New Characters for Project M Discussion Thread (Voting Closed)

[Starcutter]

Actually, I did.
As did someone before me.
DON'T BE SO DARN PRESUMPTUOUS

Oh I appologize, I thought I came up with the idea. Oh well...

This changes nothing, he's still my most wanted in project M.

 

[red9rd]

It might just be me...

but miis piss me the **** off

 

[Xinc]

It might just be me...

but miis piss me the **** off

I think I'd be pretty irritated too, at least at first.

 

[Malion]

It might just be me...

but miis piss me the **** off

me like mii but only when they are me.

 

[trojanpooh]

It might just be me...

but miis piss me the **** off

Pre Brawl I'd agree with you, but Miis have been in so many games now, even being the main character of some good ones (Nintendo Land and the Street Pass Games come to mind) that they have some of the biggest potential of any character for an awesome moveset. They're actually one of my most wanted newcomers for Smash 4.

 

[Starcutter]

As long as miis don't have those horrible voices from Mario kart wii it would't be that bad

 

[Anti Guy]

If the poll system here really is that crappy, I do understand not wanting to use it. But don't change the rules you've established after the fact, that really is what I found annoying about it.

If your counting all these names I apologize for implying they aren't real votes.

You mean:

1. Not allowing people to change their +1 votes, which hasn't really happened anyways?
2. Requiring new people to give reasons for their downvotes, which again didn't change much?

It's an unofficial poll, not a study. It isn't perfect, but I try to adjust it when it needs fixing. If there was anything that seriously would change things, then I would/should start a new one, but it hasn't come to that given how small the changes were.

 

[l3thargy]

You mean:

1. Not allowing people to change their +1 votes, which hasn't really happened anyways?
2. Requiring new people to give reasons for their downvotes, which again didn't change much?

It's an unofficial poll, not a study. It isn't perfect, but I try to adjust it when it needs fixing. If there was anything that seriously would change things, then I would/should start a new one, but it hasn't come to that given how small the changes were.

I was wondering wouldn't it be a better idea for you to make another thread just for voting no discussion involved and have this one or create another one just for discussion? that should make things easier then going through like 60+ pages to count up all the tallies would it not?

 

[Girth94]

He doesn't have any huge range. All his normal attacks are... normal attacks. Just imagine Mario fighting, but you make his arms and legs transparent. They could make it so that he has a little longer reach, kinda like less than swordslength, but proportion-wise, he's not Dhalsim. His attacks where he does stretch out are his projectile attacks, where he throws out his head. So yeah, not Olimar-like or anything.

Dude, that sounds exactly like Olimar with transparent (read: no hurt boxes) limbs. At best, it's Mario with a bit more range. I'm not inspired.

Also, isn't using your own body part as a "projectile" simply a long-range attack?. In order for a move to qualify as a projectile, wouldn't it have to generate an article? The move where Sakupon's head is thrown out sounds similar in function to Ivysaur's Up-B (except without the 45 degree angle), and I wouldn't consider that a projectile at all. Link's arrows and boomerang, Lucario's aura sphere, and Lucas's PK freeze are projectiles.

Anyway, you clearly like this character. Nothing I say's gonna change your mind.

 

[Anti Guy]

I was wondering wouldn't it be a better idea for you to make another thread just for voting no discussion involved and have this one or create another one just for discussion? that should make things easier then going through like 60+ pages to count up all the tallies would it not?

Nah it's fine. I've been tallying the votes as they've been coming in now, so no epic page-by-page tedium.

Dude, that sounds exactly like Olimar with transparent (read: no hurt boxes) limbs. At best, it's Mario with a bit more range. I'm not inspired.

Also, isn't using your own body part as a "projectile" simply a long-range attack?. In order for a move to qualify as a projectile, wouldn't it have to generate an article? The move where Sakupon's head is thrown out sounds similar in function to Ivysaur's Up-B (except without the 45 degree angle), and I wouldn't consider that a projectile at all. Link's arrows and boomerang, Lucario's aura sphere, and Lucas's PK freeze are projectiles.


Anyway, you clearly like this character. Nothing I say's gonna change your mind.

