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Need help taking my title back...

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EsteBeatDown

Smash Cadet
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Messages
71
Location
Midland, TX
Hello all. I am new here. I was searching google for SSBM tips and came across this forum. Seems as if this is the perfect place to ask my question. Before I do so however, here is a little background information.

Since this wonderful game was released back in 2001, I was the king. Maybe not the king in Texas, or in the Permian Basin. Heck, I don't even know if I was the king here in the town of Midland. But one thing I do know, I was the king of SSBM in my church.

I go to a church of about 150 members, which includes about 40+ smash fanatics. Among these fanatics, I was the champion for almost 5 years., which spanned over 20 tournaments (not including many impromptu smash gatherings). I won every single event. I have sent many hardcore smashers home crying, wondering why their hours of practicing never amounted to anything. I was.... the smash champ. Until....

About 2 years ago, the inevitable happened. It happens to every man at some point. It's like the plague. You can't avoid it. After a while, you are expected to do this. No, I'm not talking about erectile disfunction (you pervs).

I got married.

Yes, I took the plunge. Along with that, so did the smash. No more. Adios. Bye bye... In actuality, it started when I started dating my wife. Don't get me wrong, I don't regret my decision. I love my wife deeply, but I will never forget that day when I attended my last tournament. The day I had to relinquish my title.

It's not that I lost that tourney. I just didn't take part. It was my farwell tourney. It was my smash retirement tourney. I retired the champ. But at the same time, a new champ had to be born. Therefore, the winner of that event was to become the new champ. Ironically though, the winner of that tourney just happened to be my arch nemesis. The one man who was always on my heels, but had never been able to defeat me. He was also a Fox user. I hate Fox. With a passion.

So then, why the hell am I bothering you with this now? Simple.

During the past few months, I have had an itch. A strong itch. An itch to play smash again. Some of it has to do with the new game coming out for the Wii, but the majority cause of this itch has to do with my former smash commerades.

It has come to my attention that many of my former smashers have been "trash talking". They have been stating that I am no longer "any good". I have "lost my touch". "I suxx0rs". They could, as it were "Pwn m3 with 3xtr3m3 1337n355." This has caused my itch to grow to high levels. So high that I have decided, with my wife's blessing of course, to retake my crown. But, a problem has insued...

It seems as if, during my absense, some issues have developed. Since my retirement, the title has changed many times. This has prompted many strategies to be changed. Many characters to be swapped out. Many new cheese tactics to be adopted. All this time, I have been out of the loop. Realizing this, I decided to get a little taste of what I was in for. Thus, we held a "mini-tourney" this past weekend (basically, a tournament with no title implications). Every smasher that I remembered was there (many of who just wanted to see how they would fare against the former long time champ of 5 years). I remember grasping that controller for the first time in almost 2 years and wondering, "What the hell am I doing? I am going to get PWN3D."

So then, how did I do?

I lost. Not badly though! In fact, for a 2 year absense, I came in second. Therefore, I think I did pretty good. However, I did lose in the finals to my arch nemesis (who relished the idea that he actually beat me). But during this mini event, I realized alot. I am way behind the times. My tactics I used to use with Samus seemed to be old and easily countered this time around. My Fox nemesis and I (although I only lost by 1 man in a 10 man contest), seemed to always have the upper hand on me. This just will not do if I want to take my title back by the next tournament. Therefore, this is where you, the friendly community comes in.

I need help. I need tactics against Fox. I need tactics against Mario. I need to get ahead with the times. Who is the best against Fox? How can I get the best of him using Samus? Do I need to change characters? If so, which one should I make the switch to? I need to CATCH UP! Give me guides. Links! Handwritten essays! Anything!

