Ness is out: Come and help those in denial...

[Meta_Sonic64]

Lucas does not deconfirm/confirm Ness.

Nobody can be confirmed until an official update from the Dojo!

Really? E 4 All says hi

 

[Hippochinfat]

but srsly wut sakuray wuz trying 2 say wuz dat ness is en and s0 is lucaz. but u c sinc da guy hoo trnadlete teh merican dojo is liek sum dum wite guy eh dat men he dun no jpanze and he basicry gess wut skurai sed u no.

 

[Flaming_Wuzzle]

Lucas does not deconfirm/confirm Ness.

Agreed.

Nobody can be confirmed until an official update from the Dojo!

Disagreed. Some sort of official medium (such as the demos at Jumpfesta and E 4 All), yes, but not just the Dojo.

but srsly wut sakuray wuz trying 2 say wuz dat ness is en and s0 is lucaz. but u c sinc da guy hoo trnadlete teh merican dojo is liek sum dum wite guy eh dat men he dun no jpanze and he basicry gess wut skurai sed u no.

...Christ, that must have made you lose a few IQ points from typing that. Actually, I think it made me lose a few IQ points just from reading that.

...I think I'm gonna go watch an American Pie movie now.

 

[Ginger9001]

...I think I'm gonna go watch an American Pie movie now.

To lose more IQ points? xD

 

[SuperShrine]

We don´t know if Lucas will replace Ness, so we don´t have to fight. We can´t just judged each other( Lucas and Ness)

"Ness will be in because Lucas has ugly jimmy neutron hair and is an original 12" ...

For justice, I think that both have to be in Brawl; because Ness, for being since the first smash; and Lucas, for be a newcomer.

I hope the two will be there; I´m not against anybody.

And, for some people, I have to say that, when I say "I know it will be here", or something like that, I´m just trying to show that I believe in my believes; I´m not a fortune teller; sorry if I express it in the wrong way...

C´mon everybody, there´s still hope!

 

[SuperShrine]

We don´t know if Lucas will replace Ness, so we don´t have to fight. We can´t just judged each other( Lucas and Ness)

"Ness will be in because Lucas has ugly jimmy neutron hair and is an original 12"

For justice, I think that both have to be in Brawl; because Ness, for being since the first smash; and Lucas, for be a newcomer.

I hope the two will be there; I´m not against anybody.

And, for some people, I have to say that, when I say "I know it will be here", or something like that, I´m just trying to show that I believe in my believes; I´m not a fortune teller; sorry if I express it in the wrong way...

C´mon everybody, there´s still hope!

 

[adumbrodeus]

Actually when someone says something like "Ness is out because Lucas is more important" thats being biased and trolling.. a statement like that with a lack of backup information would start flaming which is what trolls like.

Which they were trying to do.... provide back-up information and logic.




Irreguardless, that's not correct, you're attempting to redefine trolling to something so loose that it can cover basically anything.

That is an example of an unsupported argument, a pattern of which can indicate trolling in particular circumstances, but it is not an example of trolling in and of itself.

or on the flip side if someone says "Ness will be in because Lucas has ugly jimmy neutron hair and is an original 12" something like this is trolling.

Again, an unsupported argument.

While I admit that people will often say things logical, its when they become very repetitive with what they are saying that they become trollish. For example if I say Ness still has a chance because he has a different moveset then Lucas, then someone replies by saying their moveset is not very different..

Rehashing points slightly edited is common with internet debates because they tend to draw in a lot of people meaning that fine distinctions can be made, that's not inherently trollish.

Nor is redundancy in the arguments.


Something trollish is repeatedly making unsupported arguments, because it seems like the actions a troll would make. This is NEVER to be confused with actually being a troll, since it can be merely stupidity or laziness.

A troll is identified by repeatedly making unsupported arguments in flashpoint topics which ultimately promote bad feeling, and even then there's a high standard to avoid false positives.


YOU CANNOT IDENTIFY A TROLL BASED ON A SINGLE THREAD! EVER!

while this is true.. I could also point out that Sakurai said they were in the same family of PK users which could insinuate a commonness between them, then someone will go and say "they are to similar Ness= out", they are just repeating themselves and trolling to start flaming.

It's repeated primarily because you're not making any contrary LOGICAL arguments.

Weakness on the part of the opponent does not a troll make.

