New Characters for Project M Discussion Thread (Voting Closed)

[Paradoxium]

The issue with Young Link is that his playstyle is essentially covered by Toon Link. The multi-hit spin attack and bombs, the flaming arrows, the flaming dair, and even the milk taunt were all transferred over to Toon Link. There's a good case to make for Young Link returning with his masks from Majoras, but those transformations would eat up nearly all of the remaining slots. Bringing Pichu back still leaves plenty of room for fan favorites like Issac, Lyndis, Ridley, and Dixie.

None of Pichu's unique attributes are really shared by anyone in P:M, and Pichu could very well be retooled to be a much more fun and dynamic character than he was in Melee.

It's easy to sit here and say that people don't want pichu-- however, people aren't always right. People didn't want Link and the rest of the characters to look as cartoony as they did when Wind Waker was first announced. Yet and still, the game went on to be a massive hit.

Whether Pichu makes it or not, I'm certain that the PMBR knows what they're doing and will make the right choice.

EDIT: I'm not saying there's no legitimate reason to not want Pichu-- I'm just saying that fan expectations/reactions aren't always the best way to gauge how well a character would work in P:M. NOBODY was anticipating Mr. Game and Watch before SSBM came out.

The only plus side to pichu's play style was his ability to gimp, which pikachu does much better. Pichu's playstyle was run away until you opponent messes up, than attempt to punish. Yl's attributes were also put into both Link and TL, which is probably why he isn't coming back

 

[arcticfox8]

No replacing Ganon, it's not going to happen. We might get a different Ganon, but there is no way they'll change the current Dorf.

 

[ChronoBound]

Sami is a really solid choice. She is practically the main character of Advance Wars: Dual Strike because she's so powerful. So she plays a pretty big role in every Advance wars game that's not Days of Ruin.

She also is unlikely to be in Smash 4. Incredibly unlikely since the most recent Advance Wars game omitted her. Which is why she feels like a great fit for a crossover mod between Melee and Brawl, that was her time period.

I would also add in easy clone potential off of Snake , and the fact that Advance Wars is one of Nintendo's most popular franchises (outside of Punch-Out, Golden Sun, and Mii) lacking a playable character in Smash Bros. The fact that Advance Wars likely won't get a playable character in Smash 4 (negligible popularity in Japan), makes the opportunity to include one for Project M even more appealing.

Personally, I am still amazed with what they were able make Mewtwo and Roy the way they were able to.

I am expecting the next clone engine announcement to happen some time in March or April.

Bringing Pichu back still leaves plenty of room for fan favorites like Issac, Lyndis, Ridley, and Dixie.

Yeah, I keep going back to those four in regards to who they should add. I think a fifth more unorthodox/less-requested choice (Pichu, Sami, or Sukapon), would be good next to the icons/popular guys. Even Smash Bros. never throws in exclusively characters that were asked for.

 

[Anti Guy]

Trident: Not a sword, reasons being: Ganon has used tridents more often, it’s more symbolically appropriate for a King of Evil, it’s more serviceable for magic since it can be held as a staff, and swords have just been played out both in Smash (especially when considering some of the other characters on the poll) and in general.
Of course, the reasons aren’t entirely notional; a trident would also provide variety in gameplay. The trident allows for both much closer- and farther-ranged attacks than the less versatile sword, as well as everything in between. While bladed tridents have been used in the games, a typical one is really only useful for piercing; consequently, whereas a sword swipe hits the arc of a circle centered on the character, a trident thrust hits a rectangle extending from the character. If he does have a token slash, it could have a tipper sweetspot with a sourspot worse than Melee Roy’s. Extending this train of thought, the stabs could be set up to have little or no power against opponents who come at the trident from its side as opposed to its tip. This could even be used in the charge of a Smash attack, with the trident firmly braced forward and a hitbox present for anyone who charges straight into it.

Ganondorf in his humanoid form never used a trident has only used swords. GANON (i.e. pig form) uses a trident.

 

[UltimateWario]

Ganondorf in his humanoid form never used a trident has only used swords. GANON (i.e. pig form) uses a trident.

Ness has never used any of his PK Powers either (with the exception of the PSI Absorb, I think). Not only that, Ganon and Ganondorf are the same character in different forms. I think GDorf would look pretty badass with a trident.

Yeah, I keep going back to those four in regards to who they should add. I think a fifth more unorthodox/less-requested choice (Pichu, Sami, or Sukapon), would be good next to the icons/popular guys. Even Smash Bros. never throws in exclusively characters that were asked for.

I think we should wait to see if Ridley is in SSB4 before "confirming" him, though if he's not, I'll be looking to Project M for my Ridley fix.

 

[TopTierPichu]

Ness has never used any of his PK Powers either (with the exception of the PSI Absorb, I think). Not only that, Ganon and Ganondorf are the same character in different forms. I think GDorf would look pretty badass with a trident.



