My fellow Zelda mains, I have a problem

[-Mars-]

So I recently joined the allisbrawl ladder(yes it's wifi, but it's the closest thing I have to tournament play at the moment) and I have a serious problem.........approaching.

I'm getting camped like no other and i'm having trouble doing anything about it. Now this isn't another one of those"OMG SPammerz" type of threads, because my Sheik handles spammers and campers with no problem. No, my problem is approaching with Zelda. Everytime I switch to Zelda for the kill, my opponent camps me and i'm forced to approach. Some methods I use:

1.Approaching with Naryus- sure this isn't something you want to be doing often but in the case of me fighting a ROB or Falco i'm almost running out of options. Yes I am competent at powershielding, but that usually leads to me getting grabbed.

2.SHAD-works on characters that can't camp, but seriously how many of those are you going to run up against. I try buffering into dtilts but my oppponent stays in thier shields whenever I approach with Zelda. I try PWG'ing, but her PWG is extremely slow; my opponent always has time to react to it.

3. Gliding with Dins- Wow, I actually thought at one time that this was an actual viable approach..yeah right. Since i've started to play the MK's and the Marths and the G&W's that actually know how to properly handle this, this has gone to shreds. Post dins lag is just enough time for the better players to punish you hard.

I'm getting camped all over the place and it's driving me away from Zelda. I'm actually staying straight Sheik most of the time and i'm trying hard not to just go Sheik. I do play a lot of matchups straight Zelda(DDD,Pikachu,ROB,Kirby,Luigi,Wario), but against Diddy Kong, Snake, Lucario, Falco, Pit........I have no answers. I even lost to a Samus the other day, strictly because I couldn't approach to get the kill.

So how do you better players go about approaching? I love Zelda i'm probably one of the few Zelda's that Wop's with bairs, but the camping is making it very hard for me to enjoy her.

 

[GodAtHand]

I don't have the online experience. But you could try faking an approach then FW in either a lot or a little to mix it up.

 

[powuh_of_PIE]

If you can get the spacing right, dash attack can work sparingly if you throw it in unexpectedly. But with Zelda, approach is often less of an issue than you think; if they're camping, camp back with Din's spam until they approach, then punish as applicable. My personal punishing favorites are roll/spotdodge --> Dsmash, sliding Usmash, and grab --> Dthrow --> tech-chase.

EDIT: Also, just thought of this, FW mindgames can work if you don't use them too much: FW into the camper and watch him fly =)

 

[PK-ow!]

The only ones that could be a problem are Lucario and Olimar.

If the projectile is fast enough to interrupt Din's Fire, then it's fast enough to be deterred with Nayru's Love.
If it's a stronger move, you ought to throw Din's out anyway, since Din's can K.O. This includes traiding with Samus' missiles. It will hurt, but your fireball sucks a lot more for her than her missiles suck for you.
If it's Bike or Power Suit parts, they'll eventually run out. Be judicious with your shield.
Dedede's Waddle Dees are the most annoying. Outrange him. If you can't outrange him, then it's a cramped stage, and he can't use these guys safely anyway - that is, you should approach. I think Jab is good at stopping an incoming Waddle Dee. Use ftilt to clear out Waddle Doos, and Nayru's applies to a Gordo as well as any K.O. projectile. This means Walk, Don't Run (unless you're nimble with them Lightning Kicks).

Now, if someone knows how to counter Aura Sphere (actually, with any character :embarrass), I'm listening.

Olimar's Pikmin come off with nair, don't they? (Olimar is unrepresented in my games. )

 

[sniperworm]

What's PWG, I'm not familiar with that term?

Anyway, I'm going to assume that you're playing against characters you can't outcamp or there would be little need for you to approach (since the high knockback of Din's would eventually let you get into an advantageous position otherwise).

One approach I like is simply walking toward them. It's a more defensive way to approach. If they're camping you because they are at a high percentage, then they'll be antsy and probably make a move as you get close to them. If they run away, then you just keep approaching them and eventually you'll force a confrontation.

