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New Characters for Project M Discussion Thread (Voting Closed)

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ChronoBound

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I like how you dodged the point.
I am well aware of what franchises Sakurai takes input from in regards to Smash Bros.:
- Pokemon (Sakurai says that Game Freak/The Pokemon Company has as much control over Pokemon content in Smash Bros. as third-parties do over third-party content in Smash Bros.)
- Fire Emblem (namely about advice and permission about what characters to use)
- Zelda (namely about what character designs to use)

I have not seen him bring up collaborations with other teams for other veteran franchises already in Smash Bros.
 

Chzrm3

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Sales is a much more objective way of measuring interest and popularity than internet screaming contests.

Internet screaming contests?

http://www.eventhubs.com/news/2013/...-time-bring-back-entire-smash-roster-wii-3ds/

"Well first of all, we talk with the Pokemon company. What’s the hot Pokemon? What Pokemon are in the movies right now? And really do a lot of research on that front.

For example, X and Y are coming out – of course, we haven’t done any market research because they’re not out yet, but we look at the animated series or movies and anything like that and again, find out which ones are going to be central to any of conversations in Pokemon going forward.

But it’s not just that – going back to just what we talked about, what’s unique about them? Where do they fit in with the rest of everything else? What do they have? It’s a combination of those things."

There's a mountain of evidence to suggest that Sakurai collaborates with teams before picking characters. IE, an article where he literally describes the conversations and processes he goes through with one team. He probably had a conversation with Retro identical to the conversation he had with the Pokemon team.

To tie this back to my main point - yeah, Dixie being in Tropical Freeze means something. I can promise you there's almost no way that Sakurai didn't consult a single person about what was happening with the DK series. Again, it doesn't mean he's definitely picking Dixie, since he factors in a lot of other things too. I just think it's unfair to dismiss anyone who mentions that.

See, I'm not the hugest Bowser Jr. fan in the world, but I think a tiny Bowser would be pretty awesome. It'd be like the reverse of Falcon/Ganondorf where they took a speedy character and completely flipped him on his head. Waluigi is also super rad, but I can't even begin to fathom who he'd take after.


Haha, I was going to let this one go, but since you requested it:
Dixie is simply awful and nothing more of a sidekicks sidekick and should remain as such. She never should have gotten to star in her own game, DK shouldn't have been kidnapped, Kiddy shouldn't even exist, and Dixie should have worked as DK's temporary sidekick to save Diddy. The trilogy would have been well balanced, with each character being featured in 2 games. It's simply absurd that Dixie would ever be promoted to player 1 from a game design prospective as well. In DKC2 she was slower than Diddy but had more control. Her hair twirl was clearly meant to act as a crutch for less experienced player which is why she was player 2. Whoever is using the secondary controller is far more likely to be a guest who doesn't know the game as well as the host. In DKC3, on the other hand, player 1 gets all the hand holding and player 2 gets to skip on water, a fairly complex technique which is used all of one time in the entire game. She didn't make the cut for DK64, she follows the insultingly lazy design philosophy of gender bending an existing male character, she isn't an interesting character, and she doesn't deserve to be remembered as anything but the 2nd half of Diddy Kong. Donkey Kong Country 2 is my favorite game of all time but I can't stand Dixie. I can't even fathom why anyone would like her. Hell, I'd rather a 2nd Sonic rep make it in to Smash Bros (Project M or otherwise) than Dixie as a standalone character.

That's what I like about you, haha. Most people who hate Dixie also don't play DK games at all, and just think she's dumb. But if DKC2 is one of your favorite games, that's legit - and your PoV is really interesting.

I think it also explains why I love Dixie so much. I played DKC2 with my little brother. He was really, really young at the time - maybe 4 or 5? And we played that games off and on for years, haha, it was always part of our Saturday morning routine. I was always Diddy and he was always Dixie, so in a way I kind of began to see Dixie as an extension of him, the same way I see him in Yoshi and all that stuff. I'd never been aware of the fact that Dixie is actually easier for other people to play, but that makes a ton of sense in hindsight, and it also probably helped the game remain enjoyable even as it got harder, since my little bro had that extra wiggle room. (Although I won't lie, by the point we got to the bramble parts the level pretty much ended whenever it was his turn, haha. Poor kid, that stuff got way too hard for him.)

But yeah, of all the anti-Dixie things I've read, this one actually seems really fair. I still love her, but I totally get why you don't.
 