I think we should wait to see if Ridley is in SSB4 before "confirming" him, though if he's not, I'll be looking to Project M for my Ridley fix.

and PK Flash, all his Normals suit him though, with things like Ness and Lucas i feel the PMBR has a lot of creative freedom

 

[Anti Guy]

Ness has never used any of his PK Powers either (with the exception of the PSI Absorb, I think). Not only that, Ganon and Ganondorf are the same character in different forms. I think GDorf would look pretty badass with a trident.

The PK abilities are just attacks though. Ganondorf constantly holding a trident just looks weird and goes beyond canon flexibility IMO

 

[Empyrean]

Okay, I recently finished watching through Apex. After seeing many different characters being played and so many different styles for each character, I thought of some chars whose playstyle I would really be interested in seeing reproduced (granted with some variations of speed and strength) or, to be more accurate, handled differently with a potential clone. Note that I am not considering my personal choices. I also am not going to assign a possible candidate for each listing.

ZSS Clone: ZSS has gotta be one of the most interesting characters to watch. She's one of the most combo-oriented characters in the roster. Her speed is incredible and lets her chase the opponent around the stage, often comboing them to death. Her recovery options are so good and is very hard to kill early. On the downside, she is really light and dies at low percents. I was looking forward to watching Oro's ZSS at Apex, it's a damn shame he couldn't participate. He really shows how much it's possible to accomplish in a short amount of time. Now a clone wouldn't necessarily need to match her speed, but there are so many fresh playstyles that could be developed with even minimal tweaking.

Snake Clone: Do I even need to say anything? All of Snake's moves have KO potential. He has some very unique and rewarding setups. He's one of the few characters that can place traps around the stage in the form of mines and grenades. Someone can correct me on this one, but the fact he has the most articles out of any character makes of him an extremely versatile candidate as a base. The possibilities that could be explored are endless, and the results are bound to be amazing.

Zelda Clone: I know her playstyle is one of the more controversial choices, with all the hate she gets around these parts. Keep in mind that the clone would have variations of current moves so unless they copy her 1:1, the clone will most probably end up having a vastly different playstyle. I have already stated my interest in seeing teleportation be used to extend comboes, somewhat like Mewtwo's. Din's Fire could become a similar move with different properties and consequently have different purposes. Zelda would also be one of the more suitable choices for a potential magic-based clone.

Peach Clone: I really think Project M could use more defend-and-punish-oriented characters. Dsmash is pure devastation for an unprepared foe. Peach plays pretty differently from most other characters in the sense that you have very limited approach options and baiting the opponent is key, more so than anyone else The clone would not necessarily have float and Side-B and Neutral-B aren't exactly useful moves, so a different version of these moves would be interesting. I'm not sure if I was able to explain this choice well, it's more of a gut feeling...

As you can see, I didn't pick characters who already have clones/semi-clones. I know that some of these choices might not have potential, well-known candidates and that the PMBR would most probably figure a character they would like to add first instead of considering a base to clone and pasting a char later. But I also think that we should consider potential clones from a different light instead of solely using popularity as a factor.

 

[UltimateWario]

The PK abilities are just attacks though. Ganondorf constantly holding a trident just looks weird and goes beyond canon flexibility IMO

Oooookay. Whatever floats your boat, I guess.

 

[arcticfox8]

Oooookay. Whatever floats your boat, I guess.

You aren't right either.

 

[UltimateWario]

You aren't right either.

...what?

 

[Ginge]

I feel that that's not really a strong arguement for putting Pichu over Young Link: there are more than enough Pokémon as is (too).
If anything, Pichu and Young Link are equally viable using your logic.

I was saying we don't need a third Link. As in, we already have two VERY similar characters, and P:M Toon Link is essentially Brawl Toon Link and Melee Young Link fused. The idea of a third variation of the same moveset is uninteresting (cough, looking at you Spacies, cough), especially since the things that made him different from the other two are effectively nullified in the Project M-ification. The thing with Pokemon is that NONE of them play alike. So having Pichu come back with changes to the moves would be okay, but has the popular counter-argument of over-representation.

Personally, considering Pokémon has HUNDREDS of unique character movesets, I feel it is probably one of the most diverse series to draw characters from. Even if 10 characters were Pokémon, they could all be interesting and done well and I wouldn't consider it oversaturating. I just think that if they do more Pokémon, they should look past Gen 1. But other series deserve (more) roster slots such as DK, Metroid, or Golden Sun first.