I'm not understanding your Olimar comparison here. He has no Pikmin. He doesn't throw things out with no hurtboxes. Olimar himself only attacks with his head. :\

He has two moves that are functionally long-range:

Tondekee - This is actually a projectile. He throws a copy of his head out. Separate article. No hurtbox. That's a projectile.

Konnan Irahen - He throws his head out for a shorter distance and pulls it back. This isn't a projectile, and would have a hurtbox.



Outside of konnan irahen and konnan irahen only, there is no hurtbox issue. And outside of special moves, most regular attacks are going to be just that, regular attacks. Punches and kicks. Look at Samus, she mainly punches and kicks. Captain Falcon punches and kicks.

I'm just trying to clarify it, because your downvote is based off a misconception.

 

[mikeyn1gm]

Dude, that sounds exactly like Olimar with transparent (read: no hurt boxes) limbs. At best, it's Mario with a bit more range. I'm not inspired.

Also, isn't using your own body part as a "projectile" simply a long-range attack?. In order for a move to qualify as a projectile, wouldn't it have to generate an article? The move where Sakupon's head is thrown out sounds similar in function to Ivysaur's Up-B (except without the 45 degree angle), and I wouldn't consider that a projectile at all. Link's arrows and boomerang, Lucario's aura sphere, and Lucas's PK freeze are projectiles.

Anyway, you clearly like this character. Nothing I say's gonna change your mind.

I saw a few Skapon fights............That dude's pretty Dhalsim lol. Waaay more reach then Rayman. has a nice and funny personality too with his fighting (dancing lol). Although I honestly may sound harsh in my downvote, I still don't think the character will be more appealing/desired than the others for the limited space in PM.

As far as new Series rep goes........It seems to be going towards the favor of "Golden Sun" and "Sin & Punishment" which makes sense and I predicted it too. I'm surprised to not see much with "Custom Robo" as I thought that would naturally be the 3rd

 

[mikeyn1gm]

*Post Deleted*

sorry, still rusty with this forum

 

[Generically Epic]

As long as miis don't have those horrible voices from Mario kart wii it would't be that bad

actually, I will give you that...
But still, I find that Miis are important to nintendo and should not be ignored. There's so much to use.

 

[mikeyn1gm]

actually, I will give you that...
But still, I find that Miis are important to nintendo and should not be ignored. There's so much to use.

I know they are not going to be used for PM......but if they think about it for SSB4....I hope its nothing further then an Assist Trophy or Stage Cameo

 

[EdgeTheLucas]

Does anyone know how to search for your own posts within a single thread? I want to make a tiny update to my votes but I think this knowledge would make it easier. Thanks in advance if anyone answers me.

 

[shinhed-echi]

The only ONLY downvote from me would be -Black Shadow / Ganondorf.

I would give Ganondorf a 1/2 vote if I could just vote for the "stance change" mechanic to be given to him as well.

Now with Samus being able to switch between Plasma and Ice beams, there's no reason why Ganondorf couldn't gain some new properties/range/moves from this NEW mechanic.. Ergo, Black Shadow is not needed to be shoehorned into the game now just to make Ganon look better.


As for Skapon.

Just because he has a LONG reach, it doesn't mean it can't be easily balanced out in other areas. Thickness of hitboxes, actual power of the moves, afterlag, etc.

 

[PsionicSabreur]

So, I would like to post a more thorough version of my Masked Man moveset (mMMm for short) from a ways back. Feel free to take a gander at any of these three sections.

I tried to visualize several possibilites for certain moves, so just about every moveslot listed has several potential moves listed under it. I also tried to keep in mind that the Masked Man has a big advantage in borrowed animations and designs that really help him out as a candidate. All the same, I did mention some original ideas, because it would certainly be nice to make him as unique as possible.

Warning, physics and character attributes abound:

Spoiler

Here's my old post on a possible moveset, I've edited it a little recently, so any new ideas should be underlined and bolded. Astounding.

