New Characters for Project M Discussion Thread (Voting Closed)

[Hungry Headcrab]

Ridley wouldn't be any more out of place than Solid Freaking Snake.

The fact that none of the PMBR team has shown any interest in any Ridley discussion about how he would work (like hitboxes, animations, etc.) despite how highly requested he is, I think is a sign that they do not have even have him considered.

Honestly, I think the only way he's getting into Project M is if Sakurai de-confirms him. I think that is going to open up an absolutely massive deluge of requests for Ridley to be in this, and Ridley is going to even blow away Isaac in terms of requests at that point.

I think it's a bad idea to assume everybody is as excited for Ridley as you are.

I believe Ridley is plenty doable given the talent the PMBR has shown so far, but I also feel like it would be incredibly easy to mess up. Loving the character doesn't change that.

What I'm trying to say is, I can understand the, uh, "Too Bigots'" concerns.

 

[ChronoBound]

I think it's a bad idea to assume everybody is as excited for Ridley as you are.
.

Ridley is the highest requested newcomer for Project M outside of Isaac.

Outside of Project M, Ridley is the most wanted newcomer for Smash 4.

I would say PLENTY of other people are hyped about Ridley.

 

[ChronoBound]

But back to your post, I love the idea of Sami being one of the clone characters. I just don't have the feeling that she'll make it unfortunately... Which is pretty sad since she'd represent a new series in Smash and she'd be another female rep.

The thing is, there is a very small pool of very highly requested characters.

In terms of requests grouped by tiers:

S:
Isaac
Ridley

A:
Lyn
Dixie Kong
Black Shadow (though the choice stirs up intense flame wars)

B:
Sami
Saki
Sukapon
Bowser Jr.

Looking at possible choices just from the B-tier, the only two that are really well known are Bowser Jr. and Saki.

So assuming we get Isaac, Lyn, and Dixie Kong (and maybe Ridley), you already have the most popularly requested guys in, so maybe the team would be willing to take a risk of a Marth/Roy style character like Sami (especially consider she is easy clone material), and considering the only other popularly requested character on par with the other four there is Black Shadow (who is risky for different reasons).

 

[Chzrm3]

Ridley wouldn't be any more out of place than Solid Freaking Snake.

I've actually always felt like Snake was a weird character. His uair and utilt especially, wtf is going on there? O_o Something about him is just bizarre, he's really lanky and erratic.

That's more about how Sakurai designed him, though. Snake definitely didn't need to have such weird standard attacks.

 

[ChronoBound]

I believe Ridley is plenty doable given the talent the PMBR has shown so far, but I also feel like it would be incredibly easy to mess up. Loving the character doesn't change that.

What I'm trying to say is, I can understand the, uh, "Too Bigots'" concerns.

That is why I suggested Ridley to be the last character worked on. Ridley has the largest fanbase of any character that has yet to become playable in Smash Bros., and in the event that Sakurai de-confirms Ridley (again the hints about the Pyrosphere), there will be a large pool of support and ideas for the team to draw from that would help the team facilitate making Ridley into a fighter.

Secondly, the "Too Bigots" think he can't be made at all, not that he's feasible, but difficult.

 

[Saito]

Yeah! When you describe it like this, I can really see her in action. I especially love the idea of her tail and ears being used as blades throughout the moveset. : D

For Uair and Dair, I think Marth's sweeping Uair and Dair would actually work really well. Her nair could be that spinning attack that Sonic/Falco used to have - I don't think anyone has it now, so it wouldn't feel repetitive, and it'd fit well with the whole theme of the leaves cutting people up.

>Her




Kek
--------------
Problem with marth's down air is that he can swing his sword downward really fast. Leafeon would have to do a full spin to get a slash that could match the ark.

Thinking about it though, that wouldn't be a problem. Pikachu spins all the time at really fast speeds too.

So Marth Uair and Dair covers that.

Now for the Utilt. Could be a headbutt, similar to that of what a bull would do. One that would launch people upward.

How do you think she'd throw? Sticking people with her tail and then tossing them away? Or is that a little too violent? XD

Such evil. Wao

Throws are going to be a problem, A Pokemon like that couldn't grab. Doesn't have the vines to match the vine whip grab either.
Biting works, but how you throw them upwards without having the jaws like Charizard is quite hard to believe.

Uthrow Ike Esque (in a sense) Pull's down then just headbutts upward. Essentially the same thing.
FThrow Mario esque, full body spin.
Bthrow Pikachu esque. Except without all the spinning. Just pull then throw. Hard to explain though.
Dthrow Wolf Esque. Slashes with a tail instead though

 

[Hungry Headcrab]

Ridley is the highest requested newcomer for Project M outside of Isaac.