Oh yeah, Din's gliding is a dumb approach, I've been of this opinion for a long time.

 

[Villi]

If you're being camped super bad ONE long range Din's works occasionally. The hit box gets big enough that you can vary the timing of the explosing quite a bit depending on how they like to react to it. If they side-step, time it so the explosion hits their back after their side-step. You could explode it earlier than they'd expect, or just straight up hit their shield to push them off stage if they're camping near the edge. The trick is establishing a consistent Din's rhythm during the match which you can manipulate when you really need to get that hit. If you connect with one, you have your launch/a way to get in. Otherwise...

Going for the first hit isn't ever your only option. Instead of aproaching, try focusing on not getting hit and baiting something you can punish.

Put yourself in positions where you can punish them if they do a laggy attack, but they would be forced to approach to hit you. Get them into patterns that you know how to maneuvre around, but with which they might be unfamiliar and punish them if they move into a position to be punished.

For example: Get into a full hop, rising with a nair. They might be baited into doing a laggy attack which you can punish with a lightning kick. If they don't, bait fail, abort and keep yourself covered. Then mix in other things so that they don't predict and punish before you can act. When you've established enough ways to get around them that they just aren't going to fall for, and they're still not committing to any approaches, then maybe you can weasel yourself into fsmash range or approach with a grab or whatever committed approaches you've devised. Don't be impatient, rather unexpected.

 

[-Mars-]

The thing is, some of these guys know how to camp. I'm not just talking about throwing out random projectiles, I keep getting forced into bad situations. These guys know how to use their projectiles for setups. Even if i'm not getting hit, they still are putting me into positions that are advantageous for them and horrible for me.

Villi, you made some good points, i'm going to try full hopping a little more to see where it gets me and if I can somehow start baiting my opponents into something. I think maybe one of my main problems is being predictable, I need to start mixing it up a little bit more. Still just basic approaches with Zelda are few and far between and I feel like I always have to improvize, there is never anything guaranteed to work with her approaches.

 

[Sukai]

Play defensive.
Don't charge in until you see an opening and your average opponent will be foolish enough to give you one after a while.
If the distance is short enough, then Hyphen Smash.
Zelda's U smash has a disjointed hitbox, it can easily drag anyone into it, and it's powerful.
Or you could roll dodge near then and d smash then hug.
Plus if your playing defensively, you can reflect any projectile back at them with Naryu's sweet Love, that puts you at a good advantage.
If you got the balls, then Hyphen Smash, if not then spam Din's passionate Fire until they try to close in, then Hyphen Smash.
Remember, Defense is the best Offense.

And there is no problem with being predictable, as long as you have your game set.
Also be wise to remember that predictable does not always mean avoidable.

 

[powuh_of_PIE]

If your opponents are really dedicated to camping like no others, try switching to Sheik now and then. He's got a much faster projectile, not to mention decent approach options.

 

[M@v]

Hey marsulas. I have plenty of experience vs zeldas online. (I second zelda/sheik along with MK too). Spot dodge-dsmash rraaaappppeessss online with zelda. The input lag makes it near impossible to dodge. Dins fire spam works nicely too. A good thing to try is if you can't get anything going, switch to sheik and see if it helps. I usually start off as sheik, but switch to zelda for kills, and whenever sheik just isn't working for me.'

At allisbrawl, many people play gay ,spamming like no other, chaingrabbing, the works. A TON of mk players too; make sure you know the matchup. The spamming ones shouldn't be hard as long as you know how to deal with them. Heck, after I shut down their spam game, most of them practically fell apart. Din's fire come in handy. There are a lot of actually good players too. They know the matchups, be ready.

 

[Gothic Zelda]

I don't get camped. Mostly because Din's fire knocks sheilders off edges and gives me enough time to close the gap. When that doesn't work I farore's wind just out of they're range, then do it again, stand in place and making them think I'm aiming for them.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=161145

 

[-Mars-]

@knuxrouge- Zelda can not camp against the better characters, I don't care how good you think Dins Fire is, you can not camp with it.

