• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

My Comeback, thoughts, and analysis of Samus and the Metagame

HugS™

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 23, 2009
Messages
1,486
Location
DBR
Ok so I'm about to go back to school tomorrow and instead of getting good rest I'm writing on the Samus boards, but for good reason.

So as some of you have heard, I'm returning to Melee. I haven't quit Brawl, but I'm most definitely focusing completely on my Melee game atm.

I had 3 questions when I decided to come back. And they were:

1. Am I capable of handling the current metagame?
2. Is Samus capable of handling the current metagame?
3. Can I become better than I ever was?


Through my observations and experiences, I answered all three questions with a resounding "yes".

I'll address each question in depth here:

1.Not to brag, but there are styles that are truly timeless in this game, and I was fortunate enough to have created one of them. For every new strategy that someone threw at me, I answered back. Perhaps not as quickly as desired due to my inability to play as fluently as I used to but, I certainly know I could deal with everything new.

2. Samus lived up to what I felt all along. Samus is fully capable of delivering an answer to everything she is dealt. This game is beautiful in that respect, and Samus is a character representative of that beauty. Sure, people now wiggle out of upB's a lot, have crazy angles to recover with, developed anti shield pressure strategies, but no matter. There were solutions to all these problems, and I will explain some at the end of this.

3. I can certainly become better than I was under the following condition:
- I continue caring about getting better

So far, so good.
And there are 2 big reasons for why I feel this way.
- I always had notions of ways to improve my game, even while I was in my prime. However, the metagame never called for it. I was a product of the community, and it functioned like an economy would; If there was no demand for improvement, I wouldn't supply it. Similarily, improvement is now demanded of me, so I supply it.

- My long break allowed me to part with bad habits. Because I have been "re-virginized" to melee, I am starting from scratch, fresh, uninfluenced by anything but my own thoughts. On top of that, I have my experience to build on, so I could skip much experimentation and dead ends.

________________________________________

New/Relived Tricks and Strategies

Now on to the fun stuff. My ideas on how to improve myself, including strategic analysis and brand new tactics:

I'll start with the new tricks. If you already do these things, don't bother posting about how you've been doing it "forever". I have never seen these tricks done by a Samus in tournament, and if it has been done, you haven't been successful enough with her to claim any kind of superiority over anyone, especially me. So be happy you discovered it, but keep it to yourself please. You can brag, but don't be condescending about it. :)

Trick #1
Canceling reflected missiles to punish.
How it works: Basically, Samus's best approach method involves missile canceling in order to zone in on your opponent. There need not always be a follow up, but you usually end up closing in.

When fighting a falco/fox, the 2 most popular characters in the metagame, reflectors essentially nullify our main approach. But then, by accident, I found a solution to this problem.

You can missile cancel, dash forward, then dash attack the reflected missile. There's not much novelty to that, it's been known by some people here and there. BUT, the best tricks are the most practical, and this has a practicality to it.

When you cancel the reflected missile with a dash attack, you are immediately free to do what you'd like, and when fox/falco reflect a missile, they are in reflection stun. They cannot shield, sidestep, or even jump cancel their shine. You are completely free to dsmash/dtilt/ftilt/and fsmash. There are properties of the shine that i'm not too sure of, but I hypothesized the following:

- There are 2 modes for shining. Reflection mode and offensive mode. When neutral, as in nothing hits the shine, both modes can be jump canceled immediately. But when a reflection occurs immediately after spacies are able to reflect, Fox/falco are stuck in reflect mode which causes tons of lag.

However, if a shine is allowed to be out for a while, it enters offensive mode, where even after a reflection the spacie is able to jump out quickly.

Naturally, you enter offensive mode the moment you shine as an attack. But if not, you enter this mode sometime after you have the shine out for a while.


That was a whole hypothesis based on observation. I invite anyone to test it and prove it wrong or right.

Trick #2

A character cannot tech/recover after tumbling to the ground after an upB before you can punish him.