As I said, I wish to put all those nay-sayers to bed. Any assistance you can provide will be greatly appreciated, and will be followed up with a plethora of appreciative XOXO's and "u r0x0rs!" Thank you for your time. I love you all and wish to have each of your babies. *Kiss Kiss*

(If you would rather send your help to my personal e-mail, you can at esteban.ramos@gm.com)

(Note to Mods: I was unsure where to put this. If this topic needs to be moved, please feel free to do so.)
 

squaminator

Smash Ace
Joined
Jul 4, 2006
Messages
617
Location
naugatuck, CT
i don't know where you are in your technical abilities, so imma just throw these out there.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6268917341431368191&q=ssbm+advanced+how+to+play
if you don't know what l-cancelling is or DI, check that out.

next. find some videos of HUGs and WES and check them out. look in the video section for that.

lastly, look at this
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4436716065093691994&hl=en

this is all for samus. if you need help with other characters, look to the appropriate character specific board. 2 other things.

there's no such thing as cheese when there's money on the line.
No johns.
 

EsteBeatDown

Smash Cadet
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Messages
71
Location
Midland, TX
Erm..do you know advanced techniques and do they?
LOL. Idiot me. I should have included this.

Anyways, thank you for your quick replies. I will go ahead and try to be honest with you in regards to my technical skills. Just an FYI though, I am not up to date in regards to terms and such, so forgive me if I don't know what advanced tactics are. I might already be doing them and just not know it.

My main character used to be Roy until I made the switch to Samus. I chose Samus mainly because of her powerful attacks and numerous combo's that can be performed with her charge shot. I use her tackle to chain most of my combo's, and I love to use her jump kick attack to suprise air-borne loving enemies (as her kick attack seems to "stick around" and can land even a few seconds after it's been performed). I hardly use her ball attack, as I see it as worthless (I'm sure many of you will disagree). One of my favorite combo's is her chain beam ground throw followed by a charge shot (or a tackle/screw attack for lighter enemies), even though it is very elemetary. I am usually defensive as Samus can deliver quick suprise attacks to oncoming opponents (thank you C-Stick down). Dodging is one of my main strengths, as I have made many-a-frustrated gamer (**** it, why can't I hit you?! That kick went straight through your body!).

My weaknesses have to do with fast, air-borne characters (as Samus is somewhat slow in movement and recovery). I hate fighting Fox as he has a huge arsenal of arieal attacks. My main problem stems from not being able to fight against the quick "from above" advances, such as Fox's spammable jump and kick attack. I usually end up doing more dodging than attacking. I can't seem to find a good counter for it. That is why I am more insistant on changing to a quicker character. But if I can stay with Samus, I would rather go that route.
 

AlphaZealot

Former Smashboards Owner
Administrator
Premium
BRoomer
Joined
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Messages
12,731
Location
Bellevue, Washington
Well, I happen to like your story/thread and you presented it nicely, so I don't see much harm in leaving this up for awhile, but checking character specific forums might help you abit. What sort of ruleset are you playing in btw, because that can determine a lot...

For Samus here is some advice:

If your playing on Pokemon Stadium, Yoshi Story, and Dreamland 64: You can do a short hop missle onto the platform, followed by a platform drop and another missle, and repeat this process over and over. It's essentially creates a barrage of missles at two heights.

One of the most difficult things in the game is the full jump double missle. That is, full jump, missle at the top of the jump, and missle at the bottom of the jump. The timing is insanely hard, you will need to be pressing over B within fractions of a second of pressing the jump button.

Learn to bomb jump, it will increase your recovery insanely. To bomb jump, while you are off the level, drop one bomb, fall a lil, drop the second bomb, the press to the left/right, then repeat the process. You should be able to recover just about every distance on just about every level using this tactic coupled with the grapple against the level.

If you time a dodge and the grapple at the same time you can get what some people call Samus's third jump. The grapple can launch you really high using this method. By the same token, this method, coupled with certain locations beneith the stage of FD, can make you grapple cancel, which is launching up with the grapple, which gets broken by the stage, at which point you are free to do any attack.

Against Fox, your Ub B move is amazing if your opponant likes to Shine a lot (down B...reflector move). Why? The shine hits on frame 4 I believe, while Samus's up B hits on the first frame (meaning your attack will hit them before theirs hits you).