ChronoBound

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The other thing about

"Tropical Freeze means Dixie is confirmed to be in Smash 4" is that Toad had a slew of playable appearances between Brawl and Smash 4 (New Super Mario Bros. Wii, New Super Mario Bros. U, and most recently Super Mario 3D World). Didn't do him any good. Combine that also with the fact that New Super Mario Bros. Wii is the second highest selling home console game OF ALL TIME in Japan (yes, of all time, the only other game that sold better than NSMBWii was actually Super Mario Bros.).
 

EdgeTheLucas

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Looks like the OP was updated with new characters, but only in the updated results so no summaries :(

Regardless I'll update with a half vote for Skull Kid since he's deconfirmed for character status in Smash 4.

FULL

-Ridley
-Toad
-New Ganondorf (no replacing current one with Black Shadow or whatever, though if it makes it easier Anti Guy can count this as a Black Shadow / Ganondorf vote).
-Sukapon

HALF

-Waluigi
-Kamek
-Dixie
-Ashley
-Skull Kid*
-Pichu
-Ninten
-Masked Man
-Samurai Goroh
-Isaac

*update to votes
 

ChronoBound

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There's a mountain of evidence to suggest that Sakurai collaborates with teams before picking characters..
I knew about this for years. I even mentioned this in the previous post.

Keep in mind though, Sakurai does not know about every game that is in development when he is deciding the roster.

A prominent example of this is FE11 (Shadow Dragon). The game was in development while Sakurai was developing Brawl.

Sakurai went on the record (Sakurai hosted the Iwata Asks for this game) and said had he known about Marth's re-design in Shadow Dragon, he would have used it for Brawl.
 

mikeyn1gm

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Oh yeah, I remember now. Yeah, that's still a really stupid way to look at things. That isn't to say I'm calling you stupid, just that this mindset here is stupid. Project M is a competitive hack, you'll never see any low quality fan PSAs being used in Project M tourneys. It doesn't matter how many ___ character PSAs are out there, if there isn't an official Project M one it's still worth their time. I've used fan PSAs before and they've all been laughably terrible except for Project M's Mewtwo and Roy. Hell, even Roy isn't that good if you turn items on for a sec to use his final smash. In any case, sorry if you took it personally when I said you had a terrible mindset but it's the truth and I'm sure most of the people here would agree with me here.



But what you said here now is indubitably correct!.....of course you can't use any PSA.......I'm saying the same thing here. The PSAs have to be tweaked. In the case of Waluigi in that video, the user is already making it PM ready...........rather than just "shoving" it in there.
 

XStarWarriorX

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No, she isn't. Her main problem seems to be this sentiment:



This is all due to Tropical Freeze btw. Prior to that game releasing, everyone was saying that Dixie Kong was going to be outprioritized by K. Rool for Smash 4. The whole Tropical Freeze thing (that one announcement suddenly changes a character's fortunes, regardless of the fact that Sakurai had already decided the entire roster by the time the game was unveiled), is incredibly dumb.
Eh I just thought she was likely because she was planned for brawl is all. the TF thing helps I guess but that's not the main reason why I thought she was likely, though I'd rather have K. Rool. But with sakurai we don't know what were gonna get.

Sorry for the late reply, but the site crashed.
 

ChronoBound

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Eh I just thought she was likely because she was planned for brawl is all. the TF thing helps I guess but that's not the main reason why I thought she was likely, though I'd rather have K. Rool. But with sakurai we don't know what were gonna get.
Let's just hope Sakurai adds a DK newcomer period for Smash 4.

After Sakurai's handling of Toad (and hinting about what he has in store for Ridley), I am worried we may get very few veteran series newcomers this time around.

If Palutena is shown to be Pit's Final Smash again, that is going to be another very ugly sign.
 

trojanpooh

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It doesn't matter how PM ready they make it, it'll still be unofficial and thus not tourney ready. You're free to hack in anyone you want for your own personal pleasure, but to pick which characters get to be officially in the official game based on what crappy PSAs are already out there for the people without standards is dumb.


Also why are we even talking about Sakurai? This is a Project M character thread, not Smash 4. Besides, it's impossible to predict what he has in store, you'd think people who've been around the block since at least Brawl would know this by now.
 