@powuh of pie- Thank you for the input but if you read my first post I main Sheik, i'm just trying to find ways to approach with Zelda.......my Sheik is fine. Also, Sheik is a she not a he

@Mav- Believe me when I say, dins fire is not that great. It has it's uses and it's always nice when it connects but it doesn't allow you to always play defensive and it certainly doesn't combat the better campers

@ Sonic- I've seen that thread and read it, but it's mostly dealing with patience and the psychological aspect of camping. I'm not so much talking about camping as I am just general approach strategies with Zelda without being punished for it.

 

[Xebenkeck]

@knuxrouge- Zelda can not camp against the better characters, I don't care how good you think Dins Fire is, you can not camp with it.

@Mav- Believe me when I say, dins fire is not that great. It has it's uses and it's always nice when it connects but it doesn't allow you to always play defensive and it certainly doesn't combat the better campers

@ Sonic- I've seen that thread and read it, but it's mostly dealing with patience and the psychological aspect of camping. I'm not so much talking about camping as I am just general approach strategies with Zelda without being punished for it.

Don't camp in the essence of spamming a projectile, camp by just not moving and try to shield grab them or d/usmash them. Zelda is just as good of a camper as anyone else in the game, she is a defensive specialist. Plus dins fire can cancel most projects that are slower, wolfs blaster fireballs, pikmin, etc. just tap dins fire and not hold it.

Also a good approach for her isn't to attack, so many ppl fall for it if you just walk to them, theyll dodge or shield out of instinct, then you punish them for it.

If your real desperate for a approach and i mean real desperate, switch your c-stick to specials, and short hop and bstick backwards, and hold z to charge the shot. The effect a retreating dins fire.

 

[Sukai]

Marsulas, you don't main Zelda, so please don't comment of the effectiveness of an attack the most Zelda mains can effectively use.
Din's fire cannot camp very well, yes I get that, but use it to attack them. Even if you get hit with a projectile, Din's fire will still hit, it won't cancel out. Attack them, they will try to dodge it and move closer to you, thats when you hyphen smash.

See, here Din's passionate Fire is used to bait someone, and it works.

 

[M@v]

@knuxrouge- Zelda can not camp against the better characters, I don't care how good you think Dins Fire is, you can not camp with it.

@powuh of pie- Thank you for the input but if you read my first post I main Sheik, i'm just trying to find ways to approach with Zelda.......my Sheik is fine. Also, Sheik is a she not a he

@Mav- Believe me when I say, dins fire is not that great. It has it's uses and it's always nice when it connects but it doesn't allow you to always play defensive and it certainly doesn't combat the better campers

@ Sonic- I've seen that thread and read it, but it's mostly dealing with patience and the psychological aspect of camping. I'm not so much talking about camping as I am just general approach strategies with Zelda without being punished for it.

It all depends on the situation. Of course if you go spam happy, you will get punished. Like I said, most of the time I am sheik, since I prefer speed>power.

 

[Gothic Zelda]

I use din's fire for everything from recovery (When I'm knocked high of course) to offense and against campers. Also for mind games against people DIing at me. Detonate it right in front of me, they air dodge right into an usmash.

 

[M@v]

its definitely not a good idea to use it when recovering....after one shot your in free fall mode. Its best use is edgeguarding imo.

 

[Fenrir VII]

Marsulas, you don't main Zelda, so please don't comment of the effectiveness of an attack the most Zelda mains can effectively use.
Din's fire cannot camp very well, yes I get that, but use it to attack them. Even if you get hit with a projectile, Din's fire will still hit, it won't cancel out. Attack them, they will try to dodge it and move closer to you, thats when you hyphen smash.

See, here Din's passionate Fire is used to bait someone, and it works.

"Mains: Sheik/Zelda"

Don't be condescending, now... especially when you're incorrect. He mains Zelda and sheik...therefore, he should know about din's fire. xD

Din's fire is a useful attack, but when your opponent learns how to press R, and can still camp you, things get a bit sticky... and before you come down on me, Zelda is my 2nd...No, I'm not a main, but that does not instantly disqualify me from knowing about her.