Basically, if you up B a character and it doesn't break out in time and manages to hit the floor, you can punish after your up B lag with your quickest moves below 7 frames of start up time. That includes dsmash, dtilt, ftilt, upB, and a few others.

That ALSO means that if you upB a character above one of the lower platforms and you see he won't break out, feel free to land ON TOP of the platform and punish, rather than trying to land below the platform to be safe. Keep in mind, the lower platforms are closest to the ledge, so it brings about edgeguard opportunities.

Also, keep in mind that you need not attack a character from the ground with your upB. You can intercept them from the air, making it harder for them to break out, and giving this a higher chance to succeed.

Once again, test test test!

General Strategy Improvements


1. Dtilt > Dsmash

I've learned to try and discontinue my use of Dsmash as punishment at low percentages. Dsmash is the quickest smash attack, and it is definitely strong. However, good DI prevents most follow ups.
Dtilt is EXACTLY as fast as dsmash, frame for frame, and it deals similar damage with the added ability to follow up. There's absolutely no reason to use Dsmash instead of Dtilt other than an inability to do so.

So I'm learning; Marth fsmashes my shield at low %, I wavedash out to dtilt.
Fox usmashes my shield, wavedash out to dtilt. Etc etc.

2. Shield Dash Spacing Calibration

This is something I've always done but wasn't exactly aware of until the need came for me to actually think about using it again.
It's a bit complicated, but bare with me.

Basically, you dash dance, but you shield in between to calibrate your spacing...

This game is fast, it's F***ING fast, so it is simply unwise to stand still and react in order to space properly. And it's too easy to approach a still opponent with all the offensive options given to us in this game.


Dash dancing solves this problem, but really, dash dancing is meant for characters with fast falling abilities and great short hopping games. Samus/peach/jiggs don't really have that. So peach spaces by floating, and jiggs spaces by WOPing and multi jumping. So what does Samus do?

She shield dashes.

What that means is while I'm dash dancing, the moment an approach is coming from my opponent, I shield to stop myself at the appropriate distance. Afterwords, it's a matter of choosing wavedashing/jumping out/sidestepping/holding shield/upBing whatever.

The point is, I'm spaced properly all while constantly moving to make it Harder for my opponent to space correctly himself.
I cannot stress enough how important it is to be constantly moving when playing the zoning/defensive game.

And for more advantageous dash spacing, you can also cancel the end of dashes by crouching instead of shielding to do an immediate "A" attack. Keep in mind though, you cannot crouch cancel the dash animation, so you must wait to be able to crouch. So use both appropriately for proper spacing.

Of all things i've written here, that's my most vital advice, as I see improper spacing as being the biggest problem for samus mains, and proper spacing being one of my best traits. This is one of the ways I do it.

______________________________________________________________

If you've read all of this, congrats, you've managed to learn something new with Samus, and are on your way to bringing her to levels she deserves to be at.

So that's my conclusion to this essay, you've all read enough :)
 

V3ctorMan

Smash Champion
Joined
Jun 25, 2006
Messages
2,261
Location
Sierra Vista AZ
1st.. HugS you're absolutely amazing =p. Yeah you don know me, but ^^: I like your Samus alot, Welcome back hero! <3
 

'Fro

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 23, 2007
Messages
1,340
Ah, the return of the man who inspired a whole generation of the so-called "campy" Samus! You've always been my main inspiration, Hugs. I didn't have much belief in Samus's potential before seeing you play. I had always pictured her being my stop-gap character, but you always gave me reasons to believe I should stick with her, and so far I haven't regretted that choice! Thank you, Hugs!
 
Joined
Feb 3, 2008
Messages
858
Location
PWN
1. Am I capable of handling the current metagame?
2. Is Samus capable of handling the current metagame?
3. Can I become better than I ever was?


Through my observations and experiences, I answered all three questions with a resounding "yes".
Yessssssss.