Spoiler

Now to fill out the rest of his moves (normals and aerials):

Spoiler

So yeah. Not really a singular moveset but here it is.

tl;dr: Moveset Potential

Anybody who would care to make suggestions or critiques is certainly welcome to do so.

 

[GunBuster]

this is starting to get a little dumb guys. i know that you are all enjoying your "outside the box" thinking right now, but can we please have a bit of rational speculation now and then?

let's consider the following points.

1. the PMBR are now limited to 5 new characters with the clone engine.
2. whether or not they choose to use all 5 yet is still not decided.
3. additional 3rd party characters have been all but completely ruled out, so no more sonic suggestions, PLEASE.
4. the ability to cut any corners while making any of them with pre-existing materials will most likely be valued.
5. "clone" characters will probably be what are produced, so let's consider which of the existing franchises actually warrant another rep.

rationally, i think that the following series don't need any more reps:
-any game series' that have more than 3 reps already - zelda (5), pokemon (7!), mario (6 - including wario and yoshi, that is. i think they warrant inclusion as they are still rather lodged in the mario games, although to an admittedly lesser extent with wario)

-any game series that has few to no other characters worth bringing over (kirby, ice climbers)

-any game series that has other characters not already present in brawl in some way that additionally DON'T have a chance of appearing in smash 4 (again kirby, kid icarus )

-gimmick/fanservice/joke/whatever you want to call them characters, that aren't actually a series. (rob, mr game and watch)

so we are left with:
Fzero
Metroid
Donkey Kong (the inclusion of diddy kong in br awl warrants separation from mario, in my opinion)
Mother
Pikmin
Starfox
Fire Emblem


F-zero is a must, no questions. hell, at this point i'd admit black shadow inheriting SOME of ganon's moves would be an interesting make - but ganon has made some of the moves his own, and it wouldn't be the same to completely strip him of his notfalcon moveset.

metroid - another high priority. if ridley can be scaled right, i'm all for it - but i have to admit i'd rather see what they could do with dark samus.

mother, donkey kong and pikmin have had minimal/no discussion in this thread, so to be honest i don't see much point in expanding their rosters... pikmin in particular. mother is also rather niche for nintendo, and donkey kong might have more reps in smash 4.

star fox - "NOT ANOTHER LANDMASTER" is all I'm hearing concerning this, and i'm pretty sure there's been no discussion outside of krystal in this thread. and we've seen how popular she's been...

fire emblem - the big one. this year the release of FE: Awakening has really pushed the franchise into the spotlight and saved it from being a binned IP, and has seen a rather large surge of popularity (enough for Figma/amiami to release a goddamn poly statue of the darkmage Tharja). based on this alone, i believe it's more than deserving of another slot on the clone engine. we all know how supportive I've been of the idea of Lyndis joining the fight (sword complainees, take a number), as i believe she offers more than enough to separate herself from the other FE lords present in the game - even moreso with the revealing of samus's ammo/moveset altering through her side taunt. There has been more than enough discussion in this thread alone of the possibility (it is also still purely baffling that the first FE game released in the west doesn't have anything outside of an assist trophy for an in-game rep). having existing materials for her in game helps too. sure, FE as a franchise still isn't anywhere near the mass of the three nintendo heavyweights mario, pokemon and zelda, but it has regained a considerable amount of lost ground over the years and then some. (which i believe started with FE10... michiah, *cough cough*)

so Fzero, metroid, and fire emblem are the main contendors. golden sun's isaac has been another, while we have one more series.

some food for thought.

 

[Fortress]

>No more characters from a series with three or more characters
>Wants another spacie
>Wants more Fire Emblem

>No characters from a series with no other worthwhile mentions
>Wants another character from Pikmin

Those are the only two things I really disagree with.

And, besides, since when was Fire Emblem ever in any danger of being a 'binned IP'? Hasn't it been around since the ****ing stone age? It even had its own short-lived manga and anime, for Ashera's sake.

 

[trojanpooh]

He's actually right about that bit. Fire Emblem hasn't been selling well recently and Awakening was the teams last chance. It was in an Iwata Asks or something.

