NEW EXTREMELY USEFUL Technique for DK (VID)

[GimR]

Never try this on Snake or D3. They can perfect shield DK's footstool to side b because they have less grounded footstool lag than other characters.

Sadly, this seems to be the case

 

[ClimbthatIce]

wow doesnt work against 2 top tier...useless stamp!

 

[Jingo_Joe]

Losing out on two characters is disappointing, but its still no where near "useless" since there are so many other characters in this game.

 

[OmegaXF]

Potential......

 

[ClimbthatIce]

dude theres a difference between two middle or low tier characters and two TOP TIERS...thats a blow im sorry to say it but cmon

 

[Jingo_Joe]

dude theres a difference between two middle or low tier characters and two TOP TIERS...thats a blow im sorry to say it but cmon

Any good DeDeDe would be too busy infinite grabbing DK to be GFSC'd, so really were only missing out on one character. Yes, he is top tier, but thats better than a lot of other character's ATs.

Lets take DeDeDe's chain grab for example. DeDeDe can infinite grab 5 characters, one of which is DK. DeDeDe can also chain grab 22 other characters, 26 if you count 4/5 of the characters he can infinite (Luigi can only be infinited). Finally, there are 12 characters that DeDeDe cannot chain grab in at all. In that list are Meta Knight, Falco, and Mr. G&W, all of which are top tier. Don't believe me? Check for yourself.

By your logic, DeDeDe has suffered an even bigger blow. Is DeDeDe's chain grab useless now? Heck no! It's still amazing, but he can't use it on every character. I'm sure you'll try to argue that because DeDeDe's chain grabs are easier they are more useful, but thats a terrible way to see a technique.

If something is possible, then it doesn't matter how hard it is to perform. Usefulness should not be determined by how easy a technique is. If the technique is useful, and there is a 100% chance of it being performed if you correctly input the button presses, then it is useful no matter how hard the button presses are. Yes, it is possible for someone to perform this technique with 100% accuracy. Speaking of which, DeDeDe's chain grab doesn't even have a 100% success rate because he could trip while dashing, but a jump out of a shield can never cause a trip.



Your biggest arguments have been:

1. This technique is too situational
2. It is hard to perform
and 3. It cannot be performed on 2 Top Tier Characters.

And it is the combination of these three attributes that make you decide this technique is useless. However, you have to admit that, during the situations this technique can be used, GFSC is the most useful technique to perform. Also, difficulty is not a factor because, as long as you know the button presses and are capable of performing them, then you will have a 100% success rate. Also, 2 Top Tier characters is a drop in the water compared to the "blows" other ATs have been dealt.

DeDeDe's chain grab, however, is harder to pull off due to the fact you can still fail even if you perform it correctly due to tripping. Also, it cannot be performed on 3 top tier characters. The only thing DeDeDe's chain grab has on DK's GFSC is that it can be used more frequently, but even then it shouldn't be used during every situation available (you would not continue to chain grab an opponent at 400%). Still, this technique is useful because it racks up more damage on enemies than if you didn't perform the grab at all, just like DK's GFSC is useful because it can help you punish an enemy that would normally be unpunishable (or if you could punish, you would only be able to do so with a quick move that wouldn't deal enough knockback to kill).


I hope this helped clear up our side of the argument to you, ClimbthatIce. I think it got a little "rambly" in the middle, but if you read it all hopefully you'll be able to understand why we disagree with your arguments. Situational or not, this technique can be used in an actual match, and it is useful to do so. Difficulty is not a factor; possible is still possible. Also, losing 2 Top Tier Characters is nothing compared to DeDeDe's Chain Grab, which loses 12 characters. If you come up with another reason why this technique is useless, please tell me, because I'd love to try and prove that reason wrong too.

 

[GimR]

Any good DeDeDe would be too busy infinite grabbing DK to be GFSC'd, so really were only missing out on one character. Yes, he is top tier, but thats better than a lot of other character's ATs.

Lets take DeDeDe's chain grab for example. DeDeDe can infinite grab 5 characters, one of which is DK. DeDeDe can also chain grab 22 other characters, 26 if you count 4/5 of the characters he can infinite (Luigi can only be infinited). Finally, there are 12 characters that DeDeDe cannot chain grab in at all. In that list are Meta Knight, Falco, and Mr. G&W, all of which are top tier. Don't believe me? Check for yourself.

By your logic, DeDeDe has suffered an even bigger blow. Is DeDeDe's chain grab useless now? Heck no! It's still amazing, but he can't use it on every character. I'm sure you'll try to argue that because DeDeDe's chain grabs are easier they are more useful, but thats a terrible way to see a technique.