Chzrm3

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It doesn't matter how PM ready they make it, it'll still be unofficial and thus not tourney ready. You're free to hack in anyone you want for your own personal pleasure, but to pick which characters get to be officially in the official game based on what crappy PSAs are already out there for the people without standards is dumb.
Did the PM team mention what they did for Mewtwo? I know there was already a Mewtwo PSA out there - did they use that, or build him entirely from scratch? I feel like I remember reading he was built from scratch, but I'm not sure.

But yeah, I think the problem with most of the PSA's floating around is that while they're fun, the characters haven't been built with PM in mind. Heck, look at how long it took to get Yoshi and Samus into PM, and they were already fully completed Brawl characters with established movesets. So taking a Waluigi PSA and trying to port that into PM, combined with the inevitability that a lot of his moves would either need to be tweaked or reworked entirely, would probably be so difficult that the PMBR would be better off starting from the beginning.

And actually, let's say you built Waluigi off Wario (just hypothetically, I dunno if that makes sense). Wario is PM-ready. He's got the physics working properly, he's capable of doing all the AT's.. if you clone Wario, that entire headache is already dealt with.

So in some cases, it might be more work to use a PSA.

Not to poop on your idea, mikey!

Keep in mind though, Sakurai does not know about every game that is in development when he is deciding the roster.

A prominent example of this is FE11 (Shadow Dragon). The game was in development while Sakurai was developing Brawl.

Sakurai went on the record (Sakurai hosted the Iwata Asks for this game) and said had he known about Marth's re-design in Shadow Dragon, he would have used it for Brawl.

That's totally fair - as long as the notion isn't dismissed as stupid or silly, I'm fine with you disagreeing with it. =) :secretkpop:
 

Saito

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"Well first of all, we talk with the Pokemon company. What’s the hot Pokemon? What Pokemon are in the movies right now? And really do a lot of research on that front.

For example, X and Y are coming out – of course, we haven’t done any market research because they’re not out yet, but we look at the animated series or movies and anything like that and again, find out which ones are going to be central to any of conversations in Pokemon going forward.

But it’s not just that – going back to just what we talked about, what’s unique about them? Where do they fit in with the rest of everything else? What do they have? It’s a combination of those things."
Sylveon confirmed for smash 4.

 

mikeyn1gm

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It doesn't matter how PM ready they make it, it'll still be unofficial and thus not tourney ready. You're free to hack in anyone you want for your own personal pleasure, but to pick which characters get to be officially in the official game based on what crappy PSAs are already out there for the people without standards is dumb.


Also why are we even talking about Sakurai? This is a Project M character thread, not Smash 4. Besides, it's impossible to predict what he has in store, you'd think people who've been around the block since at least Brawl would know this by now.
It's not dumb, it serves the greater purpose of having more characters to use. So what if its not tourney ready? thats why they put in their actual "PM made" characters.....theres no conflict here.
 

Inawordyes

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Okay, inspired by ChronoBound's comment above, a hypothetical: Palutena is deconfirmed for SM4SH, so she is chosen as a Clone Engine character. How would she play, who would be her base, how would she differ from said base, and what moves could be incorporated from other characters to make her her own, unique character?
 

Alfonzo Bagpipez

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Okay, inspired by ChronoBound's comment above, a hypothetical: Palutena is deconfirmed for SM4SH, so she is chosen as a Clone Engine character. How would she play, who would be her base, how would she differ from said base, and what moves could be incorporated from other characters to make her her own, unique character?
Gosh, I've been really enjoying thinking of movesets, recently. Unfortunately, I don't know enough about Kid Icarus to make one for Palutena that I'd be comfortable with. For magic users in general, a lot of people suggest Zelda for some reason. When it comes down to actual articles, though, she doesn't have a lot to take from. I'd suggest one of the Mother Brothers.
 

Chzrm3

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Sylveon confirmed for smash 4.
Man, I wish! I have my all Eevee team almost finished, and Sylveon is so awesome. : D


Gosh, I've been really enjoying thinking of movesets, recently. Unfortunately, I don't know enough about Kid Icarus to make one for Palutena that I'd be comfortable with. For magic users in general, a lot of people suggest Zelda for some reason. When it comes down to actual articles, though, she doesn't have a lot to take from. I'd suggest one of the Mother Brothers.