 

[GunBuster]

>No more characters from a series with three or more characters
>Wants another spacie
>Wants more Fire Emblem

>No characters from a series with no other worthwhile mentions
>Wants another character from Pikmin

Those are the only two things I really disagree with.

And, besides, since when was Fire Emblem ever in any danger of being a 'binned IP'? Hasn't it been around since the ****ing stone age? It even had its own short-lived manga and anime, for Ashera's sake.

no, i was pointing out while starfox is eligeble with the perameters i set, it's a pretty unpopular descision. FE is the opposite, however.

who would you have from pikmin? louie? the president? they'd have to function exactly like olimar, and there would be little to no room for unique characteristics here.

fire emblem awakening was going to be the last in the series if it preformed poorly like a number of it's predecessors.

http://www.siliconera.com/2013/05/25/fire-emblem-awakening-was-almost-the-last-game-in-the-series/

 

[PsionicSabreur]

this is starting to get a little dumb guys. i know that you are all enjoying your "outside the box" thinking right now, but can we please have a bit of rational speculation now and then?

let's consider the following points.

1. the PMBR are now limited to 5 new characters with the clone engine.
2. whether or not they choose to use all 5 yet is still not decided.
3. additional 3rd party characters have been all but completely ruled out, so no more sonic suggestions, PLEASE.
4. the ability to cut any corners while making any of them with pre-existing materials will most likely be valued.
5. "clone" characters will probably be what are produced, so let's consider which of the existing franchises actually warrant another rep.

rationally, i think that the following series don't need any more reps:
-any game series' that have more than 3 reps already - zelda (5), pokemon (7!), mario (6 - including wario and yoshi, that is. i think they warrant inclusion as they are still rather lodged in the mario games, although to an admittedly lesser extent with wario)
-any game series that has few to no other characters worth bringing over (kirby, ice climbers)


F-zero is a must, no questions. hell, at this point i'd admit black shadow inheriting SOME of ganon's moves would be an interesting make - but ganon has made some of the moves his own, and it wouldn't be the same to completely strip him of his notfalcon moveset.

metroid - another high priority. if ridley can be scaled right, i'm all for it - but i have to admit i'd rather see what they could do with dark samus.

I take it you're calling out the moveset ideas as "dumb," and "irrational," but in all honesty they're intended for discussion and to get a better idea of what a candidate could be capable of, and whether they would be a good fit in a competitive metagame.
Just about every bit of your "rational speculation" is about representation, something that has been disagreed upon by numerous people in this thread. This is especially true given that a lot of people don't want a character that is a forced clone of another.

Labeling these other arguments as irrational is not getting you anywhere.

mother, donkey kong and pikmin have had minimal/no discussion in this thread, so to be honest i don't see much point in expanding their rosters...

Not really sure which thread you've been reading.
Not to mention until recently Isaac, Lyn, and Ridley had hardly been discussed except "oh, yeah, I like them," and the occasional moveset proposition.

 

[GunBuster]

>No more characters from a series with three or more characters
>Wants another spacie
>Wants more Fire Emblem

also, I specified that the franchise should have more than 3 existing characters to be discounted... implying 4 reps should be the max for a fairly popular franchise in smash. Lyndis would be the 4th for fire emblem

 

[Fortress]

who would you have from pikmin? louie? the president? they'd have to function exactly like olimar, and there would be little to no room for unique characteristics here.

That's... exactly what I was saying. Who else in Pikmin matters? You'd said something or other about wanting a character from a franchise that can bring something to the table, and then you mention Pikmin of all games as a franchise from which to draw from.

 

[GunBuster]

That's... exactly what I was saying. Who else in Pikmin matters? You'd said something or other about wanting a character from a franchise that can bring something to the table, and then you mention Pikmin of all games as a franchise from which to draw from.

that's what i typed to begin with.

"mother, donkey kong and pikmin have had minimal/no discussion in this thread, so to be honest i don't see much point in expanding their rosters... pikmin in particular." (though i seem to be wrong about mother, where the heck did all that come from...)

please excuse the shoddy quoting, i am not completely down with this formatting thing yet.

 

[Chzrm3]

mother, donkey kong and pikmin have had minimal/no discussion in this thread, so to be honest i don't see much point in expanding their rosters...