Din's fire is a pretty great zoning attack... but not just a camp fest projectile

The problem with then using nayru's love is that a pro camper will be able to shoot, and then avoid his own shots...or they won't reflect the entire way back. Think of Falco. Falco can SH single laser low... then SH over it again. Yes, this is a bit technical, but it's quite possible...even as he's moving toward you... not to even mention cooldown on the move.

So there are situations where Zelda can be camped quite effectively by characters like Falco, Fox, Pit, Lucario, even DDD, and a few others.

Now, if they are shamelessly camping you, odds are you will have to make some sort of approach. you just have to be careful with it.
Generally, with shields, it's not terrible to get close to them. Walk forward, or run forward, and just make your ground slowly...and you can get up cose to them without taking too much damage.

But this is where they have an advantage. Typically, they go into shield, which counters most of what you have...and if they dodge, you could be left open.
A Nair is quite good for this situation, as it will hit a spot dodge, and you can land behind the shield...
Don't be afraid to grabn, either.. if they spot dodge, call it out and attack it.

Another thing that really isn't that bad is power shield usmash against most of the campers. you say you're getting grabbed because of the shield...the usmash should stop that, mostly.

I basically try to get within a longish short range...and then use the moves that are applicable, such as fsmash or even Jab, to stop a further approach, and a toe if they try to jump approach you.

Of course, these are all situational, but I'm just giving my two-cents. : )

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

"Mains: Sheik/Zelda"

it's a shame they don't have a Zelda/Sheik icon so we need to chose with which character we are more compitent

 

[Sukai]

Fenrir, I wasn't trying to come off condescending, thats the last thing I want to be.
But in his last post in page 1, he says he mains Sheik, but is trying to find a decent Zelda approach.
I was never suggesting that he tries to camp with Din's fire.
I was suggesting that he plays defensively and bait them with Din's Fire.

 

[Brinzy]

If it's a stronger move, you ought to throw Din's out anyway, since Din's can K.O. This includes traiding with Samus' missiles. It will hurt, but your fireball sucks a lot more for her than her missiles suck for you.

Reflect the fast ones. They go even faster.

As it has already been said, bait and punish. There is really nobody in the game that completely shuts down her approach. It is possible, however, for her to be left with only two (good) options - shielding and spot-dodging. After the posts you've seen, you've probably got your answers for each of those situations.

 

[-Mars-]

Fenrir made a good post, good players know how to easily deal with dins....short hop airdodge. It's really not that hard to avoid Dins while still throwing out their projectiles and such, against some characters trading hits with Dins isn't even an option because they can simply avoid dins while still camping. Dins fire most times is not going to bait anyone, especially the better part of the cast....thought I made this clear earlier in the thread. Hell, in theory even an Ike or a Bowser could just SHAD the entire time without having to approach.

I never thought about simply shield dashing into an upsmash, I guess i'm just going to have to get better at reading my opponents.

Fenrir, I didn't know you seconded Zelda, you should contribute a little more over here

As for Knuxy Wuxy dins fire isn't going to bait most characters. I've been playing Zelda since the day Brawl came out, so please don't tell me things that I know are wrong. My defensive game is fine with Zelda, it's just that a lot of times Zelda is forced to approach and has to be the one playing aggressive.

edit: oh yah, one more thing..........don't ever tell me what to do. You making assumptions about my game is laughable. That's just like me saying "you don't main Zelda, so please don't argue with me who has more Zelda knowledge because I am a Zelda main". For all I know(from the looks of it), you don't main Zelda either.

 

[Fenrir VII]

Fenrir, I didn't know you seconded Zelda, you should contribute a little more over here

haha well, it's a mix of not having anything to contribute, really, and not wanting to deal with idiots on yet another board. >.>

but yeah, I second Zelda... and Diddy for some random reason. haha

 

[-Mars-]

haha well, it's a mix of not having anything to contribute, really, and not wanting to deal with idiots on yet another board. >.>

but yeah, I second Zelda... and Diddy for some random reason. haha

Lol, ya I know what you mean

 

[Luthien]

Sorry if I seem harsh here, I'm just posting it how I see it.

