 12 characters that DeDeDe cannot chain grab in at all. In that list are Meta Knight, Falco, and Mr. G&W, all of which are top tier. Don't believe me? Check for yourself.
By your logic, DeDeDe has suffered an even bigger blow. Is DeDeDe's chain grab useless now? Heck no! It's still amazing, but he can't use it on every character. I'm sure you'll try to argue that because DeDeDe's chain grabs are easier they are more useful, but thats a terrible way to see a technique.
If something is possible, then it doesn't matter how hard it is to perform. Usefulness should not be determined by how easy a technique is. If the technique is useful, and there is a 100% chance of it being performed if you correctly input the button presses, then it is useful no matter how hard the button presses are. Yes, it is possible for someone to perform this technique with 100% accuracy. Speaking of which, DeDeDe's chain grab doesn't even have a 100% success rate because he could trip while dashing, but a jump out of a shield can never cause a trip.
Your biggest arguments have been:
1. This technique is too situational
2. It is hard to perform
and 3. It cannot be performed on 2 Top Tier Characters.
And it is the combination of these three attributes that make you decide this technique is useless. However, you have to admit that, during the situations this technique can be used, GFSC is the most useful technique to perform. Also, difficulty is not a factor because, as long as you know the button presses and are capable of performing them, then you will have a 100% success rate. Also, 2 Top Tier characters is a drop in the water compared to the "blows" other ATs have been dealt.
DeDeDe's chain grab, however, is harder to pull off due to the fact you can still fail even if you perform it correctly due to tripping. Also, it cannot be performed on 3 top tier characters. The only thing DeDeDe's chain grab has on DK's GFSC is that it can be used more frequently, but even then it shouldn't be used during every situation available (you would not continue to chain grab an opponent at 400%). Still, this technique is useful because it racks up more damage on enemies than if you didn't perform the grab at all, just like DK's GFSC is useful because it can help you punish an enemy that would normally be unpunishable (or if you could punish, you would only be able to do so with a quick move that wouldn't deal enough knockback to kill).
I hope this helped clear up our side of the argument to you, ClimbthatIce. I think it got a little "rambly" in the middle, but if you read it all hopefully you'll be able to understand why we disagree with your arguments. Situational or not, this technique can be used in an actual match, and it is useful to do so. Difficulty is not a factor; possible is still possible. Also, losing 2 Top Tier Characters is nothing compared to DeDeDe's Chain Grab, which loses 12 characters. If you come up with another reason why this technique is useless, please tell me, because I'd love to try and prove that reason wrong too.
USELESS STAMPAny good DeDeDe would be too busy infinite grabbing DK to be GFSC'd, so really were only missing out on one character. Yes, he is top tier, but thats better than a lot of other character's ATs.
Lets take DeDeDe's chain grab for example. DeDeDe can infinite grab 5 characters, one of which is DK. DeDeDe can also chain grab 22 other characters, 26 if you count 4/5 of the characters he can infinite (Luigi can only be infinited). Finally, there are 12 characters that DeDeDe cannot chain grab in at all. In that list are Meta Knight, Falco, and Mr. G&W, all of which are top tier. Don't believe me? Check for yourself.
By your logic, DeDeDe has suffered an even bigger blow. Is DeDeDe's chain grab useless now? Heck no! It's still amazing, but he can't use it on every character. I'm sure you'll try to argue that because DeDeDe's chain grabs are easier they are more useful, but thats a terrible way to see a technique.
If something is possible, then it doesn't matter how hard it is to perform. Usefulness should not be determined by how easy a technique is. If the technique is useful, and there is a 100% chance of it being performed if you correctly input the button presses, then it is useful no matter how hard the button presses are. Yes, it is possible for someone to perform this technique with 100% accuracy. Speaking of which, DeDeDe's chain grab doesn't even have a 100% success rate because he could trip while dashing, but a jump out of a shield can never cause a trip.
Your biggest arguments have been:
1. This technique is too situational
2. It is hard to perform
and 3. It cannot be performed on 2 Top Tier Characters.
And it is the combination of these three attributes that make you decide this technique is useless. However, you have to admit that, during the situations this technique can be used, GFSC is the most useful technique to perform. Also, difficulty is not a factor because, as long as you know the button presses and are capable of performing them, then you will have a 100% success rate. Also, 2 Top Tier characters is a drop in the water compared to the "blows" other ATs have been dealt.
DeDeDe's chain grab, however, is harder to pull off due to the fact you can still fail even if you perform it correctly due to tripping. Also, it cannot be performed on 3 top tier characters. The only thing DeDeDe's chain grab has on DK's GFSC is that it can be used more frequently, but even then it shouldn't be used during every situation available (you would not continue to chain grab an opponent at 400%). Still, this technique is useful because it racks up more damage on enemies than if you didn't perform the grab at all, just like DK's GFSC is useful because it can help you punish an enemy that would normally be unpunishable (or if you could punish, you would only be able to do so with a quick move that wouldn't deal enough knockback to kill).