For ledge recovery (from the hanging position): press away from the ledge, press Y/X to jump fast, then press forward A/forward cstick. If they shield the attack, press up b after landing.

Learn to wavedash backwards, it'll save your *** a lot against drillshine happy Fox's.

Learn to grapple extend. Its a nifty trick you can use in certain situation (or to taunt your opponant): while the grapple is out once, press Z, up, down, up (on the D pad), then z again. The next time you use your grapple it should be 3 times as long and will have the ability to hone by pressing L/R. To grab the opponant you must press A/Z while the grapple is over them.
 

pdk

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 20, 2006
Messages
1,320
better yet we could use match footage, picture's worth a thousand words and a movie's worth a thousand pictures (technically 60/second which adds up to tens of thousands in a few minutes but whatever!)
 

Red Shirt KRT

Smash Ace
Joined
Feb 14, 2007
Messages
862
NNID
1-337-PWN-CALL
3DS FC
0044-2813-9398
Just get Captain Falcon and Knee him in the face, and ask him who is the fastest character in the game now?
 

Corigames

Smash Hero
Joined
Oct 20, 2006
Messages
5,817
Location
Tempe, AZ
I think I can help with the Samus.

First of all, I will disagree with you on the bomb (down + b) issue. You should use them more. Without seeing video or knowing exactly how you attack, this will be hard... but hey, not everyone can have such equipment laying around!

When an enemy runs at you, you can drop a bomb on the ground and stand beside it. if the enemy hits the bomb, youshould be ables to bounce over them for a quick air strike. If a person is coming at you from the air, you can drop a bomb, move backwards, drop annother bomb, move forward, and then either bounce to the left or right by hitting the first bomb when it explodes. You could also place another bomb instead of bouncing away to continue this back and forth movement. I guess what I'm saying is to not rule out the bombs as they are usually a good to great defensive technique.

If you are having problems with fox in the air, stay on the ground. If that sounded like I was putting you down, sorry. If he likes to attack from the air. Wait until the last second to throw up your shield, then give him a good down smash when he is done attacking. BE CAREFUL not to do this too much as your shield does drain over time (hint the wait 'till the last second part).

Can you missile cancel? If you can, use it frequently. When you double missile, you can easily move in on your enemy. If they use a reflecting attack, the second missile will stop the first and allow you to move in on them and punish them for it. Also, remember that the charge shot isn't everything! Although it is very powerful, only charge it up when the other person is very far away from you. It is not so important to risk getting comboed. If this also sounded like the obvious, sorry. Just remember that two missiles can do about the same as a charge shot.

How is your recovery? Can you bomb jump recover with Samus? This is very important to do as it let's you recover slowly and over a great distance. Also, when you are low but still close to the side of the stage, don't forget her grapple beam! You can always air dodge closer to the stage (or away from if you are too close) and then immediately grapple on. Press A to pull yourself up. Using these tactics is what makes Samus a great recovery player. Also, don't rule out attacking while recovering. You can always shoot a missile and then grapple the edge before getting too low on the screen. Just don't do it every time as it is suppose to surprise them.

Do you crouch cancel? If you don't know what it is, it basically means holding down WHILE being attacked, not after. A ok strategy with Samus is to take a light attack to the face and then punish the other person with a massive combo. Samus has the best CC (crouch cancel) in the game, or so I think. Rememberr, though, that you still take full damage from the attack, you just don't get knocked back until you are at higher %'s. Also, CCing will sometimes keep youalove when you should have died. I know that at 90% fox's up smash may kill you, but CCing will keep you alive. Once again, don't use this too much or at higher %'s because you are still taking full damage!

Do you wave dash? I'm not going to explain it if you don't. If you do, wave dash to a forward smash works wonders. Charging in and then wave dashing back also is a great mind-game.