Ahh, I can't get behind this. Sorry!

The DK snub is too harsh, and that reasoning doesn't make sense. There's been plenty of talking about DK reps in this thread. K. Rool, Dixie, heck even Funky and Lanky! There is the chance that DK is getting more reps in Smash 4, but to me that only means "save them 'till later". Maybe work on Lyn and Ridley for now, and then when Smash 4 is released those guys will probably be done and the work on Dixie can begin in earnest.

I definitely feel that both Metroid and DK deserve a third character. Both of those franchises are massive and extremely popular. It's really weird for them to be sitting at 2, and I think that's something the PM team can fix.

 

[Fortress]

Gomar & Shioh for F-Zero Icy clone, please.

 

[Generically Epic]

Personally, I'd love an MU (avatar or robin) character from fire emblem. It would be nice to represent the more magic side of fe. Also, tacticians use magic aaaand swords. :3
Magic has a bit more variety for potential moves. Nosferatu could steal hp. You have mire, that hits far away. You have wind, fire, and lightning magic. Some abilities could be used. Like astra, multi hit attack. Vengence, get hurt, no knockback, but double the damage back to them. Etc.

however, I'm not sure if any of the MUs are in brawl... maybe as a sticker? I believe MU is at least mentioned...

 

[Shin F.]

I was looking over my other post, and I realized I could probably have formatted my Ninten +1 reasoning more like the ones in the OP, so I decided to go on ahead and do that.

Ninten (Mother / EarthBound Zero)

(Full size image here: http://static2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20131102064529/fantendo/images/d/d1/NintenRim.png)

Value: B (Important to the series as a whole, but in a saturated series)
Effort: A (Psuedoclone. Luigified Ness/Lucas, easy model / texture edit of Ness, can borrow many moves from them while having his own, unique divergences.)

Background/Reasons: The only main Mother character still not playable, and the star of the first game. Not a walking spoiler. To prevent him looking too similarly to Ness, he can wear his clothes from the live commercial rather than his official art.

Moveset: Most normal moves and animations can be cloned from Ness and Lucas. The specials could as well, but if they weren't cloned then they would revolve around buffs and shields. Quick Up (temporary speed increase), Power Shield (which blocks physical rather than energy attacks), PSI Hypnosis (like Jigglypuff's Sing), 4th-D Slip (Teleports), and PK Beam (Unique to Earthbound Zero) are ideal techniques, though he also has a boomerang and a slingshot.

As a Final Smash, he could have either PK Beam or a combination of PSI Life Up and a number of Shields that would heal him completely and give him temporary invulnerability. Maybe add some buffs like Offense Up and Quick Up to make him faster and stronger during this period a la Wario Man. Finally, he could have Brain Cyclone as a Final Smash, which would work in three waves radiating from him. The first would spike characters it hits down, the second would stun them, and the third would have large knockback.

Pros
Important character from his series.
Luigifiable.
Would smoothly round out the reps from the Mother Trilogy. (Not a walking spoiler.)
Appears in Brawl as a sticker.
So many Mother fans. Feed their voracious hunger.

Cons
From a small series that already has two reps.
No voice clips, but could remain silent or borrow generic voice clips from Ness' old appearances in 64 and Melee.

 

[GunBuster]

Ahh, I can't get behind this. Sorry!

The DK snub is too harsh, and that reasoning doesn't make sense. There's been plenty of talking about DK reps in this thread.

you know what? i seem to be getting websites and threads confused... apologies for that, everyone. i thought the general consensus was that it's a pretty unspectacular idea.

I have to say another DK rep from the Rare era would be pretty neat in all honesty.

 

[Fortress]

Magic has a bit more variety for potential moves. Nosferatu could steal hp. You have mire, that hits far away. You have wind, fire, and lightning magic. Some abilities could be used. Like astra, multi hit attack. Vengence, get hurt, no knockback, but double the damage back to them. Etc.

You had me at 'mage' <3

Another 'Zelda' in the mix? Sign me up.

