Ness Video Thread: under new management

[Jtails]

Hi Uffe =] recognize my name now?

Ness vs Diddy Kong
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dUBqC9H9NsE

2nd match of the Set. VS Toon link. gotta wait a while before the second match comes..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dcf2uggSQDo

tips would be greatly appreciated!

 

[xoxokev]

wow Jtails nice

way to stay in the game

 

[Masky]

Hi Uffe =] recognize my name now?

Ness vs Diddy Kong
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dUBqC9H9NsE

2nd match of the Set. VS Toon link. gotta wait a while before the second match comes..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dcf2uggSQDo

tips would be greatly appreciated!

Best video of Ness using Diddy's bananas I've seen so far. Personally I think Ness feels really clunky against Diddy Kong with the bananas

 

[Asa]

Maybe fthrow instead of dthrow? very good use of the nanners. lol at white flag playing in the background btw.

 

[ViceGrip]

Very good matches. Vs the toon link I would suggest a LOT more use of pk fire, I didnt hear Ness say a single pk fire, i's ness's best way of racking up damage besides ariels.
You have a very quick Ness, awesome.

 

[Masky]

Very good matches. Vs the toon link I would suggest a LOT more use of pk fire, I didnt hear Ness say a single pk fire, i's ness's best way of racking up damage besides ariels.
You have a very quick Ness, awesome.

This is a joke, right? PK Fire is a terrible move except on Bowser

 

[AvariceX]

This is a joke, right? PK Fire is an amazing move except on characters who can actually punish it quickly like Snake (dash attack) and MK (anything)

Fixed for you.

 

[EdreesesPieces]

If you angle PK fire down at snake from the air, he will eat it way more often than when you do it on the ground. He doesn't really run around that much, if you are in the air he's usually going to stay stationary so it'll surprise him.

 

[Green-Machine]

Pk fire is always a good move except for on the really light chars like pika

 

[Earthbound360]

This is a joke, right? PK Fire is a terrible move except on Bowser

*pivot PKFs Masky's Pikachu*

 

[Gea]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vfQtFwhGy8

:D

 

[AvariceX]

If you angle PK fire down at snake from the air, he will eat it way more often than when you do it on the ground. He doesn't really run around that much, if you are in the air he's usually going to stay stationary so it'll surprise him.

Most of my Snake experience is vs Ally. I've played him twice in tourney + a money match and friendlies; I've only ever landed one PK-Fire on him, and usually use it from the air (I mix it up a bit though). He pretty much always shields it and punishes with dash attack.

 

[Masky]

Fixed for you.

Please don't ruin my posts

everyone in the game can just walk up to you as soon as they hear "PK fire", powershield the bolt, then hit you with something. and even if you get by it most of the cast (snake included) can instantly DI out of it if it's a grounded PK fire. if it's an aerial pk fire they can still powershield it as soon as they hear it or just roll behind you when you're defenseless using the attack. pk fire is just a bad move and is only useful on noobs... actually PK fire has one single legit use and that's using it when someone's hanging on the ledge and trying to stay there

 

[ColinJF]

Pk fire is pretty mediocre, but there are a number of cases where it's worth using. It's not one of Ness's better moves though.

 

[Asa]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6eYjPxAI7v8&feature=channel

found it today. I didn't see the results posted in the character rankings list, or any results in the tourney section. But it's a good vid.

Edit: Here are the results. Timotee got 1st
http://nvgaonline.com/Forums/index.php?showtopic=6914

 

[Earthbound360]

If anyone thinks PK Fire is a bad move, I want to play them. Specially you Masky *glares with my eerie eyes*

DIing out of PKF has a few good options. Roll out, DI down and spotdodge, or jump out. All are easily punishable. ROlling can be dealt with using the usmash or dash attack. Spotdodges are done in by the usmash, and jumping out is very easy to wreck with aerials.

If you are being punished for PKF, you are obviously using it very very badly. I hardly ever get punished for it, even when powershielded. As long as you pivot and firedash, you'll always be maintaining a safe distance. If you PK Jump, you get massive range on it. I hear people complain about being punished for it all the time. They're doing it all wrong. If you lag cancel with an airdodge and spotdodge immediately after, it can be difficult to counter. Possible, but difficult for many.