That's all the help I can think of right now, but I'm sure there is much more you can find on the character specific boards for Samus and Roy (which happen to be my main and secondary, isn't that wierd?)
 

greenblob

Smash Lord
Joined
May 17, 2006
Messages
1,632
Location
SF Bay Area
First off, learn the strategies/tactics. Can you missile cancel? How about wavedash and SHFFL? Bomb-jump recovery? Crouch cancel? Do you know some of the basic combos (Samus doesn't really have any beyond 2-3 hit ones)? If you answered no to anyone of those, you know where to start. Try one of the stickied threads or smashwiki.com or the Samus boards.

Actually, there might be a step zero (or negative one or whatever you want to call it). You mentioned "cheese tactics/cheapness" or something along those lines. Get rid of any concept of cheapness, because in a competitive game such as Smash, they don't exist (perhaps with a few exceptions such as excessive and active camping). Don't hold back and do whatever it takes to win--that's how the game strategies evolve, again, assuming that the game holds up well in competitive play.

OK, you've got all that down? Now take a look at some videos of pros. [wiki]Professionals[/wiki] is a good place to start. Pick a name and look it up on youtube. See what they do, see what works and what you should avoid, etc. Learn by example.
 

Junpappy

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 18, 2006
Messages
1,439
Location
aZ
If you think you might be doing advanced techs then chances are you aren't doing them. Advanced techs are in no way intuitive, so you're going to want to check out this thread http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=42749 as well as the videos linked in earlier posts.
Once you learn to integrate advanced techniques into your everyday playing, then you won't even need to worry about character specific strategies because you'll own most if not all people who don't use advanced techs.
 

Red Exodus

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 7, 2006
Messages
4,494
Location
Hell
I suggest you start easy with the basics, short hopping, L-cancelling, maybe wavedashing if you can get it down in a few days [the problem is applying wavedashing, I guess you can replace Samus' slow-mo roll with WDing, but there's a lot more you can do with WDing].

Watch those Advance How To Play vids first, practice some off the simple stuff and work your way up. Just remember to watch how you use your advanced techniques, don't try to show off or you'll mess up [I'd know] keep your eye on the enemy, if you get too caught up in you own character you miss key patterns your opponents follow. Watch them, take note and intercept.

That should be enough for now, plus you have the help of SWF members, you're in safe hands [unless your opponents find this too, then you're screwed] =|
 

JesiahTEG

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 30, 2007
Messages
4,126
Location
Rochester, NY
Well, everything everyone else has said is really important, but there's a few things you should know.

1. If you learn any of the advanced techniques, you will immediately have an upper hand on your church. Beware, when you start to learn these, they will follow and your whole smash game at church is gonna evolve like crazy.

2. This is an extremely unbalanced fighting game. Fox>Samus. No offense or anything, but your arch nemesis is playing the best character in the game. Don't expect to start beating him right off of the bat.

3. Samus is different than other characters. If you read about advanced techniques, you will read about SHFFLing. You should DEFINITELY learn this, but if you plan on playing with Samus, SHFFLing is less important to master than it is with other characters.

4. Everyone is telling you about how to use missiles a lot and correctly, but the way your talking it seems as if you and your church have not discovered advanced techniques. I've found that most ppl that have not discovered advanced techniques use fox's shine (Down +B) to reflect missiles and projectiles. If he likes to do that, it's gonna be weird for you to try and hit him with missiles.

5. Samus's Plasma Ball, the one you think is useless, is actually pretty good. If you don't think you wanna use it, at least try this. Charge it up, and hit fox off the edge. When fox is recovering using his foxfire (Up + B) shoot him with it. Also, you can wait until fox lands with his Foxfire, and as soon as he's landed blast him with it. The lag after foxfire is really bad, and I'm assuming your arch nemesis doesn't know how to sweetspot the edge, so this should work almost any time.