Wait, so they're.... brothers from another Mother? *mind blown*

If Palutena was playable, I'd like her to have a big ol' stick to whack people with. This isn't based on anything, I just think it'd be fun.
 

trojanpooh

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It's not dumb, it serves the greater purpose of having more characters to use. So what if its not tourney ready? thats why they put in their actual "PM made" characters.....theres no conflict here.

What you're essentially saying is the PMBR should only make characters that nobody likes because all the good ones are taken. That's stupid. This is a competitive mod, it's meant to be played at a competitive level. They've even gone on record saying they don't care how hard they accidentally make it for us to personally alter because PM isn't meant to be edited. Maybe using silly little PSAs can be fun for a few minutes in a casual setting, but that isn't what PM is striving for first and foremost. They actually have standards, hence why so many people want "retreads" to be done by them.
 

Solbliminal

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People are always going to have an opinion on what is and is not a good character. Like how I'm one of the only voices speaking up here about Shadow. But unlike the Pichu argument, no matter how much Shadow offers in the gameplay and Meta department people hate him. He isn't just another "Sonic". The best way to describe him is that he is Sonic's "Wolf". That would make Kunckles his Falcon and Tails his Slippy or Peppy.
 

mikeyn1gm

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What you're essentially saying is the PMBR should only make characters that nobody likes because all the good ones are taken. That's stupid. This is a competitive mod, it's meant to be played at a competitive level. They've even gone on record saying they don't care how hard they accidentally make it for us to personally alter because PM isn't meant to be edited. Maybe using silly little PSAs can be fun for a few minutes in a casual setting, but that isn't what PM is striving for first and foremost. They actually have standards, hence why so many people want "retreads" to be done by them.
I'm not essentially saying that either. Why do you tell me its a competitive mod as if I didn't know that? I guess your not understanding me since we're taking the "what I say is stupid" route again
 

Anti Guy

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The Big 3 are clearly Isaac, Ridley, and Lyn.

I think the remaining two might be Pichu and Dixie Kong. Pichu in case that icon was a character hint, and Dixie Kong considering it would be nice to see another character of the Forbidden 7 become a full character (and Dixie is easily the most popular one of them). If not Pichu, I expect a new series newcomer.

However, I am not sure if this means anything but I am pretty sure I have seen a message where Shadic called Pichu trash (which was applauded with a salvo of likes).

Just because those three are the most popular doesn't mean they'll make it in. I still think that at MOST they'll add 2 unique characters, with the rest being clones. So the most economical way to handle that would be to add Isaac as a unique, Lyn as a clone (I still think a fast Ike is the way to go), and Dark Samus instead of Ridley for Metroid (plus Dark Samus is another highly popular one).

If I were to continue like that and base it off the poll, then I think they'd skip Ganondorf/Black Shadow due to controversy, King K. Rool because of the difficulty of making him anything true to his character, use Skapon for the next unique slot (or in a worse scenario, just not even make another unique character), and then choose either Masked Man or Bowser Jr for the last clone (probably Bowser Jr. because he's a unique clone, and Masked Man isn't really much of a clone -- and if he was, then we'd have too many Ness-type characters at least compared to Bowser-type character)
 

trojanpooh

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I'm not essentially saying that either. Why do you tell me its a competitive mod as if I didn't know that? I guess your not understanding me since we're taking the "what I say is stupid" route again

You're suggesting that they focus on characters who don't already have PSAs in order to "maximize the number of characters" we have at our disposal completely neglecting the fact that anyone who plays competitively will only have access to whoever the PMBR gives us. That's stupid. I'm not saying you're stupid, I'm not saying what you say is stupid, I'm saying that this particular idea is stupid. Because it is.
 

mikeyn1gm

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Just because those three are the most popular doesn't mean they'll make it in. I still think that at MOST they'll add 2 unique characters, with the rest being clones. So the most economical way to handle that would be to add Isaac as a unique, Lyn as a clone (I still think a fast Ike is the way to go), and Dark Samus instead of Ridley for Metroid (plus Dark Samus is another highly popular one).

If I were to continue like that and base it off the poll, then I think they'd skip Ganondorf/Black Shadow due to controversy, King K. Rool because of the difficulty of making him anything true to his character, use Skapon for the next unique slot (or in a worse scenario, just not even make another unique character), and then choose either Masked Man or Bowser Jr for the last clone (probably Bowser Jr. because he's a unique clone, and Masked Man isn't really much of a clone -- and if he was, then we'd have too many Ness-type characters at least compared to Bowser-type character)
I really can't see Bowser jr. as a bowser clone. Unless we're just talking about a common small-fast bowser which isn't fitting for Jr. in my opinion. I'd see him more towards the unique side.