People have to realize that PKF is still a projectile and can be used at moderate ranges from Ness to handle opponents with good range. You CAN get attacks out of the PK Fire pillar if you play smart with it. If you're gonna be the basic Ness who always grabs or bats the PKF, of course you will think PKF is bad; you're using it wrong. It's like trying to use bananas to camp instead of control the stage.

 

[EdreesesPieces]

YOu can easily land a PK fire on good players by predicting their air dodges. I PK fire into the place they will land after their air dodge. The move is a prediction move. The better you are at predicting your opponent, the more PK fires you will land. Also it keeps opponents earnest. If Ally is always able to dodge PK fire, that means there is a certain zone he isn't entering because he wants to avoid the move. That increases your chances of hitting him with something else because you know where he ISN"T going to place himself.

 

[Masky]

If anyone thinks PK Fire is a bad move, I want to play them. Specially you Masky *glares with my eerie eyes*

DIing out of PKF has a few good options. Roll out, DI down and spotdodge, or jump out. All are easily punishable. ROlling can be dealt with using the usmash or dash attack. Spotdodges are done in by the usmash, and jumping out is very easy to wreck with aerials.

If you are being punished for PKF, you are obviously using it very very badly. I hardly ever get punished for it, even when powershielded. As long as you pivot and firedash, you'll always be maintaining a safe distance. If you PK Jump, you get massive range on it. I hear people complain about being punished for it all the time. They're doing it all wrong. If you lag cancel with an airdodge and spotdodge immediately after, it can be difficult to counter. Possible, but difficult for many.

People have to realize that PKF is still a projectile and can be used at moderate ranges from Ness to handle opponents with good range. You CAN get attacks out of the PK Fire pillar if you play smart with it. If you're gonna be the basic Ness who always grabs or bats the PKF, of course you will think PKF is bad; you're using it wrong. It's like trying to use bananas to camp instead of control the stage.

The enemy can DI out of PK Fire before you even finish the animation for using it so it's not practical to chase them. I didn't say PK Fire is useless it's just a bad move.

even though pk fire's a bad move most people don't know how to di out of it and are dumb so one of the most frequent things I did with Ness when I used him was hit with dair -> land and run away -> pk pivot fire as they land -> grab dthrow into fire -> whatever. But PK Fire wouldn't work on any good player who knows what to do about it.

 

[ViceGrip]

lulz. I play plenty of great people and pk fire is amazing, I agree w/ earthbound 360 and edrees, you have to pivot it more and use it as a spacing tool. Some charraters can di out of it but by far and large they are stuck in it long enough (or they decide to shield) for you to get a grab. Also if they di out of it it still puts you in an advantageous situation. That's like 23% right there just from a fire to grab. And I wasn't joking, fire is great, it's one of Ness's best ways of racking up damage when used correctly. If someone is continuously punishing u 4 it that means they are looking out 4 it and that's a good thing because it's one more thing they have to think about and so that gives you more options to surprise them w/. It's kind of like if you're always looking for a samus to shoot her charge shot so u can absorb it you're most likely going to make some mistakes while waiting 4 it because you're so intent on reacting when it happens. But yea, if you don't want to take our advice and try and use pk fire more that's your choice, we're just here to offer suggestions to help improve your game but don't assume it only works on newbs-because it works on everyone in some manner. I hit TKD (one of the best mk's in the nation) plenty of times w/ it in crew battles on saturday. Pivoting it and using it from the air and using it where they are going to be (like edrees said) are the primary uses 4 it. If it's not working in a certain battle then avoid using it, simple as that, but the opponent still has to be wary of it unless you completely avoid using it like in that TL battle.

 

[Earthbound360]

Well, by saying something's a bad move, it's usually assumed it's near useless >_>

Even if Ness' PKF didnt burn at all, it should still be used as a spacing tool. It's pretty much all he's got at a moderate range unless you really wanna get risky with PKT.

 

[Masky]

..........