6. Just some useful samus tricks that you absolutely need to master... BOMB JUMP! BOMB JUMP! Please learn this technique. My 2 worst matchups in this game are against Samus and Peach, and this is because they can both live to ridiculously high percentages, Samus even more so than Peach if Samus is bomb jumping. Another thing you should learn is Crouch Cancelling. This is when you hold down to crouch, right before they hit you with an attack, and when they hit you, you will not move nearly as far. After they hit you, use that move that you told us you like to use, the one where you push down on the C-Stick. This, btw, is called Spot Dodging, or Side Dodging. If your finding how to time your Crouch Cancels difficult, try this. You said you like to dodge a lot, so everytime you would normally dodge, just hold down and wait for them to hit you. Afterwards, downsmash him. This will help you immensely, and if you at least listen to part 6 of my advice, meaning this part, I'm almost positive you will win the match. The most important advice is up next...


~MOST IMPORTANT ADVICE~


7. This next piece of advice should be the advice you listen to the most, and cherish it dearly. This advice, should be used if you want to continue being successful at smash, and if you want to stay better than your arch nemesis. Ready? Ok, here goes.

Don't ever...ever... ... EVER mention the following terms to your arch nemesis, or any other fox player you come across.
-Pillar
-Infinite
-Up throw to Up air
-Waveshine
-Shine Spike
-Green Greens
Most importantly, above all others... LASER CAMPING!!!
If your arch nemesis mentions any of these terms or starts to use them in battle, do either 1of the following 2 things.

1.Erase his memory
2.Switch your main character to Fox or Falco

That is all. You should be set with the knowledge I have imparted to you. Remember, don't let him even hear those terms I just mentioned to you. It's for your own good, and it's your only possible way to stay better than him at this game.
 

Zankoku

Never Knows Best
Administrator
BRoomer
Joined
Nov 8, 2006
Messages
22,906
Location
Milpitas, CA
NNID
SSBM_PLAYER
The lag after foxfire is really bad
...What? The lag from landing after Foxfire is three frames. You'd have to blast him out of the air before he landed if you don't want your Charge Shot shined.
 

Vall3y

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 10, 2005
Messages
1,619
Location
Israel
imo the most best advice for your situation would be learn to CC -> dsmash
the fox probably uses lots of dash attacks
hold down alot, when you are about to get hit, 'absorb' the attack, then hit cstick down or forward if you wanna kill
 

EsteBeatDown

Smash Cadet
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Messages
71
Location
Midland, TX
Wow. I've been taking everything in. Watching video's, reading guides. It's all very interesting. Alot has changed since I stopped playing. There are some issues I thought I might address, and they all seem to be mentioned in this e-mail, so I will break it down piece by piece. (Thanks JesiahTEG and everyone else!)

Well, everything everyone else has said is really important, but there's a few things you should know.

1. If you learn any of the advanced techniques, you will immediately have an upper hand on your church. Beware, when you start to learn these, they will follow and your whole smash game at church is gonna evolve like crazy.

2. This is an extremely unbalanced fighting game. Fox>Samus. No offense or anything, but your arch nemesis is playing the best character in the game. Don't expect to start beating him right off of the bat.
LOL. DRAT! There is one piece of solace here though. I will address it below.

3. Samus is different than other characters. If you read about advanced techniques, you will read about SHFFLing. You should DEFINITELY learn this, but if you plan on playing with Samus, SHFFLing is less important to master than it is with other characters.

4. Everyone is telling you about how to use missiles a lot and correctly, but the way your talking it seems as if you and your church have not discovered advanced techniques. I've found that most ppl that have not discovered advanced techniques use fox's shine (Down +B) to reflect missiles and projectiles. If he likes to do that, it's gonna be weird for you to try and hit him with missiles.
He does infact, know a couple of advanced techniques, although I am not sure if he knows that they are what they are. For instance, he rarely uses his shine to reflect. He prefers to use it for combo purposes. (EX: Grab and throw down, shine, dash kick, followed by jump smash up.) I have learned to adapt and keep him off balance in the past, but he seems to have accumulated new combo's since my absence. HOWEVER, he does not seem to have the ability I have read from all of your posts, or seen in the video's, which leads me to believe that he does not know about this website, or the internet for that matter. LOL.