Outside of Project M, Ridley is the most wanted newcomer for Smash 4.

I would say PLENTY of other people are hyped about Ridley.

Plenty of people ARE hyped for Ridley. I myself would love to see Ridley.

What I've noticed in peoples' posts though, and I'm sure I'm guilty of this as well, is that we like to ignore legitimate concerns about a character simply because we love the character.

I believe Ridley's size is a legitimate concern, but I also believe it can easily be handled if done properly, which I trust the PMBR to do. The initial post, calling the argument "********," as well as the Ridley fanatics, uh, showcasing their passion, whenever somebody raises the concern doesn't change the fact that Ridley's size IS, in fact, a legitimate concern.

Secondly, the "Too Bigots" think he can't be made at all, not that he's feasible, but difficult.

Can we stop generalizing? About those for Ridley, about those against it, about those who don't care at all... I'm sick of reading all of these "we's" and "they's" and whatnot.

Nobody here should be speaking for anyone but themselves, and nobody here should be speaking with any authority whatsoever unless they are a member of the PMBR.

 

[red9rd]

 

[Alfonzo Bagpipez]

 

[SpiderMad]

Can't believe all the sonic characters are at the bottom of that vote list, who are you people?

 

[ChronoBound]

What I've noticed in peoples' posts though, and I'm sure I'm guilty of this as well, is that we like to ignore legitimate concerns about a character simply because we love the character.

I have brought up possible obstacles for any character suggestions I made. Most recently, I brought up whether making new series icons and jingles would be an obstacle for possible new series newcomers like Isaac and Sami.

I also wrote in detail brought up the possible concerns and obstacles for Sami in my detailed essay on a possible Marth/Roy character (namely being less known, and lacking a 3D model for the team to base off what she would look like in 3D).

Though on the being less known part, to be fair, I do think she is more well known than characters like Sukapon and Masked Man, since she was at least in three internationally released games that sold well.

For Lip, I talked about the obstacle of her having to be a character having to be made from the ground up, her obscurity, and problems with her design (myself and many others don't want loli-upskirts in Smash Bros.).

I even brought up the issue of voices (namely this is going to be an obstacle for many characters), and how to get an appropriate voice for popular choices for characters like Isaac and Lyn.

I believe Ridley's size is a legitimate concern, but I also believe it can easily be handled if done properly, which I trust the PMBR to do. The initial post, calling the argument "********," as well as the Ridley fanatics going to war whenever anybody raises the concern doesn't change the fact that Ridley's size IS a legitimate concern.

Personally, I don't think the size is the problem, but rather the proportions. Namely stuff like the wings and tail. Though its possible he can just be a lankier Charizard. However, you also need to figure out what his ideal stance would be (would he be standing, or would he be hunched), how he would walk and run. Stuff like that.Since he is not human, you would need to have far more imagination and time in implementing these things and drawing them up.

I think while the team does has the chops to do Ridley, I think they know the obstacles for him, which is why I have said I am not optimistic on his inclusion as a newcomer for this (though that may change depending on what Sakurai does with Ridley in Smash 4).

I have talked about Ridley being a bit tricky, which is why I suggested for him to be the last character to tackle if they did decide to add him.

Can we stop generalizing? About those for Ridley, about those against it, about those who don't care at all... I'm sick of reading all of these "we's" and "they's" and whatnot.

Nobody here should be speaking for anyone but themselves, and nobody here should be speaking with any authority whatsoever unless they are a member of the PMBR.

I have been with the Smash Bros. fanbase (particularly the speculation and character support) aspect for well over a decade. I do know those types well enough to say what I said. I can't speak on authority in regards to programming or limitations though, which is why I don't have much to say on those topic (except skepticism about whether such and such would be possible or an obstacle).

 

[Solbliminal]

Can't believe all the sonic characters are at the bottom of that vote list, who are you people?

Haters.

 

[ChronoBound]

Can't believe all the sonic characters are at the bottom of that vote list, who are you people?

People that think guest characters shouldn't have additional fighters in a Nintendo All-Star game?

 

[Solbliminal]

People that think guest characters shouldn't have additional fighters in a Nintendo All-Star game?

-cough- Geno -cough- Simon Belmont -cough-

What?

 

[ChronoBound]

-cough- Geno -cough- Simon Belmont -cough-

What?

First: Geno and Simon Belmont are barely requested (and don't even qualify for Project M)

Second: I was talking about how people think guest characters (Snake and Sonic: their series's respectively) should not have an additional character in a franchise for Nintendo All-Stars.