I always had notions of ways to improve my game, even while I was in my prime. However, the metagame never called for it. I was a product of the community, and it functioned like an economy would; If there was no demand for improvement, I wouldn't supply it. Similarily, improvement is now demanded of me, so I supply it.
I've actually been thinking about a similar topic, not for my own playstyle, but in regards to the top players of the time. After watching Genesis matches and then thinking back to MLG, it's quite interesting. And it's great how it's still commendable for, say, Ken, to be at the top when he was, vs. now; it's almost two different games with the time gap.

So...

Trick #2 - I'll have to experiment with that more.

Shield dashing - You've been doing this since like late '06, right? At least started using and perfecting the move since early '06? I have, I'll admit, stolen this technique from you and have found it to be a useful tactic.

Thanks for the tips HugS.
 

ihavespaceblondes

Smash Master
Joined
Nov 29, 2005
Messages
4,229
Location
Memphis, TN
Trick #2... I can't remember the last time someone I actually had trouble with didn't DI out of the upB or shake out of stun before hitting the ground. Other than that great stuff. To be honest your assertion that Samus is good enough to handle the current metagame does the most for me, I'd been having my doubts about that lately. Can't wait to see some new vids.
 

HugS™

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 23, 2009
Messages
1,486
Location
DBR
LoL he knows the matchup, he's just messing around.
I'd say the same thing about Zhu if he was making a comeback after a break. The kid's dangerous.

Trick #2... I can't remember the last time someone I actually had trouble with didn't DI out of the upB or shake out of stun before hitting the ground. Other than that great stuff. To be honest your assertion that Samus is good enough to handle the current metagame does the most for me, I'd been having my doubts about that lately. Can't wait to see some new vids.
By ground i meant any surface you could stand on, that includes platforms. And it's less likely they'll be able to break out before reaching platform height everytime...

And like I said, this is especially true after intercepting them in mid air. I rarely, if ever, see anyone break out of that one.
 

TheZhuKeeper

Smash Champion
Joined
Jul 2, 2007
Messages
2,908
Location
Philadelphia, PA
Before we mm'd at genesis he told me he hated the matchup, though, and I think he could/should learn to like it.
mmm I have enough experience with it, it's just I don't enjoy it too much. That and I was exhausted after playing so many matches and really didn't feel like playing, but since you were so insistent...
 

ihavespaceblondes

Smash Master
Joined
Nov 29, 2005
Messages
4,229
Location
Memphis, TN
mmm I have enough experience with it, it's just I don't enjoy it too much. That and I was exhausted after playing so many matches and really didn't feel like playing, but since you were so insistent...
I'm sorry about that, and I'm sorry I was such a **** afterwards, I just thought you were trying to "oh I don't have any money on me" -> *vanish* like I've had some people do before... And I would have been fine with just friendlies, I just really wanted to play you and mms are the main way to force the issue with people. I got some games in with Shiz and I've played Chopz a lot, so I couldn't leave my first WC tourney without playing you.
 

Lovage

Smash Hero
Joined
Apr 15, 2007
Messages
6,746
Location
STANKONIA CA
hugs is back baby....

but really, this old timer (usually bringing DEHF and romeo) has been driving up to moorpark (1+ hour away) multiple times during the week for smashfests, i havn't seen him with this kind of fire for a looooong time. he's been practicing with SUPER TECHNICAL foxes and falcos, so we've had the opportunity to work him back into shape, and it's been so fun. hugs is getting more like his old self every time i play him, and it's very exciting.

about his "trick #1"
it's pretty good. i try to reflect hugs' missiles all day, and this is a good way to deal with it, as he can often punish my reflection with a dsmash/fsmash, it comes out of nowhere. there ARE ways around it (running back before you reflect so he can't dash attack the missile in time) but that isn't really the point. it's more about making the fox/falco second guess himself before auto-reflecting missile cancels, and overall makes samus a bit more scary during the neutral position.
 

Strong Badam

Super Elite
Administrator
Premium
BRoomer
Joined
Feb 27, 2008
Messages
26,545
uhh trick #1 doesn't work if they're not stupid and hold down B and jump after reflecting the missile.
 