If something is possible, then it doesn't matter how hard it is to perform. Usefulness should not be determined by how easy a technique is. If the technique is useful, and there is a 100% chance of it being performed if you correctly input the button presses, then it is useful no matter how hard the button presses are. Yes, it is possible for someone to perform this technique with 100% accuracy. Speaking of which, DeDeDe's chain grab doesn't even have a 100% success rate because he could trip while dashing, but a jump out of a shield can never cause a trip.



Your biggest arguments have been:

1. This technique is too situational
2. It is hard to perform
and 3. It cannot be performed on 2 Top Tier Characters.

And it is the combination of these three attributes that make you decide this technique is useless. However, you have to admit that, during the situations this technique can be used, GFSC is the most useful technique to perform. Also, difficulty is not a factor because, as long as you know the button presses and are capable of performing them, then you will have a 100% success rate. Also, 2 Top Tier characters is a drop in the water compared to the "blows" other ATs have been dealt.

DeDeDe's chain grab, however, is harder to pull off due to the fact you can still fail even if you perform it correctly due to tripping. Also, it cannot be performed on 3 top tier characters. The only thing DeDeDe's chain grab has on DK's GFSC is that it can be used more frequently, but even then it shouldn't be used during every situation available (you would not continue to chain grab an opponent at 400%). Still, this technique is useful because it racks up more damage on enemies than if you didn't perform the grab at all, just like DK's GFSC is useful because it can help you punish an enemy that would normally be unpunishable (or if you could punish, you would only be able to do so with a quick move that wouldn't deal enough knockback to kill).


I hope this helped clear up our side of the argument to you, ClimbthatIce. I think it got a little "rambly" in the middle, but if you read it all hopefully you'll be able to understand why we disagree with your arguments. Situational or not, this technique can be used in an actual match, and it is useful to do so. Difficulty is not a factor; possible is still possible. Also, losing 2 Top Tier Characters is nothing compared to DeDeDe's Chain Grab, which loses 12 characters. If you come up with another reason why this technique is useless, please tell me, because I'd love to try and prove that reason wrong too.

Ths guy presents a good argument

 

[Dekar173]

See, the issue with the people being argued against who are saying it's useless is

"SMASH N00B"

they think that because they have that title, they need to put as little effort/intelligent thought into a post as possible /= stop wasting your breath explaining to them why they're bad, and just smoke those kids in tourneys instead! :D

 

[ClimbthatIce]

Any good DeDeDe would be too busy infinite grabbing DK to be GFSC'd, so really were only missing out on one character. Yes, he is top tier, but thats better than a lot of other character's ATs.

Lets take DeDeDe's chain grab for example. DeDeDe can infinite grab 5 characters, one of which is DK. DeDeDe can also chain grab 22 other characters, 26 if you count 4/5 of the characters he can infinite (Luigi can only be infinited). Finally, there are 12 characters that DeDeDe cannot chain grab in at all. In that list are Meta Knight, Falco, and Mr. G&W, all of which are top tier. Don't believe me? Check for yourself.

By your logic, DeDeDe has suffered an even bigger blow. Is DeDeDe's chain grab useless now? Heck no! It's still amazing, but he can't use it on every character. I'm sure you'll try to argue that because DeDeDe's chain grabs are easier they are more useful, but thats a terrible way to see a technique.

If something is possible, then it doesn't matter how hard it is to perform. Usefulness should not be determined by how easy a technique is. If the technique is useful, and there is a 100% chance of it being performed if you correctly input the button presses, then it is useful no matter how hard the button presses are. Yes, it is possible for someone to perform this technique with 100% accuracy. Speaking of which, DeDeDe's chain grab doesn't even have a 100% success rate because he could trip while dashing, but a jump out of a shield can never cause a trip.



Your biggest arguments have been:

1. This technique is too situational
2. It is hard to perform
and 3. It cannot be performed on 2 Top Tier Characters.

And it is the combination of these three attributes that make you decide this technique is useless. However, you have to admit that, during the situations this technique can be used, GFSC is the most useful technique to perform. Also, difficulty is not a factor because, as long as you know the button presses and are capable of performing them, then you will have a 100% success rate. Also, 2 Top Tier characters is a drop in the water compared to the "blows" other ATs have been dealt.

DeDeDe's chain grab, however, is harder to pull off due to the fact you can still fail even if you perform it correctly due to tripping. Also, it cannot be performed on 3 top tier characters. The only thing DeDeDe's chain grab has on DK's GFSC is that it can be used more frequently, but even then it shouldn't be used during every situation available (you would not continue to chain grab an opponent at 400%). Still, this technique is useful because it racks up more damage on enemies than if you didn't perform the grab at all, just like DK's GFSC is useful because it can help you punish an enemy that would normally be unpunishable (or if you could punish, you would only be able to do so with a quick move that wouldn't deal enough knockback to kill).