The other series that I think has a lot of diversity to pick from is Fire Emblem. But we face the problem that all the popular Fire Emblem characters are sword users. I'd want to see like... Hector with his Axe, Micaiah with magic, or Ephraim with his Lance. But you'd need to get hype going for them... Which is part of why I support Lyn (popularity, personal bias). However, there is an avid camp of people complaining about too many sword users as it is :/ But, bringing it back to Young Link, I'd rather a NEW character addition with Lyn or Isaac over Young Link if we were only to get one more sword user.

 

[Saito]

Heard a lot of 's being thrown around casually...

Stop that.

 

[UltimateWario]

I don't wanna be that guy, but hasn't Pichu been pretty much confirmed at this point? Although my source might've just been someone entirely devoted to his or her cause, I seem to remember someone mentioning that there were quite a few hints dropped about its inclusion.

Anyway, if Ridley ends up being in Smash 4, can we expect Dark Samus? The OP made it seem as though a new Metroid Rep was quite nearly a sure thing. I certainly wouldn't mind. I do love me some 'troid.

 

[Shin F.]

I don't wanna be that guy, but hasn't Pichu been pretty much confirmed at this point? Although my source might've just been someone entirely devoted to his or her cause, I seem to remember someone mentioning that there were quite a few hints dropped about its inclusion.

The only hint I can remember is a stock icon for him found in Project M 3.0's files (don't remember which one).

 

[EdgeTheLucas]

On the other hand, cmart's comment about it (something along the lines of, "there, Pichu's in Project M now, happy?") was most likely sarcastic. It may or may not actually confirm his inclusion.

 

[Bleck]

I don't wanna be that guy,

Here's a free life tip; if you find yourself beginning a sentence with this, what you're about to say is probably something that you shouldn't be saying.

 

[UltimateWario]

Here's a free life tip; if you find yourself beginning a sentence with this, what you're about to say is probably something that you shouldn't be saying.

I think that only applies to statements. Questions are free game, since, depending on the question, there's only a chance that you'll come out a douchebag.

Obviously, there are exceptions.

Spoiler

"I don't want to be that guy, but was Hitler really that bad?"

 

[Cubelarooso]

A projectile that can't be blocked by shields or reflectors and can only be avoided with a hitbox, which also homes in on opponents.

I didn't say it should go through shields or that it should follow an opponent, just that it could be unaffected by reflectors and absorbers and that it could be automatically aimed at opponents.
I do agree that it would break the action, and that it's risky for Ganondorf. But think of it like Snake's landmine: it's not something that just imposes itself on the match, but an attack that Ganondorf chose to use because he thinks it will be to his advantage, and the opponent has fair chance to stop him; it can't be ignored, but it can be avoided, eliminated, or used to one's advantage.

Ganondorf in his humanoid form never used a trident has only used swords. GANON (i.e. pig form) uses a trident.

Ganondorf's self-made humanoid clone used a trident; it's not exactly Ganondorf, but it does look like him constantly holding a trident. I think it's cool, but it's entirely subjective. Of course, Phantom Ganon and Pig Ganon are both possible alternatives to Black Shadow.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

Landmine incoming. You've been warned.

I find it absolutely hilarious that people think the Black Shadow/Ganondorf thing is a good idea. Surprisingly enough, Project M was made for Smash fans, not Zelda fans. The two may overlap but there are plenty of Ganondorf mains who have never laid a finger on a Zelda title.

And even for fans of the canon ... Try giving Ike's moveset to someone else like Greil because "it fits him better" and offering me a clone Ike with a more "canon" moveset. I assure you, there will be blood.

 

[UltimateWario]

And even for fans of the canon ... Try giving Ike's moveset to someone else like Greil because "it fits him better" and offering me a clone Ike with a more "canon" moveset. I assure you, there will be blood.

wat

Ike's canon moveset is "click and attack" with the occasional Aether and/or critical hit.

 

[Jaedrik]

W-wait, can I vote or is it all over?
:O

 

[Giygue]

Honestly, at this point there are only two ways I would want to see Young Link at this point. As an Alt for T.Link or a completely different character based more around Majora's Mask than Ocarina of Time...both of which seem highly unlikely. But hey, a guy can dream.

 

[Zeallyx]

^I've been dreaming about a Majora's Mask based Young Link for years, lol.

He'd be so awesome with down b Mask Transformations and more Majora's Mask based goodness<3

 

[Empyrean]

W-wait, can I vote or is it all over?
:O

Voting is still open.

 

[cmart]

On the other hand, cmart's comment about it (something along the lines of, "there, Pichu's in Project M now, happy?") was most likely sarcastic. It may or may not actually confirm his inclusion.

Pichu has not been confirmed in any capacity whatsoever.

 

[moonfolk]

+1

Ganondorf/Black Shadow (This solves two issues in one vote. I’ve always wanted a more accurate Ganondorf, even though I love the current moveset of PM Ganondorf. I’ve also wanted more FZero characters. Done. Top of the list for me.)