 

[ViceGrip]

Eh, I guess we just have a difference of opinion. And no, meta knight cannot get out b4 a grab most of the time, it just doesn't happen for him in particular, His only choices are to try and di out b4 u grab him (almost impossible at lower percents) shield (which gets him grabbed) or powershield/stepdodge over and over while in the flames (which will still get them either grabbed or punished w/ another move). There are plenty of characters above E tier that usually cannot get out in time to avoid at least a grab if you hit them at low enough percent. people know to di out lol, Ness isn't THAT obscure and people aren't idiots, it's just 4 sum characters they simply cannot di in time. And i hadn't visited this thread 4 awhile so i thought those were ur vids, but they're jtails, my bad. Saying pk fire is useless besides spacing and shooting sumone hanging on the edge is just plain wrong, sorry. Spacing is it's best use perhaps but there's plenty of other uses that have already been mentioned. Plus what's the big deal if they di out of it? Unless they are kirby they are still going to take a guaranteed 6-10% damage which isn't bad as well as putting them in the air which is the best place they can be for Ness.

 

[Levitas]

PK fire is terrible against anyone who can DI out of it. Not only can they get out before the grab, the can get out and hit you as you're ending your lag. To top this off, it's slow to come out, moves slow, has limited range, and has lots of lag.

 

[Gaussis]

Eh, if you think PK Fire is terrible, use it with low expectations. That way, the mentality rewards you when your opponent falls prey to any followup. It's not downright terrible though, just below average.

 

[Earthbound360]

Not only can they get out before the grab, the can get out and hit you as you're ending your lag.

Something's seriously wrong with your PKF.

 

[thesage]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6eYjPxAI7v8&feature=channel

found it today. I didn't see the results posted in the character rankings list, or any results in the tourney section. But it's a good vid.

Edit: Here are the results. Timotee got 1st
http://nvgaonline.com/Forums/index.php?showtopic=6914

Before we get off topic and discuss a semi ok move that most people don't really know how to use properly and ***** bad players, let me comment on this vids. While I have only seen half of this match I have to highly recommend Timotee's playstyle. Not only do I remember him posting on the melee boards and being generally awesome, but he's a pretty smart player. His and mine playstyles are almost exactly the same (but I think I'm better, cuz I'm like that /House mode). I use up-smash and running attack a little more, but that's when I feel risky. If only I lived in a different region, then I'd win tournaments lol X_X

Pk fire can be di'd out of right when it hits somebody. It's not useless though. It does do 3 percent at least and lets you **** people who don't know what to do against it. You also can punish what they do to get out of it if you're good at predicting. It also gets rid of some annoying projectiles.

Don't get me wrong I think pk fire is a bad move (I've known this was true since a Marth countered me out of it a week into brawl), this doesn't stop it from being a good move sometimes. You definitely should not make your playstyle rely on it though. It's a situational move, at best. It's similar to jigglypuff's rollout in melee in terms of use.

Edit: I watched some more footage, it seems Timotee isn't that great at predicting what the other person is going to do. If he ever reads this, I hope he gets what I mean. Our playstyles aren't as similar as I thought they once were, but still he's pretty good.

 

[Levitas]

Something's seriously wrong with your PKF.

scotu's broken.

 

[Gaussis]

SCOTU DI's towards you after PK Fire, right? Otherwise, I don't see how this happens. In case anyone else doesn't know, it's not the pillar the opponent SDI's out of, it's the bolt. For some reason, SDI'ing to the side just pops the opponent to the side without ever getting caught in the pillar. Of course this requires the opponent to do this on reaction and it isn't very hard considering how long it takes. However, that's where the pivot comes in. Many opponents can't figure out if PK Fire is going to be used out of it and plays a general mindgame on them. Or you could use it in the air, you know. It's still below average IMO though.

 

[EdreesesPieces]

Personally I say what's wrong with relying on stategies that rely on your opponent not knowing the matchup? If you realize they don't know the matchup (which is 90% of smashers don't know how to play ness) then abuse it to hell, it WILL help you and increase you placements at tournaments, gauranteed. Just don't use it against people who know it. To ignore an entire move because a few people know how to deal with it is a huge mistake, as this move is incredibllyy useful against most (even really good) smashers if they aren't used to playing ness a lot.