I hope this helped clear up our side of the argument to you, ClimbthatIce. I think it got a little "rambly" in the middle, but if you read it all hopefully you'll be able to understand why we disagree with your arguments. Situational or not, this technique can be used in an actual match, and it is useful to do so. Difficulty is not a factor; possible is still possible. Also, losing 2 Top Tier Characters is nothing compared to DeDeDe's Chain Grab, which loses 12 characters. If you come up with another reason why this technique is useless, please tell me, because I'd love to try and prove that reason wrong too.

USELESS STAMP

LOL that fact that DDD will chain grab ur *** into submission MAKES IT EVEN LESS LIKELY TO HAPPEN against him...it is STILL a loss durr

 

[ClimbthatIce]

POST A VIDEO

(not ur crap)

 

[Jingo_Joe]

USELESS STAMP

LOL that fact that DDD will chain grab ur *** into submission MAKES IT EVEN LESS LIKELY TO HAPPEN against him...it is STILL a loss durr

POST A VIDEO

(not ur crap)

I don't know what to say about this. I guess I'll use your words instead.

wtf...CAPS!...learn to disagree troll

Videos of DK's GFSC will come later, especially from me when I get to record some offline matches. Please note that this isn't a promise. I honestly don't know when I'll get to play someone offline again. In addition to that, I have to send a replay of the match to a person who will eventually upload it on YouTube because I lack the equipment myself. In other words, it could take a while, but I trust that you'll see at least a few DKs pull this out from time to time anyways.

 

[The Pope]

This is a great discovery and I definitely think this will be a great addition to DK's metagame. I admit that it's a very hard AT to do but with practice, this should become second nature, like Melee Fox's waveshine, which was also a very difficult thing to do.

I say if you can do it when the situation calls for it, do it. It's obviously the best course of action to take.

 

[i1337]

lol this is actually really hard to do...it took me like 10 minutes just to do it once

 

[ClimbthatIce]

Jingle Joe likes it up the arse

 

[Revven]

lol this is actually really hard to do...it took me like 10 minutes just to do it once

I was messing with it one day myself (doing it on MK in training) and it really is hard to do consistently. I can't even see the possibility of somebody sitting still while shielding (or any form of standing still) long enough to begin the footstool much less, find a way to start it out right. Obviously nobody is going to let you just jump over to them and onto their heads, it's just not going to be that simple.

I'm really curious about how you would do this in a match, because I'm honestly stumped.

All I'm saying is, it's hard to even perform, once you even have it down are you going to be able to do it on a human? That's the real question for me, even with a few of the clips shown in the first video of this topic, I'd still like to see a full match with this technique done at least once. Just to kill my curiosity.

It looks really cool though if it can be done consistently.

 

[GimR]

I was messing with it one day myself (doing it on MK in training) and it really is hard to do consistently. .

Yeah, I jump with my index finger on X, so my thumb is free to press B. That's why it's pretty easy for me to do.

 

[Nokonoko]

Isn’t that uncomfortable?

For what it’s worth, you can B-stick this really easily …

 

[GimR]

Isn’t that uncomfortable?

Nah, ever since Melee, even before I started playing competitively, it felt comfortable so I just did it.

 

[CBK]

I would not give up Smash stick for B stick..just doesn't seem worth it.

 

[GimR]

I would not give up Smash stick for B stick..just doesn't seem worth it.

Do you mean converting C-stick to B? If so you don't have to do that to B-stick. If you left hand's fast enough you can just press B and move left or right with the control pad.

 

[i1337]

O_o

i never knew that...lol

 

[Yomi-no-Kuni]

thanks for this godismyrock :D
i tried it for a few minutes, got it down 4 times...
guess i got some practicing to do :/

 

[Veggi]

Somehow foot-stooling with Peach is so much easier than DK. This is pretty useful when it works, but it's hard to use consistently.

I will get it down though. >: )

 

[Yomi-no-Kuni]

i just did something randomly today, and thought i`d share it!
i sh baired an wario, and was really close to him
after the bair i FSd from his shieled... i didnt excpect this, so i couldnt try to pull of a ForwardB, but if it would have worked, i would`ve given him a shieldbreak
i think this works fairly well, if you start the sh bair close to your opponent, and he shields

feel free to try out some, and post your experience...

on a sidenote: can you even do this when jumping from a shield?

 

[Luigi player]

on a sidenote: can you even do this when jumping from a shield?

Well, yes you can try to do it, but he doesn't get any lag from the footstool if he shields, so he might just roll away or something...

