Ness and the Grab Release

[-LzR-]

Zard cannot GR regrab like Marth can.

 

[Nido]

Yes he can

 

[Luco]

Yea Lucas goes further away from the GR in many cases which is why Ness often gets destroyed by the CG where with Lucas it's often better to just throw him.

 

[-LzR-]

Yes he can

I used to think he could, but I think Reflex said it only works if the Ness is doing it wrong and that a Dtilt is the only GR combo.

 

[Jamwa]

I used to think he could, but I think Reflex said it only works if the Ness is doing it wrong and that a Dtilt is the only GR combo.

Maybe if the Ness DI's away when he is released, but I always thought it was legit - even on Lucas

 

[1PokeMastr]

I'd really like to know what you're smoking.

- D3 Can not Air release CG Ness, he's too high up.
- Falco can boost grab/ dash attack/ F-Tilt Ness after a ground release as well.
- Gaw does not get an Fsmash on Ness. You have enough time to Run/ Roll/ Spot dodge.
- Bowser does NOT get an Fsmash on Ness either. Bowser's Fsmash is frame 26, and he only has a 21 frame advantage. Ness has enough time to roll away.
- Pikachu gets a Hyphen Usmash on Ness from a Ground release.
- TLink's Usmash hitbox is too small for it to hit Ness from an Air release.
- Captain Falcon CAN NOT Air release -> Dash Grab Ness. He can GROUND RELEASE Dash Grab and Dash Attack, but that's it.
- Jigglypuff can Dash Attack Ness from a Ground release.
- Mario and Zelda CAN NOT Fsmash Ness out of a Ground release. ( You can block BOTH of them ).
- Zss can Dash Attack Ness.
- Luigi's Dash Speed is WAY too slow to get a Fair/ Nair/ Uair on Ness.
- Dk can Cargo release into.. Dash Attack, F-Tilt, D-Tilt, Jab, U-Tilt, Dsmash.
- Ganondorf can't Fair Ness out of an air release.
- TLink can not Fair Ness out of an air release.
- Olimar can't Fair the air release.
- Fox gets Fair/ Dair/ Nair/ Shine out of an Air release on Ness. However, No Up Smash.
- Yoshi does not get a Usmash on Ness. Ness can jump away to avoid it.
Get your information right.


I'll be back later for more corrections, I have to get ready for school.

 

[Jamwa]

@1PokeMastr
do you main/play Ness?
just curious as you seem to know a lot :]

 

[1PokeMastr]

Nope.
I just know a truck tonne about Brawl :3

:3 :3 :3

 

[P.I.E.]

Yeah I beat this guy who switched to Marth because I switched to Ness and he tried to deathgrab me but I escaped it and only took like 15%
Then again it was on Brinstar. XD

Well you CAN escape if they don't time pummels or regrab correctly... lol.

List of things to ensure grab releases don't make you cry:
make sure you make yourself release as far as possible upon every release (I'm not too sure when it's DI or button mashing, but I dual stick to do both lol.)

If someone's grabby for a grab release, play on a platform or near the edge.

If you're gonna read a screw up, spot dodge.... Cuz rolling doesn't come out as fast, i.e. less chance of escape o.o

Of course those may not be the only options, but those are what I've been using, lol. Hope it helps

 

[Luco]

Also mash jump and hope you get out in between pummels (I think, or maybe it's random) to have a greater chance of an air release. ^_^

 

[yoshi8984]

I thought rotating control stick and flicking C-Stick makes Ness slide the maimum distance possible and helps him escape the quickest?

Also I think holding jump only makes you air release if the character isn't pummeling and Ness' feet aren't above the ground.

 

[P.I.E.]

nononono because he's off the ground he'll almost always air release if nothing happens o.o jump buttons dont got nothing to do with it in marfs case iirc

 

[Jamwa]

nononono because he's off the ground he'll almost always air release if nothing happens o.o jump buttons dont got nothing to do with it in marfs case iirc

spamming jump will make you air release if he is not jabbing and your feet are on/off the ground, so spamming jump is good against other characters

 

[Luco]

All I know is I air release far more often from the CPU marth when i'm either rotating the stick or mashing jump lol. Dunno which works better hehe.

And you can def. air release when your feet are on the ground.

 

[yoshi8984]

I try to rotate control stick, flick C-Stick and try to mash X all at the same time xD
Also, I don't think CPUs pummel fast enough. Just saying.

 

[Luco]

I try to rotate control stick, flick C-Stick and try to mash X all at the same time xD
Also, I don't think CPUs pummel fast enough. Just saying.

Oh meh, they're still scary-ish as a CPU for Ness, you have to do some spammy ranged tricks and even then they usually just PS after a while and do a bunch of strings that gives you 60%.

CPU Marth is silly. CPU EVERYONE (except for a few) is silly.

 

[Nido]

A CPU Marth GR me into Dsmash after doing the regrab 5 times, they learn I say

CPU Marth is easier than CPU Zelda lvl 7, they're EVIL!!!!!