5. Samus's Plasma Ball, the one you think is useless, is actually pretty good. If you don't think you wanna use it, at least try this. Charge it up, and hit fox off the edge. When fox is recovering using his foxfire (Up + B) shoot him with it. Also, you can wait until fox lands with his Foxfire, and as soon as he's landed blast him with it. The lag after foxfire is really bad, and I'm assuming your arch nemesis doesn't know how to sweetspot the edge, so this should work almost any time.
I think you misunderstood me. I love the Charge Shot. I already have this tactic incorporated. It leads to some of the most satisfying kills in the game (especially when I pull off the scenario you stated above). In fact, it's one of my trump cards against him. He never knows when I am going to use it, therefore it leads to many suprise attacks (imagine a fully accelerated Fox running towards you, expecting a charge shot in the face. Instead of reflecting the shot with shine, he is instead grabbed ahold of by my beam chain, thrown down, AND THEN shot in the face. Brings tears to my eyes).

6. Just some useful samus tricks that you absolutely need to master... BOMB JUMP! BOMB JUMP! Please learn this technique. My 2 worst matchups in this game are against Samus and Peach, and this is because they can both live to ridiculously high percentages, Samus even more so than Peach if Samus is bomb jumping. Another thing you should learn is Crouch Cancelling. This is when you hold down to crouch, right before they hit you with an attack, and when they hit you, you will not move nearly as far. After they hit you, use that move that you told us you like to use, the one where you push down on the C-Stick. This, btw, is called Spot Dodging, or Side Dodging. If your finding how to time your Crouch Cancels difficult, try this. You said you like to dodge a lot, so everytime you would normally dodge, just hold down and wait for them to hit you. Afterwards, downsmash him. This will help you immensely, and if you at least listen to part 6 of my advice, meaning this part, I'm almost positive you will win the match. The most important advice is up next...
I love this. I never knew about croutch cancelling. I know it sounds n00bish, but I have never needed this advise before. When I was the champ, no one bothered to accelerate their game because no matter how hard they tried, I would not lose. I guess it became boring to them, seeing as how no matter who entered the tourney, they knew how it would end up. The only one who even bothered to try new things was my nemesis, who in fact was the one who kept up with me. I have a feeling that as soon as I incorporate these tactics, things will start to get real interesting.




~MOST IMPORTANT ADVICE~


7. This next piece of advice should be the advice you listen to the most, and cherish it dearly. This advice, should be used if you want to continue being successful at smash, and if you want to stay better than your arch nemesis. Ready? Ok, here goes.

Don't ever...ever... ... EVER mention the following terms to your arch nemesis, or any other fox player you come across.
-Pillar
-Infinite
-Up throw to Up air
-Waveshine
-Shine Spike
-Green Greens
Most importantly, above all others... LASER CAMPING!!!
If your arch nemesis mentions any of these terms or starts to use them in battle, do either 1of the following 2 things.

1.Erase his memory
2.Switch your main character to Fox or Falco

That is all. You should be set with the knowledge I have imparted to you. Remember, don't let him even hear those terms I just mentioned to you. It's for your own good, and it's your only possible way to stay better than him at this game.
Understood.

This is a tier I never knew existed. I really think maybe I should consider a character switch or maybe atleast a back up. I really liked what I saw with Marth...
 

Cra$hman

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 7, 2005
Messages
1,535
Location
In the last place you look
jesiah is wrong, samus actually does quite well against fox, especially foxes who arn't really technically proficient. try this out next time you play him, whenever he attacks just hold down then right after you get hit hit down on the c-stick. its a really powerful tactic vs fox that hes probably never seen before so he won't know how to get around it right away. be prepared to be called cheap though if your community is at all scrubby.
 