Even extended outside of Project M, there is only one third-party newcomer that is decently requested and that's Pac-Man (and that's primarily due to the fact that Namco is developing the game, and the heavy rumors that he is going to end up playable anyway).

 

[_Liquid_]

Ridley is the highest requested newcomer for Project M outside of Isaac.

Outside of Project M, Ridley is the most wanted newcomer for Smash 4.

The thing is, there is a very small pool of very highly requested characters.

In terms of requests grouped by tiers:

S:
Isaac
Ridley

A:
Lyn
Dixie Kong
Black Shadow (though the choice stirs up intense flame wars)

B:
Sami
Saki
Sukapon
Bowser Jr.

I'm indifferent to Ridley since I haven't played any Metroid games, but where in the world are you getting your data from? It seems like you're just passing your opinions or limited scope of the entire smash community as fact.

 

[ChronoBound]

I'm indifferent to Ridley since I haven't played any Metroid games, but where in the world are you getting your data from? It seems like you're just passing your opinions or limited scope of the entire smash community as fact.

Based off the results to this thread. I did not post specific results since it just results in tears from supporters of characters that happen to be doing poorly.

 

[Solbliminal]

First: Geno and Simon Belmont are barely requested (and don't even qualify for Project M)

Second: I was talking about how people think guest characters (Snake and Sonic: their series's respectively) should not have an additional character in a franchise for Nintendo All-Stars.

Even extended outside of Project M, there is only one third-party newcomer that is decently requested and that's Pac-Man (and that's primarily due to the fact that Namco is developing the game, and the heavy rumors that he is going to end up playable anyway).

1: That'sthejoke. I'm obviously not being serious.

2: What? Now I know you are blind. The only reason there are no requests for those characters is because they don't meet the qualifications. Simon Belmont and Geno are more requested than you apparently know outside of Project M. You check just about any Smash Bros related posts on a website and find a handful of Simon Belmont supporters. As for Geno: http://youtube.com/watch?v=d7qy2XwUDIo

 

[red9rd]

... biased

 

[ChronoBound]

2: What? Now I know you are blind. The only reason there are no requests for those characters is because they don't meet the qualifications. Simon Belmont and Geno are more requested than you apparently know outside of Project M.

Go to the Smash 4 forum section of this site and you will see that Geno has fallen behind basically Toad, Bowser Jr., Paper Mario, and even Waluigi.

Secondly, you did not understand the context.

Within the context of popularly requested characters for Smash 4, according to many polls, there are few Top 20 most wanted characters aside from Mega Man (who got in), Pac-Man (highly rumored), Banjo-Kazooie (disqualified), and maybe Bomberman.

The Geno fanbase popped after Brawl's release.

 

[ChronoBound]

... biased

It seems you are just upvoting any post critical of me since I was critical of Masked Man. That is profoundly childish.

Solblinal seems to be the same.

 

[Solbliminal]

It seems you are just upvoting any post critical of me since I was critical of Masked Man. That is profoundly childish.

Solblinal seems to be the same.

I could say the same about your Ridley posts.

 

[ChronoBound]

I could say the same about your Ridley posts.

Not really. I think everyone got a kick out of Ace Attorney Ridley.

 

[_Liquid_]

Based off the results to this thread. I did not post specific results since it just results in tears from supporters of characters that happen to be doing poorly.

This thread alone represents a small portion of the actual requests for PM, and Smash 4. And posting a tier list a long with "Ridley is the highest requested newcomer for Project M outside of Isaac." is quantifying the requests to an extent, which I would consider specific. Also, you continue to shun the idea of more sonic characters, as if that puts them at some major disadvantage. From my experience, Knuckles and Shadow are just as much if not more requested than Ridley, plus they fit the "being included in brawl in some form" bill.

 

[DrinkingFood]

boy i'ma need some chemotherapy after coming back to this thread

 

[Solbliminal]

Not really. I think everyone got a kick out of Ace Attorney Ridley.

You didn't seem to get a kick out any post relating to him being far too big for the game. Your bias is showing.

 

[ChronoBound]

Also, you continue to shun the idea of more sonic characters, as if that puts them at some major disadvantage. From my experience, Knuckles and Shadow are just as much if not more requested than Ridley, plus they fit the "being included in brawl in some form" bill.

On bolded: Where?

Sonic characters are absolutely dominating the hate list in this thread, with no other Nintendo characters coming close to them (the closest seems to Waluigi, and maybe Pichu).

There is a variety of reasons for that.

This seems to reek of the same "I don't like the results, so that don't mean diddly squat".