Peach is hardest CPU

 

[Myollnir]

Maybe if the Ness DI's away when he is released, but I always thought it was legit - even on Lucas

Yeah it is, but not on Lucas. He can dashgrab both though. Ness cannot DI at all since his feet touch the ground. And if you get grabbed in the air, your feet won't touch the ground but you'll release closer to Zard so even with DI you can get regrabbed.

Zard can also air release + turnaround, jump B-air. But F-air puts you in a situation where you can't recover so I don't think it's useful to mention it.

Anyway, thanks for this guide, it's really helpful. Good work

Oh, one more thing : do Ness and Lucas also suffer an additional 10 frames lag when air released?

 

[Luco]

A CPU Marth GR me into Dsmash after doing the regrab 5 times, they learn I say

CPU Marth is easier than CPU Zelda lvl 7, they're EVIL!!!!!

Peach is hardest CPU

Peach is hard but personally I find Ness to be perhaps, one of, if not the best CPUs there is.

And I am totally supportful of that CPUs learn and there is so much evidence to back that up without resorting to code.

 

[Nido]

Yes and it's just as annoying

Luco ninja'd me so hard
Ness is easy: GR CG to ledge > Fthrow > Fair > Fair > Magnet absorb > OoM Jump to stage. Rinse and repeat

 

[Myollnir]

So, do you know the frame advantage for air releasing Ness/Lucas?

 

[Nido]

No, I assume it's 10 disadvantage for Ness idk for Lucas

I've been up 136% in a friendly last stocks game 3 before vs MK and because of the air release > Uair he used the string to nado and won >.<

 

[Myollnir]

No it's not 10 frames. With a 10 frame advantage, Marth couldn't even N-air you. :/

 

[Nido]

Well all I know is it's there and I hate it

 

[Myollnir]

I asked you this because I found that with Ivysaur, you can dash + jump canceled sweetspot UpB out of an air release and since UpB is frame 22, I'm not sure if it's guaranteed...

Well thanks anyway.

 

[Nido]

If that is guaranteed it makes up for not being able to regrab...

And I thought PKMN Trainer could be a -1

 

[Myollnir]

I don't think it's guaranteed. :/

But I don't see how a MU where Squirtle and Zard can CG you across the stage and then air release to F-air + edgeguard (at like 70+% you just can't recover from Zard's F-air without UpB [-> guaranteed spike]) can be -1, especially since both have an AMAZING grab range. And we can pretty much decide not to use Ivy at all. But this is not a MU thread so nvm.

I'd really like to see the air releases frame data.

 

[Nido]

PK Fiyah OHKO Ivy
PK Thundah 2 OHKO Zard & Squirtle
PK Thundah 1 crit OHKO

+5 for Ness

 

[yoshi8984]

Everyone has a 50 frame air release, except for Jiggs who has 49 lol

Also, PKT2/PK Flash OHKOs Zard and Squirtle XD

 

[Nido]

Yosh is back :O
I missed you

 

[Myollnir]

Everyone has a 50 frame air release, except for Jiggs who has 49 lol

Also, PKT2/PK Flash OHKOs Zard and Squirtle XD

Okay you're right, now I remember Jiggs being 49. And the character who releases has a 30 lag frames (Bow = 20) right?

And lol at the OHKO, PK Thunder too strong :o

 

[yoshi8984]

Well i'm on my Wii internet channel lol
Since laptop charger broke, i had to use PC but siblings hog it ALL THE TIME -___-

And yep, grabber can act on frame 30 (except for Bowser)

 

[Luco]

Yes and it's just as annoying

Luco ninja'd me so hard
Ness is easy: GR CG to ledge > Fthrow > Fair > Fair > Magnet absorb > OoM Jump to stage. Rinse and repeat

Ness can CG himself? :O

Or did I mis-interpret?

 

[Nido]

Ness can indeed GR CG himself and Lucas.

Why does nobody know this?

 

[Luco]

Because it seems so silly.

Dang I have to do that now. :D

 

[Mad Duck]

Ness can indeed GR CG himself and Lucas.

Why does nobody know this?

Sometimes I GR Nesses with Lucas,but they escape after the first or second grab so sometimes I don't even try or end the GR with a F Tilt

 

[Luco]

Yep I CG-ed a Ness of the stage, then re-grabbed him on his second jump and grabbed the edge and made use of invincibility frames when he tried to recover. Then I recorded it.

I feel so awesome, replaying that. I spent most of the second stock trying to do it again and got kicked in the behind for it, basically. I got a kill in on the second stock when we both went off stage. I was too far off to recover but tried to anyway and got hit by his PKT1. He died, I was now close enough to the stage to recover! :-P

 

[DellSmashman]

Just curious, but are you sure that Pikachu doesn't get a guaranteed dash regrab after a grounded grab release?

 

[Shaky]

Pikachu does get a guaranteed dash regrab... who said he didn't?

 

[Tikao]

could air-release -> bdacus (falco) be true?