Fenrir, I wasn't trying to come off condescending, thats the last thing I want to be.
But in his last post in page 1, he says he mains Sheik, but is trying to find a decent Zelda approach.

Yes, but you're forgetting what he's asking. Marsulas was saying that playing defensive as Zelda isn't working for him because his opponents are camping and he needs to finish them off with Zelda's mad KO skills. Your response: play defensive. He had just said in his first post that that isn't working.

Din's Fire does not force approaches. It is easy to avoid and only an impatient/bad opponent will rush in after you've shot off a few (dozen). Many of the better ones can even trick you into leaving yourself open (i.e. Rykoshet). I think it's been made clear that Marsulas isn't fighting the kind of opponents that Dins Fire can work on, and you're Din's->U-smash->d-smash and Roll with a touch of Nayru's strategy isn't much more viable either.

First of all, Dins doesn't trade with a lot of projectiles. It's not horrible, but if your opponent has brains and uses their projectiles to force you into bad positions they can either put you in a place where Din's is a BAD idea or they'll be able to get a projectile on you and shield in time to stop your fireball. And as for Din's KO potential, it has very little unless your opponent is recovering from high up, where good ones like Marsulas says he's playing are not likely to be spamming projectiles.

They're also not likely to be spacing in places where Nayru will be effective against them either. From what I read, Marsulas' opponents know how to use their projectiles properly instead of spamming them thoughtlessly, and will probably be out of range of the reflected projectile or in a position where the projectile will miss and they can punish NL's afterlag.

Against a good opponent, you will be punished for the 5-move strategy you suggested. Hard. And I'm just talking about the wifi experience here, imagine a situation where your opponent can powershield/airdodge/move/do anything reliably. Your Dsmash and Usmash will be shielded, you will be left open, and you've just left yourself open for an attack to the face. :[

If you'd like some expamples, Rykoshet always shields both of these attacks when I use them and depending on whether or not I'm in front or behind him he'll either SHBair or grab/jab/anything else Ike does. RyokoYaksa's Zelda made a habit of shielding and Sweetspot Bairing me. And I'm lucky: I have had few experiences against Spacies/Snake/MK who I'm sure could do even worse.

Marsulas wants approaches because being camped while using a defensive strategy is killing him. I have no ideas for him, but I do know yours won't work against the people he's fighting.

 

[Sukai]

As for Knuxy Wuxy dins fire isn't going to bait most characters. I've been playing Zelda since the day Brawl came out, so please don't tell me things that I know are wrong. My defensive game is fine with Zelda, it's just that a lot of times Zelda is forced to approach and has to be the one playing aggressive.

sigh... Fine then, oh well.

edit: oh yah, one more thing..........don't ever tell me what to do. You making assumptions about my game is laughable. That's just like me saying "you don't main Zelda, so please don't argue with me who has more Zelda knowledge because I am a Zelda main". For all I know(from the looks of it), you don't main Zelda either.

Ha ha ha, chill out on the *****y.
I never once told you what to do, nor did I assume your "game".
I'm trying to make suggestions to help you, like everyone else here.
Like I said, I'm not trying to come off condescending. Thats the last thing I want to do here.
I do main Zelda. I just never edited it into my sig and info.
Zelda is as a matter of fact my priority main, then Pit, then Fox, then Ike, and finally ZSS. The reason I though you didn't main Zelda was because of this:

@powuh of pie- Thank you for the input but if you read my first post I main Sheik, i'm just trying to find ways to approach with Zelda.