 

[GunBuster]

p

Personally, I'd love an MU (avatar or robin) character from fire emblem. It would be nice to represent the more magic side of fe. Also, tacticians use magic aaaand swords. :3
Magic has a bit more variety for potential moves. Nosferatu could steal hp. You have mire, that hits far away. You have wind, fire, and lightning magic. Some abilities could be used. Like astra, multi hit attack. Vengence, get hurt, no knockback, but double the damage back to them. Etc.

however, I'm not sure if any of the MUs are in brawl... maybe as a sticker? I believe MU is at least mentioned...

no, japan had one in FE12 in 2010 and Awakening MU was only introduced last year. as far as i know, those are the only two instances of "my unit".

 

[Chzrm3]

you know what? i seem to be getting websites and threads confused... apologies for that, everyone. i thought the general consensus was that it's a pretty unspectacular idea.

I have to say another DK rep from the Rare era would be pretty neat in all honesty.

Haha, no worries. As you can see from my profile, I'm extremely biased towards DK. : > And I really liked all the other things you said. I just always have to stick up for DK. =)

 

[mikeyn1gm]

IF there was a 4th kirby character put into SSB4........Do think Knuckle Joe is getting in? or will Bandana Dee steal it? (Because of Kirby:Return to Dreamland) even though Waddle Dees are used projectiles by DeDeDe

 

[Chzrm3]

Waddle Dee with a spear and Knuckle Joe with his martial arts both seem like they'd be pretty fun playstyles. I don't care about either of the characters very much, but I've always wanted a spear-character.

 

[trojanpooh]

IF there was a 4th kirby character put into SSB4........Do think Knuckle Joe is getting in? or will Bandana Dee steal it? (Because of Kirby:Return to Dreamland) even though Waddle Dees are used projectiles by DeDeDe

Of those two I'd rather have Bandana Dee.

 

[AnOkayDM]

Of those two I'd rather have Bandana Dee.

As would I. A spear-user would be interesting and since he was in RtDL he basically has a Smash moveset already.

 

[Solbliminal]

Daroachhhhh anyone?

 

[red9rd]

I was looking over my other post, and I realized I could probably have formatted my Ninten +1 reasoning more like the ones in the OP, so I decided to go on ahead and do that.

Ninten (Mother / EarthBound Zero)

(Full size image here: http://static2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20131102064529/fantendo/images/d/d1/NintenRim.png)

Value: B (Important to the series as a whole, but in a saturated series)
Effort: A (Psuedoclone. Luigified Ness/Lucas, easy model / texture edit of Ness, can borrow many moves from them while having his own, unique divergences.)

Background/Reasons: The only main Mother character still not playable, and the star of the first game. Not a walking spoiler. To prevent him looking too similarly to Ness, he can wear his clothes from the live commercial rather than his official art.

Moveset: Most normal moves and animations can be cloned from Ness and Lucas. The specials could as well, but if they weren't cloned then they would revolve around buffs and shields. Quick Up (temporary speed increase), Power Shield (which blocks physical rather than energy attacks), PSI Hypnosis (like Jigglypuff's Sing), 4th-D Slip (Teleports), and PK Beam (Unique to Earthbound Zero) are ideal techniques, though he also has a boomerang and a slingshot. As a Final Smash, he could have either PK Beam or a combination of PSI Life Up and a number of Shields that would heal him completely and give him temporary invulnerability. Maybe add some buffs like Offense Up and Quick Up to make him faster and stronger during this period a la Wario Man.

Pros
Important character from his series.
Luigifiable.
Would smoothly round out the reps from the Mother Trilogy. (Not a walking spoiler.)
Appears in Brawl as a sticker.
So many Mother fans. Feed their voracious hunger.

Cons
From a small series that already has two reps.
No voice clips, but could remain silent or borrow generic voice clips from Ness' old appearances in 64 and Melee.

Another character from Mother would be Awesome and the move ideas were cool, but in my opinion I think it would be better to have a PK/PSI Main, a weapon main, a thief, or a villain instead.

 

[splat]

Daroachhhhh anyone?

Daroach no-one.

For Kirby it's Bandana Dee or bust.