 

[Yomi-no-Kuni]

ok.. ****
but its still worth a try i guess

 

[Staco]

out of shield it could be really usefull
for some characters its like pivot sliding with link (if you know pivot sliding)
and I think you can use it ingame, but you should really use it only in special situations

edit:
you can make tornado out of it, with mk
and dair with snake

 

[Jingo_Joe]

I'm so dissapointed! I actually got this off ONLINE against a Wario, beat him, and did it in enough time for a replay. Unfortunately, my Wii is full so I had no room for a replay (I had around 465 replays). Oh well, maybe next time I can get a video to show you guys.

 

[Nokonoko]

Time to splurge on an SD card …

I need to practise this some more.

 

[Lizard]

Gonna Use this with both my Lucas and DK! gotta share it with a kirby friend too! that footstool to hammer is SEXY!

 

[Donkey Bong]

Do you mean converting C-stick to B? If so you don't have to do that to B-stick. If you left hand's fast enough you can just press B and move left or right with the control pad.

yeah like i said before, if you dash danced a lot in melee, now is the time when that will actually be useful

 

[capeman]

god-is-my-rock
you rock
haha
anyways..
i definitly recommend bsticking control setup for this combo...it makes it ALOT easier
just foostool then bstick in the OTHER way and it will come out the same as was shown in the vid.
this might be listed in the thread but sorry i didnt feel like searching the whole thread to find bsticking
good find

 

[KiraNumber7]

good. im not the one who brought tiers into the argument; God is my rock, did. Unfortunately, everyone here is infatuated with comparing the success of their combos against MK. My final argument is this: MK, Snake, and to great degree Ike, are the most broken characters in Brawl, and should be banned immediately, and that, apart from those three characters, tiers do not exist. Maybe you like the idea of being an underdog too much to dismiss tiers. As for myself, DK is just another character, and it is my experience that knowledge of techniques/combos and the ability to execute such is the ultimate determining factor in a match.

Back to the real argument. Your statement that this "combo" will work against "laggy attacks" is, frankly, bull****. Laggy attacks should be countered by combos, such as the one I mentioned in my first post (see the "Good combos" section for a more complete list) or smash attacks, considering DKs considerable power. This is even truer once you take into account MK's weight. DK can ko MK at very low percentages, and using comboing/smash-attacking as a counter to "laggy moves" is the MOST EFFECTIVE means to winning a match.

lololollolol u said ike lololol wut a noob, hes like a noob character most people that suck at brawl use him, but dont get me wrong good people use him 2

 

[KiraNumber7]

Let me first address your first position on ike. You mention the speed of his moves. Any good ike player can fast-fall many of his moves, namely his fair and upair, so please, take ffing into consideration, because it is one of the most important techs in Brawl.

Secondly his recovery. HOW is it bad? you never specified...so ill specify how it is pretty good. His over-b recovery is relatively good, but his up-b recovery is what is what makes ike broken, in my opinion. It gives him super-armor AND creates a hitbox in the area where he is about to jump to. With that being said, he cannot be edgeguarded.

Lastly, the combo which i mentioned as an alternative to the topic combo is FAR MORE PRACTICAL and DEALS the SAME DAMAGE (46%)!!! Unfortunately, no one cares if anyone can actually DO IT. In a match, are you going to be thinking about this combo all the time, or actually FIGHTING? The fact is, focusing on this combo so much takes your mind off of defense and adaption, which are key to winning a match, that you lessen your ability to actually fight! Simply put, you could practice this extremely complicated bullcrap, or you could hone your defensive and offensive skills! in the long run, this combo simply does not pay off.

wut will u do if u are diagnolly off the stage, and by this i mean below the stage and further away from the stage, basically he is one of the only people without a diagnol recovery, and also u r the only one who thinks tiers dont exist also link can edge guard ike very well look up izaws vids, also saying this combo is not worth it is like sayin kirbys footstool jablock combo isnt worth it even though it isnt to had , good day sir, no more speaky, u lose

 

[Veggi]

Be careful not to make people mad.

Also, I'm going to eat your Gonzo Combo for breakfast when I get this tech down lol.

 

[KiraNumber7]

well im gonna gonzo combo ur tec when i get this....uhhhh SHADUP!!!!

 

[Luigi player]

Wow, this is REALLY easy if you bstick! Is it worth setting the cstick to specials though..?

 

[Ripple]

Wow, this is REALLY easy if you bstick! Is it worth setting the cstick to specials though..?

it could be, you will survive longer with normal c stick because it is easy to smash a direction on the c stick while still DI ing and momentum stall

 

[Flamingo]

Why not B-Stick DK? Pretty much all of his smashes are slow anyways, might as well take the time to hit up+A... etc.

 

[Donkey Bong]

i think you sacrifice SDI if you put your Cstick to specials

also @ "most broken character list:" meta, snake and.... ike? LOLOLOLOLOL

i stopped reading the post at that point.