Mars-

Smash Champion
Joined
Jun 15, 2006
Messages
2,530
Location
Chicago area
jesiah is wrong, samus actually does quite well against fox, especially foxes who arn't really technically proficient. try this out next time you play him, whenever he attacks just hold down then right after you get hit hit down on the c-stick. its a really powerful tactic vs fox that hes probably never seen before so he won't know how to get around it right away. be prepared to be called cheap though if your community is at all scrubby.
Crashman just schooled this topic.
 

Pat/Pro

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 23, 2007
Messages
630
Location
Seekonk, MA
You said that he downthrows to shine. If you tech his downthrow he shouldnt be able to do that. And crashman is right its an even matchup with fox and samus and its in your favor against a noob fox.
 

Banks

Smash Hero
Joined
Feb 17, 2005
Messages
5,861
Location
Maine (NSG)
samus can **** foxes on edgeguarding i'd say your first priority would be to learn how to gueard his recovery properly.
 

EsteBeatDown

Smash Cadet
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Messages
71
Location
Midland, TX
I am already viewed as cheap anyways, so that's no problem! When you were the champ for as long as I was, then everyone assumes that you must be cheating, no matter what evidence you show them.

"Man, how can you be juggling me like that?! You must be using cheese, or cheating!"
 

EsteBeatDown

Smash Cadet
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Messages
71
Location
Midland, TX
*OMG!* LOL. I 4M 7077411Y 60in6 70 R0XX0RX! 13337n355!

LOL. Anyways. The reason for my sudden 1337 outspurt is this...

I just watched that advanced tutorial video that you all recommended and holy sonofamotherless crap on a stick of trident, I was amazed. There are just so many options. I now realize how n00bish I am. I thought I was good. I thought my nemesis was good...

But now, son of a bean dip mother frito, it's gonna change. There are just so many tactics I can use that I know NO ONE is going to be expecting. No more roll dodging for me. Shield Up B Smash. Wavedash. Freaking edge... everything!

Don't get me wrong. I already knew alot of these "basic" techniques (like teching, edge hogging/hopping, shield grabbing), but these other tactics are going to help me PWN.

Thanks guys! I appreciate it. Keep the tips coming. I'll let you know how my training is going. I might even teach my brother these things, so he can take over for me after my inevitable 2nd retirement. LOL.
 

Fletch

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 13, 2005
Messages
3,046
Location
Shablagoo!!
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=55424

For if you really want to go nuts with Samus, you might want to learn that. Check out some videos of Phanna on Youtube, you'll see how well he utilizes the Super WD.

Other than that, I'm gonna have to agree with Crashman, Samus does fairly well, if anything it might be *slightly* in Fox's favor, but Samus isn't really a character with that many horrible matchups, and Fox is no exception. Just learn the basic WD, use lots of bombs and missiles, bomb recover, always tech, and pretty much everything else everybody has said so far in this topic and it sounds like you'll be fine.
 

Banks

Smash Hero
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uhh as for the phanna vids i wouldnt recommend trying to do that flashy **** too much. i would recommend going to youtube for videos of Hugs and Wes, who are normal samuses (Sami?)
 

St. Viers

Smash Champion
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yeah, and just a warning: learning the advance techs is one thing: using them in battle is something else completely--remember to practice them in actual fights too!
 

Flak

Smash Cadet
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remember ever time you have almost made it back to the edge, but were just a <i>little</i> bit too far away? Well, if you know how to use the bomb jump and grapple as part of your recovery then this situation will no longer present itself. There are only 2 options: either you are killed by going off the side or up, or you recover. No more falling down. (assuming your arch nemis NEVER EVER hears about...gulp... shine... spiking.....*shudder*
 

greenblob

Smash Lord
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Yeah, advanced tactics take about a day to learn to perform them, but take months to learn to use them and an eternity to become proficient with them. Just because you learned how to wavedash doesn't mean you should move on--see if you can continuously wavedash forward several times, back several times, and then back and forth. This is especially important with Samus, since she is one of the few characters whose wavedash is faster than the normal dash.