Corigames

Smash Hero
Joined
Oct 20, 2006
Messages
5,817
Location
Tempe, AZ
"This game is fast, it's F***ING fast, so it is simply unwise to stand still and react in order to space properly. And it's too easy to approach a still opponent with all the offensive options given to us in this game."

I'm not sure if this was directed at me or anything, but I still stand that doing superfluous flashy things is much worse than just standing still as you can do anything from standing. Dash dancing is fine in this respect though, since it hardly limits you, but I would still argue for "lulz mindgamez" standing.

"So what does Samus do?"
Bomb bouncing? Maybe? Not really...

As for Samus rep... I wish I could. Fuicking life.

Which makes me ask, Hugs... what do you do for a living that allows you free time to play/practice smash?
 

rhan

Smash Hero
Joined
Aug 16, 2007
Messages
6,107
Location
SoVA 757
Dammit. HugS is back..... That's one more player in front of me being top 10 Samus'.
 

Lovage

Smash Hero
Joined
Apr 15, 2007
Messages
6,746
Location
STANKONIA CA
You would have to be pretty close for that to work, as a shine only stays in reflect stun for like maybe 1/3rd of a second.
"melee is fast, melee is F**cking fast" lol

nah but really, theory and all that aide, it actually does work as long as the fox isn't super far away (so it usually works)
 

HugS™

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 23, 2009
Messages
1,486
Location
DBR
You would have to be pretty close for that to work, as a shine only stays in reflect stun for like maybe 1/3rd of a second.

When you use missiles to facilitate your approach, then you should be nearby when he reflects it.

If you are far away when he reflects your missile, then who cares, you just avoid it. The point is, your intention to approach by missiles is no longer trumped by shining.
 

Pi

Smash Hero
Joined
Feb 5, 2008
Messages
6,038
Location
Lake Mary, Florida
What if they hit it with something else high priority, like dair or bair? Or is that irrelevant?
think the point was to avoid reflected missiles
If they're attacking the missile they're still vulnerable, juss not as much as with shine I think
and you don't have to worry about a reflected missile
 
Joined
Feb 3, 2008
Messages
858
Location
PWN
We should be able to missile cancel and then grapple to grab onto the missile.

Just sayin'
and either jump and go flying with it or stand and use our grapple to slingshot it around and any angle we want with more force
would be awesome
charged spinning super missile.
 

Watty

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 28, 2005
Messages
1,638
What if they hit it with something else high priority, like dair or bair? Or is that irrelevant?
u will be able to notice is for u to notice the shine and than dash attack it if they are doing another move run into a shield or run into a wd and go from there
 

iDoLiZeD

Smash Cadet
Joined
Aug 29, 2008
Messages
59
Location
極光
Glad to see you back HugS!
I admire you as a player, you even got me hooked on Samus!
Honestly, you truly have what it takes to come back for sure.
I think it is safe to say you are a Smash veteran and you could easily reach the top of today.
There hasn't been anything like your style of play lately, I'm sure it will take everyone by a surprise!



Good luck to ya, and see you at the top!





-iDoLiZeD
 

Mars-

Smash Champion
Joined
Jun 15, 2006
Messages
2,530
Location
Chicago area
Wait weren't samus players supposed to know about the shine lag and downair when they shine?

I will believe you are back when I see it.
 

rayecho

Smash Ace
Joined
Feb 21, 2007
Messages
668
Location
Hayward
Wait weren't samus players supposed to know about the shine lag and downair when they shine?

I will believe you are back when I see it.
I think a lot of samus players know that, but that isnt what hugs is talking about.
 

soap

Smash Hero
Joined
Jan 24, 2006
Messages
7,229
Location
Cleveland, Ohio
super old vid of ken's fox v. wes. (im pretty sure it was that impersonated voices one)

wes shoots missile, ken reflects, wes jumps over it and dairs

i've jus been doing that everytime.

other options are good though.

funny essay, i like hugs writing style
 
Top Bottom