I definitely want to see an example of one of these clones one day...........If its as boring and non unique as Falco or like Roy who still has his own things
 

Ser Jacobian

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Alright, I know I'm waaaay late to the party here, but the one character I'm dying to see would be Fierce Deity Link. Granted, that'd put LoZ up to 5 slots, which just seems unfair, but hey, lots of clone potential there. We already have two characters who use a two-handed sword, and FD was rather silent. Seems like a lot of work for the costumes, though.

Fantasies aside, my votes are as follows:

+1
Isaac
Gannondorf
Dark Samus
Saki
Sukapon

+.5
Pichu (The unique moveset would really help his case)
Hector
Ridley (I was initially on the "too big" boat there, but c'mon, size can be changed for the sake of entertainment. And really, he's not much bigger than Bowser. He's just more... Spread out.)
Krystal (Could be really neat as a staff-and-magic based character)
Clause

-1
I'm not sure I care enough to provide a downvote. Can I just insert Sonic Tier here, since they're all effectively the same clone and moveset?
 

mikeyn1gm

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You're suggesting that they focus on characters who don't already have PSAs in order to "maximize the number of characters" we have at our disposal completely neglecting the fact that anyone who plays competitively will only have access to whoever the PMBR gives us. That's stupid. I'm not saying you're stupid, I'm not saying what you say is stupid, I'm saying that this particular idea is stupid. Because it is.
No, not just those characters who have no PSA but also those that do have it but far from completion or precision which is almost all of them honestly. There are many candidates for default PM characters for tourney play. The majority of the "focus" actually weighs more heavily on characters that are least likely to be in SSB4........which PMBR did say they're not trying to tamper with.

do you understand me now?
 

trojanpooh

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No, not those characters who have no PSA but also those that do have it but far from completion or precision. There are many candidates for default PM characters for tourney play. The majority of the "focus" actually weighs more heavily on characters that are least likely to be in SSB4........which PMBR did say they're not trying to tamper with.

Again, you're taking things that don't matter into account when deciding the roster. Project M is meant to be a standalone mod, not some workbench for you to use to create your very own Barbie Dream House.
 

mikeyn1gm

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Again, you're taking things that don't matter into account when deciding the roster. Project M is meant to be a standalone mod, not some workbench for you to use to create your very own Barbie Dream House.
wtf are you talking about?
 

mikeyn1gm

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Did the PM team mention what they did for Mewtwo? I know there was already a Mewtwo PSA out there - did they use that, or build him entirely from scratch? I feel like I remember reading he was built from scratch, but I'm not sure.

But yeah, I think the problem with most of the PSA's floating around is that while they're fun, the characters haven't been built with PM in mind. Heck, look at how long it took to get Yoshi and Samus into PM, and they were already fully completed Brawl characters with established movesets. So taking a Waluigi PSA and trying to port that into PM, combined with the inevitability that a lot of his moves would either need to be tweaked or reworked entirely, would probably be so difficult that the PMBR would be better off starting from the beginning.

And actually, let's say you built Waluigi off Wario (just hypothetically, I dunno if that makes sense). Wario is PM-ready. He's got the physics working properly, he's capable of doing all the AT's.. if you clone Wario, that entire headache is already dealt with.

So in some cases, it might be more work to use a PSA.

Not to poop on your idea, mikey!
My apologies, I didn't see your reply.

You're not taking a poop on my idea. Perhaps I'm not being explicit enough.
 

Solbliminal

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-1
I'm not sure I care enough to provide a downvote. Can I just insert Sonic Tier here, since they're all effectively the same clone and moveset?
I swear you people... I don't think a single one of you does your research on Sonic characters or even played a Sonic game that is not Genesis for that matter.

Knuckles - Glides, is relatively slow, can dig and climb walls, only shares spin dash with Sonic.

Tails- Is a mechanic, can use a wide array of self-made weapons from bombs to various mechanical / tools, can fly with his tails, only shares spin dash with Sonic.

Shadow- While being able to mirror Sonic, Shadow is more reliant on his battle prowess than his speed. He utilizes chaos emeralds, a series staple, to do various things that many of the cart cannot. He is only 2nd to Sonic when it comes to speed. He is the only character to share almost all his traits with Sonic, but doing them differently as the series progressed.

