Ness and the Grab Release

[Nido]

This is a guide to let Ness mains know how dangerous getting grabbed by some characters can be.

This will be in order of the BBR Tier List V7

Those highlighted in light blue are the ones you should try to avoid the most.

Meta Knight:
Ground release > ALMOST ****ING EVERYTHING aka Turnaround Dsmash, grounded shuttle loop, small step regrab, dash grab, Ftilt, Dtilt, Nair, Dair and Fair
Air release > Uair, Fair and shuttle loop offstage

Olimar:
Ground release > Nothing
Air release > Fair

Diddy Kong:
Ground release > Dtilt, Ftilt and dash grab
Air release > Fair

Ice Climbers: Lol why would they release us?

Snake:
Ground release > Utilt and Ftilt
Air release > Nothing

Falco:
Ground release > Boost Usmash, jab, Ftilt and dash attack
Air release > Nothing

Marf:
Ground release > Death >.>
Air release > All aerials and hyphen Usmash

Pikachu:
Ground release > Ftilt and Dtilt
Air release > Nothing

Wario:
Ground release > Fsmash, Dtilt and jab
Air release > Fair

Zero Suit Samus:
Ground release > Ftilt, Dtilt, dash attack and jab
Air release > Uair and Fair

Lucario:
Ground release: Dash grab,
Air release: Fair

King D3:
Ground release > Dtilt and Ftilt
Air release > Nothing

Toon Link:
Ground release > Dsmash, Ftilt, Dtilt and jab
Air release > Hyphen Usmash, Fair and Zair

Wolf:
Ground release > Dsmash, Fsmash, Ftilt and jab
Air release > Uair and Fair

Mr. Game and Watch
Ground release > Fsmash, bucket, Dtilt
Air release > Nair and Fair

Fox:
Ground release > Buffered dash grab, dash attack, buffered hyphen Usmash
Air release > Usmash

Peach:
Ground release > Jab and dash grab
Air release > Nothing

Pit:
Ground release > Dsmash, Fsmash, jab and dash grab
Air release > Nair, Fair and Uair

R.O.B:
Ground release > Dash grab, Ftilt and Dtilt
Air release > Fair

Kirby:
Ground release > Dash grab and Fsmash
Air release > Nothing

Sonic:
Ground release > Dash grab and Ftilt
Air release > Fair and Nair

DK:
Cargo release > Dsmash and regrab
Ground release > Dsmash
Air release > Nothing

Ike:
Ground release > Jab
Air release > Nothing

Sheik:
Ground release > Ftilt, Fsmash, Dtilt and dash grab
Air release > DACUS and Fair

Yoshi:
Ground release > Couldn't get a ground release during testing can a Yoshi main clarify this for me?
Air release > hyphen Usmash and Uair

Ness:
Ground release > Dash grab
Air release > Fair

Squirtle:
Ground release > Regrab infinite, dash grab, jab, Ftilt, Dtilt and Fsmash
Air release > Dair, Fair and hyphen Usmash

Ivysaur:
Ground release > Dtilt and Ftilt
Air release > Fair and Nair

Charizard:
Ground release > Regrab, Dtilt
Air release > Fair, hyphen Usmash and Uair

Luigi:
Ground release > Dash grab
Air release > Fair, Nair and Uair

Lucas:
Ground release > Ftilt and Fsmash
Air release > Fair

Mario:
Ground release > Dair, Ftilt and Fsmash
Air release > Nothing

Samus:
Ground release > Dash attack, stutterstep Fsmash and Ftilt
Air release > Fair and Zair

Bowser:
Ground release > Dtilt, Ftilt, jab, Fsmash, dash grab and Klaw
Air release > Fair and Klaw

Captain Falcon:
Ground release > Ftilt, Dtilt and dash grab
Air release > THE KNEE, Uair, Falcon Dive and dash grab

Jigglypuff:
Ground release > Dash grab
Air release > Fair

Link:
Ground release > Dair, Dsmash, jab, spin attack and Ftilt
Air release > Nothing

Zelda:
Ground release > Fsmash
Air release > Fair

Ganondorf:
Ground release > Dash attack and jab
Air release > Fair

That's all folks!

 

[fox67890]

Fox:
Ground release > buffered dash grab,dash attack, buffered dash upsmash
Air release > Upsmash

Those are mainly the important ones.

 

[smashkng]

Marth gets AR Dair too on Ness, maybe Nair, Usmash and turn-around Bair as well.

 

[Nido]

Thanks to the other boards for input

 

[Jamwa]

Ness:
GR > dash grab

Lucas:
GR > Ftilt, regrab(?)

probably have more things that they can do, but those are the most useful

 

[Nido]

Ness:
GR > dash grab

Lucas:
GR > Ftilt, regrab(?)

probably have more things that they can do, but those are the most useful

Ness only has dash grab IIRC and Lucas can't regrab if Ness mashes spotdodge like crazy or something because

 

[yoshi8984]

Yoshi can Grab Release us (or rather Air Release ) into a U-Smash or U-Air.