So, sorry for going off what I read to make a claim.
Plus if your defensive game cannot prevent you from being camped, then you need to re-adjust it.
You seem to turn down any bit of advice that is given, maybe Zelda isn't the person you should be going about it with, your Sheik should handle them.
Try to get close, roll dodge, but not too close, just enough to threaten their trust in the distance, then play defensive, counter-wise. Sheild grab, u smash (which has a disjointed hit box for Zelda), do what you can.
It seems that if you can avoid the combo, you won't be camped, because you said they set you up for being camped. So look to avoid the combo itself, instead of the camping.
DIing will help too, not that I'm saying you don't do it.
This just seems like the only approach I can think of to solve your problem.
If you haven't tried it out, then please try it out.
I'm making a suggestion, not telling you what to do by the way, you seem sensitive on that matter, so I have to clarify.
if that doesn't work, then **** it, launch a full front offensive, use your quickest attacks, side step dodge when needed, down smash to counter, hyphen smash like crazy. Just go for broke.

 

[Luthien]

Some interesting ideas could be DPC-Fsmash and DPC-reverse grab techniques.

If you're opponents are constantly shielding your approaches, Dash Pivot Cancelling into an Fsmash is surprisingly useful, especially on wifi. When the first four hits or so make contact with the shield, they'll either release the shield thinking the move has ended (hitstun can be a good thing) or they'll keep the shield up and be pushed back a bit. Either way you're pretty safe depending on the matchup. The move actually making contact is rare past the first time you land it, but it's one more option to switch things up and wifi actually sometimes helps you land this move.

If your opponent is spot-dodge happy, try running behind them and reverse-grabbing them to punish. Of course, only you can know when it's going to be safe to execute this, so once you see a pattern in your opponent's defensive game surprise them with this little goodie.

Not much, sure, but switching these up with your normal approaches can make quite a difference.

Edit @ Knuxrouge: So you're saying either swithc back to Sheik, don't get hit or just run in and usmash and hope it works?

Look, I'm pretty sure there's a reason Marsulas has switched to Zelda during the match. It probably means that his opponents are ready to be KO'd and Zelda does a really good job of finishing opponents off. He just wants some advice for approaching because waiting for the opponent to come to him isn't working any more.

Zelda has a poor approach game. We know this. While playing her, you have to be even trickier with your approaches than your opponent, not more predictable than they are. Marsulas wants options, and he isn't shutting down every idea he sees because he doesn't like them, he's saying they won't work because, fancy that, they probably won't. Your Din's-till-they-come-to-you just happened to be at the top of the list (perhaps because the Zelda community has already established just how effective the move really is.)

 

[-Mars-]

Some interesting ideas could be DPC-Fsmash and DPC-reverse grab techniques.

If you're opponents are constantly shielding your approaches, Dash Pivot Cancelling into an Fsmash is surprisingly useful, especially on wifi. When the first four hits or so make contact with the shield, they'll either release the shield thinking the move has ended (hitstun can be a good thing) or they'll keep the shield up and be pushed back a bit. Either way you're pretty safe depending on the matchup. The move actually making contact is rare past the first time you land it, but it's one more option to switch things up and wifi actually sometimes helps you land this move.

If your opponent is spot-dodge happy, try running behind them and reverse-grabbing them to punish. Of course, only you can know when it's going to be safe to execute this, so once you see a pattern in your opponent's defensive game surprise them with this little goodie.

Not much, sure, but switching these up with your normal approaches can make quite a difference.

Edit @ Knuxrouge: So you're saying either swithc back to Sheik, don't get hit or just run in and usmash and hope it works?

Look, I'm pretty sure there's a reason Marsulas has switched to Zelda during the match. It probably means that his opponents are ready to be KO'd and Zelda does a really good job of finishing opponents off. He just wants some advice for approaching because waiting for the opponent to come to him isn't working any more.

Zelda has a poor approach game. We know this. While playing her, you have to be even trickier with your approaches than your opponent, not more predictable than they are. Marsulas wants options, and he isn't shutting down every idea he sees because he doesn't like them, he's saying they won't work because, fancy that, they probably won't. Your Din's-till-they-come-to-you just happened to be at the top of the list (perhaps because the Zelda community has already established just how effective the move really is.)

Interesting, good, helpful post, i'm going to have to try some of these things out. SO your saying the DPC fsmash leaves you fairly safe most of the time?

Exactly, i'm not trying to be rude and just throw away your tips, they just simply won't work. I'm not asking for help and then criticizing veryone that tries, i'm just simply telling you that it's not effective.