Do any of those sound like full on clones to you? The only thing they all really share in common is a single move. Spin Dash.
 

Xaranid

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Project M is a competitive hack, you'll never see any low quality fan PSAs being used in Project M tourneys. It doesn't matter how many ___ character PSAs are out there, if there isn't an official Project M one it's still worth their time. I've used fan PSAs before and they've all been laughably terrible except for Project M's Mewtwo and Roy. Hell, even Roy isn't that good if you turn items on for a sec to use his final smash.
Seriously? You've been missing out if you write off all PSAs as "laughably terrible." Some are less polished than others, but as I've mentioned earlier in the thread take a look at the Geno, Ridley, Wisp, Grey Fox, or Shadow PSAs if you think there are no good ones.
 

QQQQQQQ7777777

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I definitely want to see an example of one of these clones one day...........If its as boring and non unique as Falco or like Roy who still has his own things
If its as boring and non unique as Falco
boring and non unique
non unique
Please explain as I don`t understand how you could get to this conclusion unless you have never played Falco in a competitive environment.
 

Chzrm3

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Falco's dair alone legitimizes the entire character, imo. It's so satisfying dunking people with that, and you really don't get that same feel from Fox at all.
 

mikeyn1gm

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Please explain as I don`t understand how you could get to this conclusion unless you have never played Falco in a competitive environment.
haha.......I can see where this is going now. I suspect that people are getting their torches.

Now I will say yes, of course I've played with "Melee" Falco competitively but tell me this, What makes Falco special outside of his character specific properties (playstyle) and taunts? (And Yes, that includes his Dair Meteor Smash which was always awesome)

If somebody answers this without the stated above then I will give you 5 cookies and I'll take back what I said. =)


(Hint: When I said Roy....I meant Roy now in PM not then in Melee and there are definitely more examples in the roster)
 

Ser Jacobian

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I swear you people... I don't think a single one of you does your research on Sonic characters or even played a Sonic game that is not Genesis for that matter.

...

Do any of those sound like full on clones to you? The only thing they all really share in common is a single move. Spin Dash.
That was made in jest. By the same token, the whole of the Star Fox cast are naught but clones, Mario and Luigi are the same character, as are Roy and Ike, or Mewtwo and Lucario, yet those series have a rather large fanbase in SSB, and each have more than enough variation to be unique characters in their own right. You have both the Sonic Adventure games and Sonic Heroes to demonstrate that there's enough of a variation here to be a viable option.

Seriously though, none of these options seem outright terrible enough to downvote. I'm actually rather excited for the prospect of other Sonic characters being brought to this franchise.
 

QQQQQQQ7777777

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haha.......I can see where this is going now. I suspect that people are getting their torches.

Now I will say yes, of course I've played with "Melee" Falco competitively but tell me this, What makes Falco special outside of his character specific properties (playstyle) and taunts?

If somebody answers this without the stated above then I will give you 5 cookies and I'll take back what I said. =)


(Hint: When I said Roy....I meant Roy now in PM not then in Melee)
Falco's dair alone legitimizes the entire character, imo. It's so satisfying dunking people with that, and you really don't get that same feel from Fox at all.
give him 5 cookies this instant! Also, What makes Mario special outside of his playstyle? What makes Kirby special outside of his playstyle? A CHARACTER`S PLAYSTYLE IS WHAT MAKES ANY FIGHTING GAME CHARACTER SPECIAL! And don`t say "Mario has different moves" because what are those moves there for? TO GIVE HIM A PLAYSTYLE!
 

Shin F.

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haha.......I can see where this is going now. I suspect that people are getting their torches.

Now I will say yes, of course I've played with "Melee" Falco competitively but tell me this, What makes Falco special outside of his character specific properties (playstyle) and taunts?

If somebody answers this without the stated above then I will give you 5 cookies and I'll take back what I said. =)


(Hint: When I said Roy....I meant Roy now in PM not then in Melee)

His feathers.

In case you didn't realize, the very fact that his playstyle is different is enough. Just because his moves are aesthetically the same doesn't mean anything to Project M. If that mattered, then they would have kept his Reflector Kick.

What makes Mario special? Or Link? Or Samus? Or anyone in the game? Their moves are different, but it's all there to give the characters their own playstyle.

Edit: Ninja'd.
 
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