 

[Ref]

Personally I say what's wrong with relying on stategies that rely on your opponent not knowing the matchup? If you realize they don't know the matchup (which is 90% of smashers don't know how to play ness) then abuse it to hell, it WILL help you and increase you placements at tournaments, gauranteed. Just don't use it against people who know it. To ignore an entire move because a few people know how to deal with it is a huge mistake, as this move is incredibllyy useful against most (even really good) smashers if they aren't used to playing ness a lot.

Agreed. Pk fire is a decent move and it's excellent for spacing you just need to pivot it like crazy.

There is nothing wrong about taking advantage of inexperience, you just have to be able to play good without relying on them.

People can DI out of pk fire easily, or at least some that I play, but I can manage just as well with a bit of work.

I'm also pretty sure pk fire is kind of frustrating at times to quite a bit of players. Even if they can DI out easily.

I sometimes even use it if they DI because it's a really good spacing tool and 6% is sometimes the difference between a back throw killing and not killing.

So all in all

PK fire: A good spacing tool, use it as so, follow up if you can. If you can't use it for spacing still. Space it almost perfectly and it can shield stab as well.

 

[Levitas]

Scotu's been hit by the bolt in melee, SDI'd out, and multishine CLANKED EVERY hit of the pk fire before in a game w/ me, lol.

Personally I say what's wrong with relying on stategies that rely on your opponent not knowing the matchup? If you realize they don't know the matchup (which is 90% of smashers don't know how to play ness) then abuse it to hell, it WILL help you and increase you placements at tournaments, gauranteed. Just don't use it against people who know it. To ignore an entire move because a few people know how to deal with it is a huge mistake, as this move is incredibllyy useful against most (even really good) smashers if they aren't used to playing ness a lot.

There's no problem with using strats that work on your opponent. I'd say a majority of this game is abusing your opponent's ignorance on how to deal with certain strats, and that only dies down once you get to the last few matches in a tournament.

That said, there is such a thing as a bad move that people don't know how to deal with. PK fire is a bad move. It's funny that a large portion of the smash community doesn't know how to deal with a move as bad as it.

 

[Neon Ness]

Scotu's been hit by the bolt in melee, SDI'd out, and multishine CLANKED EVERY hit of the pk fire before in a game w/ me, lol.

I demand videos. NAO.

Also, this thread is turning into a discussion on the usefulness of fire. Ness seems to have quite a few moves that the Ness Community is divided over how useful they are, like this, PK Flash, and up throw... Odd.

 

[ViceGrip]

How about dtilt next? i find it almost useless except for doing a single dtilt trip to a guaranteed bat. j/k, this is the video thread we should talk about...videos?

 

[Earthbound360]

BTW thesage, at minimum fresh, PKF does 6%.

 

[Browny]

hay guise... should i post some of my ness vids here? I dont really like making new threads just to post a few videos (why are video compilation threads made in the first place lol) but would I get much feedback if I put them here? Looks like theres more of a general ness discussion going on atm :/ I mained ness in 64 and melee so they wont be scrub vids

 

[Neon Ness]

Oh snap, it's the djbrowny.

Everyone else seems obssessed with fire right now, so yeah, just make a new thread, I guess. Others have made critique threads before, so it should be fine.

 

[thesage]

How about dtilt next? i find it almost useless except for doing a single dtilt trip to a guaranteed bat. j/k, this is the video thread we should talk about...videos?

d-tilt is used as a followup to jab lock for the d-tilt lock. NOTHING MORE. Oh and camping against bad sonics lol.

Nobody commented on my comments about timotee's vids lol.

 

[Earthbound360]

Shouldnt this be taking place in the moveset discussion?

Dtilt for dtilt lock, a normal jab locks at higher percents (usually beyond 100% for most characters), a follow up after a jab lock to a bat, and the occasional trip to my pimp cane combo. Oh and Sonic for lulz.

 

[Gaussis]

Roflcopter.

Ness threads are really duplicate threads of each other if you take a look around. Vid thread becomes moveset discussion, moveset becomes reliability and Ike > Ness discussion, and MK > Ness vs MK >> Marth thread becomes a matchup topic between Ness, MK, G&W, and Sonic receives honorable mention.

 

[thesage]

Hey could you guys comment one what I need to do to improve my Ness?

http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/433528