 

[Luthien]

SO your saying the DPC fsmash leaves you fairly safe most of the time?

I'm pretty sure. On my online experience I have yet to be punished by it, but then I don't have the offline experience to say it's as reliable offline, and my online experience is mostly against half a dozen characters out of the entire roster most of the time, but I'm guessing you'll be safe. It also depends on the execution of the move, depending on how you DPC Zelda slides backwards more or less, changing how safe you are when you use the technique.

If this isn't the case, please let me know.

 

[M@v]

it's a shame they don't have a Zelda/Sheik icon so we need to chose with which character we are more compitent

allisbrawl does ^_^.

And Fenrir you second Zelda too? cool. For me its fox then MK then Sheik/Zelda.
But its going to be Fox, then Zelda/sheik, then Lucario sooner of later, for reasons that should be obvious

 

[Villi]

If your opponent is spot-dodge happy, try running behind them and reverse-grabbing them to punish. Of course, only you can know when it's going to be safe to execute this, so once you see a pattern in your opponent's defensive game surprise them with this little goodie

If you've got the balls to run behind someone as Zelda. o.o Might as well short hop a bair and make it worth your while.

 

[Luthien]

If you've got the balls to run behind someone as Zelda. o.o Might as well short hop a bair and make it worth your while.

True.

Granted, I learned this technique in the Ike boards, so if the slow dash speed is the issue you're addressing I think Ike's even slower than she is (and I've seen this technique work in videos from that board).

And you're going to want to be VERY sure your opponent is planning on spotdodging before trying this. x_x

 

[-Mars-]

I'm pretty sure Zelda has the second to last run speed in Brawl

 

[Sukai]

Ganondorf is still the slowest, so...yeah.

I see what you all mean. I'm not too active in the Character Communities, mainly because I find my own methods and techniques to stretch back on.
Aside from ATs its all original from me, or atleast I think it is.
Don't know if some of my ideas have been made official by fluke or obvious reasoning...
Din's fire works for me when it comes down to baiting, especially for a character without a projectile or a character who is airbourne. Its really good if you just tap the special button, and it will release right in front of her, scaring charging opponent, if they sidestep or roll dodge behind you, the d smash, if they roll dodge back, then, I don't know, take it from there.
On enemies in the air it works too, they will air dodge Din's Fire, leaving them open enough for punishing, like with an u smash.
But against campers...
Hm, I don't face alot of campers so my solutions are all conjecture, sorry.
But I do know how to go from a defensive Zelda to an offensive one almost flowingly.

But I still think my last suggestion should still be taken into consideration

It seems that if you can avoid the combo, you won't be camped, because you said they set you up for being camped. So look to avoid the combo itself, instead of the camping.
DIing will help too, not that I'm saying you don't do it.
This just seems like the only approach I can think of to solve your problem.
If you haven't tried it out, then please try it out.

 

[Darkmusician]

I can give you advice on approaching, but I'd rather be more specific with you than just give general advice that everyone has heard a hundred times. Playing against me on wifi would probably be the fastest way since we're talking about online play anyway.

 

[SwastikaPyle]

I'm pretty sure Zelda has the second to last run speed in Brawl

Not to mention her grab speed is balls to the wall slow as well.

If he's constantly spot dodging, a sliding upsmash is your best option. After two or three of these, it will probably irritate him to the point of avoiding it altogether.

 

[-Mars-]

I can give you advice on approaching, but I'd rather be more specific with you than just give general advice that everyone has heard a hundred times. Playing against me on wifi would probably be the fastest way since we're talking about online play anyway.

Sure that'd be great, what time do you think you'd be available?

 

[Darkmusician]

Sure that'd be great, what time do you think you'd be available?

I think the earliest I'd be available is Sunday afternoon. If you have AIM we can communicate there.

 

[-Mars-]

I think the earliest I'd be available is Sunday afternoon. If you have AIM we can communicate there.

Sure that would be good for me as well, I don't have aim but maybe we could communicate through allisbrawl or something?