Even so, you cannot identify a troll based on one thread and repition does not identify trolling anyway.

I understand what you are saying, but there are definitely instances where "troll" should be used.

And this is DEFINATELY not one of them.


Now stop trying to use Red herrings to distract from the debate.

 

[PrettyGoodYear]

I agree with adumbrodeus wholeheartedly: DeuceBlade is not clear on the definition of the word troll.

 

[vesperview]

For justice, I think that both have to be in Brawl; because Ness, for being since the first smash; and Lucas, for be a newcomer.

For justice? Since when is this game based around justice? Ness doesn't have to stay to keep the original twelve intact, that's one of the worst reasons for him to stay.

 

[SuperShrine]

I´m saying for justice, because Ness has been in the smash series since the first, no mather
if he has had to be or not; he was there and for that he has to be in Brawl. He was in the first, in the second, so everybody expected that he would be in Brawl. In the case of Lucas, I know that he was planed to be in the first one; but he wasn´t there; althought I´m not against him; if Sakurai want him inside, c´mon let´do it; I´m not against that; I´m just saying that I´m against that idea of Lucas replacing Ness; I´d like to see both there. But this is not the point of this topic; I´m not here to fight, I´m just here to support Ness fans...

Never surrender in battle!

 

[parrothead]

Could this mean that Ness still has a good chance at appearing in SSBB?

 

[Thrillhouse-vh.]

Could this mean that Ness still has a good chance at appearing in SSBB?

Only if they completely remake Ness. Seeing how lazy they were creating a B move set for Lucas, I doubt it.

 

[Ryudo_Sama]

Since they put Lucas on Onett, makes me think that it's insured Ness is replaced.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

I'd still rather have Claus in either way

 

[vesperview]

I don't think that stage makes sense if Ness is not in, so I think he is going to be in.

 

[Pluvia's other account]

I'd still rather have Claus in either way

Agreed.

 

[Eldezar]

They dont need to remake ness the only similarities are the B moves, thats all, and they are still different enough.

I think this can go either way in terms of Ness support though. Lucas's game was not in Onett, so maybe Ness is still in because of that fact, or since they have music that is from a rep that isnt a character, maybe they are doing that with stages that rep a game but dont have a corresponding character. Not including AC stage cause it has not been confirmed there is an AC character.

And now begins an all new set of contradictions.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

They dont need to remake ness the only similarities are the B moves, thats all, and they are still different enough.

I think this can go either way in terms of Ness support though. Lucas's game was not in Onett, so maybe Ness is still in because of that fact, or since they have music that is from a rep that isnt a character, maybe they are doing that with stages that rep a game but dont have a corresponding character. Not including AC stage cause it has not been confirmed there is an AC character.

Enough of the A moves are similar too...

 

[Eldezar]

Do we need to bring up the fact that he said very specifically that the A moves are quite different, meaning not similar, again.

 

[Fatmanonice]

I'd still rather have Claus in either way

Agreed. Lucas is basically a blond version of Ness as it is and they would fill the exact same role if they were both added.

 

[error_alt_delete]

I don't think that stage makes sense if Ness is not in, so I think he is going to be in.

1.it was a past stage, so it can come back with/without ness.
2.dont you remember that a stage or music of one series can come into brawl without character representation? also isnt lucas from the same series anyways?

3.didnt you used to be one of the "ness is out"people before?

 

[AsbestosBlatant]

@Error_Alt_Delete: It seems you are in error.

Sakurai never said anything about stages from non-represented games, only music.

"Of course, there is no X stage in Super Smash Bros. Brawl, but this time, the songs in Smash Bros. aren’t limited only to those series represented by characters and stages. We’ve pulled some that are from completely unrelated games."

And I quoted.

 

[vesperview]

1.it was a past stage, so it can come back with/without ness.

Hardly, it is Ness's stage.

2.dont you remember that a stage or music of one series can come into brawl without character representation?

That has never been stated, is just assumed out of the DS icon.

also isnt lucas from the same series anyways?

Oh, I'm sorry, I must've missed the part where Lucas goes to Onett in Mother 3.[/sarcasm]

3.didnt you used to be one of the "ness is out"people before?

I didn't say I wanted him back, but to deny that his chances have been raised out of this update would be stupid.

Though I agree with Ryudo_Sama, putting Lucas in that particular picture doesn't really help Ness either.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Agreed. Lucas is basically a blond version of Ness as it is and they would fill the exact same role if they were both added.