Samus actually has few counterpicks in terms of character match-ups. If you're going to go for a secondary, I suggest Sheik (or Falco) who'll fill in the few gaps (Falcon, Ganon, arguably Falco, Marth, and Jigglypuff).
...Of course, you can always go for the Wobble.

In terms of Samus-specific strategies, um...try the Samus boards, and don't bother with SmashTom's video guides. Oh, and if you're going for wins alone, don't bother with the Super Wavedash (not talking about the regular wavedash). It's very difficult to pull off consistently and has almost no practical application.
You should especially learn the missile cancel and the bomb jump recovery. Missile canceling is landing right after you shoot a missile, eliminating the normal cooldown lag after the missile. One application is to missile cancel and then use the charge shot right after, making both projectiles travel at practically the same time. The bomb jump recovery is a recovery aid. It's tedious to explain, but once you see it, you'll get it instantaneously.
 

EsteBeatDown

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I've been practicing the bomb jump. I've done it a couple of times, but what I have trouble on is the timing of grappling. I always seem to barely miss it. I think it's because I have not unlocked the extended grapple yet (new memory card...).
 

Zankoku

Never Knows Best
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How to use the bomb-jump + grapple recovery:
Always save your second jump for last, and start off bomb-jumping for recovery. You can actually air-dodge toward the stage a little, then use the grappling beam immediately afterward.
 

Corigames

Smash Hero
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I've been practicing the bomb jump. I've done it a couple of times, but what I have trouble on is the timing of grappling. I always seem to barely miss it. I think it's because I have not unlocked the extended grapple yet (new memory card...).
The extender has nothing to do with save data. It is something you have to do from life to life, don't worry about it right now, because it isn't that important and doesn't affect its length in the air. If you are having trouble grappling the stage, don't forget that you can air-dodge first so that you can stop mid-air and then do it. This way, it is more comfortable to do.

If you want to extend the grapple. Stand still and press Z. Next, start tapping up and down on the D-pad over and over while also pressing z over and over. It sounds complicated, but it is basically button mashing the d-pad and Z. But like I said, it's not that important.
 

Red Exodus

Smash Master
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I find it harder to grab with the extended grapple, even though it locks on. I'll have to read how to do it again.

I almost forgot one very important piece of information, this will decide whether or not you learn these techniques or beat your friends.

Don't try to learn too fast.

I made that mistake the first time I found out about these techniques, it made me worse than I was before. Take everything one day at a time. Try to learn and use WDing one day, trying SHFFLing another, bomb jumping another [it's really easy but you might want tlearn how to do it different ways, so you can stall, which is used to avoid edgeguards].

As St. Viers said, try to use the techs you are comfortable with in battle, it'll help you learn faster than if you try it on computers.
 

EsteBeatDown

Smash Cadet
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
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Midland, TX
Yeah. Right now I am trying my hand at the bomb jump recovery. I got it a couple of times (followed by well deserved fist pumps and hoots). I've gotten used to CCing as well, which has proved to be a HUGE life saver.

I'm also trying to get used to L cancelling. I have seen video's on it and I can see how it is (IMO) the most useful tactic in the game, especially for characters like Samus and Marth. Combo's that would not normally link together are now linkable.

For instance, I decided to play my brother yesterday with Marth (who is a pretty good Fox, if you don't use the advanced tactics), and I managed to frustrate him quite a bit with a shield grab combo (shield grab up, shield grab up, shield grab up, up a, up a, air slash, air slash, air smash down). It's one similar to what Kaze does. Without L cancelling, it's not possible to do. But when I got the hang of it, it was pretty easy. It was also sweet to see my brother (who I normally wouldn't be able to beat using Marth), throw his controller down and accuse me of cheese. His exact words were, "I'm not playing you anymore until you stop with that instant hit crap!"

Besides the kiss at my wedding reception, this was probably one of my most favorite moments.
 

EsteBeatDown

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Oh yeah, and if any of you happen to ever meet my wife, please don't tell her that I just compared our wedding day to a SSBM match. I don't think that would help our marriage too much...

LOL.
 
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