The fact is that the Smash Bros. fanbase is extremely conservative in regards to additional third-party characters.

 

[Hungry Headcrab]

I have brought up possible obstacles for any character suggestions I made. Most recently, I brought up whether making new series icons and jingles would be an obstacle for possible new series newcomers like Isaac and Sami.

I also wrote in detail brought up the possible concerns and obstacles for Sami in my detailed essay on a possible Marth/Roy character (namely being less known, and lacking a 3D model for the team to base off what she would look like in 3D).

Though on the being less known part, to be fair, I do think she is more well known than characters like Sukapon and Masked Man, since she was at least in three internationally released games that sold well.

For Lip, I talked about the obstacle of her having to be a character having to be made from the ground up, her obscurity, and problems with her design (myself and many others don't want loli-upskirts in Smash Bros.).

I even brought up the issue of voices (namely this is going to be an obstacle for many characters), and how to get an appropriate voice for popular choices for characters like Isaac and Lyn.

Sorry for that, I just realized that I was generalizing a bit when I made that first statement, but that doesn't change the fact that many of us, myself included, like to ignore the problems with our suggestions. Ridley fans show this to us time and time again.

I have been with the Smash Bros. fanbase (particularly the speculation and character support) aspect for well over a decade. I do know those types well enough to say what I said. I can't speak on authority in regards to programming or limitations though, which is why I don't have much to say on those topic (except skepticism about whether such and such would be possible or an obstacle).

Nuh uh, I'm a bigger fan than you. I can say this with authority because I played Smash 64 and had some thoughts about who should have been in Melee. I've been at this a real long time, no big deal.

Seriously though, for the most part, I don't disagree with the opinions you've shown in this thread, but I see absolutely no reason to look to you as a voice of authority just because you've been talking about Smash Bros. candidates longer than most people.

Get over yourself, your voice carries no more weight than anyone else's.

 

[ChronoBound]

You didn't seem to get a kick out any post relating to him being far too big for the game. Your bias is showing.

Thought you were being serious, so I gave you a serious response.

You need to let go of this petty grudge just because myself and many others are not keen on a second Sonic character.

 

[ChronoBound]

Seriously though, for the most part, I don't disagree with the opinions you've shown in this thread, but I see absolutely no reason to look to you as a voice of authority just because you've been talking about Smash Bros. candidates longer than most people.

I don't know why you are being jerkish to me.

I am not speaking as a voice of authority, but rather bringing up what goes on in terms of requests:
1. Inside this thread.
2. In terms for requests for the actual Smash 4.

With the Smash Bros. speculation aspect of the fanbase, I am definitely one of more well known speculators, and definitely the longest running one.

 

[red9rd]

more like a Negative Nancy

 

[XStarWarriorX]

Guys will you just chill out? Ridley is not too big, he can be a pain to manage but he's doable. As for sonic characters, they are guest characters like it or not and I don't think the PMBR would like adding random 3rd parties, so no geno or extra third parties. this is a mod for a nintendo game afterall. imo.

As for masked man, he would only work if there is popular demand, the PMBR said yeah sure, but from what i hear he sounds like a pain to make just as much as ridley, because of the jetpack the many articles... things like that.

But again it all comes down to the PMBR, so enough with the attacking of each other.

Oh and btw even the all posters have the same weight, someone with sensible posting is more respected than someone who hasn't been around, not taking sides just sayin'.

 

[ChronoBound]

more like a Negative Nancy

The only character choices that I have not been keen on were Sonic characters and Waluigi. Plenty of other people are also critical of these characters considering they are in Top 4 of the "downvote" list.

On Pichu, although I have (correctly) said he is very divisive and probably among the Top 3 least popular characters in Smash Bros., I am actually neutral on him. The same goes for the other divisive choice Black Shadow/de-cloned Ganondorf (I am sympathetic to both sides, and my stance is basically to see what Sakurai does with him for Smash 4).

On Masked Man, all I said is that I don't think the character has a few issues to him that makes him not measure up to many other possible choices.

That does not make a negative nancy.

 

[red9rd]

Guys will you just chill out? Ridley is not too big, he can be a pain to manage but he's doable. As for sonic characters, they are guest characters like it or not and I don't think the PMBR would like adding random 3rd parties, so no geno or extra third parties. this is a mod for a nintendo game afterall. imo.

As for masked man, he would only work if there is popular demand, the PMBR said yeah sure, but from what i hear he sounds like a pain to make just as much as ridley, because of the jetpack the many articles... things like that.

But again it all comes down to the PMBR, so enough with the attacking of each other.

Oh and btw even the all posters have the same weight, someone with sensible posting is more respected than someone who hasn't been around, not taking sides just sayin'.