Also Ness' Air Release is also bad?

 

[Nido]

Yoshi can Grab Release us (or rather Air Release ) into a U-Smash or U-Air.

Also Ness' Air Release is also bad?

Yeah Ness' air release is also bad

 

[yoshi8984]

If we get cargo released, does it like count as if DK were being grab released too? So he'd have a 20 frame advantage over us?

Also, the chances of Yoshi Ground Breaking us is rare: (I'll just quote this from the Yoshi Guide lol)
"OK so we lied: Yoshi doesn't always air release his opponent. HOWEVER, it's something only your opponent can control. There are a certain number of frames before the opponent enters Yoshi's mouth where, if the opponent mashes fast enough, he can force a ground break out of the grab."

And note that the % can affect how much you have to mash, so it should only happen at low percents lol

 

[smashkng]

I doubt Link's Up b can hit from a ground release. And Dair and Ftilt are way too slow LOL.

Zelda's Fsmash is 16 frame so it shouldn't work.

 

[Nido]

I doubt Link's Up b can hit from a ground release. And Dair and Ftilt are way too slow LOL.

Zelda's Fsmash is 16 frame so it shouldn't work.

Then my helper is ******** at dodging

 

[ATARi]

Sooooo If Ness didn't have a bad air relase and bad ground release Ganondorf would be +3 for us and Zelda +2 *sign* in other words we'd be boarderline if not low high tier, and Idk if someone said it but sonic has a d-tilt on Ness, same with Marth This is what really makes Ness so bad -____- just imagine he didn't have any release.

 

[TSM ZeRo]

Do Ness and Lucas have the same frames of lag after being grab released? (Aerial and grounded). Or do they have different frames? (Essentially, if I can do to the same things that I can do to Ness, but to Lucas) I'm really curious about this.

Also, for MK to connect his aerial shuttle loop after an aerial grab release, must he like: Walk a bit forward, jump and Shuttle Loop right away, correct? (All of this done very quickly or frame perfect).

Thanks in advance to whoever can answer this.

Edit: Mekos told me that yes. But does anyone know more about the topic?

On topic:

MK can also Dash attack, F-Air, Grounded Shuttle Loop, Down Air and N-Air.

Thanks!

 

[yoshi8984]

They do have the same frames after being released, though I believe their distance/mobility is different, hence why some characters can do certain attacks on Lucas but not on Ness and vice-versa.

Also if D3 has the biggest non-tether ranged grab in the game, how come he doesn't have an infinite on us after being Grab Released? O__O

 

[infiniteV115]

Zero Suit Samus:
Ground release > Ftilt, Dtilt and jab
Air release > Uair and Fair

From what I can recall, ZSS has a 6 frame advantage on ground release. This means she should be able to get a buffered dash attack.
I'm also pretty certain she can get nair and usmash out of air release, not positive though.

 

[Nido]

They do have the same frames after being released, though I believe their distance/mobility is different, hence why some characters can do certain attacks on Lucas but not on Ness and vice-versa.

Also if D3 has the biggest non-tether ranged grab in the game, how come he doesn't have an infinite on us after being Grab Released? O__O

I never thought of that

Ness ends up too far away for a regrab or even dash grab

 

[Jamwa]

Do Ness and Lucas have the same frames of lag after being grab released? (Aerial and grounded). Or do they have different frames? (Essentially, if I can do to the same things that I can do to Ness, but to Lucas) I'm really curious about this.

Also, for MK to connect his aerial shuttle loop after an aerial grab release, must he like: Walk a bit forward, jump and Shuttle Loop right away, correct? (All of this done very quickly or frame perfect).

Thanks in advance to whoever can answer this.

Edit: Mekos told me that yes. But does anyone know more about the topic?

On topic:

MK can also Dash attack, F-Air, Grounded Shuttle Loop, Down Air and N-Air.

Thanks!

Ness and Lucas have the same Frame data as you know.

The only difference is that when Ground Released, Lucas can move further away from the grabber than Ness as he slides further than Ness (Think about when Lucas slides off a Ledge and hits himself with PKT, he slides a lot more).

That being said, I'm not sure about everything being the same on both characters. I know Lucas can take less damage from Marth's Grab Release than Ness, as he can reach the edge of the stage quicker. Lucas could probably avoid some moves that Ness can't due to this, because he might be able to avoid the sweetspot or attack altogether (if the hitbox is small enough).

I may be wrong, this is from memory

 

[Nido]

Ness and Lucas have the same Frame data as you know.

The only difference is that when Ground Released, Lucas can move further away from the grabber than Ness as he slides further than Ness (Think about when Lucas slides off a Ledge and hits himself with PKT, he slides a lot more).

That being said, I'm not sure about everything being the same on both characters. I know Lucas can take less damage from Marth's Grab Release than Ness, as he can reach the edge of the stage quicker. Lucas could probably avoid some moves that Ness can't due to this, because he might be able to avoid the sweetspot or attack altogether (if the hitbox is small enough).