I Second Fatmanonice's thought.

I didn't say I wanted him back, but to deny that his chances have been raised out of this update would be stupid.

Not exactally, It does help him a bit but we know a LOT Of past stages are returning and some we have already (Hyrule temple.) And the MOTHER Ones were to unique to not return, Now if he's going to do things like have a Starfox 64 stage (Which he does currently.) With the new fox and Hyrule temple with OOT Link (Should be noted that OOT Zelda is an alt.) If anything then it makes him a lot more likely for an ALT, But him being back is still possible (Not like we really need that through.

 

[vesperview]

Hyrule Temple wasn't exactly an OoT stage, but I don't know, I'm giving Ness a 50/50, but I really hope he doesn't return in favor of Claus.

 

[Williampettysan]

Do we need to bring up the fact that he said very specifically that the A moves are quite different, meaning not similar, again.

Do I have to bring up Lucas used a baseball bat in the SSE movie...

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Hyrule Temple wasn't exactly an OoT stage, but I don't know, I'm giving Ness a 50/50, but I really hope he doesn't return in favor of Claus.

Ok, We still have the starfox one i refered to and Rainbow ride is from Starfox 64, We have others like Great bay and all; The point is is that he is filling them because they are memorable stages but sticking with newcomer stages to represent there most recent title (Lucas and Pork city, Mario and Sunshine [The probable Galaxy stage] LOZ And Eldin bridge; Etc.) I Mean it was unavoidable that one MOTHER Past stage was going to come back, If it was a newcomer stage then i would freak out.

And i'm saying around 10-20, Hopefully he doesen't, Ness = Pointless to add.

 

[Xanderous]

Do I have to bring up Lucas used a baseball bat in the SSE movie...

*Stick

He used a stick.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

*Stick

He used a stick.

It was a bat.

<_<
>_>!

 

[Xanderous]

It was a bat.

<_<
>_>!

Yeah, probably.

 

[vesperview]

No, it was a stick, you can see it has leaves on some of the screenshots.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

No, it was a stick, you can see it has leaves on some of the screenshots.

It still works the same way pretty much so who cares ?

 

[Croco]

Hyrule Temple wasn't exactly an OoT stage, but I don't know, I'm giving Ness a 50/50, but I really hope he doesn't return in favor of Claus.

Yep Hyrule Temple is actually a Zelda II : Adventures of Link themed stage.

Anyway.. I will also give Ness a 50/50 chance..
There isn't any reasons to come to conclusions yet that he is in or not.

 

[DeuceBlade]

I haven't been in this thread in a while. Hmm... Onett

 

[Masque]

Basically, regardless of whether or not Ness truly IS in Brawl, I just don't want him to be because I want to keep Claus's chances of getting on the playable roster as high as they can be.

Although thethirdkoopa brought up a good point in the Claus thread: the only MOTHER 2 / EarthBound representation that Brawl has seen so far has been Onett--a rehashed stage. At least they didn't take pains to create a new one.

 

[Meta_Sonic64]

Why do people constantly think stages of the series means a character will comeback or raises chances of a character?

 

[DeuceBlade]

Why do people constantly think stages of the series means a character will comeback or raises chances of a character?

In the screen shot, they show Lucas in Onett. I think Sakurai could either be foreshadowing something there, or Saying Lucas is the new Ness. lol

 

[error_alt_delete]

*Stick

He used a stick.

It was a bat.

<_<
>_>!

does it matter that much?

It still works the same way pretty much so who cares ?

exactly

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Basically, regardless of whether or not Ness truly IS in Brawl, I just don't want him to be because I want to keep Claus's chances of getting on the playable roster as high as they can be.

Although thethirdkoopa brought up a good point in the Claus thread: the only MOTHER 2 / EarthBound representation that Brawl has seen so far has been Onett--a rehashed stage. At least they didn't take pains to create a new one.

My point exactally; And wish past stages then they could care less about time lines since they said they only wanted to bring back memorable ones.

The stage is still nice through and lucas seems like the new ness at this point, But i don't really mind since they are virtually the same.

 

[Meta_Sonic64]

In the screen shot, they show Lucas in Onett. I think Sakurai could either be foreshadowing something there, or Saying Lucas is the new Ness. lol

Sakurai and his subtleness