The PMBR said if the characters are in brawl stickers and trophies included, their eligible.

 

[_Liquid_]

On bolded: Where?

Sonic characters are absolutely dominating the hate list in this thread, with no other Nintendo characters coming close to them (the closest seems to Waluigi, and maybe Pichu).

There is a variety of reasons for that.

This seems to reek of the same "I don't like the results, so that don't mean diddly squat".

The fact is that the Smash Bros. fanbase is extremely conservative in regards to additional third-party characters.

My experience comes from browsing the Project M sub forum and along with the subreddit. Again, I'm just saying from my experience though, I'm not claiming anything as subjective as this matter is as fact.

You on the other hand make very general statements about the community as a whole and claim them as fact.I think you need to recognize your bias.

 

[ChronoBound]

My experience comes from browsing the Project M sub forum and along with the subreddit. Again, I'm just saying from my experience though, I'm not claiming anything as subjective as this matter is as fact.

You on the other hand make very general statements about the community as a whole and claim them as fact.I think you need to recognize your bias.

On the Project M sub-forum here, Sonic characters are among the least popular choices, so I don't known what you have been reading.

On the actual Smash 4 forums for at least SmashBoards, GameFAQs, and NeoGAF, additional Sonic characters are unpopular choices, while Ridley is a popular choice.

This is not a bias, so much as an observation, that many, many people will back me up on.

If you want, you can make an inquiry on the Smash 4 section of this site (the general Smash 4 discussion thread or roster discussion thread on the character discussion thread), and ask them how requested Ridley is, and how popular additional Sonic characters are, if you believe this to be merely my own bias.

 

[trojanpooh]

I have been with the Smash Bros. fanbase (particularly the speculation and character support) aspect for well over a decade.

Given this I'd think you'd be more self aware of how terribad your 'analyses' are.

 

[ChronoBound]

Given this I'd think you'd be more self aware of how terribad your 'analyses' are.

Keep the dogpiling coming.

I think you are mad at me for my statements about Pichu being unpopular outside the competitive set?

As I stated before, make a poll asking people who their least favorite character was to ever enter Smash Bros. as a playable character, and I can guarantee you Pichu will be within the Top 3.

I have said that I am personally neutral on Pichu getting into Project M, however, you are personally angry with me for stating the obvious.

 

[_Liquid_]

On the Project M sub-forum here, Sonic characters are among the least popular choices, so I don't known what you have been reading.

On the actual Smash 4 forums for at least SmashBoards, GameFAQs, and NeoGAF, additional Sonic characters are unpopular choices, while Ridley is a popular choice.

This is not a bias, so much as an observation, that many, many people will back me up on.

If you want, you can make an inquiry on the Smash 4 section of this site (the general Smash 4 discussion thread or roster discussion thread on the character discussion thread), and ask them how requested Ridley is, and how popular additional Sonic characters are, if you believe this to be merely my own bias.

I'm not saying your observations are necessarily incorrect, just the way you present your observations. You present them in such an absolute way, without acknowledging you can't speak for everyone and have a limited view on the community as a whole. I would argue that the Sonic series is one of the biggest of all time, and has become more and more involved with Nintendo in recent years. Also, I'd like to point out the top 10 most downloaded hacks on brawlvault. I would say you're definitely understating the Sonic characters' popularity and the desire for them to be in Smash Bros.

 

[Hungry Headcrab]

I don't know why you are being jerkish to me.

I am not speaking as a voice of authority, but rather bringing up what goes on in terms of requests:
1. Inside this thread.
2. In terms for requests for the actual Smash 4.

With the Smash Bros. speculation aspect of the fanbase, I am definitely one of more well known speculators, and definitely the longest running one.

Several times throughout this thread you, a single person, have spoken on behalf of entire communities and fanbases. You present your own opinions as facts, often backing up these opinions with generalized statements from those communities.

You speak with authority that, frankly, you don't have, and that bothers me.

I was rude, and for that I apologize. But you have to understand that nobody has to care about your, for lack of a better term, credentials.

You've presented well researched opinions, and have brought up many valid points throughout the thread; however, I can't take you seriously the moment you bring up "we's" and "they's" and start speaking on their behalf.

You speak for yourself and no one else.

Edit:

Oh and btw even the all posters have the same weight, someone with sensible posting is more respected than someone who hasn't been around, not taking sides just sayin'.

^This^

For the most part, ChronoBound, you have shown very sensible reasoning, I agree with many of your opinions, in fact.

You don't need to generalize, speak on behalf of communities, or bring up your Smash resume in order to validate your opinions.