I may be wrong, this is from memory

I haven't tried this but I think Marth gets a tipper Fsmash because of how far away Lucas slides.

 

[Jamwa]

I haven't tried this but I think Marth gets a tipper Fsmash because of how far away Lucas slides.

Which direction you slide is up to your DI, and you can DI with the Analog Stick and the C-stick I think. You don't get tipper F smashed though, it's not that slidy

 

[Nido]

I believe the C-Stick is only for SDI but I don't know the most about DI in general

 

[Jamwa]

I believe the C-Stick is only for SDI but I don't know the most about DI in general

I think in the case of Grab releases using the c-stick can influence your direction, there's a thread about it which goes into the details of escaping marth's grab quickly somewhere which would confirm this

 

[yoshi8984]

The only thing that I know that someone has on Lucas but not Ness is that Yoshi can CG Lucas, but we can't get CG'd, but both of them can still get hit by his U-Air/U-Smash.

 

[Jamwa]

The only thing that I know that someone has on Lucas but not Ness is that Yoshi can CG Lucas, but we can't get CG'd, but both of them can still get hit by his U-Air/U-Smash.

That is an air release, and does Ness simply jump out of the CG or use an aerial to escape it?

 

[Nido]

Ness just can't get grabbed unless he fast falls into it, but yeah jumping works

 

[Tikao]

this thread makes me cry , please hide it ;_;

 

[Nido]

Sorry, but this needs to exist

 

[Tikao]

i know
rule 1. for ness mains ... deal with the death-grab
but it's not only painful for ness ;_;

 

[Nido]

Rule #1 is getting good at evading grabs
Rule #2 is spam Fair XD

 

[Tikao]

if you can't deal with the death grab , you can't main ness
if you can't avoid getting grabbed , you're ness sucks , BUT you can main him

Rule 1. = deal with the death-grab
Rule 2. = avoid getting grabbed
Rule 3. = Fair-Play

 

[Nido]

If you can evade grabs then you evade the death grab, only Zard and Marf have death grabs on us anyway. If you can't evade grabs then get better at evading them.
I've beaten Marfs who've tried to death grab me before by being slippery.

 

[yoshi8984]

Yeah I beat this guy who switched to Marth because I switched to Ness and he tried to deathgrab me but I escaped it and only took like 15%
Then again it was on Brinstar. XD

Also, my rules for Ness:
1: Do your best to avoid being grabbed!
2: Be an aerial ace!
3: Use his throws properly and wisely!
4: Use his ground game to its fullest potential! But, don't F-Smash so much. Love Yo-yos, juggle with U-Tilt and punish (or even kill!) with F-Tilt! Even D-Tilt has its uses!

 

[Nido]

Brinstar, Delfino and Pirate Ship are banned in my region D:

 

[Luco]

Awww nuts that sucks Nido. I think my region has brinstar... So weird.

Dair someone on Brinstar and they'll go below the lava and die.

 

[Nido]

Wow... Never knew that.
I'm going to push for Brinstar and Delfino to unban

 

[Luco]

Yea I did it to my brother once, recorded it too.

I suggest pushing for it to be unbanned, use the fact that it's unbanned in like every major American national and I think in Australian regionals too.

 

[Tikao]

pirate ship is banned , brinstar is banned , rainbow cruise is banned ... delfino is allowed , so , they can ban this against me ._.

 

[yoshi8984]

Ok Pirate Ship I can understand why it was banned (I'm believe it was banned like a few years ago?) lol
Brinstar and Rainbow Cruise though I don't understand why it's banned there. =P
Well I don't really like Rainbow Cruise since I'm not a fan of moving stages and I find it tricky to recover there.

 

[Tikao]

rainbow cruise is so awesome *_* ... I've won a match at a 2:1 set in teams (7 people xD) at a little sf in a 2vs1(me) situation against marth and mk xDD ... and its banned in germany , because mk is too broken on this stage ... i would cp it : ( ( they just let me counterpick it , because it was a 2vs1 situation , even if both , the enemy and me , would like to cp it , it would be banned at any tourney ._.)

 

[TSM ZeRo]

They do have the same frames after being released, though I believe their distance/mobility is different, hence why some characters can do certain attacks on Lucas but not on Ness and vice-versa.

Also if D3 has the biggest non-tether ranged grab in the game, how come he doesn't have an infinite on us after being Grab Released? O__O

Gotcha. Thank you very much!

 

[smashkng]

@ yoshi8984
Charizard and Marth pull Ness towards them when they grab, while DDD holds Ness at the range of his extended arms. So when Ness ground breaks he ends up farther away when he escapes from DDD's grab than he does when Marth and Charizard ground release him.

Also I think Squirtle can standing regrab Ness too, but his pummel doesn't have enough hitstun to force a ground break 100% of the time.