I hope this helped clear up our side of the argument to you, ClimbthatIce. I think it got a little "rambly" in the middle, but if you read it all hopefully you'll be able to understand why we disagree with your arguments. Situational or not, this technique can be used in an actual match, and it is useful to do so. Difficulty is not a factor; possible is still possible. Also, losing 2 Top Tier Characters is nothing compared to DeDeDe's Chain Grab, which loses 12 characters. If you come up with another reason why this technique is useless, please tell me, because I'd love to try and prove that reason wrong too.
USELESS STAMP
LOL that fact that DDD will chain grab ur *** into submission MAKES IT EVEN LESS LIKELY TO HAPPEN against him...it is STILL a loss durr
I don't know what to say about this. I guess I'll use your words instead.POST A VIDEO
(not ur crap)
wtf...CAPS!...learn to disagree troll
I was messing with it one day myself (doing it on MK in training) and it really is hard to do consistently. I can't even see the possibility of somebody sitting still while shielding (or any form of standing still) long enough to begin the footstool much less, find a way to start it out right. Obviously nobody is going to let you just jump over to them and onto their heads, it's just not going to be that simple.lol this is actually really hard to do...it took me like 10 minutes just to do it once
Yeah, I jump with my index finger on X, so my thumb is free to press B. That's why it's pretty easy for me to do.I was messing with it one day myself (doing it on MK in training) and it really is hard to do consistently. .
Nah, ever since Melee, even before I started playing competitively, it felt comfortable so I just did it.Isn’t that uncomfortable?
Do you mean converting C-stick to B? If so you don't have to do that to B-stick. If you left hand's fast enough you can just press B and move left or right with the control pad.I would not give up Smash stick for B stick..just doesn't seem worth it.
Well, yes you can try to do it, but he doesn't get any lag from the footstool if he shields, so he might just roll away or something...on a sidenote: can you even do this when jumping from a shield?
yeah like i said before, if you dash danced a lot in melee, now is the time when that will actually be usefulDo you mean converting C-stick to B? If so you don't have to do that to B-stick. If you left hand's fast enough you can just press B and move left or right with the control pad.
lololollolol u said ike lololol wut a noob, hes like a noob character most people that suck at brawl use him, but dont get me wrong good people use him 2good. im not the one who brought tiers into the argument; God is my rock, did. Unfortunately, everyone here is infatuated with comparing the success of their combos against MK. My final argument is this: MK, Snake, and to great degree Ike, are the most broken characters in Brawl, and should be banned immediately, and that, apart from those three characters, tiers do not exist. Maybe you like the idea of being an underdog too much to dismiss tiers. As for myself, DK is just another character, and it is my experience that knowledge of techniques/combos and the ability to execute such is the ultimate determining factor in a match.
Back to the real argument. Your statement that this "combo" will work against "laggy attacks" is, frankly, bull****. Laggy attacks should be countered by combos, such as the one I mentioned in my first post (see the "Good combos" section for a more complete list) or smash attacks, considering DKs considerable power. This is even truer once you take into account MK's weight. DK can ko MK at very low percentages, and using comboing/smash-attacking as a counter to "laggy moves" is the MOST EFFECTIVE means to winning a match.
wut will u do if u are diagnolly off the stage, and by this i mean below the stage and further away from the stage, basically he is one of the only people without a diagnol recovery, and also u r the only one who thinks tiers dont exist also link can edge guard ike very well look up izaws vids, also saying this combo is not worth it is like sayin kirbys footstool jablock combo isnt worth it even though it isnt to had , good day sir, no more speaky, u loseLet me first address your first position on ike. You mention the speed of his moves. Any good ike player can fast-fall many of his moves, namely his fair and upair, so please, take ffing into consideration, because it is one of the most important techs in Brawl.
Secondly his recovery. HOW is it bad? you never specified...so ill specify how it is pretty good. His over-b recovery is relatively good, but his up-b recovery is what is what makes ike broken, in my opinion. It gives him super-armor AND creates a hitbox in the area where he is about to jump to. With that being said, he cannot be edgeguarded.
Lastly, the combo which i mentioned as an alternative to the topic combo is FAR MORE PRACTICAL and DEALS the SAME DAMAGE (46%)!!! Unfortunately, no one cares if anyone can actually DO IT. In a match, are you going to be thinking about this combo all the time, or actually FIGHTING? The fact is, focusing on this combo so much takes your mind off of defense and adaption, which are key to winning a match, that you lessen your ability to actually fight! Simply put, you could practice this extremely complicated bullcrap, or you could hone your defensive and offensive skills! in the long run, this combo simply does not pay off.
Wow, this is REALLY easy if you bstick! Is it worth setting the cstick to specials though..?