Skull Kid (Although difficult to pull off, he would do a lot for me as a player. I love the flavor of this character and know he’d have a really cool move set. We need more trickster types!)

Ridley (Um, yes please! One of my favorite characters, hands down. Slightly less difficult to pull off than Skull Kid, but still not cloneable. Plus, adds to a game with only 2 characters!)

Dark Samus (Looks amazing and fun, plus very cloneable!)

King K Rool (I’d love more DK characters, but not too many more… Basically, just this one. Could be pretty cloneable I’d think, maybe a Wario clone?)

+½

Skapon (Dunno who this is, but I would totally play this character if it were to come out, however, seems difficult to implement!)

Bowser Jr. (I almost voted +1 here, but is what we need another Mario character?)

Thom Nook (looks fun but difficult)

Dixie Kong (not as cool as King K Rool!)

Claus

Sami

--------------

I just signed up on the boards to be able to post about this! I’d like to see where we’re at on the numbers, if possible, for January.

Also, on a side note, does anyone know if it’s possible to have a Mokujin or mimic-random type character in the game; a Togepi or the training Sandbag or something that changes move sets each stock? Seems impossible, but might be surprisingly easy. Dunno. Anyway, just food for thought. I’d like to see a character like that. I usually play those types in fighting games anyway.

 

[UltimateWario]

I like the way this guy thinks.

 

[Xyn]

Also, on a side note, does anyone know if it’s possible to have a Mokujin or mimic-random type character in the game; a Togepi or the training Sandbag or something that changes move sets each stock? Seems impossible, but might be surprisingly easy. Dunno. Anyway, just food for thought. I’d like to see a character like that. I usually play those types in fighting games anyway.

Zoroark for clone engine!
Each stock it transforms into another character and after 119826489 transformations it transforms into Pic....i mean Lyn :DD

 

[Paradoxium]

I feel like everyone stopped voting for isaac because he has the most votes

 

[popsofctown]

how do you vote?

 

[GenericName]

The PMBR should totally do Chibi-Robo. It would be great xD

 

[Empyrean]

how do you vote?

Five full-votes, infinite half-votes, infinite down-votes. No characters that weren't licensed in Brawl. Check the OP for further info.

 

[arcticfox8]

The PMBR should totally do Chibi-Robo. It would be great xD

SSF2?

 

[Empyrean]

I don't think I've ever seen anyone suggest Chibi-Robo here.

 

[UltimateWario]

I feel like everyone stopped voting for isaac because he has the most votes

I feel like he's going to be a lock. Great moveset potential, plenty of stuff to go off of, not a super overdone hack, doesn't need any fancy new projectiles, etc.

If the Backroom decides to start adding new characters, I think we can all agree that Isaac deserves one of those slots, especially seeing as he's likely not getting into Smash 4.

 

[JediLink]

how do you vote?

Just write your votes in your post and Anti-Guy will count it. You only get five full votes (+1), but infinite half votes (+0.5) and also infinite down votes (-1), although if you want your down vote to be counted you need to provide a short explanation for why you don't want that character. You don't need to use all of your votes. If you just want to upvote one character that's fine.

 

[popsofctown]

My votes

-1 Knuckles
-1 Shadow
-1 Tails

Not a good way to get on Nintendo's good side. Sega's good side, maybe.

-1 Tom Nook

Most Brawl players need to buy Smash 4 to play an Animal Crossing rep. Providing an alternative to that is bad

-1 Bowser Jr
-1 Paper Mario
-1 K Rool
-1 Dixie Kong
-1 Tetra

These characters are too likely to appear in Smash 4, IMO.

I also oppose anyone whose clonability is too low to be easy for the team, but I won't issue downvotes for that.


+1 Sami
+1 Black Shadow/Ganon Declone
+1 Isaac

 

[Ginge]

-1 Lyn
These characters are too likely to appear in Smash 4, IMO.

Wat? o.o

Lyn has like.... zero chance of being playable in Smash 4. I'd say negative chance, even. She's not the main character from her game (that goes to Eliwood) and her game is not recent by a longshot. Smash 4 will have Marth and one other Fire Emblem character at most. Which will most likely go to Chrom from Fire Emblem Awakening.

 

[Banjodorf]

Wat? o.o

Lyn has like.... zero chance of being playable in Smash 4. I'd say negative chance, even. She's not the main character from her game (that goes to Eliwood) and her game is not recent by a longshot. Smash 4 will have Marth and one other Fire Emblem character at most. Which will most likely go to Chrom from Fire Emblem Awakening.

I'd also argue that both Bowser Jr. and Paper Mario's chances are about the same at this point. Not sure what world that guy's living in, but I don't think it's one with 7 Mario reps.

The others are certainly plausible to expect, so no issues there.

Edit: I expect 3 Fire Emblem characters. But then, this isn't the thread to talk about that.